Next class rework. divers tanks and skirmishers

MunchCrunchLunch··2 votes·1,413 views

also I don't exactly understand the difference between divers and skirmishers. they have too many overlapping things to consider them different in any meaningful way. actually I take that back

what I meant divers like Xin zhao and warwick are a lot similar to Jax and master yi. will these champions get included in diver rework? I mean considering tank and diver rework are up next. which leaves skirmishers a whole year and a half away from an update. master yi is currently weak. jax is pushed into the jungle position only. tryndmaere is somewhat toxic and needed a rework long time ago. ekko is the only ap skirmishers and he isn't really a skirmisher. yasuo has issues at the moment and need to be toned down (more than numbers). Riven has been very hard to balance for a very long time shes very similar to yasuo in the sense that she has a little too much control in lane and it comes down to her own mistakes.

yes divers do need more work than skirmishers. but I think combining both of them would be great. some divers need to be transfered to assassin position. nocturne eve diana are pretty much assasssins. Renekton hecarim warwick xin are more tanky fighters. in the sense of divers the real divers in the class are Vi , J4, wukong , ( Irelia should be listed as a skirmisher might change after rework). aatrox. Elise . champs that build as much defense as offensive on usual bases.

I think first you need to make very good distinction between divers and skirmishers and assassins before you work on them.

you need to define a very good role for divers skirmishers and assassins in the game. currently divers do a lot of similar things to assassin. many divers are too similar to skirmishers. a bunch of stat check champions that include

irelia , jax, yi, xin zhao , warwick , tryndamere these 6 champions are more similar to each other than they are to other champions in their own class. they are currently a walking stick of stats that either kill you or die trying. mainly autto attack melee carries. thats what I want to call them. yasuo isn't really a true melee carry because he depends a lot on mobility and set up from team mates hes more of a caster carry hybrid. they don't have much of any set up other than diving you. I know they split push but splitpushing is an uninteractive way to win the game and has no control on champion interactions in which what classes are based on.

yasuo and riven and fiora are 3 champions that are similar to each other. they are hybrid / aa based / caster champions that depend on abilities to set up their potential to do damage with auto attacks mixed into things.

vi j4 hecarim lee sin wukong nocturne are prob the true divers in the word's sense

the rest are really just a mess of abilities that don't go well together. you got the bruiser/mage/assassin diana. Renekton the juggernaut/fighter/diver/caster/assassin. elise is really weird champion in general. i don't know maybe assassin. pantheon is just designed to be painful. he isn't really a fighter a diver or an assassin he just does straight up damage without any thought put into his design.

eve is like elise. very weirdly designed assassin. ekko is a mess of a fighter and an assassin.

assassins skirmishers and divers are so fucking messy. tanks have clear goals and things they do. so do juggernauts. so do mages and marskman so does enchanters and disruptors and marskman .

or just put in the work and give these melee stat sticks some actual depth in their design. most of them are extremely old and lazy. just include burst build melee champs as "Assassins" and include semi bruiser ones as "fighters" there is no point to have all of that meaningful title on them.

just make them more distinctive.

18 Comments

NightmareAmazoX2 votes

They are prime examples of divers: Vi MonkeyKing

They are prime examples of Skirmishers: Ekko Yasuo

Ralanr1 votes

Poppy is a Warden.

NightmareAmazoX1 votes

i thought she was a vanguard?

Anyways i'll change it.

Ralanr1 votes

She's more built around peeling and anti diving. Vanguards usually have AoE CC engage.

NightmareAmazoX1 votes

She has an engage, disengage, AoE CC , She is definitely a vanguard, If she isn't a vanguard then who is according to you?

Ralanr1 votes

A Warden because while her engage is single targeted, her peel and disengagement tools (W and ult) can effect multiple opponents at a time.

NightmareAmazoX1 votes

Who the hell is a vanguard then? Nautilus ?

Ralanr3 votes

Yes.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/3A5uuBw7-champion-subclass-list

This list is as accurate as we have. Though Riot admits they want to push Rek'sai into more of a diver.

datfatguy1 votes

What exactly does a skirmisher do? I hear that term a lot but I have no clue what it means.

Revali1 votes

Think baby teamfights, 2v2s 3v3's etc. not full blown 5v5's

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

most of skirmishers are absolute shit outside of 1v1s. champs that excel in skirmishes are ones with CC and some sort of team fight potential to begin with.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

skirmisher are the best duellist (1v1) and great for little fight (contrary to a team fight )

Anonagon1 votes

skirmisher is the modern term for a melee carry, basically.

They generally have high DPS, strong consistent mobility (a la Yasuo E, Fiora Q), and powerful cooldown gated defensive tools that allow them to get away with squishy builds.

Sahn Uzal1 votes

Divers are better at getting to the backline, and (usually) are tankier than Skirmishers Skirmishers have harder time getting into a fight, are likely to kill tanks and squishies alike and have a strong but situational defensive tool (Because they're usually build squishier than Divers) Jax E, Master Yi's Q/W, Yasuo's Windwall, Fiora's W are some good examples. Vi, Xin Zhao, Warwick etc have an easier time getting ''in there'' than a Yi or Fiora would, and are probably tankier, but Vi, Xin and WW won't get through a tank nearly as fast or easily as a Yi or Fiora would.

That's why I don't think Yasuo should be able to ult off allied knockups, it makes his unreliable tool of getting to the enemy backline too reliable, just to mention it

Shifue Draven1 votes

Well they did state divers are coming up after the assassins and they need it vi is one of the few in a good place wukong and j4 can be good if you know how to handle them but also depends on if you got the right elements in play they ride that feast or famine line hard.

NightmareAmazoX1 votes

The ones who are confirmed are these guys: Pantheon XinZhao Aatrox Volibear

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

no MonkeyKing isnt it a so good place... but anyway Wukong will be rework, its comfirmed

Anonagon1 votes

You need to work on making your threads more concise and readable. Focus your thoughts.

Divers and Skirmisher are fairly distinct, even if they both serve the same general role on a team (melee physical damage dealers).

Divers have powerful cooldown gated mobility tools, that either have huge reach or are targeted, often with CC attached. Skirmishers on the other hand have lower cooldown mobility spells with much less reachance.

Skirmishers have powerful cooldown gated defensive tools that allow them to generally build squshier than divers (though build is not a defining characteristic of either class - some divers build full damage and skirmishers can build more bruisery). On the other hand, Divers have defensive tools that are overall weaker or more persistent, or none at all.

Those are the primary differentiators between divers and skirmishers. They are distinct. As for a potential class update, skirmishers don't need one. The only ones that need any kind of update are beyond the scope of a class update. Aside from the three classic "right click to win" champions, Skirmishers are actually the best class in terms of having well designed kits with counterplay and unique reasons to pick each champion over the others.

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