Elo hell is a real place. I've been there. I've seen things. Please advise on a good way to carry

Risen29··6 votes·1,446 views

I had a bad string of luck with my placements and I'm getting placed with people who are of much lower skill than I get matched with in normal soloque. The skill difference is extremely visible. Champions and strategies that normally work for me don't work in this elo.

I say it's elo hell because I have been steadily increasing my winrate in normals, and it seems like the more I win the more i keep winning. I believe this is because as I get paired more with people who are able to not make major mistakes, my individual contributions start to matter more. Especially since I prefer champions that work best within the context of a competent team, rather than champions that try to be the hero and carry the game all by themselves.

At this new low elo I'm dealing with in ranked, my best efforts are often drowned out by a team that feeds 10 times before the six minute mark, or a team that feeds 18 times before the 20 minute mark. The normal things I am use to doing to win just don't work, but I don't normally play champions that try to outright hard carry but rather help my team carry.

I've tried watching guides and playing top tier champions that people recommend for low elo, or champions that have high winrates.

What I've tried:

Sona Sona. I had such a great winstreak with her in soloque that I thought it would be a sure thing for my placement games. Nope. A string of losses instead. I'm not sure why. I think at my normal elo my teammates are competent enough that they benefit from my support. Quinn Quinn top. Mixed results. If I can get a gank or win lane then I can snowball and split push to victory. Sometimes I can use split push to come back from a sure defeat. But I don't feel like she's reliable enough if I get counterpicked in top lane. And if I don't snowball early or mid game then I usually struggle during the teamfight deathball stage because my teams don't really understand what split pushing is so they try to attack a tower 4vs5 while I'm taking down a tower elsewhere, instead of falling back and buying me time. Viktor Viktor. One of my favorites. The problem is, like many of my favorites, it's kind of a waste of time trying to play them if I don't have a semi-dependable team. Yeah I can hold my lane. I can make some clutch plays in teamfights. But my ability to carry them is limited if they can't get through the laning phase without feeding, aren't decent teamfighters, and don't know how to exploit teamfight wins. Sejuani Sejuani. Above average results. Where I usually fall off is either my team feeds before I can even get some ganks off, or it goes to late game and I don't feel like I can carry my team anymore because my damage falls off. This is actually a problem in my normal elo too. AurelionSol Aurelion Sol Jungle. I've had some good success with this in normals, but haven't been trying it much at this elo because sometimes nobody else wants to go tank. And I feel like Sol struggles if my team is feeding too early to the enemy jungle. His ganks depend too much on having your team follow up, until later when you get some items. The advantage of him over some other choices is that he has strong teamfight late game which has won me many games as I do lots of AoE and CC. I also am not sure how to itemize at this elo, though, because I can't just build tanky and wait to get my damage until later. Anivia I find I do better on viktor because of his burst. I don't feel like anivia does enough damage in comparison to reliably turn around team fights at this elo, and I feel like her utility and CC is not really capitalized on well enough by my teams.

My problem is I'm doing much better with all of these champions in normal games, and often the reason is because I have smarter teams to play around. I think I need to change what I'm playing for this elo.

I just don't know what kind of champions I should learn to play that can carry even if my team is terrible. It seems like I need a combination of several factors:

  1. The ability to get early kills and ganks, so that I can start snowballing before the smurfs on the other team start snowballing into my team.
  2. The ability to also carry late game, because these teams never finish out games when they have advantages.
  3. Strong 1vs1 ability. Preferably both tanky and with damage. Because if you go all damage you start to be at risk of depending on your team to be your frontline and peel.
  4. Can either jungle, top, or mid, where they will have the most ability to influence the game early.

Is that an accurate assessment? If not, why? If so, what champions would fit that description?

35 Comments

jaymc11303 votes

There is only 1 way to combat extreme bad luck in a very small sample size (Elo Hell):

Increase the sample size.

For best results play only your best champ and role for as long as possible as this further decreases the luck factor. You can also start to OP.GG every teammate every match to determine when you have been paired poorly with trolls, tilted players, intentional feeders, and duos with a sub 60% win rate. Dodge those matches. Dodges cost you nothing but time, MMR is all that matters below D1, LP is literally a useless feature.

AgentBlack2 votes

I placed Bronze I, fought tooth and nail to get silver V, then breezed into gold VI. It's amazing how much more you, personally, can accomplish when you can count on your team to be on board. But then I go back and play with my Bronze friends. I go Jinx ADC, Syndra mid, Jayce top, and try to hard carry. I get fed, it's not enough, we lose. Playing well myself will not make me team better.

Some tips for carrying in Bronze...

Vision Nobody places, denies or avoids vision in Bronze. If you're a support or jungler, get a Sighstone and roam. Ward all the obvious ganking routes because the other jungler doesn't know they're obvious. Spam ping every enemy Champion that pops up on the minimap, because your team doesn't see them. If you're an assassin, find likely hiding spots and just wait to kill someone. Wait a full minute if you have to. They'll come, they won't suspect you're there, and they won't check.

Teamfights ...Are asking for disaster and should be prevented. Choose Champions with poke and disengage, and whittle the other team down. When the other team forces a sloppy engage out of boredom or desperation, punish them for it.

Make Picks Instead Bronze players don't wait. If you're facing off 5v5, someone's gonna wander off to push a lane or farm the jungle. Find that person and kill them. When a fight happens somewhere, every player's gonna converge on it looking for action. Kill them on their way to the fight, because they're watching it instead of their Champion.

Take Towers This is huge. Bronze players don't keep track of players pushing waves, waves self-pushing, tower health, anything. If something happens mid and you know players will be drawn there, go top, hard push, take a tower. Recall before they find you. Rinse and repeat.

Champions for Bronze Annie: Bronze players don't assess threat well. Take Ignite, force favorable trades with your stun, then Flash and blow them up once they're low enough. You can usually do this once before 6 and immediately again after, and then again when Ignite comes back up. Use your lead to make picks and split push. When you split push, instagib the first person who shows up and use Tibbers to take the tower. If two people show up, walk past the tanky one, kill the squishy one, and then either run or fight. You've already won, but spam ping a different objective for your team and maybe you'll get even more out of it.

Twitch: there are two kinds of Bronze ADC. The one's who go super aggro all the time for kills, and the one's who try and fail to farm. In either case, focus on beating their farm and stealth kill them at 6. Look for opportunities throughout laning to roam and kill their mid or jungler. They won't have wards up, and your lane won't ping missing. When you hit 3 items, split push and use your invisibility to either kill whoever comes or escape. When teamfighting is necessary, stay way back out of assassination range and kill the inevitably clumped Bronze players with your ult.

I could go on, but this is already too long.

TL;DR - Don't play around your teammates being good. Punish the other team for being bad.

Amasa Delano1 votes

Thank you. These are fantastic tips.

LappaDanielson2 votes

Smurf ign- dadpleaseithurts

Add me and ill shoot you a chat about stuff to do, i followed some solid tips back when i was gold 4 ish and now i can get an account to diamond pretty easy

jo99011 votes

I don't have any advice but i felt the need to comment because you are one of the few people who would take A Sol jg.

Risen291 votes

{quoted}

I don't have any advice but i felt the need to comment because you are one of the few people who would take A Sol jg.

He is one of the highest winrate junglers according to championgg. I actually have a very good winrate with him in normals. I just haven't wanted to try him much in ranked yet because I don't know if he'll work out the same.

jo99011 votes

Yeah, I've heard he has a high winrate. From my limited experience in ranked, he works out well, as long as your team doesn't feed early on, and they actually help during a gank.

Mojihito6661 votes

Take snowballing champs and kill them all.

The only way to be sure.

Alternatively , pick Trynda or so and push lane up to nexus.

Ceapi1 votes

Well let me tell you my opinion. The best thing you can do by your description is to find someone in your skill bracket that you think will help you win games and duo.I don't mean to start begging higher elo players but people you think you could improve with.

As far as champions go, pick late game carries if you can stall out the games because that actually works since people don't know how to end the game even the smurfs(Gangplank Vayne Jinx Kassadin -I know Kassadin sounds weird but I had success with him a lot), or pick snowballing champions like assassins to win early(this didn't work so well for me since is hard to close a game, but it can work), or just play bruisers and kill the threats in teamfights will also being able to split push.This of course this all depends on how hard you can win your lane and how well you understand the game which brings me to my next point.

Sorry to say this but if you can't win it means you did not improve enough.I don't mean just mechanically but also learning the flow of the game and how to take the game and understand what you need to do in that game to win, is hard for me to explain because I learned this trough experience.I don't want to be mean but the best way to get out is to improve massively over the people in your elo.

TL DR:Doesn't really matter what you play as long as you can make a lead and use it to win the game, also always look to improve even if some games are out of your hand sometimes. Hope it helped.(Sorry for any bad english).

Vaelentino1 votes

add me in game, I need another dependable person to play ranked with... I can go on streaks that take me from 0lp b3 to 60ish lp b1 then get trolled out the door with nothing but unskilled teams. I'm normally queing for mid top and do my best to carry...

Risen291 votes

Conceptually I understand snowballing or farming up to carry late game, but am unsure what champions are the best for this if I were to invest time in learning them. Because they aren't the kinds of champions I typically gravitate towards.

I actually have done pretty well with Vayne, so I might try her more in normals and see where it takes me. My only concern is whether or not I'll be able to reliably farm up before my team feeds. Which is why I am leaning more towards early snowballers who also have late game power. Most of the advice I've been coming across says adc is the worst role to try to carry low elo with because it is too team dependent. That's also why I haven't tried Jinx.

I love kassadin but I just don't have much success with him in normals unless I can snowball early.

Gangplank does sound like he could fit the bill, but after his nerfs I don't see much of him anymore. I wonder if it's much harder to get that snowball rolling. I would play him a lot more if he were the old gangplank. I just don't enjoy the constant barrel minigame. but I will try him and see how it goes.

statelesskiller1 votes

all these champs are bad. not bad for carrying but bad for playing.

as a player to league of legends you need simple champs. that do simple things. in a simple way

as a top main my recommendation for ANYONE that wants to climb is

Nasus because you learn how to relax in lane. survive. and farm. and then become a late game monster. or a splitpushing beast. either way will win you games. and as nasus you cant get shut down as long as you can farm. this is a champion that has pushed me all the way from bronze 1 where i origionally placed to gold 1. and with his help (and gangplank) im GOING to get into plat. TwistedFate he teaches to look at the map and get other lanes ahead. he teaches pressure and and the power of farming Vladimir teaches sustain and poke in lane. as well as the importance of getting the enemy tower down

but thats for newbs.

these are the champs i recomend for top lane carry

Trundle because trundle counters every single melee top laner in the game. Nasus nasus because again. you cant shut down nasus unless you stop him from farming. and im REALLY good at farming Gangplank gangplank. a later game hyper carry that when played properly can solo carry games like no bodies business (and with the nerfs he isnt getting banned as much even though they did nothing to affect that late game hypercarry) Darius darius. a juggernaut top laner that can win most matchups if played correct. and in bronze 1 where you are. plenty of people there have no idea how to fight darius so this should be free elo for you

stop playing viktor. stop playing sol stop playing anivia. play NOTHING, that requires a certain high level of performance. because the more complex the champion is the more likely you are to fuck up. CONSISTENCY BEATS THIS ALL THE TIME.

a simple champion. learn how to play that simple champ. learn how to play the game. and combine it and you will climb. i didnt start climbing till i watched trick2g because he taught me fundamentals that i didnt think about. 3 waves of minions equals a kill for example. why try and kill my laner and risk fucking my laning phase when i can chill and get the same amount gold with 3 waves of minions? why tp bot for a gank when the enemy laner is missing when i can just take his tower.

EDIT: Kayle also protip. play this bitch. can go top mid jungle hell why not adc while your at it. support also. late game monster. early game lane bully. can 1v1 anything in the game except maybe tryndamere

statelesskiller1 votes

okay okay okay. no

your problem is that you dont have a fundamental understanding of how the game works. so im going to make a offer to you if your willing to accept. i will spectate you. and watch what you do. and i will explain what your fucking up in and how to improve. preferably top lane

if you want of course. and when we can set up a time

Iceember1 votes

{quoted}

EDIT: Kayle also protip. play this bitch. can go top mid jungle hell why not adc while your at it. support also. late game monster. early game lane bully. can 1v1 anything in the game except maybe tryndamere

I mean pretty well any champion with on-demand stealth can ruin a Kayle. You just utilise it when she hits ult and ezpz 1v1s.

statelesskiller1 votes

item 2043 on demand counter to on demand stealth

Iceember1 votes

Kayle ult lasts how long max rank though? 2s? (Legit I don't know) even someone like Vayne just needs to break that line of sight and flow and suddenly Kayle is scrambling. Plus we'll see how riot's "new stealth system" will work in conjunction to pinks. This may mean auto attack reliant champions such as Kayle, Yi, and Jax won't be as popular in S7.

statelesskiller1 votes

its like a second and a half. no long but with how much damage she vomits out thats enough to win a fight.

im looking forward to the new stealth system. particularly because the bane of my existence as a top main vayne. and the adc rengar that is twitch are both high on my "i hate your guts" list. i hope they somehow make it less toxic

Iceember1 votes

Idk. The stealth system IMO will either be really good or really bad. If they attempt to blanket fix all stealth to make champions like Rengar and Talon healthier it will hurt champions that have a more limited stealth such as Vayne, Akali, and Teemo. All I am hoping is that with this new system is that Riot keeps in mind that not all champions with stealth have access to it in the same way as those that are hyper mobile with it.

Risen291 votes

You're welcome to spectate me some time, but I never said I didn't have room for improvement. I only said I know I should be higher because I get placed with higher elo people regularly in normals (high silver, low gold), and have no trouble holding my own in those situations with champions I am familiar with. Had I picked some better champions for my placements, I'm sure I'd be somewhere in silver right now.

I wouldn't call gangplank a simple champion. But I have started playing him in normals now to see if he'll work for me.

I did try Kayle in normals and had a lot of success, but I found I didn't like how dependant I was on her ultimate in order to carry late game. There's not a lot of margin for error - which would be fine if I had a good team, but if I'm the only one carrying then my death usually leads to a teamwipe and destroyed base. It's worth a try though.

I tried Vlad while he was free but had a horrible first couple experiences.

TF is a possibility, but probably not a this elo because they don't know how to close out games and he will fall off at some point. They can't really be expected to take advantage of the early ganks and global midgame plays that TF can make.

Trundle appeals to me for his CC, but I don't have him. Don't have Darius. Not sure how well I'd do with him yet.

I'll try Nasus at some point. Worth a try. I think I assumed at this elo you need to be able to win lane and help out the rest of the map, otherwise it's a coin flip whether or not you can salvage it later. I still question whether or not Nasus is the best to carry out of bronze I, but I'll get him with IP in the near future and try him out.

A Doorknob1 votes

Ranking system is in a bad place right now. My opinion. For instance, people above 600 wins in normal shouldn't be allowed to even be in bronze, by this time you should have enough knowledge of the game to be placed in a minimal ranking of silver. I mean, there are some people who are in silver 2 or even gold who aren't smurfs and have less than 200 games and yet when you play with them, you wonder how they're ahead of you. Then there some bronzies that play damn good for their elo but can't win because they land on bad teams but you look at their stats and they're positive. Rank needs proper balanced ladder. I don't think there is anything you can do but persist until you ride a winning streak wave to your rightful elo.

TequilaZombie1 votes

I'm steadily climbing out of ELO hell. As far as I can tell, safe champions are mandatory. You can't trust your team to protect you, you can't trust you team to follow your engage, you can't trust your team to protect the lane while you split.

I always assume someone in my team is going to feed, so anything with an escape is great. I also like being able to 1v1 the shit out of people, mostly because in bronze you won't have 5 man death squads coming for you, no matter what you do.

It's one of the reasons why I like playing Shaco. You can bait people to a side lane while your team is derping around in the jungle to buy them time to get their shit together. If they decide to engage on your team, you can easily take 1 or 2 turrets and maybe even an inib before the enemy team comes back. The usual scenario is: I split, my team derps and dies, I take two turrets or a turret and an inib, forcing the enemy team to come and stop me, saving our turrets in the proccess.

If you want to ADC, Sivir is great, as she has her shield as a defense mechanism, can hit the backline by attacking the tanks and her ult serves as both an offensive tool for the cases where your team snowballs or as an GTFO card for a team fight that turned bad.

I also enjoy Kennen ADC, although I'm a bit afraid of trying him in ranked and getting reported or trolled by my team. He's EXTREMELY safe and can snowball really hard. He has self peel on his ult, basicly replacing the need for a support (or making up for the bad one you have) and completely ruining the day of assassins. You usually can all in anyone as you will have the ridiculously high DPS of an ADC and a triple stun to boot.

Other than that, Game Knowledge is king. I probably have worse mechanics than half of the players stuck in Bronze, but I can just out smart them most of the time. They group for a wind drake? They lose a tower. They go for a baron attempt? It's already warded and I'm already on my knees begging my team to stop´it.

I've found out that a item 3512 is a must in most Bronze games. The power of minion waves is vastly underestimated in this ELO. Not only that, but the big waves that are created by it bring all those greedy ADCs to easy traps. If you can get away with a full tank item as ZZ, go for it. If you can't, get on your knees and beg. It's worth it.

An honorable mention is item 3060. If the enemy lacks AD wave clear, the super siege minion will run rampant.


Overall, leaving ELO hell is about Game Knowledge and learning to not depend on your team. If you can find self suficient champions that you like, you're good to go. On the other hand, you can try to get one or two of your team mates fed. Most people don't know how to stop a snowballing champion. Just make sure you also get fed in the mean time.

Jinzo Torrance1 votes

I actually got out of Bronze with Viktor (my main), just play very aggressive and roam bot lane when you can.

Dukues1 votes

There are definitely champions easier to carry with than others if played correctly, but in the end it should not matter what champions you play as long as you play better than the average players in those games. No matter what elo you are farm is important. The lower the elo the less the average player realizes this or at least is effective at it. Like low bronze players generally have no real idea of wtf farming is. They will try to cs a little but generally turns more into aram team death match after awhile. Mid silver to bronze is similar with players having a little more skill and game knowledge but not much. Just abuse their lack of skill and knowledge by farming and getting strategic kills. It takes awhile but its important to learn your champions limits. Keep spamming whatever champions you feel ok playing and learn your champions limits and skill match ups. Once you have an idea of your limits you will have a better understanding of when to engage and when to run, especially early game. If you know you can kill your enemy laner or jungler then focusing on doing that early and then abusing your lead. If you can't then make sure to play passive and keep up your farm.

I am bad at putting this into words but If I had an account in bronze or low silver right now and wanted to rank up fast this is what I would do. I would take a champion I felt I could farm easily with and kill a lot of enemies with. For me my go to pick for mid would be Annie junlger would be XinZhao or Vi and adc would be MissFortune . I feel comfortable playing these roles and champions. In lane I would cs the best I could and focus on getting enemy laner out of lane. Generally I am more mechanically skilled than bronze/silver adcs or mid laners so I will usually get kills in lane. Then I just keep farming lane and farming enemy opponents until the team death match starts where I am up an item or two and can usually win the team fights for my team.

If junlging I would probably gank more for kills but what I found is silver/bronze junglers usually try to gank too much and don't focus on farm. So focus on clearing jungle camps and look for lanes that are pushed and easy to gank. If you laner is not completely noob or dead then will hopefully help you and you will hopefully get kill/assist on gank. Usually bot lane is a great place to camp as more kill opportunities and is focused a lot. With a champion like Sejuani your ult can really change a fight quickly. I would focus bot after 6 when you have ult to hopefully get 2 kills and maybe a 3rd on a counter gank. Players sometimes roam a lot so you can look for the enemy roaming and try to turn fights assuming your teammates can back you up or you know you can kill the enemy players before they kill you. Just takes time and experience of learning the game/your limits, and how your average opponent and teammate think and reacting to that.

Dukues1 votes

Actually looking at your jungle farm in your last few ranked games looks ok. Usually lower ranked players farm is lower, but yours is pretty good. Its hard to say without watching your games but you might have to go against your instinct and actually fight more haha. Like if your a higher rank player playing in lower elo you will tend to get frustrated by what you see around you. I know for me the when I play in bronze/low silver is a little different than what I would in gold. Not a lot but a little. Farming is really important but generally your lower elo teammates don't know how to stay safe and play from behind. So you generally have to help your team get kills and slow down enemy farm by ganking them a lot. I would pick 1 or 2 lanes who are doing ok or ahead and just camp the shit out of them. Do a couple of jungle camps and then just gank over & over again. Bronze/silver players don't ward so just abuse the shit out of it. You are probably going to have to make the objective calls so take dragons when you can and help push turrets when you can. If you play more of a split push champ like Udyr then you problaby goign to want to spend a lot of your time just pushing turrets while your team plays aram team death match. But if you playing Sejuani then you going to want to help your team win those death matches. So get as fed as you can with helping 1 or 2 of your lanes get super fed and then ult charge enemy back line when your team around before they know wtf is going on and kill their carries. After you win fight your team will do something stupid but dont let them. Ping turrets or baron over and over until they come.

Watch the re spawn times on the enemy and when it gets down to 3 seconds or so ping back. Your team will probably stick around and wait to get slaughtered by the enemy team that just re spawned but you just have to leave them behind. The lower elo you are the more your team likes to stick around even after enemy team re spawns so you just have to bail before you die. Its not worth dying to try and save your team when they overstay.

Swiftstrike41 votes

Play champions you like and the roles you like pretty frequently. Main 1 champion per role and then have 1 back-up. You will climb doing that.

I would stick to two roles and I would stay out of the bottom lane in general. It doesn't surprise me that you found it hard to win with Sona in your Elo since she is largely an enabler for teammates, and is about early game pressure. If your ADC can't capitalize on the cushion you provide in the bottom lane, than you lose your advantage playing her verse other supports. Supports that can engage or disengage better are probably better choices in bronze.

If you are looking for a carry jungler Jax could be a good choice. Sejuani is highly dependent on teamwork to be a dominant presence and I think in your elo the less teamwork you have to do the better. Vi is also a good choice because she can carry games AND also have a lot of team utility.

For the top lane I think Nasus, Tryndamere Darius Irelia MonkeyKing Jax are all really good choices in low Elo.

In the mid lane you need to play champions with high burst and ones that can carry in the early game. You also should pick champions with a relatively low skill cap, that are not too skill shot dependent. Annie Lux Talon all fit that bill.

I think you should figure out what champions you enjoy playing and then just focus on playing them a lot. Hopping around and changing champions a lot makes it so that you never become good with any, but you remain adequate with several.

Risen291 votes

{quoted}

In the mid lane you need to play champions with high burst and ones that can carry in the early game. You also should pick champions with a relatively low skill cap, that are not too skill shot dependent. Annie Lux Talon all fit that bill.

I think you should figure out what champions you enjoy playing and then just focus on playing them a lot. Hopping around and changing champions a lot makes it so that you never become good with any, but you remain adequate with several.

I'm curious, why do you suggest Talon as an early snowballing mid champ, but not Katarina or Fizz? Is it because Talon is better at it, or because the other two require a lot more skill to pull off?

I've seen Kat and Fizz carry enough that if it's something you can reliably do in bronze I'm all for taking the time to master them. At this point I'm less concerned about what is easiest and more concerned about finding something that will give me the greatest gains after I put the time into it. I use to play Talon, but I stopped because I felt like he was too feast or famine. If I didn't get monsterously fed early then I couldn't be sure of securing victory before the the enemy started deathballing down mid, so I could rarely get picks once that happened and therefore my impact on the game was greatly diminished. Sure, I'd usually win lane, or at least go even and farm, but if I didn't win hard then the game would come down to teamfights where I didn't do well.

If I were to pick between those three, assuming that I take the time to cultivate the skill to use them, which would you say has the most consistent carry potential?

From my experience, I fear Fizz more than Kat because Fizz seems to feed off my team and snowball a lot more often than Kat, and he seems harder to shut down once he gets going.

It has gotten to the point where I often want to ban fizz if I'm not playing mid. I don't fear facing Fizz if I'm mid, but I fear what Fizz will do to my mid and the rest of my team if I can't do something about it.

With regards to playing whatever I like: That doesn't seem feasible until I gain some elo. I like to play champions that don't try to hard carry, but make incremental gains or work within the context of a team. Artillery mages. Aggressive supports. Utility. Siege. Split pushing. Aside from split pushing, none of it does that well at this elo because I don't have a reliable team to work around. And even split pushing doesn't do as well as it should, because at this elo people don't understand that you don't have to constantly be looking for a teamfight and take every teamfight that happens. They go initiate 4vs5 teamfights while I'm pushing, a fight they didn't have to take, and then blame me for not being there. That's fine, I don't care, they can die - except if the enemy team wipes them then I have to stop my split pushing to defend, so I may not make any net gains if my team are strategic idiots.

I really need something that can carry hard. Doing somewhat better than my lane opponent and making smart decisions and small gains throughout the match won't cut it to bring us victory. I need to absolutely crush my lane and snowball before the enemy does the same.

But, ironically, at this elo you also need to be prepared to either teamfight late game or split push so hard it doesn't matter. Because this elo is such that no matter how strong your early lead is, you will rarely end the game before 35 minutes unless the enemy team surrenders.

So it's been a challenge to not only find something I like but find something that can make a key early game impact but also clutch late game teamfights. Some of the ones that are best for this are not champions I've ever had much desire to play, but at this point my goal is just to quickly gain elo so I can actually start playing the stuff I like in the context of more competent teams.

Swiftstrike41 votes

{quoted}

I'm curious, why do you suggest Talon as an early snowballing mid champ, but not Katarina or Fizz? Is it because Talon is better at it, or because the other two require a lot more skill to pull off?

I've seen Kat and Fizz carry enough that if it's something you can reliably do in bronze I'm all for taking the time to master them. At this point I'm less concerned about what is easiest and more concerned about finding something that will give me the greatest gains after I put the time into it. I use to play Talon, but I stopped because I felt like he was too feast or famine. If I didn't get monsterously fed early then I couldn't be sure of securing victory before the the enemy started deathballing down mid, so I could rarely get picks once that happened and therefore my impact on the game was greatly diminished. Sure, I'd usually win lane, or at least go even and farm, but if I didn't win hard then the game would come down to teamfights where I didn't do well.

If I were to pick between those three, assuming that I take the time to cultivate the skill to use them, which would you say has the most consistent carry potential?

From my experience, I fear Fizz more than Kat because Fizz seems to feed off my team and snowball a lot more often than Kat, and he seems harder to shut down once he gets going.

It has gotten to the point where I often want to ban fizz if I'm not playing mid. I don't fear facing Fizz if I'm mid, but I fear what Fizz will do to my mid and the rest of my team if I can't do something about it.

With regards to playing whatever I like: That doesn't seem feasible until I gain some elo. I like to play champions that don't try to hard carry, but make incremental gains or work within the context of a team. Artillery mages. Aggressive supports. Utility. Siege. Split pushing. Aside from split pushing, none of it does that well at this elo because I don't have a reliable team to work around. And even split pushing doesn't do as well as it should, because at this elo people don't understand that you don't have to constantly be looking for a teamfight and take every teamfight that happens. They go initiate 4vs5 teamfights while I'm pushing, a fight they didn't have to take, and then blame me for not being there. That's fine, I don't care, they can die - except if the enemy team wipes them then I have to stop my split pushing to defend, so I may not make any net gains if my team are strategic idiots.

I really need something that can carry hard. Doing somewhat better than my lane opponent and making smart decisions and small gains throughout the match won't cut it to bring us victory. I need to absolutely crush my lane and snowball before the enemy does the same.

But, ironically, at this elo you also need to be prepared to either teamfight late game or split push so hard it doesn't matter. Because this elo is such that no matter how strong your early lead is, you will rarely end the game before 35 minutes unless the enemy team surrenders.

So it's been a challenge to not only find something I like but find something that can make a key early game impact but also clutch late game teamfights. Some of the ones that are best for this are not champions I've ever had much desire to play, but at this point my goal is just to quickly gain elo so I can actually start playing the stuff I like in the context of more competent teams.

Talon can do more than fizz in terms of "teamfighting" compared to other assassins. Fizz is relatively harder to farm with, and he is pretty kill dependent, but talon has a lower skill cap. Talon is all about the rotation of your abilities after your combo, Fizz takes timing and knowing when to go in and get out. Basically Fizz requires better decision-making on when to use your abilities than Talon, and in your Elo you probably make poor decisions frequently.

Talon has an AoE stealth which makes it so the he is more forgiving than other assassins. I have a feeling that after the assassin update he will be relatively better tuned and he is a way lower skill cap than most.

Katarina is crap. She is countered so easily and I have almost never seen her played in my ranked games. Yeah she can stop noobs in bronze and mid silver, but any type of CC shuts her down and most players know to CC and to target her by the time they hit Gold.

I would also say she is higher skill cap than most. Any midlaner with a stun or displacement owns her.

Annie of the three I suggested remains really strong consistently. She is fairly simple and is completely playable in higher Elo. Lux is good for her team utility but she can also face stomp people, but Annie is a burst mage that remains viable because of her low skill cap and low dependency on skill shots.

I still think though, that if you play the champions you like and play them often you will climb. That's what I did, I stunk with my main but I just kept playing him. Eventually you get to the point where you are "matchup" proof because you are so familiar with your champion. Only platinum players or higher can really effectively expose champion's strengths and weaknesses by the matchup

it be lìke that1 votes

i mean 3/4 of my last ranked games i had mid and top go like 0-5 in under 10 minutes. so i hear ya.

Risen291 votes

I've been trying out some champions to try to figure out which one or two I should focus on maining. Trying to find the one that works best for me. I've been trying to focus on gank junglers who don't fall off late game.

I might try top or mid laners at a later point, including some of the ones people have suggested here, but for now I think I'm going to focus on trying to main junglers because many have said it has the most carry potential at this elo.

Sometimes it feels like a race to make a stronger impact early game than the enemy jungler, because both teams are going to position badly and make a lot of mistakes, so it's kind of a race to see who can exploit that more. But no matter how good I do early game, it's always going to go late unless the enemy team surrenders.

Vi Vi is one that has been working pretty well. She is pretty good for early ganking, and can potentially be a strong duelist with good waveclear for split pushing. She can also solo dragon. But, given that this elo doesn't quite understand how to take towers well, I find myself less useful when all they want to do is deathball down mid. I can try to assassinate the carry, but I don't like putting myself into a position of dying and having to trust my team to make the sacrifice worthwhile. She has potential for sure, but I think I need to work on finding ways to more consistently carry with her. RIght now I'm breaking even or maybe doing above average with her.

Rammus Rammus has been working great for me. His Q and E combo make for some fairly reliable ganks as long as the person in lane is somewhat competent. He can transition into a good initiator late game. But some of my problems with him have been he isn't the best duelist, is a poor split pusher, doesn't take dragon himself, and sometimes feels more team dependent to accomplish things. I think that is made up for often by his reliable early game ganking and his reliable peeling late game. I seem to do better with him than VI for some reason, even though I think Vi is the stronger carry. I think he has potential but I'm wondering if there are better options available, preferably with more duelist punch and waveclear.

Udyr I do have Udyr, but the last time I played him significantly he had close to a 60% winrate. He has since been nerfed. Would he still be viable as a gank and split push focused jungler, or are there better options at this point?

I also have a few others I want to try, but I have limited IP and I could use some help picking out which ones to get first: Graves Graves - I'm told he is the strongest jungler at this point. I don't know how he performs at bronze/silver elo though, if I'm going to feel too team dependent. Never played him much, and certainly never played him jungle. Hecarim Hecarim - I like him for his speed. Which is the same thing I like Rammus for. I did well with him when he was free recently. I feel like it gives me a lot of freedom and flexibility in ganking. But I wonder if he falls off too much late game. Jax Jax - Never played him, all I know is I often hate seeing him on the enemy team. That right there is a good sign I should probably try him. XinZhao Xin Zhao - Never played him, so not sure how he compares with other gank junglers. Olaf Olaf - Only played him top lane. Not real excited about him, but if he's good I'll try. Not sure how he does as an aggressive jungler. I wonder whether he has enough mobility and CC for early ganking, or if the main reason you take him is because he can be a monsterous late game carry. KogMaw Kogmaw - High winrate. Late game powerhouse. How viable do you think it is in comparison to the others? I've had some fair success on him when he was free. I think his ganking could work just by the fact that his range and damage allows him to secure kills quickly. JarvanIV Jarvan. I hear he's got good early ganks. Not sure how he stacks up mid and late game, or how team dependent he is.

I also plan to buy Zac Zac for RP when he goes on sale this month. He definitely think I'll enjoy him for his strong gank mobility. I think the pattern I've noticed here is I like speed and CC. Which is also probably why I feel Vi a little limiting for only having a dash with no CC beyond the knockup and her ult.

EndlessSorcerer1 votes

If you are looking for junglers to climb through low ELO with, I generally recommend the following: Amumu Volibear XinZhao

They are simple, influential and reliable champions due to the nature of their kit. In addition, they have great damage and durability while providing decent utility and mobility.

Personally, I still love playing Udyr and he is probably the champion I find the most consistent success with. If you know how to efficiently farm and pressure objectives on the map, you can do extremely well with him rather consistently.

My generic build (though it is subject to change) on him would be: Runes: MS Quints, Attack Speed Marks, Scaling Health Seals, Scaling CDR Glyphs Masteries: 6/6/18 (taking Tenacious and Strength of Ages) Core Items: item 3111 or item 3009, Cinderhulk + Stalker's Blade, Trinity Force, Zz'rot Portal

If you are looking for a CC/tank jungler, I would recommend Sejuani, Gragas, Zac and/or Nautilus. I find they are all rather versatile, reliable and powerful with tools to handle many situations.

Vi is a great jungler when you are snowballing. I'm not a fan of her personally due to her reliance on building damage early-game and her all-in nature, but she is rather strong.

Rammus is pretty good (especially against AA-reliant teams), but I find other tank junglers are more reliable in most situations.

Kog'maw is having his rework largely reverted, so he won't really be jungling any longer. I wouldn't bother picking him in the jungle at the moment.

Hecarim is very good at taking a lead and snowballing with it due to his combination of initiation, sustained damage and survivability. He is a little less forgiving when behind though since he has to go into the enemy team.

Jax is decent. He needs to farm up and requires a few items before he really begins to pop-off, but he can becomes a terror once he has them.

Risen291 votes

I've been working on improving and focusing on doing fewer things well.

I'm noticing some interesting dynamics about what doesn't work and why.

For jungling, it appears to be required to play something that can gank decent pre-6 and can strongly gank at 6. Psychology plays the biggest part in jungle success. Whoever ganks early and successfully will likely win on the tilt factor alone. Someone recommended in a guide that you shouldn't take ganks you aren't sure of, focusing on farm. But I don't find that to be the case. It's very easy for your team to throw the game in the first 10 minutes from feeding alone unless you are aggressive in taking advantage of the other team's stupidity in order to get early ganks off yourself.

Many recommend split pushing as the path to victory. I also have to say I find this to be a coin flip when you have teammates who are dead set on ARAMing down the center at any cost, even if it's 4vs5 and they are behind. Simply for the fact that while you are split pushing the enemy team is likely wiping out your team mid and then pushing mid faster than you can push the flanks. You can't count on your team being smart enough to know when not to fight, to stall and play defensive while you push.

I am actually finding that I seem to have the greatest success with champions that give me a very sure way of securing a teamfight victory, like malzahar with his ultimate. He doesn't have poke as good as viktor, but the ability to remove a key player from the fight and likely secure their death is just the kind of idiot button I often need to make these teamfights swing in our favor. Only after that can I then try to get them to push lanes and go for objectives.

I've had some success using Zac as a teamfight turner with his dive and ultimate, but the only downside is it's too dependant on my team being competent enough to follow up. If I don't get good early ganks then it's probably going to be a tough match.

Graves has great dueling potential and can transition into an adc, but I find his ganking lacks without strong team support.

I think Jax has potential for the fact that he scales so well. And his ganking potential is a bit better. I need to test him some more.

So I'm still experimenting trying to find the champions give me the most consistent carrying.

Risen291 votes

Trying to play bronze 1 is horrifyingly bad.

I'm at least mid silver in normal games based on who I get paired with. In that game I can ping targets and players often recognize the wisdom of that decision and follow my shot calling. This helps me to carry games, and my winrate in normals has been increasing. I've been doing well on Zac. If I can't take control of the early game with ganks then I can often do so mid or late game with solid teamfights.

But in bronze1 it's like everyone ignores you. No matter how much you ping or type in chat. They will ARAM down middle and chase kills all day long and they don't give a damn.

It's like I need completely different kinds of picks and playstyles. I almost need to go the split push route to have any reliable chance of victory because I cannot count on my team having enough sense to follow pings and group up effectively for a teamfight. They will suicide against the middle tower repeatedly and there's nothing I can do to help them other than just ignore them and hope to make up for it elsewhere.

I think this is why Zac, Sona, etc work well for me in normal silver elo, but in B1 ranked they just don't have a halfway competent team.

I think I need to transition into something like Jax or Nasus as a hardcarry dedicated split push who just ignores my team unless they happen to be where they should be. Or I need to pick a snowbally gank jungler who has good late game fighting, like Xin Zhao or Vi. Zac doesn't carry and split push quite hard enough if my team has no sense of when to teamfight, when not to, and doesn't even understand what pings are.

Hardstuck G41 votes

That is a good assessment. Strong early game champions that can wreck towers are great, because they snowball solidly. I personally played Tristana, took bot tower, rotated mid, and then just kept alternating. That won me quite a few games last season. Anyways, strong champions, good 1v1s, early game, late game. But any champion can fit that decently. Some tips to climb

  1. CS, CS, and CS. ~17 CS is the equivalent of 1 kill, so that's insane. If you CS at roughly 7 CS a minute, you'll win more games just off of being stronger than the opponent.
  2. Vision is insane. Ward constantly, check your map every ~5 seconds.
  3. Smart Engages. Don't pick a fight if you don't know that you can win it. Just some solid tips, good luck!
Risen291 votes

Amumu is giving me some pretty good results now.

I am definitely improving at jungle overall. If things are even on both teams I am pretty confident about winning.

And by even, I mean we don't have a teammate or two that completely throws the match for us with a horrid pick for their role. Unfortunately this is way too common at this elo. Draven top? If you want to play ADC then take the ADC spot, it's not like it's contested. Ziggs jungle? Are you kidding me? Blitz mid? Why?! Just go support, you'll always get it. Rengar ADC? Please don't do this to us. Nasus support? Seriously, what is wrong with you?

Then you've got the inevitable afkers and intentional feeders, or those who leave the game for whatever reason, which adds on another layer of guaranteed losses that you have to try to overcome.

I see now why people say they had to work harder to escape bronze and silver than they did gold or plat.

Risen291 votes

It doesn't work that way. Some champions are too team dependent to reliably carry bronze. It's en entirely different meta. Champions that I can carry games with consistently in normal games, where I am regularly paired with high silver and low gold players, are completely nonfunctional in bronze 1 because they are too dependent on having a team with decent decision making and game knowledge.

I like Viktor. I do quite well with him. I make good decisions generally with him. But my ability to influence the game is very limited. I am dependent on my team's decision making ability to win. My contribution comes down entirely to being able to turn the tide of a teamfight mid to late game. But that's not a reliable way to win a game at this elo for many reason:

  1. Too high of a chance some lane is going to feed their mid or jungle who will snowball before midgame, and viktor is not a good roamer compared with other mids.
  2. Your team doesn't understand how to play for objectives most of the time, they will ARAM down mid repeatedly and only take towers if they win a teamfight. This means you will ping in vain trying to get your bruisers to peel off and push top or bot while middle is tagnated, but to no avail. You cannot go yourself because you are too vulnerable to being ganked.
  3. Your team is unlikely to pick a good composition. They may lack a tank, engage, or peel. And they probably won't know how to do any of these effectively even if they do pick them. This makes it more difficult for you to be effective as Viktor. The lack of peel is not the main issue, but more the lack of smart players that know when or when not to start to fight. If they are intent on wiping with a 4vs5 dive under turret, ignoring your retreat pings, there's no much you can do about it. You can't split push either to make up for it.

The reason playing a tanky engage jungler with CC is good at this elo is precisely because you have a lot more control over the teamfight decision making process, and you cover the areas your team probably won't be bringing to the fight.

If Fizz is better at carrying as Talon, then I'd rather learn to play him. Decision making is not my problem. My problem is trying to figure out how I can carry in a way that offsets the horrendous decision making of my ranked teammates. It's not a problem I have in normal games, where they make better decisions and don't need me to carry as hard for them.

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