In what kind of world Zed is fair and balanced?

Mael bro·Feb 12, 2016·199 votes·11,882 views

Because between multiple escape tools, manaless harass, efortless farming, bonus ad steroid passive and a recent buff he recieved, i believe that his passive needs to be gutted or removed. At core of his design Zed is extremely low risk, but extremely high reward and i don't see why people shouldn't abuse him. The thing is that he was sitting at 52.8 % win rate last patch. And as "High skillcap" champion he sure is facerolly atm. Even Zed mains can't hide the fact that that their main is the biggest mistake right now in this game.

363 Comments

Stars ShaperFeb 12, 201659 votes

Yesterday a Zed called my Xerath cancer.

(I was beating him 3/0)

Mael broFeb 12, 201668 votes

Making Zed pickers cry is the most fun you can have playing this game.

Stars ShaperFeb 12, 201615 votes

That's why i proceeded in making it a 0/7 :D

im tiltFeb 12, 201610 votes

due to buffs, all Zed players are trash like Riven mains? K

Unstoppable MonkFeb 12, 20166 votes

The shots, they have been fired.

KnoyleFeb 12, 20164 votes

Outplay him with Fizz . You get to make the Zed cry AND his team hate him for giving you a start on your troll streak.

PiVoRxFeb 13, 20163 votes

Fighting cancer with another cancer is not how this game is supposted to be played.

KnoyleFeb 13, 20163 votes

Maybe not but, isn't that what it has basically come down to at this point? Don't get me wrong but, I'd take Fizz over LeeSin Zed Yasuo Jax MasterYi or even XinZhao simply because I've never actually had any games where he is THE problem. As far as I can tell AP itemization is just not as good as AD.

KasatkaHuemayFeb 12, 20168 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iEvvV16w,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2016-02-12T16:17:22.678+0000)

Yesterday a called my cancer.

(I was beating him 3/0)

I dont play Zed. But I must admit Xerath is the cancer one. I still remember spring 2015 when everyone were spamming scripts on Xerath. I still hate this dumb champion and I suggest you to not trashtalk about the others. VelKoz/Zyra/Xerath... Since when people call them "skillcaped". The real low risk and high reward champs

AuryielFeb 12, 201625 votes

Can't make a single mistake with an assassin nearby without getting 1 shot if the guy is skilled

''low risk''

Unstoppable MonkFeb 12, 20169 votes

Positioning, skill shots, and non-mobility in lane champion without any tank or sustain other than mana?

Better call it cancer! /s

WarlordTimFeb 13, 201614 votes

Riot right now http://imgur.com/uOajtZJ

Miss LuxannaFeb 13, 20165 votes

RWBY. GG.

koagerFeb 12, 20163 votes

My friend played Zed against Lux and he was tilting so hard faced against her binds plus summoner 3 item 3140 item 3157 lol

Stars ShaperFeb 12, 20162 votes

She is probably the mage he suffers most xD (After Malzahar).

RikariFeb 14, 20162 votes

Zeds one of Lux's hardest counters,even more if you know her weakness. Zed suffers against Lissandra and a good Viktor.

AbusingMyRightsFeb 13, 201611 votes

I have been digging the Galio lately zed ults in and you R like "where you going friend? I thought you wanted to play"

PlacentasFeb 13, 20162 votes

item 3140 On lux? Wtf?

Very Hard EngageFeb 12, 201628 votes

zed wins 1v1, and is free to screw up. zed falls short in a 5v5 setting regardless of how fed he is. he is only 1 player, and he has to dive. at the end of the day 5 people can take him down with ease making him a non factor in most situations beyond 30minutes.

thats the only reason he has some resemblance of a fair 52% win rate. he is a gross champion, but because people like him, and most players on boards play assassins, they will forever say hes fine because they maintain close to a 50~60% win rate with them"being a zed main", and believe from their personal experience that hes fine because the champ only carried them to plat.

when in reality if they played any other champ in any other position they would fall from whatever current rank they once held because zed is gross freelo.

AninLegions777Feb 12, 20165 votes

If Zed is freelo, why aren't his so-called "mains" all Gold or Plat? Man, you need to back up these claims.

Very Hard EngageFeb 12, 20166 votes

{quoted}

If Zed is freelo, why aren't his so-called "mains" all Gold or Plat? Man, you need to back up these claims.

when in reality if they played any other champ in any other position they would fall from whatever current rank they once held because zed is gross freelo.

read the above post.

these players are worse than they let on, they're completely niche and reliant on getting this 1 specific champ, they cant do anything else.

just look at this guy. http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=Kuraun wins on zed, majority of losses on most others.

elon wątrobaFeb 12, 20166 votes

59% win rate elise 59% win rate viktor still nice for 1 trick pony.

Shadowdepth80Feb 12, 201611 votes

He's the healthiest assassin in Riots words. I love him as a champion, if they gut him, assassins won't ever be the same. I could understand like a small base-damage nerf and the removal of AD DFG item 3147 but don't gut the champion ;-;

Mael broFeb 12, 201651 votes

  -Manaless harass
-Multiple escapes
-Has the most powerful level 6 power spike (which was buffed even more, then nerfed, then RIOT added Duskblade)
-Outpoke a ranged champion
-Most braindead easy champion to farm

#Outplayed #HealthyAssassin

Ariel the CruelFeb 12, 201615 votes

-Outpoke a ranged champion

Xerath out-poke me? Surely you jest.

XeroKimoFeb 12, 201616 votes

Has a longer ranged poke than Xerath, Xerath's Q = 1400, Zed's Q = 900 + 700 on shadows, Zed's Q has a lower CD than Xerath's Q from levels 1-4 in which they become equal on 4th level. So pretty much, you can say Zed outpokes Xerath early game

Ariel the CruelFeb 12, 201631 votes

Xerath's entire kit is 1000+ range. Zed has 1 combo.

In terms of poke, Zed's only advantage is speed. Xerath's skills come with a warning light, Zed's shadow shuriken takes about .25 seconds to cast and reach max range.

Zed still massacres Xerath in every other category.

AninLegions777Feb 12, 20165 votes

Except sniping people from miles away. Zed can't do that. Zed also doesn't have a stun. Or 3 AoE spells that have high dmg %.

Voluug13Feb 12, 201612 votes

3 AoE spells that can be evaded and have extremely delayed and telegraphed hitzones.

You cant evade a Zed's Ult. Or his buffed up AAs. And his combo had to be nerfed due to being too fast, and still IS too fast.

(Ans dont say Zhonia's because that isnt counterplay, no starts with Zhonia)

AninLegions777Feb 12, 20164 votes

Evaded at the cost of farm. Also you can't use the manaless excuse with Xerath cos he practically never runs out of mana in lane. Zed needs to come close to you. Xerath doesn't. He can even farm without getting poked by Zed if you know how to play right. Also you can't deny the fact that in Teamfights, Xerath brings wayyyy more to the table than Zed. And teamfights define game outcomes so say what you want, Xerath's AoE abilities, delayed as they are, have more impact that Zed's single target combos.

Who cares if you start Zhonyas or not? The point is you have an item that completely negates an ability that Zed relies on. It also prevents situations where Zed would have engaged due to the fear of all his dmg being negated.

THE RlVER KlNGFeb 12, 20168 votes

The point is you have a champion(s) that completely negates a whole class of champions League is built upon.

WarlordTimFeb 13, 20164 votes

Couldn't you say the same about Lissandra?

Brainman99Feb 12, 20167 votes

-Manaless harass -Multiple escapes -Has the most powerful level 6 power spike (which was buffed even more, then nerfed, then RIOT added Duskblade) -Outpoke a ranged champion -Most braindead easy champion to farm

1 :Early game spamming combo results in a loss of all energy for him requiring him to regain energy and giving him a clear moment of weakness to kill for about 5 seconds 2: 3 escapes tops (including flash) one of the others requires you to put yourself right next to an enemy champion 3: Talon, Vayne, Illaoi, Mundo,Jax, Rengar, Khazix, Katarina, 4: Zeds main poke is his q with 700 range with this added onto his w its 1400 range. While this is very high range its not very easy to land your Q's all the time and it most certainly is not consistent enough damage to out trade a ranged champion. 5: Ever heard of Heimerdinger?

AninLegions777Feb 13, 20162 votes

This!

And I even forgot Heimer. Good lord these people amaze me every time with their complaints.

NineTailedMysticFeb 14, 20161 votes

If I wanted to rely on counter picks I'd play Dota

AninLegions777Feb 14, 20161 votes

Man, there are counters in every sport. It's a requirement. Why would you just pick anything you want without having a way to stop it? Doesn't add up.

NineTailedMysticFeb 14, 20161 votes

There should be tough match ups, sure, but having to be utterly reliant on a counter pick at times is incredibly frustrating.

AninLegions777Feb 14, 20161 votes

You don't have to be utterly reliant. I can take Morg Vs. Zed. She's not as hard a counter as Malzahar, Talon or Fizz but she's alright. I just take hard counters cos they make it easier for me. When you play around with different champs against Zed, you slowly learn how to use their kit efficiently to counter them. It's frustrating at first but trust me, when you start using Lux to kill Zed, you'll have that great feeling.

NineTailedMysticFeb 15, 20161 votes

Trust me, I pick Taric into Zed when I pick after the Zed does, and I shit on him. While I love Taric, my main champ Ahri, the one I started playing league for, is the one I wanna play 90% of the time. Alas, I get shit on by Zed with her unless it's an obvious first timer playing him which is why these 100% counter picks frustrate me.

AninLegions777Feb 15, 20161 votes

Taric is actually an interesting champ. I've played him Vs. Tryn Top. It's so funny how he's almost always stunned. I hope the rework doesn't change that.

I understand the frustration. Tell me though, what exactly makes you lose against Zed as Ahri? (Cos I find it hard to play Vs. Ahri. Too risky to all-in her).

NineTailedMysticFeb 15, 20161 votes

I'll admit Ahri v Zed is more a skill match up, around 55-45 in Zed's favor.

The obvious point is Energy vs Mana. If my jungler shows elsewhere he can just shove me and either I push back and be low mana and not lose cs or attempt to cs under tower vs W > Q harass.

The more minute details are; Ahri's Charm has a cast time, .5s I believe, so if Zed ults I can't pre-cast my CC behind me since that turns me around. When Zed ults, my options are: Charm when he comes out of it, which can be frustrating to do the last point. Ult to bring him under my tower, then try to charm and hope me + tower is enough to kill him, though it usually ends in a kill trade which is better for Zed. Or just Flash away and hope he didn't get his combo off on me. Also, Ahri's Charm is her only defensive option without ult, and before 6, it has a huge cost, in both Mana and Cooldown so if he wants he can W > E > Q > W auto and win that trade, guaranteed.

These complaints were Season 5. It's worse in Season 6.

New to this patch is Duskblade. It gives everything an assassin wants, between an assload of AD items in this season since 75 AD is more than most items now. 10 ArPen and 5% MS is more than just dandy on top of it, and then the passive is just another Zed ult, so either his ult amps Duskblade or Duskblade amps his ult. Further in to this, AD itemization in S6 is just too damn good with all this flat Armor Pen flying around. I know they're trying to compensate the fact that they nerfed Last Whisper, but buying Seeker's now just feels so bad when I know AD assassins, not just Zed run Precision for flat pen there, on top of 10 from Serrated and it's items (Or more!) so just Duskblade + Youmou's is 30 Flat pen right there where I'm likely to have ~70 Armor around that time. Among this is Hexdrinker which gives amazing stats (which builds into MORE ARMOR PEN) for that early for 1300g and a great anti-burst passive so of Zed opts to rush it, on the off chance I catch him that early, it definitely won't be a kill where it likely would have been on me if he had caught me.

(I actually started running a Rune page with 30 flat Armor + 15 from Cloth so I walk into lane with about 67 Armor at level 1.)

This problem is amplified by the piss AP Itemization Mages have been left with in S6. The Seeker's buff this patch was nice, but not nearly enough to justify the huge cost on Zhonya's. To be honest I wish Riot would remove Zhonya's in lieu of better AP defensive items, especially if it's as game-warping as people claim it to be.

The typical strategy for dealing with assassins early is, since they're melee, is to constantly harass them via autos and the occasional spell if you can afford it. Zed says fuck that, fuck you, I'm an early game champ. W E Q (maybe double Q) is MORE than enough to chunk your average mid laner for half or more without much to offer in the way of retaliation if he did it over minions. Best Ahri can do is hope for both ends of Q and an auto for a Thunderlord's proc and you still lose the trade.

For a while now I've opted to run Exhaust over Ignite for AD mid laners, but I still typically barely live his all-ins whether I get a kill or not. All the while he's incredibly hard to gank. Like, you HAVE to bait his all-in with your jungler in the wings waiting.

I always feel like it's his lane to fuck up, not mine to win. Which is the case with a lot of these huge outplay champions. (See: Yasuo)

TL;DR Age old Mana vs Energy, a lot of nuances with Ahri that are easy to fuck up vs Zed, AD itemization is too good, Zed breaks the mold with AD Assassins.

Sorry about the rant, and I realize the first part are mostly me problems.

AninLegions777Feb 15, 20162 votes

I don't know whose favour it goes in but I can say that Ahri is frustrating to any Zed player. Her ult pretty much counters yours, her spells have good ranged and high dmg not to talk about true dmg which makes Maw lose it's original power. But yeah, it's a skill match up.

I totally understand everything you are saying. Don't take exhaust with Ahri, ignite will do just fine. Don't worry about the delay on her charm. If Zed ults you offensively, chances are he won't switch back immediately. So just chill and make him pay. The new item isn't so great on Zed. There are better items to pick.

Instead of taking armor runes, take magic pen runes. That'll help a lot early game.

Mana will always be a problem, just learn how to get the best out of Doran's ring passive. Another tip, if mana becomes much of a problem, get dark seal immediately you have enough gold for it and one health pot. It's not the best but it helps.

Trust me man, Ahri shits on Zed IF played right.. That's why she has a higher pick and winrate than him.

SithesisLordFeb 12, 201613 votes

-Manaless harass

Riven

-Multiple escapes

Riven Before you question why, yes her Qs count as escape tools.

-Has the most powerful level 6 power spike (which was buffed even more, then nerfed, then RIOT added Duskblade)

item 3147 + Riven Hello there, strike three.

-Outpoke a ranged champion

In the distance you can hear Kayle laughing louder than Lux.

-Most braindead easy champion to farm

Bad Zed: Can´t manage W passive for shit. Good Zed: Knows how to manage W passive.

Just because Riot says he's the healthiest assassin doesn´t necessarily mean he truly is. But he sure as heck is more healthy than Ms. 100-0-You-At-Level-3 Leblanc .

I hate Zed as much as the other guy, but even i see that he is honestly pretty fair. Maybe not balanced, but fair.

Besides, Kayle summoner 3

There. Now you just turned Zed into a mana champion, cuz he´ll be stacking several item 3070 till the match is over.

CatastropFeb 12, 20169 votes

http://i.imgur.com/DY6fZc2.png?1 It helps when you make an effort to counter him.

Mael broFeb 12, 201617 votes

Sometimes your jungler camps for you and sometimes you're the one getting camped.

guguy123Feb 13, 20167 votes

The thing about Zed is that he's actually a model assassin. Now, before you get out your pitchforks, i'm not saying he's balanced right now. He's absolutely INSANE at the moment and is definetly in need of a nerf. BUT, i think that at his core he is the healthiest assassin. His Q is pretty straight forward, line skillshot that weakens if it hits minions. The only reason people hate it is its base damage being too high. Again, i'm saying his concept is fine, he just needs number tweaks. His W gives him a choice between more powerful harass and an escape. His E is meh, just look at Renekton's spin and you'll be begging for Zed's. And finally, his ult is actually the healthiest assassin ult in the game. It gives opportunities for great plays and is a huge powerspike, but at the same time, if you just fire and forget it, it's worthless. Zed is easily the healthiest assassin in the game, his numbers are just WAY overtuned right now, all riot needs to do is nerf some base damages and he's good to go.

TL;DR Zed is crazy op right now, but not because of his core as a champ. Nerf some numbers and he's easily the healthiest assassin in the game.

N00B PWN3RFeb 12, 20163 votes

Low elo 0 mechanic players crying about Zed, what is new? If he is as easy and OP as you claim, play him and get Master.

Mael broFeb 12, 20166 votes

I don't give a damn if he can insta burst a squishy. That's what an assassin should, my only concern is his goddamn braindead easy farming and early game pushing that barely has counterplay. Name one energy user that can push as good or better than Zed, Mr Challenjour

N00B PWN3RFeb 12, 20163 votes

Different champions have different strengths and weaknesses, if you think Zed is as good as you say, spam him and get Master. If he is as OP as you claim, rito will nerf him, simple as that.

The truth is that low elo 0 mechanic cry babies have already tried to play high skill cap champions like Zed LeeSin Yasuo Nidalee Riven and failed at them, they complain out of spite, nothing else.