since all the ap items got changed, is it time to talk about how shitty it is to build magic resist?

brad·Jul 18, 2015·19 votes·1,407 views

in the picture are all the magic resistance items in the game currently

seems like a lot right? think again

the only real magic resistance items that most tanks can build are the following

currently in the magic resistance build path, we have with null magic mantle giving 25 mr, negatron cloak giving 45, and spectre's cowl giving 35

to build either banshee's or visage, you need to sit on the 25 magic resistance from null magic mantle until you can finish it into cowl, then sit on the 35 until you can finish it completely

GA doesnt have a bad build path magic resist-wise, but its generally not built until the later parts of the game

so realistically, if someone wants to build magic resistance, they have 2 options, banshee's or spirit visage

looking at armor, the build paths are with 15, 20, 40, and 45 armor respectively

i guess what im trying to say is that its extremely hard to build magic resistance unless you actually complete an entire item, whereas things like thornmail or frozen heart give more armor, have more armor in their build paths, and are easier to build than their magic resistance counterparts

tl;dr buff mr itemization or we riot

50 Comments

EndlessSorcererJul 18, 201510 votes

You forgot about Locket of the Iron Solari when you were listing the items tanks can get. Zz'rot Portal is also an option for split-pushing tanks (i.e. Shen).

You can't really directly compare MR values to armor values. Mages typically rely on their ability cooldowns to deal damage which AD champions can always autoattack while their abilities are on cooldown.

IcyPepperJul 18, 201513 votes

Locket of the Iron Solari

Some people think this is a support-only item for some reason.

aaronautumnJul 18, 20151 votes

for a while, both jungle and support got it. idk what happened, only support gets it now.

IcyPepperJul 18, 20151 votes

I don't understand, honestly. Some supports aren't great with it, not to mention that it really helps protect squishies who can't build MR early/midgame. Tanks are supposed to protect their team, and even with the small amount of MR it gives you personally the reward is worth the sacrifice. Not to mention the active is nice and it gives a decent amount of health too.

NineTailedMysticJul 19, 20151 votes

I mean it gives 40 to the holder, 20 to nearby allies. Not that bad.

B1naryB0tJul 19, 20154 votes

Banner of Command master race!

PikmintsJul 19, 20151 votes

I think some of the thought behind it is that the tank could either get 6 tanky items + bonus tank stats from the support, or just get 6 tanky items with one of them being Locket. Either way the team has the aura, but the first one lets the tank do his job even better.

Plus supports are expected to provide utility, so either a tanky one can buy it and amplify how tanky they are, or a squishy can get it and prevent themselves from getting blown up. The aura is good alone though, so supports that get AP seem to have been buying Banner Of Command more this season since the aura is identical.

SpecterVonBarenJul 19, 20151 votes

It actually gives the person using it about as much mr as SV and BV, remember that it has the base 20 MR but the aura is also being applied to yourself, so you're actually getting about 40 mr.

BârdJul 19, 20151 votes

Feral flare MasterYi happened, and then the greed never went away.

bradJul 18, 20154 votes

{quoted}

You forgot about Locket of the Iron Solari when you were listing the items tanks can get. Zz'rot Portal is also an option for split-pushing tanks (i.e. Shen).

You can't really directly compare MR values to armor values. Mages typically rely on their ability cooldowns to deal damage which AD champions can always autoattack while their abilities are on cooldown.

i did not forget it

i purposely left it out, because it gives 20 mr, and a 20 mr aura, that isnt given to the holder

essentially it gives less mr than null magic mantle. its so weak its not even worth bringing up

and to zz'rot, that item is built in .5% of all games, i think that speaks for itself

also: if you read my post, you would see that im not talking about the completed items, im talking about their build paths

Duke AnaxJul 19, 20156 votes

Not sure where you got that from, but of course aursa are given to the holder. If you two people with the same item they both even get double auras.

AtheosisXJul 19, 20153 votes

Zz'rot Portal is awesome. Regardless of how often it's built.

EndlessSorcererJul 19, 20158 votes

I'm really not sure where you got the idea that Aegis of the Legion doesn't provide it's aura to the owner of the item.

Aura items (i.e. Locket of the Iron Solari, Zeke's Herald) give their aura to the champion who owns the item.

Locket of the Iron Solari gives 40 MR to its holder and 20 MR to nearby allies.

In addition, someone who owns a Locket of the Iron Solari can receive the Legion aura from at most one other ally for a total of 60 MR, assuming two people on the same team have bought it.

Commonly built or not, Zz'rot Portal is still a legitimate MR items that tanks can purchase. You can't just ignore a perfectly viable option simply because it isn't popular and not expect to be called out on it.

I wasn't addressing your claims regarding build paths. I was arguing against your claim that Spirit Visage, Banshee's Veil, and Guardian Angel were the only legitimate MR items that most tanks could build.

Nameless VoiceJul 19, 20153 votes

Also forgotten: item 3060

It's more of a niche pick, but it does provide the 40 MR + aura and health from Aegis, while also giving decent AP and CDR for tanks who want a little more damage with their MR.

The active also helps against mages in another way, since it lets you negate some of their waveclear while sieging.

Jungle Lux GodJul 19, 20151 votes

To be fair, Banner really isn't that great on tanks compared to Locket.

Locket has 200 extra HP, costs 200 less gold, and has an active that helps you tank more.

Banner does have an extra 60 AP and the active, but it's not really something that tanks want.

Ironclad DragonJul 18, 20155 votes

But that'll hurt the precious mages.

Edit: That was sarcasm, you fool. I actually want to survive the AP characters.

BeersteinJul 18, 20152 votes

TL;DR Bring back Force of Nature ^_^

aaronautumnJul 18, 20152 votes

poopoopeepee best file name

junglerboy16Jul 19, 20152 votes

item 3001 item 3174 item 3060 item 3102 item 3026 item 3190 item 3156 item 3139 item 3111 item 3222 item 3065 item 3091 item 3512 are all of the MR items you can get on SR

item 3110 item 3026 item 3025 item 3047 item 3056 item 3143 item 3068 item 3075 item 3157 item 3512 are all the armor items on SR

The issue here isn't quantity, the issue here is quality. For armor, tanks have a plethora of styles, such as armor+MR, armor+CDR, armor+mana, armor+health, armor+return damage. Also, they have options that gives immense amounts of armor independently of other items (100 each from frozen heart and thorn mail) where for MR, no matter the item you can't get above 60 MR, and on a very undertuned item at that. Granted, the majority of MR items are tailored toward squishier champs since those are the ones most mages/AP assassins target most, but tanks should still be able to access a high MR item that is almost exclusively for the sake of getting a ton of MR. For example, an item with 80 MR and maybe a little health regen and/or move speed would be perfect for filling out the ranks of MR itemization. Funny, it's almost like bringing back an iteration of FoN is in order right now. that or they could add an item similar to the one they have for black market brawlers on PBE, where whenever you move you gain "momentum", a stacking move speed buff that lasts as long as you remain moving that can be discharged on your next AA for a little extra damage. add that passive to a 70-80 MR item and I think league would be a much better place.

Sir YamazukiJul 19, 20152 votes

{quoted}

are all of the MR items you can get on SR

are all the armor items on SR

The issue here isn't quantity, the issue here is quality. For armor, tanks have a plethora of styles, such as armor+MR, armor+CDR, armor+mana, armor+health, armor+return damage. Also, they have options that gives immense amounts of armor independently of other items (100 each from frozen heart and thorn mail) where for MR, no matter the item you can't get above 60 MR, and on a very undertuned item at that. Granted, the majority of MR items are tailored toward squishier champs since those are the ones most mages/AP assassins target most, but tanks should still be able to access a high MR item that is almost exclusively for the sake of getting a ton of MR. For example, an item with 80 MR and maybe a little health regen and/or move speed would be perfect for filling out the ranks of MR itemization. Funny, it's almost like bringing back an iteration of FoN is in order right now. that or they could add an item similar to the one they have for black market brawlers on PBE, where whenever you move you gain "momentum", a stacking move speed buff that lasts as long as you remain moving that can be discharged on your next AA for a little extra damage. add that passive to a 70-80 MR item and I think league would be a much better place.

He's talking about tanks, some tanks can not build most of those MR items.

junglerboy16Jul 19, 20151 votes

well of course he's talking about tanks, which is why I'm talking about tanks.

reading comprehension OP!

Sir YamazukiJul 19, 20152 votes

{quoted}

well of course he's talking about tanks, which is why I'm talking about tanks.

reading comprehension OP!

Yet you list items tanks can't build and call them an option for MR? Okay! Let me know when someone like Sej actually builds a Maw, a Wits, etc or when a Sion wants a Chalice, an Abyssal, etc

Your reading comprehension is op.

junglerboy16Jul 20, 20151 votes

I'm sorry that all you can do is look at the pretty pictures bub, but if you actually read the text of my post you'd see that my points was that there are plenty of MR items, just not enough mr items for tanks.

Here, I'll paraphrase it into pictures for you: item 3001 item 3174 item 3060 item 3102 item 3026 item 3190 item 3156 item 3139 item 3111 item 3222 item 3065 item 3091 item 3512 are all the finished mr items on SR. Tanks have limited options because they can only use , and none of them have high MR. we need a high MR item like FoN back in the game and more diverse tank oriented MR items.

Is that simplified enough for you?

Sir YamazukiJul 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I'm sorry that all you can do is look at the pretty pictures bub, but if you actually read the text of my post you'd see that my points was that there are plenty of MR items, just not enough mr items for tanks.

Here, I'll paraphrase it into pictures for you: are all the finished mr items on SR. Tanks have limited options because they can only use , and none of them have high MR. we need a high MR item like FoN back in the game and more diverse tank oriented MR items.

Is that simplified enough for you?

I didn't only look at the pictures, I only pointed out that it didn't matter how many MR items there were because we have tanks that scale off different stats, AD, AP, and some defensive stats, such as how someone like Galio can build Athene's but then Sion wouldn't. You never addressed the different types of tanks, where as that was the point of my response.

When people ask for tank items, they are asking for an item that is useful on all tanks, not some of them, so listing items is pointless when there's only a couple that actually matter. Comparing them to armor items is also pointless. There are more armor items because there's different ways physical damage dealers apply their damage where as most magic damage comes from spells with a few of them really even auto attacking as a major source of damage. That's why there are things like FH+Randuins to lower attack speed, where as you can't have a magic resist equivalent because having an item that increased cool downs would be silly. Auto attacks are also constant where as a lot of magic damage just come in bursts with a wait period between each. The issue isn't just that there isn't enough magic resist, it's that there aren't as many options to deal with magic damage that is constant in the way that there is for physical. Having high amounts of magic resist impacts mages with actual cool downs or are burst oriented more than it will impact champions who deal a lot of magic damage constantly because not only do some of them have burst, but they are also able to constantly attack you similar to an adc. Then there's the difference between physical based assassins and magic based assassins, a Zed won't care if you have 200~300 armor, but a Le Blanc isn't going to kill someone who has much less magic resist. Of course another issue is that no matter what a tank will generally always want armor as well, due to there being an adc 100% of the time, so it's rare they can build more than 1 magic resist item anyways.

Harrys Nut ShackJul 19, 20151 votes

[deleted]

Vistha KaiJul 19, 20151 votes

You didn't even bother to read what he wrote, did you?

LaceUp23Jul 19, 20152 votes

You only have 2 options for MR? Wut?

I've seen mages build item 3174 and item 3001 Tanks can build item 3102 item 3065 and item 3190 I see a decent amount of bruisers build item 3156 Adcs can build item 3139 Supports can build item 3222 or even
Everyone can build item 3026 item 3512 and item 3060 are very situational, but I've seen them used very well. And a shit ton of people build item 3111

Not too mention that AP champs have cooldowns and such, so it wouldn't exactly be smart to compare values of MR to Armor when champs can right click indefinitely.

bradJul 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You only have 2 options for MR? Wut?

I've seen mages build and Tanks can build and I see a decent amount of bruisers build Adcs can build Supports can build or even
Everyone can build and are very situational, but I've seen them used very well. And a shit ton of people build

Not too mention that AP champs have cooldowns and such, so it wouldn't exactly be smart to compare values of MR to Armor when champs can right click indefinitely.

did you read the post?

Leaf of the lakeJul 19, 20151 votes

Banshees, SV, locket, and zz'rot are plenty of pure tank options for MR. Between merc treads and one other MR item, you have more than enough MR for the game. If you're someone like sej or mumu you can even buy an abyssal if you want a more damage-focused item. If you're an ad bruiser that wants a little bit of damage, hexdrinker is one of the best items in the entire game. There really is no lack of good MR options in this game. The problem is entirely in the build paths, with the removal of negatron from the recipe of cowl.

DurzakaJul 19, 20151 votes

You didnt read the post did you?

He clearly said why BV and SV were a problem.

AbyssphereJul 18, 20151 votes

Do you want to be able to build the same amount of MR that you can build armor, or what?

Shroom JunkieJul 18, 20151 votes

To add to this man's post, magic damage usually does more... well, magic damage, than physical does. Now obviously there are exceptions, such as crits and whatnot, but overall most bursts of damage are a lot smaller than magic. Assassins, mages, etc., all burst damage and use their 4 abilities. No AA's or whatever, unlike AD champs, so its a lot of burst into 4 abilities. That means that you can defend against the AD coming in, from ADC's and whatnot, but nothing much of magic. One item can get 100 armor, which is Thornmail and Frozen Heart. Randuin's can get 70 and 500 health. Sunfire cape can get 45 and 450 health. And Frozen Heart and Randuin's lower the DPS of AD champs, while Thornmail punishes them for attacking you.

However, there are no real magic resist items. The highest magic resist you can get in one item 55 magic resist in Spirit Visage, and the only item that protects more against magic damage is Hexdrinker/Maw of Malmortius, which both require you to be AD.

Nameless VoiceJul 19, 20152 votes

The thing you're missing here is that mages deal their burst damage and are then useless. You don't need as much magic resistance to survive a mage as you need armour to survive a marksman because the amount of damage that aa mage can normally do us limited, while a marksman's damage is constant. Magic resistance stops a mage from killing you; armour just slows a marksman down. Health is also more effective against mages for the same reason - it takes you out of their "burst zone."

There are exceptions, of course, like Cassiopeia and Ryze.

LilxPaprikaJul 18, 20151 votes

i like the post meteos made about item 3105 . Maybe looking into this would help with magic resist. if there was an armor aura item I feel like armor items would have to be different as well. so can't looking into MR without factoring into the mix. https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/3d0zyb/lets_talk_about_aegis_of_the_legion_meteos/

CatastropJul 19, 20151 votes

Bring back Runic Bulwark!!!! And as someone pointed out before this, bring back Force of Nature as well!!!

MohawkBirdJul 19, 20151 votes

I really don't see anything wrong in the build path for the two main MR items. Frozen Heart and Thornmail are supposed to have more armor in their build paths considering they are the items to get if you just want tons of armor. Don't compare Spirit Visage and Banshees Veil to Frozen Heart and Thornmail. What you should be comparing them with is Randuins and Sunfire. Randuins and Sunfire is practically the MR counterpart of Banshee's and Spirit Visage.

When you compare the items the MR versions aren't bad at all. They both give a considerable amount of health along with 55 MR, plus their passives are amazing.

You also talked about how you have to sit on 35 MR until you can finish the item. The same can be said about both Sunfire and Randuin's. You have to sit on 40 armor to complete Sunfire, while 45 armor to complete Randuin's.

SaltyKrackaJul 19, 20151 votes

So you see nothing wrong with the idea that THE two MR items for tanks map better to mixed defensive items than to pure defensive items?

Let's face it, we need a pure MR defensive item.

Leaf of the lakeJul 19, 20153 votes

Pure MR isn't actually that effective. Remember the health stacking meta? Burst damage on a cooldown is only threatening when it can kill you. Health is one way to stop it from killing you. Tanks typically favor armor over MR because they only need some small amount of MR and a lot of health to survive burst, while the armor lets them stick around for a long time through sustained AA damage.

Health is always a faster way to get tanky than buying resistances. This is why we don't see zz'rot more. Since it gives no health of its own, you need to stack health on other items to make it effective.

Irelia BotJul 19, 20151 votes

I would say we need black king bar in league but that would be all around broken on some champs.

One item that needs to be removed/changed is Spectre's Cowl

Yes I know health and MR is a good combo but I would much rather have something like

Null-Magic Mantle (500) + rejuv bead (180) + rejuv bead (180) + 140g = Spectre's Cowl (1000 gold)

35 MR Passive (semi restricted as in max of 2): Increase base hp5 by 1+ .25level (wording for this is weird but the idea is that it will make other hp5 healing stronger) +50% base hp5 (yes this would be the champs base Hp5 + the other passive on this item so a champ with 6 HP5 woth this item at level 5 would have (6+2)(1+.5)= 12)

It would be a reasonable item for a champ that doesn't have sustain and is not so fiercly aimed at becoming a tank item that it can't becoem more of a hybrid item.

And 2 of these could combine to become a new force of nature 2650 gold 75 MR 3 + .5*level base hp5 +100% hp5 Unique passive: 7% movement speed

And don't underestimate the healing form an item like this since it would be for a champ with 18 base Hp5 at level 18 would have (18+12)*(1+1.0)=60 HP5

But this is jsut me recalling how nice it was to have a go to MR item that didn't beat around the bush with a spell shield or increasing healing by 20%. Other items give good amounts of health making the health on MR items kinda not needed if a good MR item were to exist.

This new Spectre's Cowl could also be put on some other items with less healing offered then the new FoN

Rain NTJul 19, 20151 votes

You have no idea how much I miss FoN... It was such a good item.. dont know why they removed. It wasnt even that OP

TheSlogsJul 19, 20151 votes

And then you realize that just after buying one mantle you win lane against any ap champion because the only sources of damage they have are reduced and still have cooldowns. There are abilities so many abilities that do less than 100 damage early game and they are on cooldowns. If you use AD and auto someone with 100 AD (one long sword plunes runes, masteries and a decent level on many people) you are getting the same damage on a cooldown of barely over a second.

MarthianJul 19, 20151 votes

And unless you have obscene amounts of damage, if the other team has a good amount of MR (one big MR item +Locket aura) you are basically forced to build Void Staff. AP got massive diversity, but that's still a problem.

TheSlogsJul 19, 20151 votes

Diversity as in everyone that wants to do as much damage as they did before the item change has to buy Rabadon's no matter what.

SukishooJul 19, 20151 votes

in the picture are all the magic resistance items in the game currently

Incorrect. Those are all the ones on SR.

I'm sorry but I love building item 3190 item 3060 on tanks, so item 3026 item 3065 item 3102 are not the only ones.

bradJul 19, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Incorrect. Those are all the ones on SR.

I'm sorry but I love building on tanks, so are not the only ones.

you are missing the fucking point entirely

SukishooJul 20, 20151 votes

lol someone is mad.

JustMyBassCannonJul 19, 20151 votes

And here, I thought the thread was going to be about MR costing more than starting gold.

Hinagiku33Jul 20, 20151 votes

First off - item 3111 - kinda core on Tanks with both MR and Tenacity, just sayin'

Second - Riot has already addressed multiple times why the 'problem' you see will never be 'fixed' the way you want

Why do you want higher MR on a single item instead of just getting another MR item? Because you can only afford 1 or 2 item slots to it since you need tons of health and armor to slow the AD Carry down. This is because Mages are ability-oriented and are (mostly) gated by cooldowns while AD Carries just pew pew you ~twice a second for high damage for no resource. Obviously armor is far, far more vital to the survival of a Tank than MR will ever be.
Why do you even want more than ~150 MR on a Tank? Are Mages just taking giant chunks out of your health every time they poke you, or do you just feel that Mages shouldn't be allowed to scratch your health? I was around for League of Super Tanks - it's not something Riot wants to go back to. If you can completely negate the Mage's damage for only 1-2 item slots something is severely wrong since they already have to wait for cooldowns to poke you again. Oh, and you can still get tons or armor to keep the AD Carry down making you nigh-unkillable unless all 5 of them hit you together. That's not balanced and Riot has already said they will never make 70-80 MR items for this reason.
Have you heard of Bruisers? If Tanks can gimp Mages for 1-2 item slots then so can Bruisers, in addition to their 1 offensive item and a couple health/armor items. How would you like to play a Mage and have a Bruiser dive you that you literally cannot hurt? 'Cause that used to happen and it wasn't fun.
It's called trade-offs. If you want to gimp Mages then you have to devote more item slots to it and make yourself vulnerable to AD Carries. If the enemy team has a lot of magic damage dealer and/or their AD Carry is terrible, then just get more MR items instead of asking for a super MR item that solves all your needs in one convenient item slot that would just be abused better by Bruisers.

bradJul 20, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fiora All Night,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iEQEtU7G,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2015-07-20T00:43:19.909+0000)

First off - - kinda core on Tanks with both MR and Tenacity, just sayin'

Second - Riot has already addressed multiple times why the 'problem' you see will never be 'fixed' the way you want

Why do you want higher MR on a single item instead of just getting another MR item? Because you can only afford 1 or 2 item slots to it since you need tons of health and armor to slow the AD Carry down. This is because Mages are ability-oriented and are (mostly) gated by cooldowns while AD Carries just pew pew you ~twice a second for high damage for no resource. Obviously armor is far, far more vital to the survival of a Tank than MR will ever be.

Why do you even want more than ~150 MR on a Tank? Are Mages just taking giant chunks out of your health every time they poke you, or do you just feel that Mages shouldn't be allowed to scratch your health? I was around for League of Super Tanks - it's not something Riot wants to go back to. If you can completely negate the Mage's damage for only 1-2 item slots something is severely wrong since they already have to wait for cooldowns to poke you again. Oh, and you can still get tons or armor to keep the AD Carry down making you nigh-unkillable unless all 5 of them hit you together. That's not balanced and Riot has already said they will never make 70-80 MR items for this reason.

Have you heard of Bruisers? If Tanks can gimp Mages for 1-2 item slots then so can Bruisers, in addition to their 1 offensive item and a couple health/armor items. How would you like to play a Mage and have a Bruiser dive you that you literally cannot hurt? 'Cause that used to happen and it wasn't fun.

It's called trade-offs. If you want to gimp Mages then you have to devote more item slots to it and make yourself vulnerable to AD Carries. If the enemy team has a lot of magic damage dealer and/or their AD Carry is terrible, then just get more MR items instead of asking for a super MR item that solves all your needs in one convenient item slot that would just be abused better by Bruisers.

r e a d

t h e

p o s t

CindikleJul 20, 20151 votes

Locket and Merc Threads are also common MR items.

IMO the problem isn't the lack of options. It's the fact that the current options cover so much.

BV is a ball of everything you want to fight casters. SV is niche. Locket helps the whole team and is powerful if you're mostly facing AD where the aura is enough for the team.

Also each roll has options for MR. AD's have no choices in armor to build.

And magic damage generally comes in bursts. That's why you build both HP and MR. Armor is about the sustained damage. Champions that are out of this ideal tend to be balanced around it (Teemo, Kayle, Lulu). AP sustained damage also doesn't crit and AP AS items are overall limited to Nashers and maybe Hurricane.

In short, MR itemization doesn't need a buff. It needs a rework.