the rammus mini rework.

agbudar·May 17, 2017·29 votes·4,005 views

so im m7 silver ish rammus player. so lemme get straight to the point.

what did this rework acomplish IMO?

great clears ( a recuring problem for many unviable tank junglers) Q. more rollin yes please W. i think this was a strike of genius. giving a tank a strong double edged blade that requires decision making? ow yes please. E. Imo this is a bit strong? i love it don't get me wrong but this feels a tad bit strong. (not the taunt duration but the attack speed) R. ok this ult feels like so good right now. i love the slow

overall better defined weaknesses and strength's feels like a buff when you play it right and as a nerf when played wrong so i guess this was a ok success

thanks rito my fav armadillo likes this OK.[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

edit: after reading a few comments about how the self slow really screws him in lane...

what if the self slow only hits when you taunt someone while W is active?

99 Comments

One Ashe OnMay 17, 201712 votes

Sorry for someone who play Rammus in lane this update to the W is bad. They pigeon holed him in jungle only because he isn't reliant on moving to farm monster, when minions you have to. The slow need to go.

5000000000000000May 18, 20175 votes

Maybe E max would fare better in lane? It gives attack speed (useful in trades) and longer taunt, which bypasses the issues with the self slow.

I think it's definitely a nerf, but i think a new playstyle could emerge, instead of just disappearing. Maybe he'll just become a niche counterpick against AA heavy top laners.

But then I don't play Rammus top, so I don't really know what I'm talking about.

One Ashe OnMay 18, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Maybe E max would fare better in lane? It gives attack speed (useful in trades) and longer taunt, which bypasses the issues with the self slow.

I think it's definitely a nerf, but i think a new playstyle could emerge, instead of just disappearing. Maybe he'll just become a niche counterpick against AA heavy top laners.

But then I don't play Rammus top, so I don't really know what I'm talking about.

If you max E you still end with an issue, the low defense. You will get melted in no time since your W is not enought and you won't return enought damage. People would only continue to attack you even after taunt duration because of how easy you will be to kill.

5000000000000000May 18, 20172 votes

I think that makes sense. What if he splits points? Would that be better? It'd still be a nerf compared to before, but I mean compared to E max.

One Ashe OnMay 18, 20173 votes

{quoted}

I think that makes sense. What if he splits points? Would that be better? It'd still be a nerf compared to before, but I mean compared to E max.

Still the same, if they would reduced the slow on the W or remove it, it would be a nice bet but idk.

EkyonKunMay 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I think that makes sense. What if he splits points? Would that be better? It'd still be a nerf compared to before, but I mean compared to E max.

Given the fact he no longer gets any flat bonuses anymore, I'd say just maxing E is best. Each point of W gives you +5 armor/MR per 100. Pretty useless early game if you ask me, but that's just my opinion. I'm sure the person with the "2ND MOST Mastery Points in NORTH AMERICA... and THE 14TH MOST in the WORLD FOR RAMMUS" thinks differently

junglerboy16May 18, 20171 votes

Actually, since his W scales off the resists you buy, you get a very minimal amount of benefit from maxing it anymore (5% more armor/MR on the scaling is all there is). At rank 1 it gives 20 +50% armor/MR, it doesn't affect the damage return at all (that's all just in your passive), and maxing it only gives you a tiny boost defensively. You get the most out of this ability when you stack resists for it to scale off, not from maxing it first.

E on the other hand gives a strong increase to the taunt duration (as always) but the bonus attack speed doubles from rank one to five (20% to 40%) and the attack speed buff refreshes as long as you are using any of your other abilities.

Basically E gives a substantial increase to your CC and DPS, while W gives a minute increase to durability.

One Ashe OnMay 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Actually, since his W scales off the resists you buy, you get a very minimal amount of benefit from maxing it anymore (5% more armor/MR on the scaling is all there is). At rank 1 it gives 20 +50% armor/MR, it doesn't affect the damage return at all (that's all just in your passive), and maxing it only gives you a tiny boost defensively. You get the most out of this ability when you stack resists for it to scale off, not from maxing it first.

E on the other hand gives a strong increase to the taunt duration (as always) but the bonus attack speed doubles from rank one to five (20% to 40%) and the attack speed buff refreshes as long as you are using any of your other abilities.

Basically E gives a substantial increase to your CC and DPS, while W gives a minute increase to durability.

For lane Rammus, maxing W is the way to go, not E, you won't get any DPS gain from maxing E, other than 1 second increase of taunt. After that you are sitting there waiting to get killed, old W was giving you resistance against harass and denied your opponent to just kill you straight on, that was old W acheived, it was dealing a good chunk of damage back , something the new W is lacking and W is the identity of Rammus, not his taunt.

junglerboy16May 18, 20175 votes

Yeah, but that's the OLD W, with the changes there is no purpose in maxing it anymore, since the measly increase in resists isn't gonna save you from getting kited, and at least while they're taunted you can attack them.

agbudarMay 18, 20171 votes

yea i play him solely in jungle for the last 2-3 seasons

One Ashe OnMay 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

yea i play him solely in jungle for the last 2-3 seasons

Well i played him jungle back then when it was possible to buy homeguard, it was somewhat decent because you could gank before anyone, but it's not possible anymore, and Rammus get outclassed by those early invade jungle such a Lee and Graves and now it's just even worst.

agbudarMay 18, 20171 votes

this rework his clearspeed with W+E is alot faster. i do use as much armor from runes as possible though so that might be part of it. flat armor marks + quints (21 armor) scaling armor seals (27armor at lvl 18) and scaling mr glyph's.

his clears for me with the exact same setup have gone up by about 20% of his previous clears and that makes all the difference.

GULAG 4 UMay 18, 201710 votes

I thought people hateed the rammus rework :O

SirGrey27May 18, 20177 votes

THE ONE'S WHOM ACTUALLY KNOW HOW TO PLAY RAMMUS HATE IT.

GULAG 4 UMay 18, 20176 votes

Doesn't OP know how to play rammus??

SirGrey27May 18, 20172 votes

HE JUST THINKS HE IS CUZ HE GOT THREE FREE WINS(CARRIED BY TEAMMATES) TODAY WHILE TESTING IT OUT

GULAG 4 UMay 18, 201724 votes

Do me a favor. Hit caps lock another time. Then we'll talk.

AgentBlackMay 18, 20172 votes

....SNAP

Sp33d Zer0May 18, 20173 votes

I HIT IT JUST FOR YOU!

GULAG 4 UMay 18, 20173 votes

WRONG WAY SCRUB!

Sp33d Zer0May 19, 20174 votes

THIS IS OUR TOWN SCRUB!

GULAG 4 UMay 19, 20171 votes

OUT OF MY JUNGLE!

SirGrey27May 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

WRONG WAY SCRUB!

This loser is just happy because he's a Yi main, rammus would shit on you before lol

GULAG 4 UMay 19, 20171 votes

I never said I was happy or not with the rammus rework lmao. I play onhit yi too, so rammus isn't a problem either way.

Well your arguments were shit anyways, and this one is too.

Sun Wu RyuumokuMay 18, 20172 votes

u think u know how to play it ??

SirGrey27May 18, 20172 votes

I know , that I know how to play him. The reworked kit doesn't fit his old style of play

PhifeMay 18, 20173 votes

roll into someone and taunt them, hope someone on your team follows up?

MrHaZeYoMay 17, 20173 votes

Honestly, other then the Q being a channel now, I don't mind it.

agbudarMay 17, 20172 votes

yea if he ends up performing badly (dont see how though) that would probably be the first thing they need to address.

MrHaZeYoMay 17, 20172 votes

Ya I agree, the dude below complaining about the slow, I get it, but you're spose to be a mega tank and eat skill shots for you're team so I mean the slow shouldn't kill him, plus the ult slow omg.

SirGrey27May 18, 20171 votes

Clearly you don't get it bud I have the 2ND MOST, YES the 2ND MOST Mastery Points in NORTH AMERICA... and THE 14TH MOST in the WORLD FOR RAMMUS http://championmasterylookup.derpthemeus.com/champion/?champion=33 <---------Proof

I know what rammus is used for more than any of you. Ya'll just "think" he's better now cuz you saw a link saying rammus got a rework. I bet you never played him before 7.10 and if you did you're probably one of the noobs that prefered to play AP rammus.

MrHaZeYoMay 18, 20173 votes

Lol. I played him support when I was noob in season 3 I played him top when he was meta their in S5 or 6 I played him all season this year prior to his rework to climb through Silver.

I don't have 1.6m on him but I have and do play him, thinking you know more just cause you've played him more is arrogant. If you were so good on him why haven't you used him to climb out of bronze? Half the builds I see on your OP.GG look iffy at best, I'm sure they work, they just don't ever look ideal. Each people have different ways of playing champions. The fact I could go through most of the game after his change before realizing it was patch day and he got his change tells me he'll be in a fine spot.

So clearly you don't get it bud, we really don't care what rank you are in NA with Rammus. I have enough games on him to understand the point of Rammus. Stop going around bragging about something, I said nice once, it's just old now. You'll either get used to his changes, cry about it, or find a new champion.

SirGrey27May 18, 20171 votes

Good job bud you played a champ, but that doesn't mean you know how to play him properly . Also, yes it does mean I know him better than you. I know everything from his base stats to his lore. If you had half the brain any gamer does you'd know that Riot has a terrible ranking system AND correction I'm Silver, nice try tho.

Also the fact you claim that you could play a whole game without barely noticing the changes makes your statement invalid as I noticed immediately a difference, now go be disrespectful elsewhere AS YOU SAID everyone has their way of playing the champion don't hate me for playing him better than you.

MrHaZeYoMay 18, 20173 votes

You play him better than me? Lol doubtful.

I've needed less games to know Rammus from top to bottom. I also know his base stats, his scaling per level, CDs, his lore, etc. 200 games was more than enough to learn them. I've had two bad games on him in over a year. Out of 30-40.

You think the ranking system sucks, that's your opinion, go get ranked, you'll prolly be bronze as this is a hard reset year. So my point is still correct until you go get ranked, also you're Bronze in Flex soooo.

SirGrey27May 18, 20171 votes

I KNOW I'M BETTER THAN YOU AT RAMMUS THAT'S NOT EVEN A QUESTION

MrHaZeYoMay 18, 20174 votes

No, you've just played him more

More != Better

Specially since I like you up until this patch knew everything I could possibly know about him lol.

SirGrey27May 18, 20171 votes

NO OFFENCE BUD BUT YOU'RE A TERRIBLE LIAR YOU DO REALIZE I CAN SEE ALL YOUR PLAYED GAMES WITH ALL THE CHAMPS YOU'VE PLAYED. YOU'RE NOT A SKILLED RAMMUS PLAYER. YOU MIGHT KNOW THE CHAMP BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU'RE GOOD WITH HIM.

MrHaZeYoMay 18, 20173 votes

As I can see yours too, that's why I'm pretty confident that even with your 1.6m I'm still better lol.

SirGrey27May 18, 20171 votes

LOL SURE BUD 41,637 POINTS GO BACK TO PLAYING AI BEFORE YOU TALK SHIT

MrHaZeYoMay 18, 20174 votes

Lol, that's just since champ mastery, he was my go to jungler prior. I also play a shit ton of champions, so I don't just spam a champion.

Again More != Better.

MrHaZeYoMay 18, 20174 votes

Proof?

I played him all the time in norms lol.

MrHaZeYoMay 18, 20174 votes

Still not seeing proof.

Let me prove you wrong.

http://imgur.com/e0y1ina

That's the eariest match history goes back. Granted I was still awful back than, it's proof enough I played him more than 5 times in 3-5 lol. So keep trying BUD.

Sp33d Zer0May 18, 20172 votes

https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=SirGrey27 Silver 4. 52% win rate. If you are good with rammus, why are you stuck so low?

You clearly just really enjoy the champion.

Deity ExcaliburMay 18, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Clearly you don't get it bud I have the 2ND MOST, YES the 2ND MOST Mastery Points in NORTH AMERICA... and THE 14TH MOST in the WORLD FOR RAMMUS http://championmasterylookup.derpthemeus.com/champion/?champion=33 <---------Proof

I know what rammus is used for more than any of you. Ya'll just "think" he's better now cuz you saw a link saying rammus got a rework. I bet you never played him before 7.10 and if you did you're probably one of the noobs that prefered to play AP rammus.

Over 1.6m mastery points on a champion and you're still silver? Clearly we cannot take your word for it since not even 1000 games are enough for you to learn Rammus and carry with him. I play rammus a fair bit and although the slow is annoying, it is needed to allow buffs to his character. Rammus 1shots adcarries mid to late game, if you'd give every buff he received rightnow without proper balance you'd just make a broken tank that will be pick/ban status. I say the slow on W is more than gracious for the other goodies he got. Although 60% slow is a little too much, his W should either be a channel with no cooldown for the slow it has or half the current slow amount.

SirGrey27May 18, 20171 votes

Lol clearly you haven't played with 1 champion as much as me, try being stuck in bronze with feeders and afk'er. Don't even start saying that I was stuck and placed there cuz its where i belonged cuz that's absolutely false. Anyways, as i keep saying I have the right to my own opinions and IF you you don't like them than fine but don't be a disrespectful individual and simply move along from my comments if you disagree with me fine, but that's you choice.

Deity ExcaliburMay 18, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Lol clearly you haven't played with 1 champion as much as me, try being stuck in bronze with feeders and afk'er. Don't even start saying that I was stuck and placed there cuz its where i belonged cuz that's absolutely false. Anyways, as i keep saying I have the right to my own opinions and IF you you don't like them than fine but don't be a disrespectful individual and simply move along from my comments if you disagree with me fine, but that's you choice.

First of all, I've played in bronze. It's stupidly easy to carry alone. Second, I've responded like that because you are being a dick to everyone who disagrees with you. You have your own opinion and others have theirs, you should respect everyone and not tell people to fuck off just because they have a different opinion from you. So no, I'm not going anywhere just because you feel offended. Learn how to argument first.

SirGrey27May 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

First of all, I've played in bronze. It's stupidly easy to carry alone. Second, I've responded like that because you are being a dick to everyone who disagrees with you. You have your own opinion and others have theirs, you should respect everyone and not tell people to fuck off just because they have a different opinion from you. So no, I'm not going anywhere just because you feel offended. Learn how to argument first.

I don't feel offended at all lol I think you're hilariously stupid. I have the right to my own opinion if you or others don't agree then fine thats your choice but I know a LOT more about rammus than you ever will.

Deity ExcaliburMay 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I don't feel offended at all lol I think you're hilariously stupid. I have the right to my own opinion if you or others don't agree then fine thats your choice but I know a LOT more about rammus than you ever will.

I do agree with you on that one, you might know about rammus than many people like myself BUT that does not give you the right to SHOVE into other throats about how you have 1.6m mastery on him and how only YOUR VIEWS matter. No. Everyone has a different opinion about the rework, you should just respect everybody else's first.

DralamanderMay 19, 20175 votes

{quoted}

Lol clearly you haven't played with 1 champion as much as me, try being stuck in bronze with feeders and afk'er. Don't even start saying that I was stuck and placed there cuz its where i belonged cuz that's absolutely false. Anyways, as i keep saying I have the right to my own opinions and IF you you don't like them than fine but don't be a disrespectful individual and simply move along from my comments if you disagree with me fine, but that's you choice.

Well im afraid to tell you that you need some things to learn with him, ive been maining rammus for 4 years already (not a OTP, i still play other champs), but i really got into a point where i knew excactly what Rammus needed.

First of all, playing with 1 champion doesn`t mean that you know how to play him, or maybe you do, but your way of controlling the game is not that good though.

You can`t complain about being stuck in bronze/silver due to your teammates holding you back, not if you are a Rammus main, It took me 1 month to climb from silver II to plat V when season 7 started, you are playing RAMMUS, one of the best early gankers in the game.

(Small comparison between your overall stats with rammus and mine:

http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/summoner/performance/rammus/euw/Dralamander http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/summoner/performance/rammus/na/SirGrey27

Now, coming back to the topic of this post, i don`t really know what to think about Rammus now, he eventually got some pretty good buffs, but i feel like every single buff that he got is Hard-countered by the fact that his slow is WAY to hard to deal with when you use your W.

First of all i`m gonna say the pros/cons that i have with rammus to get a clear idea of what i think about him:

Pros:

Higher movespeed growth in his Q (before the rework the growth from rammus movespeed growth was increasing by 10% the movespeed that Rammus had per second for 7 seconds)
Better scaling on his W Defensive stats, giving him a good Early and late game spike (I don`t know if you guys noticed but his w at lvl 1 already gives more than his old w, it scales off on levels 2-3 if you dont ahve any armor to scale)

PD; You actually return waaay more damage with your W+thornmail combo

Having an attacks speed steroid is probably every Rammus main wet dream, rammus relies a lot on auto attacks before he gets his thornmail, so giving him a chance to get a better use of your passive makes his jungle clear waaay better
Probably the best thing that happened to Rammus in a long time, his Ulti has less damage but it finally includes a slow, and 200% damage to towers, making him a very big thread on map pressure.

Cons:

Making his q a channeled spell: I don`t really mind having this on Rammus, i eventually feel that this one gives him a slightly higher skill-cap to work with, i can admit that before this rework Rammus was someone who had a very easy time ganking by just going in with his q and taunting his enemies to death, with this change you have to rely on dodging any tipe of cc in order to get to your target.
Taking away the armor reduction on his taunt: I dont know if you people knew, but when you taunted someone with your taunt at lvl 3-5, your autos were able to deal waaaaaaay more damage to the target (You were able to deal more damage by taunting someone without using your w than straight up hitting someone with the extra ad that your w at lvl 5 gave you).

Of course this was only applied to squishy targets, reducing 25 armor on a tank wont make that much of a difference.

The armor reduction on his taunt was what made Rammus one of the best responses to an AD team, even if that team was your team or the enemy team, by taunting someone you were able to make your whole team deal more damage to the taunted champion, so Rammus had a good synergy with an AD team.

60% slow on his W: This is the only one that i think is way too hard to deal with, i haven`t played league in a while, but when i heard that Rammus was getting a rework i started playing 1 game per day an that game was with Rammus.

I feel like his new W makes him weaker when it is active, yes, you get some next level tank stats when you activate it but, you can`t practically move while you have your w active.

I just saw that someone said that this was good because this made him a good tank to block skillshots and initiate fights, but let`s face it guys, this is solo q, and unless you are in high Diamond at least your team wont be standing right behind you in every single siege for you to tank the skillshots that are going to be thrown at your team, and even so, you are so slow that the enemy team can just easily just change their position and get an angle to hit your team instead of hitting you

(For example imagine an ezreal just moving to the side and hitting a q to your team diagonally, even if you have high resistances, you are gonna be so slow that in some case you wont be able to move in time to block his q).

I also think that after you engage on a teamfight (Q - e - w - r), you can`t really do much after it, because even if your ult now gets a slow , it is a stacking 8% slow vs an auto applied 60% slow, you wont be able to disrupt the enemy backline with your ultimate if your w is on, they will jsut simply move away from you and that will be it, and if you try to compensate the auto slow by not using your w while you are trying to disrupt the enemy backline, you are gonna be receiving a LOT of damage jsut to get to the enemy.

His new w can`t also work if you try just to peel your backline, even if you try to stick o your carries, you will be way slower than them to protect them.

After all said, my only conclussion for the rammus rework is that his new w is not gonna be used as much in teamfighting, your only chance of doing something with the new Rammus is to peel your backline without using your w, but applying your taunt and stacking slow of your ult to keep them safe from any enemy threat, and you will only become a Supportive tank to your team.

This makes me sad because before the rework Rammus was actually a good Carry tank , due to his ability to disrupt the enemy backline with all the AoE he had (Q , W , R), so not being able to be a hard carry with rammus makes me sad, but this is a Game when you have to adapt, and my only thoughts right now is that Rammus is gonna have to rely on hard splitpushing to pressure the map instead of being a gank machine.

PD: Sorry for the long post, just wanted to give my perception of what Rammus has become now [zombie-nunu-bummed]