Things like malzahar ult, Annie stuns, Irelia stun, Jax might be but it has counterplay....
There are items like mikaels and merc BUT isn't this where the problems start. "There's no way you are dodging my malz ult even if you are kalista."
Maybe the problem is mobility. Maybe it is hard cc. Maybe both.
Leblancs Boob4 votes
That's why hard cc exists.
Leblancs Boob1 votesPoint-and-click hard cc*
IcyPepper2 votesI'd say both.
I mean, look at Zed. Lots of mobility, and his ultimate is point and click as well. Zed's ult is like the opposite, point and click untargetabiltiy. At least it's an ultimate ability, but it's defensive utility is undeniable (at least until that one second delay nerf). I'd say that Zed, while not a terribly designed champion or overpowered currently in my opinion, is an example of why we have point and click cc.
Miraweave2 votesHow about exactly because champions like Kalista exist. With no targeted CC, Kalista would be literally unbeatable unless she screwed up.
Maximum Zilean1 votesFunny how you mentioned Kalista not being able to dodge a Malz ult. Her jumping is bugged and she CAN sometimes keep jumping while supressed.
DisasterSola1 votesLol. The point of point and click CC is mobility. you have slows which counter MOVEMENT SPEED and then you have KU's, silences, stuns, roots, and snares to counter free blinks and dashes.
Myrddin1 votesQSS is an item, an item that needs an AP item to build into, but an item never the less.
DisasterSola1 votesQSS is an item, an item that needs an AP item to build into, but an item never the less.
since when was null magic mantle an AP item?
Sir Yamazuki2 votesQSS is an item, an item that needs an AP item to build into, but an item never the less.
No, no it doesn't. AP has the luxury of having items that basically turn them manaless, easy cdr, grievous wounds, zhonyas, all while many of them are also immune to melees as well. There's no AD/Tank Zhonyas, no AD/Tank grievous wounds, and no tank passive move speed for some examples that AP all get.
Malix Farwin1 votes[{quoted}](name=Lord Yamazuki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iVZEcjQP,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2015-06-26T07:47:01.717+0000)
No, no it doesn't. AP has the luxury of having items that basically turn them manaless, easy cdr, grievous wounds, zhonyas, all while many of them are also immune to melees as well. There's no AD/Tank Zhonyas, no AD/Tank grievous wounds, and no tank passive move speed for some examples that AP all get.
Manaless? What item is that!? Even building 2 mana items you still go OOM fairly easily if you are not careful so what mystical item is it that you speak of that makes mana problems go away?
Sir Yamazuki1 votes[{quoted}](name=Malix Farwin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iVZEcjQP,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2015-06-26T09:21:04.301+0000)
Manaless? What item is that!? Even building 2 mana items you still go OOM fairly easily if you are not careful so what mystical item is it that you speak of that makes mana problems go away?
If you're going "oom easily", you're playing the game incorrectly, especially if you bought mana regen.
Miraweave1 votes[{quoted}](name=Lord Yamazuki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iVZEcjQP,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2015-06-26T07:47:01.717+0000)
No, no it doesn't. AP has the luxury of having items that basically turn them manaless, easy cdr, grievous wounds, zhonyas, all while many of them are also immune to melees as well. There's no AD/Tank Zhonyas, no AD/Tank grievous wounds, and no tank passive move speed for some examples that AP all get.
There's no AP QSS, no AP Crit chance, effectively no AP lifesteal because spellvamp is garbage, and APs don't get massive guaranteed damage on their autoattacks for building items that scale their abilities.
Sir Yamazuki1 votes[{quoted}](name=Domo Ahrigato,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iVZEcjQP,comment-id=000200010001,timestamp=2015-06-26T09:24:32.036+0000)
There's no AP QSS, no AP Crit chance, effectively no AP lifesteal because spellvamp is garbage, and APs don't get massive guaranteed damage on their autoattacks for building items that scale their abilities.
Why would APs need crit chance? Did you forget APs have Ludens? It adds another ratio to some already overloaded kits. Last I checked, an adc isn't killing anyone in .5~1 second like mages can, they also have a lot of AOE damage where as auto attacks are single target damage. Come back to me when an Ashe can penta kill with 1 AA and a W like Annie can with an R+W. Vlad is also impossible to deal with for some champions because of sustain and it's being buffed anyways.
You also failed to completely address the fact tanks have NONE of these either, and APs still end up with more than adcs anyways. So you can take your hate for adcs elsewhere.
Miraweave1 votes[{quoted}](name=Lord Yamazuki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iVZEcjQP,comment-id=0002000100010000,timestamp=2015-06-26T09:33:01.862+0000)
Why would APs need crit chance? Last I checked, an adc isn't killing anyone in .5~1 second like mages can, they also have a lot of AOE damage where as auto attacks are single target damage. Vlad is also impossible to deal with for some champions because of sustain and it's being buffed anyways.
The point I'm making is that the two things are totally different. APs get access to more diverse itemization because AD's get massive DPS with autos entirely irrelevant of their kits.
Take any mage, make them do physical damage scaling with AD, and they'd instantly become overpowered.
Sir Yamazuki1 votes[{quoted}](name=Domo Ahrigato,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iVZEcjQP,comment-id=00020001000100000000,timestamp=2015-06-26T09:35:28.513+0000)
The point I'm making is that the two things are totally different. APs get access to_** more diverse**_ itemization because AD's get massive DPS with autos entirely irrelevant of their kits.
Take any mage, make them do physical damage scaling with AD, and they'd instantly become overpowered.
and the point I was making APs already have more options than both tanks and adcs, and you were implying I was wrong, only for you to agree with me in the end.
The Whamboozler1 votesThe point of hard CC is so master Yi doesn't become god tier in EVERY LEVEL OF PLAY.
But seriously, it's the only reliable way to deal with the hyper mobile death champs as they fly around the map at the speed of smell dodging skillshots without trying and ripping apart your team. Can you imagine fighting against a Kalista without stuns? For some champions, that hard CC is the main reason for picking them. Take away Annie's stun and see what she's good for. Almost nothing.
Tidecaller Nami1 votesBecause Kat exists
Vistha Kai1 votesYou know what's truly annoying about Malza? That if you Flash/dash/blink away when he casts his ult (before the thread and CC applies), you will get ulted across whole screen, even though it's past the range and if you'd use QSS it'd be stopped immediately.
Malix Farwin1 votesThey arent inherently bad, it really only depends on the champion's kit they are attached to. Malz and annie have obvious weakesses to exploit so having that strength isnt a bad thing or OP. i notice you play a lot of jinx, without hard cc she is pretty hard to stop so i would understand why you would complain.
Mecha MaIphite1 votes[{quoted}](name=Too Ton,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iVZEcjQP,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-06-26T06:59:16.202+0000)
There's no way you are dodging my malz ult even if you are kalista."
That's the idea.
Abyssphere1 votesMalzahar's ult is a single-target ult. It's not going to be a skillshot - single-target ultimates almost never are. It's called a trade off - you miss out on being able to CC a bunch of people in exchange for being able to reliably get one.
Stuff like Irelia's stun is at least conditional and I'd like to see how you could make it a skillshot given it's melee range.
