Maokai can only ulti for 12 seconds preventing him to abuse mana

KONO RUBICK DA··6 votes·863 views

Meanwhile Swain

19 Comments

IcyPepper8 votes

A champion has a single characteristic in one of their abilities disregarding whatever else it does.

Meanwhile other champion that has other abilities, functions, and roles in a team composition.

KONO RUBICK DA2 votes

{quoted}

A champion has a single characteristic in one of their abilities disregarding whatever else it does.

Meanwhile other champion that has other abilities, functions, and roles in a team composition.

Yes? maokai has damage reduction swain has heal

maokai was reducing damage for too much time--> put a time cap swain can heal for too much time--->nothing happens

redniwediS3 votes

Maokai is primarily a tank, and has CC and damage reduction.

Swain is a short range mage, and has CC and damage.

What's your point? They are still two different champions who fill two different roles in two different ways.

WoonStruck2 votes

effectively infinite damage reduction for his team was a problem, so they gave him a limit. And increased CD.

On Swain, effectively infinite healing with a very low recast CD as well is a problem.

Why not give Swain a limit and a longer CD?

If he's a problem, he's a problem and needs to be addressed. Are you saying he shouldn't be addressed for some reason?

MisterHealYoGirl3 votes

cough item 3123 cough

Also, Maokai's mana consumption is nowhere NEAR Swain's. Swain's ult uses mana faster than Maokai's after one second of use; it outstrips the startup mana in a smidge over three. If Swain and Maokai both use their ults for 10 seconds (the max duration of Maokai's), Swain uses 500 mana, while Maokai uses 340. If Swain keeps ulting, the next four seconds will use more mana on their own than all of Maokai's.

KONO RUBICK DA2 votes

doesn't prevent him from ultying for a minute with item 3027 +item 3174

WoonStruck2 votes

Precisely this. Swain rarely needs his ult for more than 10 seconds.

The mana cost is relatively moot with the exception of spamming ult in lane for whatever silly reason bad Swain players use as an excuse.

Abyssphere2 votes

If he rarely needs it for more than ten seconds then why nerf the duration at all?

Abyssphere1 votes

If he needs to buy Grail to ult infinitely then you can just be happy that he's bought a terrible item just for extended ult upkeep.

MisterHealYoGirl1 votes

Assuming that he has more health than mana for the entire duration, a fully stacked Rod of Ages and an Athene's Holy Grail on a level 18 Swain will allow him to ult for a little over twenty seconds. Adding in a fully stacked Seraph's Embrace extends this to about 26 seconds. If he gets a pentakill for his passive on top of that, he makes it all the way to thirty seconds.

KONO RUBICK DA1 votes

swain with only roa will ulti for 35 seconds, he has 1200 base mana at lvl 18, roa gives 400 mana, the formula of his ulti is on lol wiki.

means that with the roa passive and athene passive he will ulti for a minute

MisterHealYoGirl1 votes

Swain has 1573 mana with RoA at level 18. While he's ulting (assuming he's not using any other skills or something like that), the formula that gives his mana after X seconds. The formula for the amount of mana that his ult uses in X seconds is (25+5X)(.5X) His 'current mana' is 1573 (his full total) + 53.6X (his mana regen, augmented by Grail's passive and stats) - (25+5X)(.5X), which zeroes out after 34.6 seconds.

1573 + 53.6(34.6) - (25+5(34.6))(.5(34.6)) 1573 + 1854 - (198)(17.3) 3472 - 3425 ~ 0 (I rounded off a bunch of numbers, which is why it's not exact).

Abyssphere1 votes

He's saying that deciding that Swain is a problem should be independent of the history of other champions who are largely invalid comparisons for him. Nerfing Swain because he's a problem is good, nerfing him because he compares favourably to Maokai in a certain way isn't.

The ults aren't even similar so the comparison is stupid. One is a variable length one-shot ult and the other is a toggle. There aren't any toggle abilities with a time limit. Swain would have the only toggle that automatically turns off in the game with this change and that's the opposite of consistency across abilities.

KONO RUBICK DA1 votes

my point is that both ulti are abusable by building a lot of mana, yet one is restricted and the other can still ulti for a century.

maokai can't abuse roa's passive and become broken.

Wolfess1 votes

swain's ult is his main source of teamfight damage. His Q is mediocre at best, its main purpose is CC with a little damage thrown in. His main CC is his W as it roots in a ground aoe. E is a source of damage and debuff that boosts his overall damage on a single target. His ult is his main source of damage and sustain, it's what makes swain himself and his gameplay, a sustain mage and it has to be a toggle to control his mana usage.

Maokai is pretty much a full-on tank with a few exceptions where sometimes you can build him AP, like ARAM where those saplings hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrt. One of the reasons maokai can get away with being a tank and do damage is because his W does % max hp in magic damage, he has good cc, and passive healing that heals him for a % of his own max hp. Q has a decent amount of cc and a knockback. fairly low cd at later levels, can interrupt some abilities. W lets him dash to a target, roots them briefly and does % max hp magic damage, meaning this is still decently effective against tanks. E is a long range ground cast "mine/bomb" that targets a nearby target, priority champions, and has a slow. decent for zoning and slowing potential fleeing targets, pretty long cooldown and high mana cost early to prevent abuse. now his ult, which was the main issue. his ult, If I haven't forgotten any patches since I don't play maokai often, also grants the damage reduction effects to teammates in the aoe area, meaning he's also providing utility to his team with his ult and can negate a good chunk of damage with it which is why they gave it a timed limit since a maokai can just pop it on and initiate a dive while tanking tons of damage, plus his passive charges with any and all abilities acst within a range of him to heal him for... what was it 7% his max hp, so the more hp/tankiness he has, the better. maokai also has more CC then swain.

The two champs are also different roles and swain doesn't really do anything if you build him tanky like maokai since swain HAS to do damage to heal and has no gap-closers or ways to initiate other than perhaps landing an aoe ground-cast root as opposed to maokai's targeted root-dash. While liandrys could potentially allow swain to do damage while being tanky, it would require him to potentially be in ult for a long period of time to let the damage keep rolling, but then again if he's going tanky his role isn't really to do damage as much as it would be to interrupt the enemy team and make potential picks and get out alive, something he cannot do as well as mao can due to his kit.

tl;dr different roles, different kits, different purposes for both so not really a good idea to compare them just because they both have this duration-type ult mechanic as they're both meant to do different things.

KVbqbFsC8e1 votes

This would probably be a more valid and highly upvoted thread if Maokai weren't also broken.

Miraweave1 votes

Swain's ult duration is soft capped because the mana cost increases over time.

KONO RUBICK DA1 votes

same for old maokai then? even if the cost didn't increased for each seconds, there was still a time, it was just long.

BloodyTompon1 votes

Maokai has a dash. Meanwhile Swain.

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