Why Kalista suffers so much

Teémò · 2016-09-25T19:23:47.407Z

We can obviously say that she's relies on her support , but that's not the reason. The game suffers from insane amounts of damage increases. champs are getting 11.5-12.5 % damage increase from masteries penetration and of the bottom masteries which that % goes up with 8% damage dragons. This may not sound like it's much of a big deal. but when you consider that Kalista does 90% ad on her autos she's losing a great deal of the damage. Not only that she was created for long extended fights to kill with her rend. Slows absolutely cripple kalista being exhausted means not just attack speed and damage reduction, but movement reduction too. She becomes easily hit by cc and it will be the death of her. Rip withered and nasus ghost xD If your lucky enough to get matched against a quinn or graves you mise well dodge because your help less. Her W gives false security if enemy players are coming unless you have two ghost patrolling to give that area no blind spot

TeémòSep 25, 20162 votes

I think it's kinda fine. tier 3 boots don't exist so that hurts her distance. It's what makes her unique though I'd really hate to see her end up like cassiopeia and go from an amazing ap carry to a niche against dashes.

Though that what it's like as kalista. I think she's competing with sion for most played champion without a skin Because unless you bought her before she went bad You wouldn't feel a need to buy her skins.

Lucky MonikerSep 26, 20161 votes

Off topic here, I can say as someone who plays sion a lot, it's because his skins suck. I love buying skins for my favorites and I have been known to buy skins for champs I play 1/4 as much as sion, but all of his skins suck the D

Except for mecha, but I don't like the skin enough to drop $20 on it

AptestSep 25, 20165 votes

{quoted}

...no other reason than her passive...

be honest enough to also say that her passive is crazy strong. not just that, but it outright breaks certain opponents' kits.

IMHO Kalista is a good example of "insta gib her or lose to her" design. because her passive negates any prolonged sticking to her.

AstôlfoSep 25, 201614 votes

Yes that's the point. Her passive is so ridiculously strong that it forces her to be kept in a garbage-tier state otherwise.

Masala ChaiSep 25, 20161 votes

I'm going to interject this and say you are wrong, and removing her passive will not happen.

Her animations are rigged to her passive, this includes her Auto Attack Animation WHILE NOT dashing, Riot will need to completely reanimate her as she has many animations that would need to be removed and removed. She would need an entire VGU, which basically would Karma/ Fiora rework Kalista because...

Removing Martial Poise would make her need to occupy a different niche, in this case a Poke Comp or Protect the Carry Comp , as she has no way to peel for herself outside of Fate's Call which needs a teammate to be castable. Her current base stats, ranges, and abilities do not support a Poke Comp and would then be a worse copy of Varus, the same way Aatrox is a worse version of Tryndamere. In a Protect the Carry comp, however she would be going back to the "same old Lucian vs Graves which one is better " situation, this time with Kog'Maw as there would be a great overlap within both of their niches.
Because of this the rest of her basic abilities would need DRASTIC changes, which is what happened throughout the Fiora rework and many old Fiora players felt as if she was simply deleted and a new champion was released in her stead.
Kalista would remain to be a utility carry, but no longer plays like her former self (like Karma) and leaves to a very dissatisfied Kalista playerbase.

Pretty much every single Attack Damage Carry has a method of A. Peeling for themself, B. Escaping danger with a dash or jump, C. Speed Boost to run.

Ashe Frost Shot (P) and Enchanted Crystal Arrow (R) Caitlyn Yordle Snap Trap (W) and 90- Caliber Net (E) Corki Valkyrie (W) Draven Blood Rush (W) and Stand Aside (E) Ezreal Arcane Shift (E) Jhin Whisper (P) and Deadly Flourish (W) Jinx FLAME CHOMPERS! (E) KogMaw Void Ooze (E) Lucian Ardent Blaze (W) and Relentless Pursuit (E) MissFortune Strut (W) and Make it Rain! (E) Quinn Heightened Senses (W), Vault (E), and Behind Enemy Lines (R) Sivir Fleet of Foot (P), Spell Shield (E), On The Hunt (R) Tristana Rocket Jump (W) and Buster Shot (R) Twitch Ambush (Q) and Venom Cask (W) Varus That AoE slow thingy (W) and Chain of Corruption (R) Vayne Tumble (Q), Condemn (E), and Final Hour (R)

This doesn't even count movement speed boosts gained from item 3044 item 3078 item 3071 Kalista's problem (like many of the other problem/ irritating champions such as Ekko Elise LeeSin Yasuo ) is her absolutely disgusting utility.

Sentinel's active made it so much easier for your jungler to counterjungle the enemy. As Sentinels lasted for 7 laps (currently last for 3) they would be bound to know when your enemy had cleared a camp and of their general prescence. Sentinels can also permaward Epic Monsters (Dragon, Rift Herald and Baron Nashor)

Sentinel (W)'s passive made trades in general nearly unwinnable vs Kalista when you add Rend and Pierce it becomes insanely ridiculous. The damage has since been over halved in her most recent nerfs from release.

Rend (E) has made it nigh impossible for the enemy team to steal major objectives such as Baron or Dragon unless you were Nunu.

Fate's Call (R) gives supports the ability to do whatever the fuck they want and likely live to tell the tale with Fate's Call, get a free Malphite ultimate with said Fate's Call, the cast range has been nerfed in her most recent set.

If anything, I would remove her ultimate over her passive.

SociopathFriendSep 26, 20161 votes

My OCD is ticking terribly- could you add how Twitch and Varus have slows on their Ws?

DroogzySep 26, 20161 votes

I get that all ADC have SOME form of self peel, but it doesn't mean that said self peel needs to be a ghost hopping like a fucking kangaroo everywhere.

You said it yourself if the passive was removed, she'd need to be reworked/powershifted. That's exactly what needs to happen with her. Her kit simply can not exist in its current state in a healthy dimension.

Kalista to date, is the only champion whom I literally have no idea wtf Riot was thinking when they ok'ed her for release, I can accept some of the ones the community hate like Zed, Azir, and Yasuo, but her? She's one of the few champions whom just by looking at her spotlight, you could tell she was going to be a huge problem. Especially considering they preach that champion kit design shouldn't negate an entire class of other champion by virtue of their existence on the rift.. Yet Kalista does exactly that if she's even slightly strong.

Masala ChaiSep 26, 20161 votes

Jhin with sufficient attack speed can kite around bruisers arguably a lot better than Kalista can

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spNOGt-oOwY

Notice that he completely negates Warwick's Blood Scent and Dead Man's Plate as he kites Warwick around. You guys say Jhin is the epitome of good champion design? There you go. Missing health executes, speed boosts and objective control.

And if you really want her passive to be removed, then you will have another case of Fiora or Karma rework. Those champions don't play at all like their pre-rework states, and the Boards are almost always against changes like this. THIS IS EXACTLY WHY RIOT WON'T REMOVE MARTIAL POISE.

If we rework her, then with her current kit, she'll either be occupying the same problem that Lucian and Graves had. Their kits played exactly the same so she'll occupy the exact same niche as Kog'Maw and Varus. Her kit doesn't synergize well with a poke comp as her ranges are mediocre, but even if they were increased then we'd have the same issue that caused Graves to be reworked.

DroogzySep 26, 20161 votes

I encourage you to make a poll with the title being would you be happy or sad to see Kalista's martial poise removed, I'm sure many people would be ecstatic to see it go.

If Race car Jhin is able to kite better then Kalista, why isn't it as popular as his AD/penetration build? The answer is the video you just showed, ironically speaking.

You show a video of race car Jhin; the same Jhin with the scoreline of 6/16/14? At 46 minutes into a game, ergo, ADC's strongest point.

You show a relatively new champion kiting a champion who is an ancient relic of the past who doesn't have the kit to be strong in today's meta for a reason hence why he's the next reworked champion. But yes, its a mystery as to how WW wasn't able to keep with him.

I don't think I really need to go any further then that.

But I'll entertain this anyways:

Not only that, Jhin needs to build into an incredibly specific path to be able to do that, which gimps his overall damage significantly. Had he gone the normal path build, WW would have been dead in a quarter of the time it took for him to kill him as race car Jhin. Jhin needs to make a decision with the way he builds: if he wants damage, AD. If he wants kiting, AS.

You talk about how he has missing health executes, speed boosts, and objective control. What you fail to mention though he needs to invest into two different stats with two very different build paths if he wants health execute or if he wants kiting.

If he gets AS, yes he has health execute, but its pretty pathetic without building AD, your own video even shows how bad the execute is without AD.

As for objective control, not sure where this comes from, other ADC has much higher kill times on all objectives then he does. Towers, Tristana and Jinx both are leagues better than he is. Neutral objectives, Kog'Maw, Kalista, and Vayne are again, leagues better than he is.

Kalista also needs AS to increase her kiting ability, but AS not only has synergies with her kiting, it also has synergies with her damage. If she wants damage, she gets AS. If she wants kiting, she still gets AS.

See the problem and difference?

Kalista being reworked vs Karma and Fiora is apples to oranges to pears.

No one wanted Karma to be reworked, her reworked arguably left her in a worst state with nothing gained from it.

People disliked Fiora for two reasons: her ultimate felt as if it was out of place on a duelist kit and on her release, she was incredibly overbearing as a bruiser.

As it stands. no one outside of those that play her likes her kit. Even then, many people who main her have acknowledged there's a fundamental problem with her design. No one is arguing for her to keep her current playstyle, rather its the opposite, her current play style needs to be eradicated in order for her to be healthy. Kalista's kit will never be buffed in its current form and tied to the issue being her passive from start to finish in every game, invalidates a large number of champions.

Why Kalista suffers so much

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