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you know i didn't really think thornmail would actually get worse.

MunchCrunchLunch·7/17/2017, 8:27:08 PM·37 votes·3,079 views

but it did. the item does less damage to anyone. even lifestealers. why? because the return damage didn't just get reduced. it got gutted destroyed , beaten up on a roadside ditch, fired from its job, had a home forclosure, a parking ticket for being 5 seconds late, his wife divorced him, got sent to jail in a wrong mistrial. and got aids and died in jail for dropping the soap.

anyway. the item is unpurchaseable beyond its component. bramble vest. once you get to a 6 item point. might as well sell it for something more useful. its even more gold inefficient than before. its just stupid

the only technically one way its good is that if enemy has a support soraka that is spam healing an adc and they are autoing you and then someone else on your team goes in to burst that ad and that would actually help them doing that. but again thats too damn niche.

we all asked for GW on thornmail. but not to have the return damage reduced that much. obviously it needed to be reduced. but not this much. also why make it so damn inefficient as well?.

66 Comments

HalcyonDweller7/17/2017, 9:10:15 PM28 votes

I personally disagree, but I'm open to persuasion.

The point of thornmail was to counter marksmen drain-tanking off of tanks. Now it does so more directly by applying grievous wounds instead of returning more damage. The net effect on Marksmen is still similar, but in a more focused and modern way.

If you have math to back up the claim that it is gutted then by all means, please feel free to share it with us.

Zielmann7/17/2017, 8:34:40 PM13 votes

Is that why tanks building thornmail have spiked in winrate since the patch?

DunkinNoobs7/17/2017, 11:06:46 PM11 votes

I want you to say it with me: "The point of thornmail is not to make the adc kill themselves by attacking you."

I know that such an utterly preposterous idea seems insane to you tanks mains out there, but honestly consider it.

Jbels7/17/2017, 8:59:42 PM6 votes

It's almost like Riot doesn't know how to put tank items in a good spot, and ends up destroying them instead of rebalancing them. Rest in peace Sunfire Cape, except for the fact that you've become such an obligatory item that people still rush you despite how useless you are.

nyakasgoods7/17/2017, 10:28:25 PM6 votes

The GW on Thornmail doesn't only apply to autoattacks on the tank, though; it lasts for one second, meaning an adc with an attack speed greater than 1.0 will have another auto affected by GW even if it's not against the tank. In addition, nicking a tank with something like Runaan's, Twitch ult, or Xayah's passive will reduce their healing by the full amount even if they don't attack the tank.

In addition, they also put Cold Steel on it. By reducing the adc's attack speed, the item reduces their healing per second, and their dps as well.

Sire Hippington7/18/2017, 12:55:45 AM4 votes

I think the low damage return is not that much off an issue, haveing it as a 'you just killed your self' item is no good design either, though It could use either a small increase in it's armor scaleing or a small %return, but not to much. However, there are two things that annoy me alot. It's just not giveing enough tankiness, and the 15% as slow from wardens make no sense on an item that has it's damage scaleing off the opponents attackspeed. I'd prefer a chainmail in the builtpath, 300hp(more hp helps to synergies with stoneplate and warmongs) and maybe some small flat physical damge reduction post mitigation, or some bigger befor mitigation, so it not only punishes high AS champs with damage, but also offers protection against them.

agbudar7/17/2017, 10:48:07 PM2 votes

it also has cold steel passive applied to it atm so thats there as well.

Feyangol7/17/2017, 9:06:35 PM2 votes

Well, the problem lies in the whole concept ... It's now better to rush this item, because it has some flat dmg, but at the same time who actually does rush it?! This new thornmail is basicly an a lot more expensive version of the old one with a little bit more team synergy and more debuffs (it has now grevious wounds - every kind of healing is reduced, not only lifesteal healing against the tank).

junglerboy167/17/2017, 10:22:55 PM1 votes

I want to see the grievous wounds it gives stack on consecutive applications, increasing the healing debuff and the duration up to a cap. Maybe have it start at a reduced amount (maybe -30% healing instead of -40%), but each consecutive attack while the thorn mail specific debuff is applied would increase it by -10% and the duration by .5 seconds, up to -70% and 3 second duration.

That or they need to get rid of the HP, build it out of bramble, Warden's, and a cloth armor, increase the armor back to 100, and then increase the armor ratio on the damage return.

It should never be a viable rush item, or even a common place item, but it should be good at what it's supposed to do, which is to make a tank an undesirable target for an ADC trying to sustain off them.

DeadUnborn7/18/2017, 3:22:01 PM1 votes

stack it with randuins, that is the whole point

Sir Fuzzi7/18/2017, 11:07:25 PM1 votes

I guess I'm just a support guy happy to not have to buy into damage to get wounds. It's not much, I'd prefer some sort of quick-charge usable pulse on an MR item somewhere, instead of Thornmail.

But now I can buy you blockheads Grievous fucking Wounds when absolutely everyone else refuses to, and it's got cold steel to boot so you're more survivable now.

The damage was reduced but I honestly think it's better if champs dependent on that got compensations if needed. Realistically this is probably just punishing tanks who want to solo things with full defense builds.

Leaf on Bush7/19/2017, 8:07:41 AM1 votes

We all asked for GW on thornmail

Really? Poeple actually asked for this retarded change? Like "Please rito slap more of that broken 40% reduction(that totally destroys champions who rely on heals) on some of the cheapest items in the game!"

Meanwhile others were like "Oh no item 3047 item 3046 are way too strong, 12% reduction is too much, we have to change ninja tabi again and reduce it from 12% to 10%! You should never be able to counter an entire champion with high percentage reduction on such cheap items, right?"