Stop comparing Zoe to Nidalee already

chipndip1·Dec 11, 2017·7 votes·813 views

Zoe can't heal herself
Zoe has no escapes
Zoe's main burst tool's range is dependent on her own positioning + its own travel time, so it increases when you redirect it, usually from behind you, so it's impossible to just fire and forget like some Nidalee spears
Zoe can't jungle
Sure, Zoe has cc, but you can buy QSS/Crucible and cleanse it before it goes off. Someone else can also body block the follow-up hit. If Nidalee marks you, you're usually clean dead in a short moment.

There's a few stark differences. Can we stop saying Zoe's a tiger woman now?

17 Comments

BlackFluxDec 11, 20174 votes

I,in most cases don't mind zoe but she can get summoner 7 item 3107 she can get summoner 4 summoner 6 summoner 21 item 3152 item 3069 the comparison is the long range ability that does a lot of damage. but most compare it to pre rework nidalee spear cause it moved faster and Tristana / Twitch are not ADCs cause they can be jungle but can go ADC in the sense where some people play nidalee middle
and I for one don't care about the sleep on it's own apart from the missing expansion of it,they both have a mark of sorts but it is more how they use it,with the same result but in different ways,depending how long the game went and the zoe is E Qing for every kill,but using more abilities for nidalee

chipndip1Dec 11, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I,in most cases don't mind zoe but she can get she can get

Some of those things suck absolute dick early on in the game. Redemption, for example, by level 6 heals like 130 hp...that's like one spell's worth of damage. Some of the things she can get are problematic (Gunblade), but that's an issue Riot probably won't tackle unless they feel like they have to.

the comparison is the long range ability that does a lot of damage. but most compare it to pre rework nidalee spear cause it moved faster

That's a horribly shallow comparison. So every adc is Jinx now because everyone can buy Runaan's and aoe crit? (That's actually kinda what happened and why she kinda sucks now...)

and / are not ADCs cause they can be jungle but can go ADC in the sense where some people play nidalee middle

No one is talking about them.

and I for one don't care about the sleep on it's own apart from the missing expansion of it,they both have a mark of sorts but it is more how they use it,with the same result but in different ways,depending how long the game went and the zoe is E Qing for every kill,but using more abilities for nidalee

Nidalee's follow-up is still all in one burst. Zoe's mark can at least be body blocked or cleansed. If you play smart, Zoe can't carry games.

SKRRRRRRATDec 11, 20172 votes

old nidalee needed less ap to one shot you

sadaiblastDec 11, 20172 votes

i feel like you haven't ever seen Nidalee before she got her rework before saying this :P

chipndip1Dec 11, 20171 votes

{quoted}

i feel like you haven't ever seen Nidalee before she got her rework before saying this :P

So old Nidalee had hard cc that traveled through walls or the ability to steal summoner spells?

Old Nidalee could redirect her spear in mid flight?

sadaiblastDec 11, 20171 votes

i mean thats not exactly what I meant, obviously their kits are very different from each others, but old nidalee's playstyle was identical to Zoe's current playstyle. Nidalee was never ever a jungler to begin with, she was a long range AP midlane nuker just like Zoe is right now, it doesn't seem like this on the surface, but their kits were more closely related than what can be seen right from the surface. i hope this helps you understand :)

chipndip1Dec 11, 20171 votes

{quoted}

i mean thats not exactly what I meant, obviously their kits are very different from each others, but old nidalee's playstyle was identical to Zoe's current playstyle. Nidalee was never ever a jungler to begin with, she was a long range AP midlane nuker just like Zoe is right now, it doesn't seem like this on the surface, but their kits were more closely related than what can be seen right from the surface. i hope this helps you understand :)

Difference even now: Zoe's general distance from enemies is a lot closer than old Nidalee's. Zoe's ult is designed to help her out in this case, but Zoe's Q's range is dependent on her own positioning, and her E is dependent on going through walls. Without these mechanics, Zoe's ranges are actually shit. Nidalee's ranges don't have those types of conditions, and that changes the flow of their game play by considerable amounts.

The HamezzDec 11, 20171 votes

Yes old Nidalee's kit and Zoe's are very different but the over all play style is either identical or nearly the same

chipndip1Dec 11, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Yes old Nidalee's kit and Zoe's are very different but the over all play style is either identical or nearly the same

Edit: Wrong reply to the wrong person.

What I meant to say to you is: No, their play styles aren't similar.

RabblerouserDec 11, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Zoe can't jungle

If only all these Zoe fanatics would heed your word. :C So many lost games.

DoktorKaiserDec 11, 20171 votes

Yes there are few large differences :

old Nidalee didn't have hard CC on extremely long range and low cooldown that amplified her damage so that she can 1 shot anyone even with no items
her spears are 2 times slower than Zoe Q thus twice easier to dodge
she couldn't throw redemption bot at lvl 3 or randomly kill you with a gunblade at lvl 4 or flash 5 times in a row or spam GLP and protobelt at you for harass
spears don't have splash damage and Nidalee had to go melee mode to waveclear properly
and most important - Nidalee never actually 1 shot people unless she was MASSIVELY ahead, Zoe can 1 shot anyone even without many items at all stages of the game even if you are tanky, that is why she is the biggest cancer I have seen since Yasuo, I wonder who designed them both hmmmm....

chipndip1Dec 11, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Yes there are few large differences :

old Nidalee didn't have hard CC on extremely long range and low cooldown that amplified her damage so that she can 1 shot anyone even with no items

Once again:

Overall distance depends on walls. Nidalee's spears just go far as fuck for free.
Zoe's cc can be fucking cleansed, so buy a damn cleanse or buy a Banshee's.

her spears are 2 times slower than Zoe Q thus twice easier to dodge

And Zoe's stars don't go nearly as far unless Zoe herself moves closer to retaliation range. She also gives A HUGE FUCKING WARNING by sending them backwards, then forwards.

she couldn't throw redemption bot at lvl 3 or randomly kill you with a gunblade at lvl 4 or flash 5 times in a row or spam GLP and protobelt at you for harass

Low level redemptions are an auto's worth of bonus health. Gunblade is a bit cheesy, admittedly.

Stealing flashes is dependent on how many times you flash unless she grabs a free one off a minion. She also can't spam anything reliably off of W.

spears don't have splash damage and Nidalee had to go melee mode to waveclear properly

And Paddlestar, one cd, is used either to wave clear (and it's not even that good at that) or harassing, so Zoe's wave clear is just generally shit.

and most important - Nidalee never actually 1 shot people unless she was MASSIVELY ahead, Zoe can 1 shot anyone even without many items at all stages of the game even if you are tanky, that is why she is the biggest cancer I have seen since Yasuo, I wonder who designed them both hmmmm....

Zoe, honestly, can't one-shot that well, either. She does a lot, admittedly, since she has most of her burst, as a burst mage, in two spells, but she needs a strong lead before she can just 1-shot people. Also...buy some MR.

Also, Yasuo's a freaking 46% win rate champion. Riot has repeatedly spoken on how weak he's been for a long minute now. When do you blame yourself for just not adapting instead of him for being a melee carry? Unless every melee carry should be like Master Yi where they just right click your ass in two?

DoktorKaiserDec 11, 20171 votes

All your talk goes to shit when you realize that her cooldowns are all very very low and so are her mana costs. If she were to have high cooldowns like rest of burst mages nobody would complain. Funniest suggestion is to cleanse a CC that has a 5 second cooldown hahahahhahahahah what a fucking counterplay.

chipndip1Dec 11, 20171 votes

{quoted}

All your talk goes to shit when you realize that her cooldowns are all very very low and so are her mana costs. If she were to have high cooldowns like rest of burst mages nobody would complain. Funniest suggestion is to cleanse a CC that has a 5 second cooldown hahahahhahahahah what a fucking counterplay.

Not every burst mage has high cds.

DoktorKaiserDec 11, 20171 votes

She literally spams like Karthus, I highly doubt that any other mage has burst on that low of a cooldown.

WigglepufftuffDec 11, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Sure, Zoe has cc, but you can buy QSS/Crucible and cleanse it before it goes off. Someone else can also body block the follow-up hit. If Nidalee marks you, you're usually clean dead in a short moment.

Except the CC is two parts so you still get CC'd from either a slow or a sleep, either way she gets more time to escape/hit you. Also, there's not always gonna be a full health tank to body block the nuke.

chipndip1Dec 11, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Except the CC is two parts so you still get CC'd from either a slow or a sleep, either way she gets more time to escape/hit you. Also, there's not always gonna be a full health tank to body block the nuke.

Have you ever tried cleansing her sleep? If you cleanse it before it goes, you don't go to sleep. Stop spreading misinformation. You can't spellshield the sleeping part if you got hit by the initial proc, but you can cleanse it. If you want to spellshield it, you have to block the initial projectile.