Okay, stop saying Lux is OP when that's untrue. She's just got a favorable meta right now.

darkdill·Feb 20, 2016·15 votes·1,087 views

What counters Lux? Dive fighters, initiators, and assassins, all of which are scheduled to receive a facelift once we're done with the immobile mage update. At present, they aren't in-meta right now (besides assassins), which is why Lux is doing so well.

So instead of screaming for "NERF LUX", how about enduring her (or using one of your bans on her) until divers like Irelia get improved? She doesn't need any sort of nerf right now, especially when nerfing her will cause her to get dumpstered post-diver update.

Or you could pick Diana or Gragas into Lux. They pretty much destroy her.

@DownvoteSpammers: Thank you for proving my point by not thinking long and hard about it.

49 Comments

AHeroNamedHawkeFeb 20, 201611 votes

{quoted}

What counters Lux? Dive fighters, initiators, and assassins

Zed Leblanc Ahri Talon Next highest pick rates Malphite Currently the strongest and most played top laner along with Fiora LeeSin XinZhao MasterYi Elise Udyr All extremely popular

darkdillFeb 20, 20162 votes

All true. But other dive fighters are still looking to be updated soon. Once they are, I imagine Lux won't retain her winrate.

NarsicusFeb 20, 20161 votes

Dive fighters being updated soon doesn't change that many of them are extremely popular right now, as are many assassins.

So with them being many of the most prevalent opponents it seems strange that Lux is doing so well against her 'counters'. Either Lux is just strong enough that even her supposed counters aren't enough to keep her down or these are in fact not the things that effectively counter Lux.

Akali is SO HOTFeb 20, 20161 votes

What did that have to do with anything he just said?

AHeroNamedHawkeFeb 20, 20163 votes

{quoted}

All true. But other dive fighters are still looking to be updated soon. Once they are, I imagine Lux won't retain her winrate.

You mean when item 3053 gets nerfed, and Riot inevitably overbuffs AP items and/or their immobile mages? Because those are the next two updates, any look at fighters is a long way off

AmelieFeb 20, 20162 votes

Udyr/Xin/Fiora/etc don't LANE against her, but they will mess her up in teamfights or by ganking. In my experience, ganking just isn't occurring as much as it used to (or should). Also, half of the assassins you posted are skill matchups. Zed and several others in your list are seeing more bans, so Lux is even safer to pick.

I'm not sure what point you're making, are you saying they are specifically losing in games against Lux? Because my personal experience is that all of those champions absolutely ruin Lux games. Do you have access to stats where they are played but still heavily losing to Lux (not laning against her)?

AHeroNamedHawkeFeb 20, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Udyr/Xin/Fiora/etc don't LANE against her, but they will mess her up in teamfights or by ganking. In my experience, ganking just isn't occurring as much as it used to (or should). Also, half of the assassins you posted are skill matchups. Zed and several others in your list are seeing more bans, so Lux is even safer to pick.

I'm not sure what point you're making, are you saying they are specifically losing in games against Lux? Because my personal experience is that all of those champions absolutely ruin Lux games. Do you have access to stats where they are played but still heavily losing to Lux (not laning against her)?

The claim is that Lux is hard countered by such picks, and only strong because they aren't popular

But literally all of the listed classes are extremely popular, and she's still the most played mid laner in solo queue

SleepyLionCubFeb 20, 20167 votes

Lux isnt 100% ungoldy stupid broken right now. and doesnt deserve a complete gutting, with no chance of being good again.

inb4 downvotes.

CrossetteFeb 20, 20165 votes

Except every meta is favorable for Lux.

This is the godforsaken TANK meta and she's winning as a burst mage.

also assassins are the meta

PS: Gragas mid doesn't exist anymore and Diana IS an "assassin"

HandheldBrandonFeb 20, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Except every meta is favorable for Lux.

This is the godforsaken TANK meta and she's winning as a burst mage.

also assassins are the meta

PS: Gragas mid doesn't exist anymore and Diana IS an "assassin"

This is definitely not a tank meta this is a tanky fighter meta where champs like YI and Fiora and Xin build tanky and proceed to wreck all other champs.

ShonjlFeb 20, 20164 votes

Its easier for people to complain about her.

I myself have an easy time against Lux but god forbid you say such and you get yelled at as a Lux main or downvoted to hell.

They will cry until she gets nerfed which I doubt will happened since anyone with a brain knows she isn't broken. Or into assassins get a little fixed up, which they are and watch the very people probably will ask for buffs lol.

weeaboomerFeb 20, 20164 votes

{quoted}

anyone with a brain knows

That her E is the definition of brain dead that rewards the lux player for 0 fucking reason while being extremely fucking safe to use.

ShonjlFeb 20, 20163 votes

Please, E isn't killing you and you know it. Is it safe? Sure, but there is like 10 different champs that safely poke so what else is new? LB, Zed, Fizz, Xerath, Chogath, VelKoz, Morgana, Ziggs, Brand, Malz are literally just a few that I could think of in seconds.

And unlike a lot of them, her's doesn't do a lot of damage,

JefftiffyFeb 20, 20165 votes

{quoted}

Its easier for people to complain about her.

I myself have an easy time against Lux but god forbid you say such and you get yelled at as a Lux main or downvoted to hell.

They will cry until she gets nerfed which I doubt will happened since anyone with a brain knows she isn't broken. Or into assassins get a little fixed up, which they are and watch the very people probably will ask for buffs lol.

I'm sorry, but I have nothing against Lux's damage. I have something against how easy it is to get off and the potential damage cap of it with relatively low CD.

No one should be able to cast a spell that can only be missed when aimed properly against someone like Udyr or with LeeSin level mobility. And to top it off her burst on single target alone is over 2.5k and its on a 30s CS endgame. Balanced? Maybe, but its also an entire AoE kit and she doesn't have any exploitable weak period unless you have a bunch of super tanks. How to nerf Lux: ult CD now scales down to 75/60/45s and is no longer effected by CDR and her E is now 10% slower to land but has a mana cost that goes 70/80/90/100/110 (20 less mana at max rank) and no longer slows after detonated but still gives vision and can last for 5 -> 4s just to prevent the spam cast if it is left out for a long period of time. Passive: now 10+5*level.

Overall, a 54 damage nerf at lvl 18 with no changes to the scaling on AP. These changes would lower her poke damage just a little while also giving Lux more counter play to her kit for the exchange of lower costs on her E and an ult that can no longer be used 2 time while someone is dead late game.

She got extra damage from thunderlord's to spike her damage really hard and make her lose her early game weakness.

ShonjlFeb 20, 20161 votes

To be honest. You may have been the first and only person I ever heard that thinks Lux has issues but actually give REALISTIC and actually completely fair changes.

Take my upvote please.

But on another note. It seems a lot of what people complain about(that actually have a leg to stand on) is about her E. Make it move slower, problem solved then. Her ult seems tame since its easy to dodge if you aren't cced, but making its CD a little longer wouldn't be too insane. Also making her E cost less but be slightly weaker seems fair. I like this person.

SaltyKrackaFeb 20, 20164 votes

Or you could just admit that she's OP and has been for the last 5 months.

Saying shit about "it's just the meta" makes you look like a blind-ass fool.

AmelieFeb 20, 20163 votes

You are 100% correct. People are complaining about her because she is just strong in this current meta. Nerf her significantly and she will disappear from play (again). There is a REASON she kept receiving buffs/quality of life buffs.

Not to mention that right now the general playstyle is to be extra safe and not take too many risks (due to death timers, wet paper towers, etc). Of course Lux is going to excel at that. AND burst champions/styles are "in". AND the Thunderlord's mastery has helped her burst a lot.

But Hexdrinker/Maw, Abyssal Scepter, and Sterak's Gage make Lux's life incredibly difficult, and she has enough counterplay (and counterpicks) if you're smart enough.

weeaboomerFeb 20, 20164 votes

{quoted}

You are 100% correct. People are complaining about her because she is just strong in this current meta. Nerf her and she will disappear from play (again). There is a REASON she kept receiving buffs/quality of life buffs.

Not to mention that right now the general playstyle is to be extra safe and not take too many risks (due to death timers, wet paper towers, etc). AND burst champions/styles are "in". AND the Thunderlord's mastery has helped her burst a lot.

Hexdrinker, Abyssal Scepter, and Sterak's Gage make Lux's life incredibly difficult, and she has enough counterplay if you're smart enough.

The only nerfs I see that get upvoted on here are making her E less brain dead and adding more visibility to her spells.

AmelieFeb 20, 20161 votes

Her "brain dead" E is incredibly predictable, and it's her main/only harass. You want to take that away? Well, she isn't going to poke you down with her snare. There's literally nothing else to hit you with.

darkdillFeb 20, 20163 votes

Pretty much. If she's trying to poke with her Q, she's opening herself up to being dived on. Pretty much all Lux players will only use her Q reactively in lane, or if someone else sets her up. She'll only fish with it in siege scenarios, and only if she has a good amount of CDR.

AmelieFeb 20, 20161 votes

Exactly. It feels like people don't recognize her weak points at all.

(Also I'm sorry your thread is getting so downvoted.)

darkdillFeb 20, 20162 votes

I was expecting it. People can't stand the idea of Lux being anything but "invisible" (i.e. unused).

AHeroNamedHawkeFeb 20, 20165 votes

{quoted}

I was expecting it. People can't stand the idea of Lux being anything but "invisible" (i.e. unused).

You gonna ignore the contradictory evidence to your entire thread I just posted? It annoys me when people do that.

Sir YamazukiFeb 20, 20161 votes

{quoted} You are 100% correct. People are complaining about her because she is just strong in this current meta. Nerf her significantly and she will disappear from play (again). There is a REASON she kept receiving buffs/quality of life buffs.

Her pick rate was already at 10% before recieving buffs. 10% is pretty far above average.

AmelieFeb 20, 20161 votes

When, exactly? She's been receiving buffs over the course of years, and I'm pretty sure she hasn't had a 10% pick rate for years...

Shroom JunkieFeb 20, 20163 votes

Rengar, Talon, Zed... all totally not assassins and completely in-meta right now. Not to mention Diana is an assassin, even if a tanky as shit one. Not saying she's OP but she's really up there right now and feels super overloaded.

weeaboomerFeb 20, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Rengar, Talon, Zed... all totally not assassins and completely in-meta right now. Not to mention Diana is an assassin, even if a tanky as shit one. Not saying she's OP but she's really up there right now and feels super overloaded.

Just play her and look at her E.

darkdillFeb 20, 20162 votes

If you're referring to Lux, the damage on her E isn't nearly as strong as, say, Viktor's, and has a 130 mana cost, meaning Lux cannot exist without at least one mana regen item.

Sir YamazukiFeb 20, 20161 votes

{quoted}

If you're referring to Lux, the damage on her E isn't nearly as strong as, say, Viktor's, and has a 130 mana cost, meaning Lux cannot exist without at least one mana regen item.

His E at earlier ranks has a similar mana cost and even at max rank his is still over 100, 110. Their Q/W also have fairly similar mana costs, although in reality Viktor ends up using more mana due to lower cool downs. Lets stop pretending Lux is the only mage with mana costs similar to ultimates, it's actually not an uncommon thing. There's also the fact his E isn't as likely to land as Lux E. I build Zhonyas as a first item on Lux every game and never run into issues with mana unless I am constantly in combat, which mana is supposed to be a limiter anyways.

As for your "counter pick" examples, her win rate is over 50% against all of them, I don't think a champion that loses 53% of the time is really a good counter, now is it?

darkdillFeb 20, 20161 votes

It's not just Viktor; other Champions with similar AOE nukes deal more damage than Lux does if she doesn't proc Illumination (which requires risk).

Sir YamazukiFeb 20, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It's not just Viktor; other Champions with similar AOE nukes deal more damage than Lux does if she doesn't proc Illumination (which requires risk).

I don't remember mentioning damage anywhere in my post. In fact, I reread both posts and I see the topic being about mana and how she is 'required' to build mana regen.

ShonjlFeb 20, 20161 votes

Ok, they have similar mana cost, but you seem to miss the tiny detail that everything Viktor has hits like a truck. Get hit by his death laser? That is 1/4-1/2 your health gone? Lux? Her E tickles even early game as far as damage in concerned, its just a poke tool.

Of course his E isn't as likely to land, his E does ult levels of damage while Lux doesnt. Its a hard concept I know but usually weaker spells damage wise have benefits elsewhere(Do CC, easier to land) His is harder to land but hits extremely hard. Hers is easier to land and does a slow but is fairly average to weak damage wise.

And winrate isn't 100% perfect example since as you can see from the boards, to be blunt, people just aren't good and don't know how to fight lux clearly. Morgana I feel is the absolute ultimate counter to Lux since not only does she have a similar kit, skillwise as well as damagewise. She also counters a lot of Lux's kit and builds tanky. But by winrate Lux beats Morg. Just means not many people are good at Morg or can't understand Lux.

Sir YamazukiFeb 20, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Ok, they have similar mana cost, but you seem to miss the tiny detail that everything Viktor has hits like a truck. Get hit by his death laser? That is 1/4-1/2 your health gone? Lux? Her E tickles even early game as far as damage in concerned, its just a poke tool.

Of course his E isn't as likely to land, his E does ult levels of damage while Lux doesnt. Its a hard concept I know but usually weaker spells damage wise have benefits elsewhere(Do CC, easier to land) His is harder to land but hits extremely hard. Hers is easier to land and does a slow but is fairly average to weak damage wise.

And winrate isn't 100% perfect example since as you can see from the boards, to be blunt, people just aren't good and don't know how to fight lux clearly. Morgana I feel is the absolute ultimate counter to Lux since not only does she have a similar kit, skillwise as well as damagewise. She also counters a lot of Lux's kit and builds tanky. But by winrate Lux beats Morg. Just means not many people are good at Morg or can't understand Lux.

Lux is an old champion and has had an above average pick rate for multiple seasons, don't use the "people forgot how to play against an old and popular champion" as to why she's doing well.

You also completely ignore the fact Lux out ranges just about everything, expecting her to have better damage than shorter ranged mages while being more reliable and more utility focused is absurd.

Morg's win rate as a mid laner also isn't lower than Lux's, they are almost the same. It's only Morg's win rate as a support that is lower. Morg's win rate would be higher if she was as easy to play as Lux is. Morg has to put herself in danger and her shield requires more skill to properly utilize than Lux's shield. Morg is actually stronger than Lux when both are played competently, but mid lane Morg is at a 3% pick rate and hasn't been popular for years while Lux is currently at a near 19% pick rate and was at 9~11% before she was ever buffed.

Akali is SO HOTFeb 20, 20163 votes

{quoted}

What counters Lux? Dive fighters, initiators, and assassins

Zed Leblanc Ahri and Talon all have high pickrates Malphite and Fiora are extremely popular and are completely dominating at the moment Udyr is OP as balls right now and XinZhao just got a huge ass buff and is also really popular now.

Despite that she's had the highest winrate of all midlaners for the multiple patches in a row and all throughout Season 6 so far while having a really high pickrate. I think you might be missing something here.

Edit: lol got Shen'd so hard.

Or you could pick Gragas into Lux.

This isn't Season 3 anymore buddy

AmelieFeb 20, 20161 votes

Gragas STILL WORKS against Lux in lane. Yeah his damage pattern is a bit different than the old AP Gragas, but he does still work. So do all of the people you and some other guy posted (though some are skill matchups).

Udyr/Xin/Fiora/etc don't LANE against her, but they will mess her up in teamfights or by ganking. In my experience, ganking just isn't occurring as much as it used to (or should).

She has the highest win rate because she is SAFE and the meta favors safety (plus all of Riot's new materies and tower changes, among other things).

Cenobite AzazielFeb 20, 20163 votes

Lux is broken. She was buffed with no reason at all. Just to make her fotm. Assassins counter lux! Yeah. Zed, the energy base assassin that should own her ass because of mana consumption gets a 49% win rate vs her. Fizz has the same win rate. Talon get a closer win rate . 50.5%.

Probably because assassins don't counter lux (long harass range and a shield that refreshes) .

Lux punishes too hard from distance and if she makes the mistake of getting to close, just Q the b*tch, AA for thunderlord and shield for no damage at all. Oh, and your E harass will clear the wave too.

Just roll back the buffs. E width and the second Q snare q to 50% damage.

Aeolian MelodiesFeb 20, 20162 votes

Her E harass without passive proc isn't even worth until she gets a full mana regen item completed.

darkdillFeb 20, 20161 votes

This. Her E at ultra-long range doesn't compare to someone like Ziggs or Xerath. And if she wants to proc Illumination, she's gotta get into a range where the enemy can counterattack her.

weeaboomerFeb 20, 20161 votes

Did you state the same about Vayne during the tank meta?

ModAttysu The PoroFeb 20, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tobi Only Sways,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ibMpvNNx,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-02-20T03:51:26.822+0000)

Did you state the same about duying the tank meta?

Well it's true >_>

TekkenPlayerFeb 20, 20161 votes

It's more becoming a pick meta than anything. Hence why Lux is in a good spot.

IsoVhellFeb 20, 20161 votes

Nope I beat them all.

notmebuthimFeb 20, 20161 votes

Isn't any champion strong because of a META? Isnt a champion OP because they are better then the others for the current META??? Lux isn't the in my top 5 problems in the game, but she could use some small changes.

TekkenPlayerFeb 20, 20161 votes

She is strong because soloq is heavily reliant on snowballing. People are more willing to pick snowball champions therefore aggressive laners have a hard time vs Lux unless they play extremely intricately. People don't pick utility champions like Lissandra, Lulu, Ori, or Anivia and afk farm with to because people have the tendency to just try to snowball lane asap. Lux can automatically tilt opponents that aren't careful in lane and almost everyone goes the Morello/ludens build when they are supposed to go ROAs, Athene's or Abyssal vs her in lane of course then roam to other lanes

Baby GhoulFeb 20, 20161 votes

Irelia used to be super problematic, but she's fallen to the side because of Malphite DrMundo Trundle Pantheon and Quinn .

Doesn't it strike you as a bit odd that a burst mage is doing so well at the same time tanks are doing so well? Burst damage is supposed to be countered by tanks, and DPS is supposed to be a counter to tanks. It's a neat little triangle that Lux does not fit in like she used to.

I hate tanks, but I think you're being a bit blind if you don't think Lux is at least a little too powerful right now. The problem is her, not everyone else.

AbyssphereFeb 20, 20161 votes

Lux has been this strong since her last buff. The meta hasn't been in a favourable position for her for the best part of a year.

Not to mention champions have been nerfed for being in favourable metas before. Lissandra last year being a prime example.

ValyrianBladeFeb 20, 20161 votes

Lux was already a perfectly viable and frankly very strong mid laner before her latest buffs.

When she was buffed the boards and PBE erupted saying it was unnecessary and she would be made OP. Riot buffed her anyways. Players have since complained that she is OP. Once other nerfs have gone through more joined the bandwagon.

I don't see how that equates to a champion that is favored by the meta. That's a champion who received an unnecessary buff. Same as Kog'maw. He's not remotely favored by the meta. He simply had a 50-51% win rate and got a sizeable buff that put him over the top. Same thing happened with Hecarim last season, perfectly viable then buffed to OP status (and now nerfed to the depths). Same thing seems to happen everywhere.

BRBGTGBOWFLEXFeb 20, 20161 votes

I think you have the whole thing backwards.

The "meta" is defined by champions that are powerful. If Lux is part of the meta, or if the meta is "Lux favorable" that means that Lux is strong enough at the game to be way more powerful than other champions. Lux is part of what defines the meta.

Lux is overpowered and meta defining for a core reason-- she offers low risk with high reward.

Extremely low risk.

Death timers are huge so low risk champions are powerful.
Lux can do a lot of what she does from a range where she cannot be interacted with.
Lux's CDs mean there are nearly zero consequences for missed abilities later on in the game.
Lux can interact with most champions from ranges that they cannot interact with her.
Barrier adds a layer of protection from dives and for the team.