Mordekaiser's inherent problems, a.k.a. what makes Morde doomed to mediocrity

Malicious Metal··46 votes·5,571 views

So, Meddler did clarify that Mordekaiser's not being looked at in the near future, which in my opinion's the right call, seeing that Morde's kit can shift from UP to OP with even the tiniest change. And this is exactly where the problem with Mordekaiser lies, his kit in inherently flawed due to broken aspects, snowballs mechanics and lack of utility. In the following discussion piece I'd like to bring up the aspects of Mordekaiser's kit that make him unbalanceable and which are detrimental to him ever being healthy and a champion riot can fully support. Note, this is MY personal sentiment, everybody's entitled to have their own feelings on the matter.

I'll divide this topic into three parts I deem are the most blatant displays of unhealthy design and should be addressed; Iron Man, Children of the Grave and Mordekaiser's lack of Utility

Numero Uno; Iron Man! I love this ability, it's what makes Mordekaiser who he is: Building up a gigantic shield with the damage you deal makes you feel invincible and enables Mordekaiser to do his job as a damage threat. Yet, there's a problem with this passive; It's extremely snowball reliant! Iron Man being calculated with damage dealt makes Mordekaiser reliant on snowballing or else he'll have troubles keeping up his defenses in fights. Darius has % missing HP heals, which aren't tied to his damage output, making it far more useful when behind.

Yet, Iron Man is one, if not THE defining part of Mordekaiser, which leaves a bitter taste in my mouth if I think about it. It's an awesome, almost OP passive when ahead or even and pitiful when behind. It makes for high moments but also for very low ones. I remember the old Mordekaiser rework that was proposed in patch 4.6, making Morde's abilities grant a portion of his MAX hp as shield. It did enable him to get behind and still function but it made it all the less satisfying. ->I for once think Morde's shield gain could be changed to either grant a percentage of the damage dealt or a portion of his max health, depending which value's greater, making him still scale really well with damage but also giving him a fallback pattern

Numero Dos; Children of the Grave It makes me sad that Mordekaiser's two most iconic aspects are also what makes him so hard to balance and "healthy" enough for Riot to fully support. Children of the Grave also shares the problem Iron Man has but it's actually the other way around; This ultimate scales off how hard YOU're losing, a.k.a. The more fed the enemy is the better this ability gets. Not only does it make for some of Mordekaiser's most satisfying moments but it also makes for the most frustrating experiences when facing off against a Morde. It not only STEALS a team member from you but also BUFFS said clone and even Mordekaiser himself, turning the game into a 6v4, putting your team into a huge disadvantage. Most other ultimates either provide damage or CC but Morde's outright gives you an additional teammate as well as functioning as a really strong damaging ability.

And yet, when the enemy's underfed this ability becomes practically worthless, giving you an additional minion to tank towers. Children of the grave is inherently broken due to it scaling on how hard the enemy's winning and giving your team another member for up to 75 seconds. It pains me to think about it but Mordekaiser's most iconic features do come with a lot of problems regarding game health and are broken in one way or the other.

Mordekaiser's complete and utter lack of Utility This is what makes Mordekaiser so snowball reliant. He does not provide lockdown, he's immobile, he does not have range, he does not have sieging prowess, his poke is practically non-existent, he does not offer any kinds of buffs to his allies. Mordekaiser's DAMAGE and DURABILITY, he's got double D's.

This is what makes Mordekaiser unbalanceable. He does not have any form of Utility to provide to his team when behind. Darius got his pull, Garen's got his Villain mechanic, Skarner has his ultimate and stun/slow. Morde can potentially grab a clone in the midst of battle but he does not provide anything to his team when behind.

He can catch up when late game comes around but when the enemy's able to close out the game he's utterly useless to his team. As a top laner he does not provide the cc or durability to function as a front line, even when behind As a mid laner he lacks strong ranged wave clear and utility As an ADC he lacks range and sieging prowess As a Jungler he lacks CC, engage, map presence and yet again Utility

This is Morde's core problem. Both Iron Man and Children of the Grave's issues are nothing compared to his inherent lack of utility. Mordekaiser's known as the champion without CC and mobility, whose only redeeming quality's damage. As much as this plays into his identity it dooms him to forever be considered a sub-par pick. Every champion needs some form of utility, ONE feature that always makes them be of some use to their team. Yet Mordekaiser lacks any form of Utility, something that's almost required from a "viable" champion nowadays.

Mordekaiser requires a rework to address these three inherent problems. Even if it means only retaining the FEEL of Mordekaiser. He needs to have a kit that can be supported long-term, one that gives him avenues to play from behind, one that gives him fallback patterns and gets rid of the insane snowballyness of his current kit.

Morde should still be Mordekaiser though, he should keep his passive shield that scales with damage dealt, he should summon dead specters to do his bidding, he should be an immobile metal wall, he should be slow and lumbering, durable as can be and a high damage threat, yet he should be able to provide his team with more than just raw damage. Be it a minor slow, an MR/Armor shred (<-My personal favorite), a root or simply being able to function as beefy front line even when behind.

~M.M

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dmhkBWMSLV8/VN3qF0iBvGI/AAAAAAAAj5c/f13OAkAwgF8/s1600/morde.jpg

72 Comments

Lord Boltrix6 votes

Well, our Iron Revenant is a unique champion who lacks cc or mobility, and the thing we should be trying to do is try to embrace what he has, and work to find a way to make him work.

There are ways to make a lack of mobility and crowd control work. I use Illaoi as an example: her cc (the slow of her Test of Spirit) and mobility (the dash of her Harsh Lesson) is not something she can innately rely on to make plays like it would for other champions. Rather, she makes use of her environment to utilize damage and deal with people in a way that they aren't normally prepared to deal with, and often the slow and dash can be easily overlooked with the more prominent parts of her kit.

Mordekaiser can function without crowd control and mobility, it's just a matter of giving him the same ability to take advantage of openings and allow for opportunities.

In regards to a lot of Mordekaiser's kit, adding missing health percentage values to his kit would make him less snowball reliant. Having the heal of Mordekaiser's W be tied to missing health would make it less oppressive when he is ahead and far more useful when he is behind, and Mordekaiser's Iron Man could be adjusted to a mix between damage dealt and missing health, depending on which value is stronger, so Mordekaiser no longer has to snowball to make the most of Iron Man.

In regards to utility, Mordekaiser doesn't really need that much in terms of utility compared to other champions, his Iron Man passive provides a lot of utility to his kit in the form of free shielding from dealing damage. Some temporary resist bonuses might help his utility considering that without the aid of items, Mordekaiser often won't be the one dictating when battles start or when they end compared to other champions with mobility or crowd control, so he is sort of at the mercy of the opponent deciding when to engage and when to disengage.

In regards for Children of the Grave, this is a tricky thing. See, by requiring the cursed champion to die to make the most of the ability, that makes it inevitably tied to snowballing for Mordekaiser to achieve maximum effectivenesss. This is more prevalent on Mordekaiser than any other champion, as most others who benefit mechanically from kills in some way just get some reset cooldowns (Katarina, Darius) or get to extend buffs to themselves (Master Yi, Darius again).

Honestly, the only thing I could see done for Mordekaiser there is by making it easier to get the kill without giving Mordekaiser any inherent number buff, an example might be granting vision or some hint for Mordekaiser and his teammates where a cursed champion might be, so perhaps it would be easier for champions with extreme long-range pick-offs (Caitlyn, Lux, Jhin) to help Mordekaiser secure a ghost.

Another thing Mordekaiser could use is more physical damage in his kit, because all the damage in his kit is tied to magical damage and makes it easy to stonewall Mordekaiser's damage considering he lacks any true damage in his kit. Giving him more AD and physical damage in his kit would allow his attacks to go through without needing to have more utility in his kit to give him openings, and thus risking his kit become overloaded.

An example would be Siphon of Destruction, separate the AD and AP so that the ability does mixed damage with physical and magical damage being cast from their respective stat sources; that way, Mordekaiser can be properly countered with items depending on whether he goes AD or AP but some of his damage will get through regardless. Another example would be Harvester of Sorrow, and perhaps having a physical damage component to this ability - perhaps bring back the metal shrapnel into the animation - that scales from bonus AD (which would promote AD-based Mordekaiser builds).

Ultimately, Mordekaiser can work, we just need to give him the tools he needs to assert himself as the Numero Uno of the League of Legends. \m/

J Eevo7 votes

I wouldn't really consider Illaoi working per se. She's never gonna be picked at the higher levels of play because of her gameplay pattern, and even in lower tiers she's struggling to do her job.

Lord Boltrix1 votes

(shrugs) You have a point there, but I would also have to say that part of the reason she struggles overall is that people simply aren't used to a champion quite like her, both the people who use her and the people who face her. It's no joke that a lot of people do not understand how she works, and a good reason she still sees bans is because people don't want to face her, not because she is overpowered... but because they don't understand how she functions and they don't want to be bothered to learn to play against her.

Honestly I don't hate Illaoi, but she suffers from a distinct lack of counterplay in that she either punishes any sort of melee champion who doesn't have some sort of healing gimmick or is quite immobile, or is completely wrecked by any sort of ranged top champion. To be fair, she isn't broken by any means, but she is held back by how oppressive she can be to other melee top laners and by how easily she can be put down by anyone with ranged auto-attacks.

For Illaoi, all I would do is two things: change how Illaoi's tentacles work so that they go down in two hits for melee like usual, but require four hits from ranged auto-attacks to do the same. The second thing I would change is how the Tentacle Smash's skillshot box works, and change it to befit an actual tentacle... that is, make it thinner at the end of the hitbox compared to the start of the hitbox where it is thickest, making it easier to dodge if you're just within range of the skillshot.

That makes dodging her tentacles relatively easier and makes side-stepping against Illaoi key to beating her, but at the same time you can't automatically win against her just by taking a ranged top champion. I could see things being worked around and tinkered with in her kit if that was the case, but that is what I would do for Illaoi.

Tobias Brackner1 votes

"either punishes any sort of melee champion who doesn't have some sort of healing gimmick or is quite immobile" idk, when the box shows up it's a pretty easy move to dodge. You just gotta be aware that it coming at you and that she can throw it at you.

"is completely wrecked by any sort of ranged top champion" I don't agree. Tentacle Smash is good for safe farming & harass and her soul grab move works just the same on ranged champs.

J Eevo1 votes

Tentacles smash doesn't really have a low enough cd and big enough of an impact for her to handle ranged champions well, and those champions have an easier time when trying to dodge the soul grab as they can stay safely in the wave of creeps and her E does literally nothing if it gets creepblocked. She also lacks reliable gap closers and her ult is pretty ineffective against ranged opponents, as well as her tentacles being easier to erase from afar as she can't defend them as well as she could against a melee.

Tobias Brackner1 votes

Nah her tenacle smash is plenty good. Worst case scenario you have a little below average farm. Also you can train them to avoid the minion line by using it to last hit, opening them up for the soul grab. Range champions by no means completely wreck her.

J Eevo1 votes

Well she's better off against ranged enemies than something melee only, sure. but it's going to be a lane with no kill potential and you just trying to poke from afar with Q. She has no way of catching up to a ranged opponent unless he walks into her on his own, and considering what ranged picks(Lissandra Vayne Quinn are frequenting top she's hardly 'good' against them.

Tobias Brackner1 votes

Eh, I'd say extremely limited kill potential but at this point I'm wondering what we are even talking about. My initial point is that she isn't completely wrecked by ranged top but I'm getting the impression that you assumed I was saying she is good against them.

Tobias Brackner1 votes

I think that has a lot to do w/ teamwork. Illaoi shits dmg like no other when she gets a 5 man ult. She just needs someone to set it up for her, the same way a bot carry needs someone to set them up for kills.

J Eevo1 votes

I'd say you need a LOT more setup for a good 5 man illaoi than you need for a bot carry, and more often than not it doesn't happen, and while the 5man ult is devastating it's kind of the only upside of picking illaoi as her teamfighting without an ult on 2 or 3 people is pretty mediocre

Tobias Brackner2 votes

2 or 3 tentacles laying the smack down are pretty devastating.

However if your point is that Illaoi is not a good pick for skirmisher teams then I agree that other champions would suite the role more.

J Eevo1 votes

She's great against engage comps, and pretty bad against anything else because she can't really engage on her own, and requires either big wombo setups for R or staying in one place longer to deploy her tentacles and set up before the fight. And while I have seen Illaoi ult straight up deleting whole teams in lower tiers (which I find hilarious by the way :D) she requires too much work to pull it off against even a semi competent team.

Tobias Brackner1 votes

"She's great against engage comps" Check this out: What if your team is the engage comp?

J Eevo1 votes

The she's not that great because you can't set up your tentacles in time, and you're too slow to engage by yourself. Her only chance in engaging is if someone wombos by like an amumu's R or a galio R etc. her Q spam while annoying is not really strong enough to warrant the pick, her R deleting teams is but it requires teamwork and a well built comp.

Tobias Brackner1 votes

I find it strange that you talk about time needed to set up tentacles since her ult lets her spawn up to 5 instantaniously.

"a well built comp" Not even. She just needs a good initiator. If your team has an amumu, sej, malph, etc then she is all set to completely melt the enemy team.

J Eevo1 votes

I literally just said that she needs someone to start the wombo by using an amumu's r or galio r to set up her own ult.

she suffers from the same problems as morde in that her solo play potential is severely limited (which is why i pointed out that she doesn't really work well when someone said that morde should be more like her)

Tobias Brackner1 votes

Well yah you did "just say" that but then you said "a well built comp." I guess we are talking about scale here cuz to me having an initiator is vital to any team comp.

J Eevo1 votes

Depends on what you're running really, sure you need cc regardless, but you can go by without a hard initiator like amumu, especially now that people like to run devo guinsoo shit.

Tobias Brackner1 votes

Well you can but then you get that shit you see in the LCS where both teams dance around each other with no one able to start a fight.

Hell, you don't even need that hard of an initiator since Illaoi can try and force a teamfight through a soul grab.

Stars Shaper6 votes

Unfortunally, a character focused on raw damage and raw defense will most likely be feast or famine no matter what.

I honestly liked how in his rework each skill got a minor gimmick to play around and I think that this is the way to go to make him a fun, viable character without denying his identity. You can give him windows of strenght and weakness that don't rely on feeding status.

Malicious Metal5 votes

Precisely.

YCitizenSnipsY2 votes

Wait I thought the rework was a complete failure and the gimmick was one of the main reasons. I'm almost positive that I've seen both you and Malicious Metal both say so.

I agree with the rest though, how do you make a "juggernaut" with no utility or mobility viable in this state of the game. As Riot showed us, you break him. I don't think there is anyway to keep those aspects of his kit and ever have him in a "good" spot. I know people like to circle jerk about how good they are about winning with a champ with no mobility and utility and all, but how do you really balance that champion with a kit like that without inflating his numbers. He needs a real rework, a Poppy or Sion kind. Not like the ones they give Ryze.

Gentzer4 votes

I think Children of the Grave and Iron Man could be salvaged without a whole lot of fuss, after all, many other champions are supported with "low-counterplay" or "unhealthy" moves or kits (See: Vi and her ult)

It's all about the lack of utility and fallback patterns. Darius is the champion I like to present as THE Juggernaut definition. He gets destroyed by kite, can do stupid damage in his effective range, and has fallback patterns in the form of Noxian Might and Decimate healing. Those two things are factors regardless of Darius being fed or behind. Morde needs something that is CONSISTENTLY useful in his kit, that isn't dependent on his damage or tankiness, to help him out. Lack of utility is somewhat solved by Ryali's on Morde; it's as good a CC load as the other Juggernauts.

LilxPaprika3 votes

With neither mobility, nor CC, nor assassination potential

his assasination comes later when he gets mobility items, which there are many that work well on him. Even if you built only mobility items you'd still do ample damage thats how strong he is. Coordinate with team/ aka competitive pick that works well over mic. Simply have an ally go ahead of you and w to him. Say Hecarim and he's a great bunker buster against enemy frontline.

Whos utter reliance on magic damage via spells gives him zero Damage on turrets

lol wut, mord ad scaling is through the roof.

That is the nature of his kit. I think its refreshing. There are 100+ champions to choose from that have good mobility and cc. This champ trades these for huge threat and great at protecting back line. Enemy has to go through you, don't always have to go to them let them come to you. An expectantly strong defense can win you the game just as much as trying to get picks off.

I think the main issue with mord is players aren't used to this genre of playing. In the right hands/circumstances he's really strong. item 3068

Who has no viable build-path towards tankyness unless he wants to be irrelevant

really? really? item 3748 item 3091 item 3156 item 3071 item 3146 item 3116 item 3022 item 3068 yes black cleaver. his auto reset and the cdr it gives make it work. the mobility from phage is well worth it on mord. also help further fulfill your role of destroying enemy front line. play him to his strength.

Mobility try: summoner 6 summoner 3 especially if played mid + insight mastery/ tier3 boots / item 3158 / item 3009 not to mention zzrot/dmp/rylais/slow gunlade.

summoner 11 summoner 3 might actually work in jungle.

The only issue is he's item dependent for this. but at least he's hard to kill and can clear minion waves easily to make up for this.

maybe a way to make more gold like gp or with a TF he would be strong, or have some compensation for getting a mana item like item 3025 item 3078 item 3800 .

he could also use something like: item 3170

J Eevo28 votes

1st off - You can't really call walking up to someone and AAing them to death an 'assassination' 2nd - AD scaling on Morde is less usefull than the AP scaling because he works better with most AP items and the magic scaling and penetration is better for him in addition to him being a champion completely revolving around Q, which doesn't do anything to turrets, he also has pretty bad base stats for an ad, low as and generally doesn't utilize crit, armor pen and lifesteal to it's full potential. 3rd - yeah you can run into the team at full speed but unless you're ridiculously ahead that's just asking to get killed as you can't catch enemies without leaving your team behind and you can't slow the enemies long enough for your team to catch up, so you're completely reliant on someone else setting up the teamfight, and you just walking around meleeing everybody which only really works if you're ahead and have a proper teamcomp with your enemy having a teamcomp that can't run from Morde(since mobile stuff like Kallista, Vayne or Kindred will run from you regardless)

Troll for Trump6 votes

1st off - You can't really call walking up to someone and AAing them to death an 'assassination'

nah Udyr MasterYi

But yeah, Morde isn't an assassin.

TheImpLord5 votes

they don't walk up they fking sprint.

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

Actually Yi has a gap closer, and udyr has mobility because he has the 2nd highest base MS and can hit 600-700 MS easily and constantly.

Troll for Trump1 votes

Actually, Panth and YI have highest base MS.

Also, 'twas a joke

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

forgot path </3 shame they're nerfing him although he was a bit overwhelming early lane phase they coulda shifted some early game power to late game instead of just nerfing him outright T.T

And silly me, including in-kit MS boost as base xD

Saphixia1 votes

i would also add XinZhao but yi is almost a marksman assassin if that makes sense he deals sustained damage over a period of time

Micbran8 votes

-Champ does mostly magic damage and has better AP scalings: I know! Let's build a black cleaver! But you're right about the phage passive. It made trinity a must buy before they changed it. It's not as good without the AP.

Also, frozen mallet is meh compared to Rylai's since they both do the same job (sticking to people you q) but one is way better.

Morde does have some good tank options, but I still think it's his base stats that are the problem. Remove the passive on his W and lower the duration of the clone on his ult a little so we can finally have some decent base HP on Morde.

LilxPaprika2 votes

{quoted}

-Champ does mostly magic damage and has better AP scalings: I know! Let's build a black cleaver! But you're right about the phage passive. It made trinity a must buy before they changed it. It's not as good without the AP.

Also, frozen mallet is meh compared to Rylai's since they both do the same job (sticking to people you q) but one is way better.

Morde does have some good tank options, but I still think it's his base stats that are the problem. Remove the passive on his W and lower the duration of the clone on his ult a little so we can finally have some decent base HP on Morde.

okay heres why, attack speed is really nice on mord. mainly because auto reset is so useful. if your first auto is slow it makes trying to take advantage of the auto reset on mord's q less worth while. Most people would rather just try and get third q off asap and so don't bother using the auto reset it gives. with as you get both auto reset and third q. helps your ad carry alot as well. vs malphite etc. example item 3006 item 3071 item 3146 item 3124 item 3065 item 3742 or get item 3748 instead of item 3124 , helps apply blackcleaver in aoe

its the cdr that people overlook too. where else can you get 20 cdr and some tankyness, remember 180% ad on third q also

I do think this build is worth you while: item 3153 item 3142 item 3053item 3056item 3111 item 3152 here are my runes/ mastery http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2116681181/38492205?tab=overview

don't buy it in that order, was testing.

yet another build : item 3158 item 3091 item 3146 item 3742 item 3156 item 3053 (don't need vampirism mastery on this one imo) 10%armor pen on maw is peanuts gold wise. get 20% cdr from runes and mostly as marks

YumaS2Astral1 votes

Attack speed could be useful due to Mordekaiser's Q, and only due to that. There are two problems with that, though. First, Mordekaiser lacks stickness. Even with Rylai and all the movement speed buffs that you can imagine (Deadman's Plate, Boots of Swiftness, movement speed quintessences) Mordekaiser still has trouble sticking to his targets due to lack of natural mobility (dashes, for example). The second problem is that there are not any attack speed items that are useful for Mordekaiser.

You are better off getting other stats.

LilxPaprika1 votes

{quoted}

Attack speed could be useful due to Mordekaiser's Q, and only due to that. There are two problems with that, though. First, Mordekaiser lacks stickness. Even with Rylai and all the movement speed buffs that you can imagine (Deadman's Plate, Boots of Swiftness, movement speed quintessences) Mordekaiser still has trouble sticking to his targets due to lack of natural mobility (dashes, for example). The second problem is that there are not any attack speed items that are useful for Mordekaiser.

You are better off getting other stats.

and minion pathing can also be a pain to navigate around.

effective use of team mates you can w to and ghost is really all i can say. Maybe his w could be looked at then. but I really don't think much needs to be done. How about he could path through minions if walking towards ally. That would be ample right there.

there's this idea I had for devourer change it would give you more mobility towards low health target. An attack speed item like that might be cool. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/r02oNn2R-change-devourer-rather-than-nerf-it?comment=0001

{quoted}

Having a mordekaiser W like passive would be cool. A low target would have a small ring indicator around them. If you enter it as you close in on them you gain movement speed. Once you enter it, it stays for 3 seconds. There could be like a 10 second cool down per target like udyr stun/ekko passive.

Goosetard3 votes

Like you I have a deep affection for Mordekaiser; he was one of the first champions I started to do well reliably with when I started playing ranked in season 3. I think what happened to him with the rework was a travesty.

I think Riot's attachment to what they perceive to be his "identity" puts them in a bit of a tough spot, and they aren't trying very hard to get out of it. They'd rather use him as a (failed) metagame experiment than deliver something better for the champion and his fans. But that's not really the point here. Anywho, as you point out, Riot seems to be attached to these two parts of mordekaiser:

  • His Ultimate
  • Being a "juggernaut." In terms of champion lore and character, he's probably the jugger-nautiest of the bunch. He's supposed to be an unfeeling, unkillable, unstoppable hunk of metal that thrives on pain and, although slow, will walk through your entire team if given a chance. You argue that specifically they are attached to his passive; I think his passive is an iconic implementation of THIS trait which they don't wish to compromise.

It's difficult to make these two coexist. His ultimate can turn a 5 v 5 into a 6 v 4, and ups his power significantly. No other champion in the game has an ultimate with a swing like that. It's not that it's better when the other team is fed; it's that it's too punishing when your team gets a kill. Giving him dragon ghosts was a silly gimmick trying to make it do something besides punish the other team for losing a fight and leave him useless when it's misused.

To deliver on his "juggernaut" theme they've chosen to give him the absolute worst mobility in the game, which puts the agency COMPLETELY on his opponent in any solo lane situation. Even when his numbers are good or terrible, his opponent is completely controlling the engagement. Never mind that his weakness has always been ganks, and that he's been relegated to the longest lane in the game (top), and his entire kit autopushes. He doesn't have the tools to do anything his opponent doesn't want him to do. This results in incredibly binary matchups, even more so than before--only now they're mostly against Morde (and apparently that means CertainlyT's rework was successful, because he thought Morde was binary and overpowered before).

Someone in the comments brought up Illaoi, and, whatever problems she may have as a champion (completely abusive at low elo, completely underwhelming at high elo), Riot did some really interesting and creative implementations of how to limit a juggernaut's windows of power by linking them to pre-determined areas. If Riot wants to deliver thematically on Mordekaiser's kit, they can do the same thing and get creative. Here's some suggestions which try to give Mordekaiser some interesting choices while clearly communicating to him and his opponent where he's powerful vs where they have opportunities to outplay him.

Let his W be a large-ish area cast that's only activated when he's in it (he no longer gets a zone) and gives him a movespeed boost towards it that slowly builds up. Now it can be a mobility tool or a trading/lanepushing tool, but not both unless your opponent decides to fight you in it.

If you Q someone inside your W, give it a root, or a slow, or a little knock, or something. Some kind of utility, but only in that area. Now he can slap a W on himself and gain utility, but not if he used it to get close to someone unless they chose to fight him there.

Don't make his passive generation tied to his damage; it's too snowbally as you pointed out. Make it build up with damage Morde has taken, and then let him choose to use it to deal additional damage or gain a shield. I dunno how to do this; maybe tie it so that standing in W converts it to a shield, but using an ability first converts it to damage?

E can stay pretty much as is, but if he casts E into a W zone, he gets spellvamp on it (to replace healing that's missing w/out W heal)

R shouldn't just straight up give you an extra person because you did something right in a teamfight. Too punishing if successful. I don't think it's a "high moment of strategy" trying to defend who it's on; I think the smart Morde doesn't put it on anyone who isn't doomed. in teamfights he's an ultbot until successful at which point he's horrendously oppressive. How about something like so:

Mordekaiser summons a slain enemy to fight for him (just a faceless ghost-y lookin guy if he hasn't killed anyone). This ghost is controllable, has some hp and stats (scale with whatever), and a permanent W zone around him while he lives. He lasts for X seconds. When the spirit attacks an enemy, they are marked. Only one champion may be marked at a time, and marks expire when the spirit dies. If a marked enemy dies while the ult is active, they assume the place of the spirit, refreshing the spirits HP and duration as well as Mordekaiser's passive. They have complete crap attack speed no matter who they are, and always have a pretty short attack range (think thresh). Has a similar flavor, more interesting to interact with, provides the enemy team with a choice (focus ghost to reduce morde's power despite it not being an actual enemy, ignore and try to kite morde who has some additional mobility/utility while it's active).

Just my thoughts.

Keep fighting the good fight for morde, man. Love you, love your work.

The Yetii Rider3 votes

Idea to help Mordekaiser function better even when behind:

PASSIVE - Iron Man

New Utility: As long as Mordekaiser's shield is 50% full, he gains 5/10/15 bonus armor/MR (1/6/11). At 100% shield, this doubles to 10/20/30 bonus armor/MR.

Juggernauts need inherent resistances so they can feel better about building raw health. This will make Mordekaiser the hulking titan he is meant to be, while still giving clear counterplay (30 armor/MR is really good, but even one attack will cut it in half). Essentially, the 100% shield is amazing for absorbing burst (as it should be) making Mordekaiser a much better frontline.

Baron of Bread2 votes

Wouldn't that just exacerbate his feat/famine problem? When he is behind he won't be able to fill his shield effectively so he won't benefit from this. When he is ahead it will be even harder to take him down because he can fill his shield much more easily.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Baron of Bread,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iX8FgF4E,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2016-03-06T20:32:03.214+0000)

Wouldn't that just exacerbate his feat/famine problem? When he is behind he won't be able to fill his shield effectively so he won't benefit from this. When he is ahead it will be even harder to take him down because he can fill his shield much more easily.

His E gives him 15% of his max shield when it hits a champ, and his ultimate can fill his shield up pretty well if you don't break the tether.

Baron of Bread2 votes

I agree that it will make a behind Morde stronger, but it will help the ahead Mordekaiser more.

Also, what tether?

rtbf2256182413 votes

Not this again..

franticFurball2 votes

You don't need a long post to point out the problems with Mordekaiser. very simply put:

Hes a Melee, bruiser type champion...

  • With neither mobility, nor CC, nor assassination potential

  • Who has no viable build-path towards tankyness unless he wants to be irrelevant

  • Whos utter reliance on magic damage via spells gives him zero Damage on turrets

Erockandroll1 votes

{quoted}

You don't need a long post to point out the problems with Mordekaiser. very simply put:

Hes a Melee, bruiser type champion...

  • With neither mobility, nor CC, nor assassination potential

  • Who has no viable build-path towards tankyness unless he wants to be irrelevant

  • Whos utter reliance on magic damage via spells gives him zero Damage on turrets

  1. He was part of the Juggernaut rework. Juggernauts arn't suppose to have large amounts of CC or Mobility.

  2. I would really like to disagree on this. Mainly when You know what Tank items to use. Last game I played with Mord, I was able to combined Abyssal, Sunfire, and Sorc Shoes. Giving me a good mix of defenses with the Armor, MR and HP. While the MR reduction/penetration from Sorc's and Abyssal, Synergized well will Sunfire damage, along with the base damages on his abilities. Splash in Crystal scepter if you want to add CC into his build.

  3. And that's a problem Why? You may argue that's a problem with Bot lane Mord. But even in the LCS, they didn't put an ADC in another position. And it's easier to do that now than it was back then. So really tower pushing isn't even a comp requirement for Mord.

franticFurball1 votes

He was part of the Juggernaut rework. Juggernauts arn't suppose to have large amounts of CC or Mobility.

Ah yes, that must be why...

Skarner has a low CD speedboost, passive speedbost around pylons, a slow, a stun and the most powerful disable in the game.

Darius has a slow and a displacement ability

Nasus has the most powerful targeted slow in the entire game

Garen has a ressourceless, low CD speedboost which also removes all slows, and a second speedboost in his E

Also, since all of these champions happen to be AD, they can make use of items like item 3071 item 3025 item 3078, which increases their mobility, whereas Mordekaiser can theoretically buy these items yes...if hes okay with not doing any damage.

I would really like to disagree on this.

Disagree all you like, but unless you are up against a heavy AP based team, AByssals is pointless. And Sunfires? Good luck, now your opponent can completely ignore your damage output.

And that's a problem Why? You may argue that's a problem with Bot lane Mord. But even in the LCS, they didn't put an ADC in another position.

When Morde was played in the LCS, he still had his OP Q-burst. This is no longer the case.

Why that is a problem? Because Morde gets bullied out of the lane by a real bruiser. And then loses his turret.

BastionKross2 votes

Numero Uno; Iron Man!

This ability essentially makes Morde into a pseudo drain-tank. And we all know how good Riot is at balancing drain-tanks. Aatrox Not Warwick Great However, unlike a normal drain-tank, Morde doesn't get to keep most of his shield when he fills it up. It's temporary. So an easy way to balance this out is to have Morde's shield generate not on damage dealt, but on a percentage of his shield. For example, you land E on an enemy champion. Morde doesn't generate a shield based on how much damage your E does, but X% of the max of the shield instead. That way, a Morde that falls behind can still generate shields similar to a Morde that's ahead, and thereby be tanky for his team. Of course, the Morde that's ahead will still generate more shield since he'll most likely have more HP. This is a reward for doing well, not something absolutely required for you to survive like it is now.

Numero Dos; Children of the Grave

It's almost impossible to balance an ability that scales with how well your opponents are doing. If you're ahead, it's nothing. If you're behind, it's everything. Neither of those two situations feels good. A possible solution is that Morde's ghost is not a clone of an enemy champion, but a generic unit that is similar for every champion it spawns from. Something like Tibbers, where every time you summon him, you know what you're going to be dealing with. That's not to say the ghost can't be scaled a bit based on the champion that spawned it (to give the impression that each ghost is unique) but the scaling shouldn't determine if the ghost is powerful or just another unit for tanking turrets. Morde's power should determine that, either by scaling with his stat(s) or how many ranks he has in his ult or both.

Mordekaiser's complete and utter lack of Utility Mordekaiser's known as the champion without CC and mobility, whose only redeeming quality's damage. Yet Mordekaiser lacks any form of Utility, something that's almost required from a "viable" champion nowadays.

Having a champion without utility is a thing you can do. In fact, not having mobility or cc or any kind of buff/debuff can free up a lot of power for his kit. The problem is that Riot tends to undervalue mobility. They're not shy about slapping a whole bunch of it on a champion along with high damage, lots of cc, and/or innate tankiness as well. Mobile champs don't always pay a heavy price for being mobile.

As far as Morde goes, if all he has is damage and tankiness, then he should have those two things whether he's ahead or behind. Unlike the vast majority of other champs, he literally brings nothing if he's not tanky and outputting damage. Other champs can get punished for falling behind by not having damage or tankiness, and having to rely on their utility to aid their team.

Morde can not afford to be punished like that because he has nothing to fall back on.

So rather than adding utility to his kit and making him like all the other champs, I say we make his damage and tankiness relevant at all points in the game no matter how fed he is (or isn't). The above changes to his passive will accomplish the second half. Now, you could just slap on some %HP or true damage (or god forbid, both) into his kit and call it a day, but that's overused and unfun to play against. You could also give him free magic pen that scales with level, so that he'll be hitting hard at all stages of the game, but that seems unfair to his opponents that build against him.

The solution is quick, easy, and opens Morde up to so many possibilities: mixed damage. Right now, Riot wants us to build Morde with both AD and AP, but the only physical damage Morde has is his unempowered auto attacks. Yes, it makes CSing easier, but so does any of Morde's non-ult abilities. There's no bonus to having those AD scalings. But what if your Q did physical damage? Or what if W or E did physical damage, either entirely or half and half like Corki? Or what if your ghost did physical damage? The answer is that now you have to build all three defensive stats, or some part of Morde's kit is still going to chunk your HP bar, even when he's behind. This also opens item builds up by adding things like Black Cleaver and Maw to Morde's possible item choices.

What we end up with is when Morde gets ahead, he's rewarded with more damage and more tankiness. When Morde falls behind, he still has a base level of tankiness and damage that he can aid his team with. That way, when the enemy team sees that 0/8/6 Morde in a teamfight, he's actually still a threat instead of a tall, dark, and handsome cannon minion. Granted he's much less of a threat than if he had gold, but he's still able to bring something to the table without having to rely on utility in some form.

Mordekaiser's DAMAGE and DURABILITY, he's got double D's.

This image will haunt my dreams forever.

Fat Bastard GOD2 votes

I literally don't think anyone could have said this better. Amazing post. Hell I think his passive should stay, but his ultimate definately needs a change. You might as well work at Riot balance HQ...

Dingding1232 votes

Mediokaiser

Auryiel1 votes

The thing is, those problems are insanely OBVIOUS.

I noticed them years ago after playing Morde for only a few games, so it's 100% certain that Riot is aware of those problems, yet they chose not to address them.

I remember trying to come up with abilities that could grant Morde some form of utility or mobility and reduce his overall toxicity.

Examples: His **passive **makes him gain damage reduction based on his missing HP. It would make sense because he kills himself to unleash his full power and he is a master of death, so as he gets closer to the edge, he becomes stronger.

His Q could be a line skillshot. He'd smack the ground, sending out a massive pulse of energy that would stun the first enemy hit and apply a small slow to other enemies.

His **W **could be castable only on himself and generate a shield (shield amount would stack and its duration would be refreshed) every time it hits an enemy, with greater shield gain if an enemy champion is hit. Crazier idea : same thing, except Morde can cast it on allies and THEY gain the shield. Providing a shield to allies would be very out of character, though, but imagine the synergy between that, Rylai's and assassins, divers or even initiating tanks. That would be a great fallback pattern.

His **E **could be a pulse that doesn't immediately hit every enemy unit in the area, but instead expands. Basically, it would be a cone-shaped pass through skill shot. Making it dodgeable would reduce some of Morde's power, but that would be necessary if you were to give him utility. I also had another very crazy idea with his E. What if it applied a mark on all targets hit and for the next few seconds Morde can reactivate E while targeting a marked target and pull it towards him? I'm not talking about a full pull, more something like 300-400 units towards him (roughly the distance covered by Flash). This would also give Morde some form of utility even when he's behind. Could use it as an initiating or peeling tool (imagine fucking up the Zed who's trying to dive your carry by going ''NOPE, GET HERE!''). It could even have a cool name like Dreadlord's Grasp :P

His R, IMO, should be a DoT, but it shouldn't last 10 seconds. More like 6. This reduces its zoning power and burst, but also makes its damage more relevant. That would be a trade off. As far as the ghost part goes, I honestly believe this needs to go. I think it would be cool to have Morde be empowered if his target dies. Something like he gains massive amounts of stats from feeding on the targeted champion's soul when they die while affected by Children of the Grave. You could even give Morde some bonus MS when he's empowered. It would reinforce the idea that if Morde gets his hands on someone's soul he becomes truly unstoppable by making one of his weaknesses (lack of mobility) less of an issue while he's empowered.

Obviously those are just some random ideas, but I think that, like you said, changes should be aimed at making him durable and very dangerous, but have low mobility and MOST IMPORTANTLY less snowbally.

Akenero1 votes

The q idea would work on his old kit The e should NOT have any cc larger than a slow R is a dot, and is %max HP damage Also, the ghost is mordekaiser's big thing.

Vhalthoria1 votes

I mean who wants to use a champion that is designed to be melee?

but:

  1. Has zero mobility.
  2. Has hybrid damage.
  3. Has zero CC.
  4. Has zero utility.
  5. Gets blown up as soon as he tries to go personal.
  6. Has zero escapes.
  7. Has abysmal movement speed.

Considering I come from the old Morde days, I certainly (no pun intended) do not want to bother using this piece of shit rework lol.

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