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@Riot, what do we have to do to get you guys to answer us?

Melledoneus··7 votes·472 views

There are so many threads about the problems with balance, especially with the upcoming Shen rework and Jhin's release. We want to know what's happening, we want to feel like we can make change as a community to a game we all know and love. We only complain about this game because we want it to improve, because we love it that much.

Hell, you're reworking a champion mained by many tank players and you haven't shed any light as to why you did some things, like reduce his scaling armor in half or make his kit entirely based around a CC skillshot dash that's already incredibly hard to land on mobile champs without fixing the actual taunt on it.

Riot, please don't let our cries for answers fall on deaf ears. If you guys made the boards to discuss the game, then please partake with us.

I appreciate efforts like RiotRepertoir's mega-thread (even though I know that was a little extreme for Rioters), so why can't we see Meddler or Scarizard on the boards more often? Where is the designer of the Shen rework to help Shen players mold a champion they can grow to like rather than throw something new at them? Why can't we have Designer Q&As more often, instead of only when something is shipped to live already?

Riot, if anyone is reading this, just type up a simple response to answer this. I know people usually break their keyboards out of frustration typing up a volatile thread on the board, but it will only be upvoted if the community agrees. Just answer these three questions:

  1. If Rioters don't visit, what's the purpose of the boards besides being another Reddit?

  2. Will you ever consider talking to the PLAYERS of the champion you're reworking in order to make a champion that they can feel at home playing?

  3. Is there a reason as to why Riot avoids discussing balance with their players? Am I supposed to send a support ticket to voice my opinion? I know that time is not the most abundant, but can't you dedicate at least half an hour to answer quick questions on the boards?

Riot, we as a community need to have communication with the company. Otherwise, you guys will feel too distant like Blizzard, where players give up on trying to talk about anything because they know Blizzard doesn't care. Don't be Blizzard, Riot.

18 Comments

Troiann2 votes

It basically is another reddit.

And honestly, have you seen some of the people on this board? Spamming "buff immobile mage so weak" and "nerf all assassins that can kill immobile mage" all the damn time. Most of the people are flat out selfish and want nothing more than to increase their chances of collecting freelo.

Melledoneus3 votes

But if people agree with them, and the thread gets 200+ upvotes, Riot should at least take a look at it. If something about balance is so popular, show up and give a statement.

It's like the rally that's slowly turning into the riot and the government doesn't say a word. They ignore the people and their frustrations just escalate.

IronwallJackson2 votes

Lyte, Meddler, and another Red have commented on this subject in particular. Just because a thread had a lot of upvotes doesn't make it worth the Rioter's time to respond. They can see them and thus take note of community concerns, but unless a concise point is being made, a good question is being asked, and/or these things are easy to parse, then that thread becomes a sinkhole for that Rioter's time, and they can spend entirely too long to make a minute impact.

Also, the higher-upvote threads tend to be either subjects already discussed in the past or are simply a collection of displeasure and mob mentality. Neither of these things are conducive to good discussion.

Melledoneus1 votes

True, but if the community upvotes a thread labeled "Something we want for the Shen rework," shouldn't a Rioter at least take a minute to note that it's been noted? Or that they won't do it?

Hell, I'll take "no" over being ignored any day.

IronwallJackson2 votes

In the case of something as close to being finalized as the Shen Rework, there's really nothing much for the Red's to do. Once something like that hits the PBE, there's a good chance that it won't change much, not unless part of that something just straight up doesn't work for one reason or another.

However, for more work in progress subjects, they do take note of request and such. It's just that mechanics are done waaay before visuals and numbers are presentable, so suggestions are much less useful by the time that most people get wind of those imminent changes.

AND ALSO

I think it was Meddler who said that the design staff tend to not look at mechanics-focused suggestions all that much, since looking at them rarely, if ever, yields anything of use. On top of that, shooting down that sort of suggestion takes more time than just saying "no." A good response requires a more thoughtful, detailed response, and then we hit the "lots of time, little impact" issue from before.

Melledoneus1 votes

But if we just wanted something as small as "Don't let Shen's sword show up when he's in the fog of war," it can be done. Just show up and say something like "We feel that would create little counterplay" and whatnot. I would be satisfied with a paragraph, if an answer at all. If anyone else isn't satisfied, then they're looking for more where there's nothing to be found.

IronwallJackson1 votes

I'm pretty sure that exactly that question was answered with a more elaborate version of that answer.

Melledoneus1 votes

Could you provide a link? Because I did not see anything answering that question.

IronwallJackson1 votes

Let me try and see if I can dig it up.

UPDATE: It's apparently buried in some Reddit thread, so that sucks.

Melledoneus1 votes

Hate it when that happens. Also, Reddit thread? I wasn't aware they talked fully about it on Reddit of all places.

Troiann2 votes

When Riven was disabled some random low elo shitter made a thread to "permanently delete riven plox", and it got 800 upvotes.

The board is a pathetic joke in looking for quality posts.

It's like the millions of people who want trump to be gunned down (I actually agree with this), but the government isn't going to force him out of the presidency. No matter how much people hate him.

At least in the trump case the hate is justified.

Melledoneus1 votes

Ok, joke threads are different. "Delete Riven plox" was a joke thread and people found it funny and agreeable, even though nobody would sincerely recommend that. Riot doesn't have to answer those, except to show up and make a joke of their own if they so wished to.

More serious threads, however, asking about "why is this" or "can we do this" are much more important to answer. Hell, I have no clue why they reduced Shen's scaling armor. And I know that I'll most likely never find out because Riot doesn't like to talk about stat changes usually.

Earl Eulrich1 votes

as is, it seems we have to quit alltogether for sth. to be heard - unfortunatly then it´ll be too late, for Riot and for this game (and for the players that once enjoyed the unique mix of lore, strategy and mechanics).

Melledoneus1 votes

Rioters are people, too, you know. I just wish they made a better system of communication with the players rather than, "I'm bored. I'll check the boards every now and then."

Earl Eulrich1 votes

you know, i wouldnßt mind them making mistakes every now and then...that´s only human. But not having the courage to admit were you have gone wrong so you can pull back and try it anew...that´s just not really sth. one can overlook. They did so with the lore back then, now they killed the strategy-part of the game and refuse to say anything apart from "everything is going in a good direction".

just time to acceppt this is not the great game it once has been and it most likly will never be that again. it primed in S2 and now it seems to have lost all its appeal finally.

IronwallJackson1 votes

I can probably answer your third question because it's really quite easy. Riot doesn't have staff with the both the time and expertise to get down to the nitty-gritty of balance discussion. They have staff that have time to make that sort of post, and they have staff that have the actual knowledge to make that sort of post, but those are pretty much mutually exclusive groups.

Then there's the fact that the numbers in champion's kit are determined by a different group than those who design the kit themselves. Time and knowledge are spread around, it cannot be easy to put them all together. I mean, think about it. If you have an employee who is intimately familiar with the intricacies of a lot of different champions, then you can get more out of that employee by putting them in the designs or balance department rather than making them sit on the forums all day.

Finally, I imagine that a great deal of the discussions one could have becomes meaningless to the uninformed. Riot has millions upon millions of data points to help guide their decision-making. Looking at all of this is what helps the team decide that, say, MF's E needs to be scaled back, but they can't communicate all of that raw data, so they have to default to something like "Miss Fortune is currently overtuned."

FooDang1 votes

  1. Forums are for discussions between players and not a discussion between players and RIOT.

  2. No, they have people they pay to balance/ rework champions and don't have time to have a discussion with the thousands of players that have an opinion on whatever project they are working on. Information will be put out via patch notes.

  3. They don't need to tell the masses why they balance because most players don't have top tier mechanics the so they dont understand the balance reasoning. If you didn't know, RIOT balances around Master/challenger tier.

Melledoneus2 votes

  1. Riot prides itself (well, used to) on being open and colloquial with players. Their player-staff relations are supposed to be good.

  2. Ok? So if something isn't covered in the patch notes, how do we find out?

  3. So Riot is Blizzard now? They just ignore their playerbase and keep tolling out content. They don't NEED to release new champions or update existing ones. They don't NEED to come up with cool systems like Hextech crafting. But they do it. And that's what we've come to expect from Riot.

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