I want a legit reason, the nerf doesn't hurt him super hard, as far as I can tell right now because it is to his E, but I want to know why. E was barely doing enough damage to make it a viable threat at any point in the game, so what is the purpose of this nerf other than to please people who complain about Yasuo without logic.
RiotMeddler22 votesWe think Yasuo's too strong and want to hit his early power more than his late, hence a shift of E damage from base to ratio. E's also a spell with really high utility, so can afford to lose some power while still being highly relevant and satisfying. Finally, we'd also like to make Q max a little more attractive, comparatively, as a build (better counterplay against lane opponents, so want a bit more trade off if he's maxing E).
EndlessSorcerer25 votesHave you considered targeting certain interactions in his kit rather than just adjusting his numbers? Personally, some of them just appear to exist to prevent Yasuo players from being punished when they misuse their abilities.
Windwall blocking abilities when cast in the opposite direction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OuN3HNCf0c
Ultimate positioning him outside of tower range (0:33 to 1:00) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YINsRtqipk&feature=youtu.be&list=PLsL7hqZ-1QGQhF_QV2ZyTm0Rp0DrhTuq1&t=33
Dreadlocks5 votesI agree with the first one, sometimes his windfall blocks more than it should given where it is placed.. the example you used is the most accurate and easiest to see. I have had times when I walked through the windfall and my abilities and autos were being stopped even though it was to my back... basically the "hitbox" is too large width wise.
However I don't agree with nerfing him in regards to the 2nd video. I think it's acceptable personally.
EndlessSorcerer4 votesHowever I don't agree with nerfing him in regards to the 2nd video. I think it's acceptable personally.
It is definitely a matter of debate. It just seems odd that Yasuo's ultimate provides such leniency while similar abilities (i.e. Lee Sin's Q2, Maokai's W, Master Yi's Q) don't.
Dreadlocks6 votesthose are also basic spells, yasuos is his ult. I agree ithat can be frustrating at time, but you gotta try to be unbiased and realize he suspends himself mid air too! so in a 1v1 scenario yes it can feel awful.. but so many times even in a counter gank etc he's up in the air and I'm just getting free hits on him. Essentially most spells either position you in front or behind a target for various reasons. Yasuos being his ult it makes a little more sense that it can do both. Akali use have hers in front, but recently they made it so she dashes through, more or less to help her proc her Q. I can't think of any other examples right now except for maybe shen? who I think goes in front now to act as a shield? could be wrong though, havnt played him much since the awful rework :)
Quepha4 votes[{quoted}](name=Ńø Çígâr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iOmlZrG1,comment-id=00040000000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-12T19:29:23.868+0000)
those are also basic spells, yasuos is his ult.
OK then let's talk about Zed, Warwick (old and new), J4, Vi, Rengar, Diana and Akali.
Don't forget all of those ultimates except Diana and Akali are on a MUCH longer cooldown than Yasuo's (30 seconds at 16 before cdr)
Dreadlocks4 votesNone of them suspend themselves in the air for the enemy to do damage to them.
Big Lincoln3 votesWarwick locks himself in place for 1.5 seconds
SoldSpirit1 votesHave you considered targeting certain interactions in his kit rather than just adjusting his numbers? Personally, some of them just appear to exist to prevent Yasuo players from being punished when they misuse their abilities.
Windwall blocking abilities when cast in the opposite direction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OuN3HNCf0c
Ultimate positioning him outside of tower range (0:33 to 1:00) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YINsRtqipk&feature=youtu.be&list=PLsL7hqZ-1QGQhF_QV2ZyTm0Rp0DrhTuq1&t=33
yasuos windwall starts behind him just like azirs ult, and that's why morganas q got blocked
EndlessSorcerer1 votesI'm well aware of how the ability functions.
However, I disagree with its current state.
EROTIC RAID BOSS1 votesit takes good timing to use it like that, I think that makes it pretty fair. snap timing with more lenient direction, or good direction with less timing, but not both at the same time.
I also think his ult is hard enough to use, with it needing a special condition to use unlike pretty much every other ult, that the tower thing isn't a big deal.
making yasuo harder to play for lower elo players or players newer to him just skews balance on him even more, makes him harder to balance overall. he's already a ridiculously difficult champ to learn
Aptest1 votesbeing "outplayed" because the enemy's strong abilities have "training wheels" feels like shit.
I don't think it's a big ask to make Yasuo have to aim. we have a lot of lenient, easy mechanics champions for people to play.
Mastering a difficult combo feels awesome. Taking away the easy-mode makes reaching mastery 7 all the more rewarding.
EROTIC RAID BOSS1 votesyasuo is already an especially difficult champion. you don't need to dial that up from 11 to 13 and make him someone only pro players can use at all.
Nameless Voice10 votesThis nerf will address his power level (considered to be too high), but still won't do anything about the fact that the vast majority of players find him unfun to play against and he will probably get a near-100% ban rate when 10 bans goes live.
Are there any plans to actually address the huge design issues in his kit?
FrightNight1 votesThat wasn't the main focus of this nerf but by making his e less attractive, people may start maxing q instead of e, which takes a lot of the outplay potential from yas. Dashing around like a madman will no longer be the way to go.
Nameless Voice2 votesEven if he no longer gets more than one point in E for most of the game, it still only has a half-second cooldown. How will the change prevent him from dashing around like a madman? He'll just deal less damage while doing so.
Bultz1 votesWe think Yasuo's too strong and want to hit his early power more than his late, hence a shift of E damage from base to ratio. E's also a spell with really high utility, so can afford to lose some power while still being highly relevant and satisfying. Finally, we'd also like to make Q max a little more attractive, comparatively, as a build (better counterplay against lane opponents, so want a bit more trade off if he's maxing E).
Thank you for replying. Just a few things, if you find the time to answer,
A) In which way do you believe him to be too strong? As far as I can tell his counters are doing very well. Who he counters are being countered. His win rate is below 50% or pretty near to it. Do you mean kit wise? Because champions like Ahri dog Yasuo there. Yasuo is super affected by cc, which most of his opponent laners have a version of. Plus he is close range and a melee champion, giving people ample time to react properly.
B) Why hit Yasuo's early game when plenty of other champions are far more powerful all game long? You can't deny mid lane mages are fairly strong themselves.
C) When Yasuo Ult's off of an allies knock up and has his q tornado active, the tornado is no longer usable after ulting off someone else's knock up. Meaning the animation is active and the hit box, but nothing can be thrown. Is this a glitch or on purpose?
Ra1uga2 votes[{quoted}](name=Darth Nero,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iOmlZrG1,comment-id=00040002,timestamp=2017-01-12T20:50:17.669+0000)
Thank you for replying. Just a few things, if you find the time to answer,
A) In which way do you believe him to be too strong? As far as I can tell his counters are doing very well. Who he counters are being countered. His win rate is below 50% or pretty near to it. Do you mean kit wise? Because champions like Ahri dog Yasuo there. Yasuo is super affected by cc, which most of his opponent laners have a version of. Plus he is close range and a melee champion, giving people ample time to react properly.
B) Why hit Yasuo's early game when plenty of other champions are far more powerful all game long? You can't deny mid lane mages are fairly strong themselves.
C) When Yasuo Ult's off of an allies knock up and has his q tornado active, the tornado is no longer usable after ulting off someone else's knock up. Meaning the animation is active and the hit box, but nothing can be thrown. Is this a glitch or on purpose?
Theroetically if you're a good enough yasuo you should never get hit by a skillshot.
TheLegendaryZero2 votesTheoretically if you're a good enough 
player you should never get hit by a skillshot. Or...
or 
or...
.
I think as long as your right mouse button is working you could theoretically evade any skillshot.
Reposer2 votesTheoretically if you have infinite minions and a 3s CD on WW, you should never get hit by a skillshot. It's not like you, at any point in time, have infinite dashes without some sort of pre-requisite. You may have windwall, but it has, a 3.75 second length, and at best, an 18 second CD.
Quepha2 votesDo you think more work will need to be done on Yasuo? He feels like he doesn't have any meaningful weaknesses that can't be covered by some part of his kit (dash out of skillshots, stand on top of windwall to ignore all ranged damage...)
PermabannedGaren2 votesWe think Yasuo's too strong and want to hit his early power more than his late, hence a shift of E damage from base to ratio. E's also a spell with really high utility, so can afford to lose some power while still being highly relevant and satisfying. Finally, we'd also like to make Q max a little more attractive, comparatively, as a build (better counterplay against lane opponents, so want a bit more trade off if he's maxing E).
This won't make maxing Q more attractive.
People don't just max E because it's so good. They max E because maxing Q gives jack diddly shit. Twenty extra base damage isn't a substantial increase at all. Yasuo is not good at stat-checking his opponents top lane and this nerf won't suddenly change that. If I could max Q and use it to beat the shit out of an Irelia, Darius, or Garen in lane just by standing my ground with them I would. He needs the mobility to even interact with his ranged opponents mid lane.
Also, by the way, based on what is he too strong? I recall someone on the Riot team harping on and on about how champion.gg isn't reliable and we should use lolalytics, which is far more reliable.
Well I do use lolalytics.
http://lolalytics.com/champion/Yasuo/
What here implies that he is too strong right now?
Reposer1 votesActually, at the moment, some of the top Yasuo players, at least vocal ones, are expecting top lane to be a Q max with the new nerfs, at least on case-by-case basis. In lanes where it's required to have mobility over damage, you'll still take E, and overall, it'll likely keep being the main thing to max. But with proper runes, you can go Q and, while not fully able to make up the damage lost on the E, you'll gain more reliable damage, since it's obviously up much more often.
Spicy Rice1 votesYeah, but that's going to mainly be in me lee matchups, where you need to stat check more than outplay.
In midlane/ranged matchups, I doubt anyone will be maxin q, just due to how much you need fast gapclosers in said lanes
Reposer1 votesWell yeah, but that's why I stated top lane as opposed to mid lane. Obviously exceptions apply, but in lanes against Melee there's a decent chance we see Q maxes with this nerf.
Of course, it is just a straight nerf, but I'm honestly ok with it, it'll hopefully lower the amount of bans and low-tier players of the champ, even if not by much.
Karn Bishop2 votesSo long as yasuo blocks abilities that he just should not be able to block nobody will ever enjoy playing vs him.
No reason his wind wall should be able to negate a nami ult given its visual looks and the nature of the ability.
I'll admit this one is debatable but it still should not block abilities that technically travel underground.
along with any champion that uses their physical body in a projectile fashion like orianna should not be deleted by wind wall, having the spell trigger/end at windwalls location? sure but just straight up deleting parts of a champions body? uh no.
raomar1 votesThat kinda leaves yasuo to be severely bad pick, as a decent amount of champs can already hard counter, he is very vulnerable to early ganks and ganks in general, and he can be easily killed when even hit with one cc. And his ultimate also leaves him suspended in the air for like a second too, doing that will make him way worse and his kit would honestly be worthless at that point and would need a full scale rework kinda like azir and kalista. Not saying WW isn't an annoying ability but it can be easy to bait out and you should have more cc tools after it goes away.
Karn Bishop2 votesFirst of all yasuo players will adapt and learn to handle those situations, as most champions must do, outside of a few champ playerbases like riven, leesin, vayne, yasuo who apparently cannot handle any changes even justified ones for game balance health, and yes mains of champions like morde and fiddle do laugh at you for it especially when you try to give your "justifications" against any nerfs.
Secondly i feel no pity for your 1 second of ult floating especially since it will actively try to place you out of tower range even if that means extending your champion beyond the range of your own ultimate, as shown HERE which is something that just should not be allowed at all.
raomar1 votesI never said that he doesn't need a rework but at the same time there are many ways to beat a yasuo apart from getting ganks. And also yasuo's WW is supposed to be his only defensive ability that cast at the right time can negate any cc or damage. But after that it's on cd for 28 seconds! If you can't take advantage of that then you can't say that yasuo is annoying and needs more counterplay. Honestly people don't know how to deal with him and they cry when they get beat and complain, the skill required and the timings put into yasuo's kit can make him extremely powerful, maybe too powerful. My point is, is that IMO people need to learn to stop crying and learn to deal with him, and not ask for nerfs when there is counterplay and he has a 49% win rate. (Idc about the nerfs, they are warranted in yasuo's state but lowering WW duration early would be a good enough nerf for people to stop complaining).
Karn Bishop2 votesThere is a way to beat him yes,( heavy jungler help ) the problem is it is frustrating to do so and vs yasuo with a brain impossible to accomplish, and if windwall were just a defensive tool i would not care but its an offensive tool more then anything else in how it is used because more often then not you cannot simply leave or walk away vs a yasuo and if you choose to fight? windwall and now all your abilities are gone and he comes flying in with E.
Shens anti damage shield is a defensive ability, wind wall is purely used for offensive and aggressive purposes and like annie he can just hold it in reserve like a stun because you can either throw out your abilities and have them windwalled then die or hold them and be stabbed to death and in either case it results in your death.
Then there is top lane yasuo a place that he should be unplayable in given how reliant on wind wall he is right? yet there he is pushing out champions like 
and even going even in lane vs heavy lane bullys like 
So do i have a problem with him overall? yes, do i think wind wall blocking things it should not is part of that problem? yes, do i think it is the only problem he has? not by a long shot or else those lane bullys would not go even vs him in lane.
Reposer2 votes is a weird case. Technically you'd think it shouldn't block it, but the workaround to that is to re-code Nami's ult, because there's no reason it shouldn't be able to be blocked, considering it's a projectile, but it does look odd when there's only a small part of it that gets walled and it just goes away. Unfortunately this is all a coding issue, and not something that can be fairly fixed without changing the way the spell works (ex. 
ultimate) or re-coding the projectiles.
is a projectile. It doesn't matter what the effects look like, unless they change the way that the ability works, and removes it as a projectile, it counts. Besides, it's still aboveground. The wheel isn't underground, so a wall should technically be able to block it. Same thing as people thinking 
shouldn't be blocked. If it travels through air or along the ground, it would be able to be stopped by a physical wall, and that's the thinking behind Windwalls or Braum shield.
is literally throwing a bandage. In every way that's a projectile. It doesn't matter that he pulls himself with it, it's a physical thing he tosses out, not him just moving his body. That's like saying you shouldn't let or or even 
hooks get blocked because they pull themselves.
LemurMonster2 votesWe think Yasuo's too strong and want to hit his early power more than his late, hence a shift of E damage from base to ratio. E's also a spell with really high utility, so can afford to lose some power while still being highly relevant and satisfying. Finally, we'd also like to make Q max a little more attractive, comparatively, as a build (better counterplay against lane opponents, so want a bit more trade off if he's maxing E).
I wish you guys looked into windfall as blocks more than it should. Personally I wish you nerf the duration it stays up because it makes it unfair to trade with him seeing the hitbox is too big & I hate when they use it to hide in it.
Spicy Rice1 votesYeah, most of us on r/yasuomains agree that the way to go to nerf yasuo (not saying I think he needs nerfs), would be to either remove the widening of windwall per rank up, or lowering the duration to 3 secs instead of 3.75
Monster Caulk2 votesMeddler please answer this very important. Yasuos e on the pbe currently is insanely clunky and very slow was this intended? or is it a bug? because this will ruin yasuo it makes him feel so horrible to play.
RiotMeddler4 votesNo intentional changes there as far as I know. Do you have a link to more details by any chance?
BloodMoonYas3 votesWhat brings you to think he's too strong? He is a high skill champion with a 50.5% win rate. He is ranked in the upper half in overall kills, while being ranked in the bottom 5% in overall assists/deaths in regards to his lane positions.
Are your metrics of "too strong" originating from player ban rates and Reddit LoL salt or measurable game impact?
Dessem1 votesYou provided the answer yourself.
He is a high skill champion with a 50.5% win rate.
High skill champions shouldn't have over 50% winrate, or near to it. Inexperienced players should lose enough to turn that number down.
Spicy Rice1 votesThe average yasuo player has 80+ games with him.
Pretty sure that the player base is experienced enough to keep his winrate around 50%
Linna Excel1 votesIsn't Yasuo supposed to fall off in late game though? That makes shifting his damage to ratio a little problematic.
Spicy Rice1 votesNo, if anything, his midgame is his weakest point
Negrodamuss1 votesI mean this post might be tricking some low elo players out there but every yasuo main knows maxing q hurts your mobility so hard that its pretty unviable. And even if you somehow make It viable to max q and abuse certain matchups because eventually you're going to nerf every other champion down to yasuo's new level, its going to feel even worse when some bronze kid in a melee matchup is getting q poke abused and doesn't know how to handle it. Yasuo is not even top 5 in either of the solo lanes by any metric you want to look at. Stop worrying about appealing to low elo players and find a way to stop ziggs (easily top 3 in mid lane and also top 2 at marksman) from destroying solo queue. Also fix the towers so that either bot lane turret also gets protection in the first couple minutes or that the protection is removed from all other towers too. Every high plat/low diamond game I play is more or less over in the first 15 minutes based on whose team's bot lane gets ganked by the junglers and roaming mid laners. Once LCS season starts reddit will be over Yasuo and start flaming Ziggs when he is 100% pick/ban.
Negrodamuss1 votesSince I'm pretty sure you deleted my last post, ill keep this one concise. Yasuo isn't even a top 5 pick in top or mid based on any metrics. His winrate decreases the higher elo you get which should be considered the sign for a healthy champion (i.e. the more you understand how the counter him the easier it is to win against him). Ziggs is currently a glaring problem in the game as he is easily both top 5 in both the marksman and mid lane role. Why not just give Ziggs a small nerf this patch and see if you need to adjust further from there, instead of worrying about reddit posts about yasuo. Its hard to hide your true intentions when the riot member who apparently came up with this nerf said "It was his duty to get yasuo nerfed at least once."
Neo Metalsonic2 votesWhat kind of silver players struggle with Yasuo and Darius?
May I remind you that they are never picked in competitive play? Darius is pretty useless considering you can just kite them and he should, I say should, die fast if he gets kited to the ADC. The problem with season 7 is that the ADC doesn't kill fast. Therefore yasuo who is squishy is not dying fast enough and therefore too strong. On the same note Darius is too strong because he can run into fights much easier since he takes less damage. If he took more damage it would be harder for Darius to apply stacks or to survive from his Q heal.
2 champions are just getting gutted because you're not addressing the huge fundamental problems of season 7 which is that junglers are way too powerful and ADC's too weak
Smug Shaco Main1 votes. Finally, we'd also like to make Q max a little more attractive
Then wouldn't it be best by making maxing his Q be a more desirable option? Therefore making people want to max Q because it's the better choice and not because his other abilities aren't as good.
Let's start with Q: The base damage on Yasuo's Q doesn't increase all that much per level, a measly 20 damage per rank, and the cooldown decreases based on attack speed, meaning by building your crit and damage, you get some CDR to go along with it.
At level 18, Yasuo only needs a little less than 70% bonus attack speed to reach the lowest cooldown possible on his Q, Phantom Dancer gives more than his attack speed growth total at level 18, meaning that he a fair amount of it's cooldown gone with one item. This brings his Q down to a 22~% CDR, and that's excluding his attack speed growth by the time he gets it. ^ didn't do exact math here
So why would I max an ability for 20 extra damage and... yeah... that's it
Don't forget the 175% damage on crits
TL;DR, Yasuo gets too much out of his Q at rank 1, therefore has no need to max it first.
Now his E: His E is a dash with a low cooldown per dash, but a high cooldown on single target dashing. Honestly this is a genius way of balancing it, as it makes it great in some circumstances, and not so great to just use in others.
But his E, despite this damage nerf, is still strong. Maxing E allows greater mobility, increased mix damage, and integrates well with his Q. Not to mention it works in conjunction with his passive and charges it as distance traveled. Not to mention it's got a lower cooldown allowing for more reliable last hitting, and dodging a skill shot in a trade or fight can make a huge difference in the outcome.
TL;DR Maxing his E does more for him than his Q
Perhaps by giving his Q a higher CD at rank 1 then lowering to where it is now by leveling it up would give Yasuo's incentive to put points into it.
His Q is his main damaging tool. and having smaller windows of opportunity may just balance it out well enough that Yasuo players have to choose between mobility and a consistent damage source.
I don't want to see my champion get nerfed into the ground by going at this the wrong way, and I personally believe the problem should be addressed directly at the reason why he doesn't need to max Q first.
P.S: If you hate Yasuo, pick 
, E W Q auto E(away) and you win the trade, if he keeps trying to trade with you, he'll be overextended as he tries to dash to catch up to you. Ward properly, and play somewhat safe till you hit 6 and you'll be golden.
>.>P.S.S: I'm sick of this "omg who didnt ban yas" followed by "gg" and want my champion to be more healthy so I can enjoy my champion more without seeing "OP Champ GG" every game. I've even had my own team ban Yasuo on me because I was red side's first pick.
Not joking, I've seen variations of this too many times, including some dodgers, afks (thanks remake for not making me have to sit through a 4v5), flamers (thanks mute button for obvious reasons), and more since about the middle of summer.
In fact, I just had a game the other day with a mid Akali who wanted to ban and not wanting to fight a Yasuo and I just sat there like "Why? You dominate that match-up so long as soon as you hit level 6".
NOW LET'S PLAY THE GAME "How many times did I make a mistake in here?" Let me know and I'll fix / change / answer / whatever as soon as I can.
N0rth Wind1 votesHey Meddler, is there any chance my boy Yasuo will be getting a "mini rework" in the foreseeable future? I mean, it's common knowledge that he's kinda toxic and held back in order to not break the game, so why not fix him up and let him shine as he should?
EndlessSorcerer8 votesMaxing E first is (and has been) standard for ages in the majority of match-ups in Platinum+.
This is because it reduces the CD (per-cast and per-target), provides mixed damage and is helps when last-hitting minions.
Zero Skill Tank7 votesObvious reason is too tune down Yasuos who max E. At lvl 9 it cuts 50 base damage, which means taking away 75 damage per trade. This is big, as it cuts from his magic damage, making it actually possible to itemize against Yasuo.
