Boards›Gameplay

If you have a tumor you don't just trim some pieces of it away...

Malicious Metal··212 votes·7,538 views

You outright REMOVE it.

Yes, this metaphor's supposed to showcase Riot's way of trying to nerf Ekko. They've been chipping off power all around his kit for the past 10 or so patches.

And you know what? These nerfs did absolutely nothing, in fact I feel they even gave more reasons to just go Tank/Bruiser Ekko.

The thing making this play style so very damn effective is not a SINGLE thing but rather about 10 or so things this "Utility assassin"'s got in the mess that is his kit. Why take risks and play him as an assassin when you can just get everything his kit provides with almost no risk by playing him tank. You get DPS; EXTREME stickiness, CC, mobility and a safety net while also doing decent damage.

Instead of nerfing some aspects of his kit I feel it's about time you outright REMOVE something in his wide arsenal of tools.

Hell, I'd say removing his passive slow would be a great start.

Assassin Ekko wouldn't need the slow, he'll kill the squishy in one rotation and proc of his passive and use the MS boost to GTFO Repeatedly proccing his passive is what makes him such a pest to deal with and I feel removing some of his excess CC would be a step in the right direction.

238 Comments

lil koda62 votes

i dont understand why they dont nerf his passive, the ms/slow it provides is absolutely insane and unfair even the damage on it is dumb as fuck

Squidward Dab25 votes

Because riot always pull the same excuse "it would ruin his thematics and we wouldn't want to do that" -proceeds to nerf irrelevant shit in his kit, then nerfs the main points, doesn't revert the others.

But you'll also have some Ekko mains who scream out "he doesn't delete anyone until he gets some items!!1!1!" But that can be applied to EVERY SINGLE champion, Ekko doesn't deserve a free pass from this

YumaS2Astral15 votes

[{quoted}](name=Squidward Dab,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iBR4IbtV,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2016-09-08T00:45:58.240+0000)

Because riot always pull the same excuse "it would ruin his thematics and we wouldn't want to do that" -proceeds to nerf irrelevant shit in his kit, then nerfs the main points, doesn't revert the others.

But you'll also have some Ekko mains who scream out "he doesn't delete anyone until he gets some items!!1!1!" But that can be applied to EVERY SINGLE champion, Ekko doesn't deserve a free pass from this

They did that with Kassadin and Malzahar in the past

They did various nerfs on Kassadin, but the main thing that needed nerfs (his ult) remained intact until Riot finally realized that it was this ultimate that was the root of problem, they finally nerfed its range but then Kassadin already had the rest of his kit nerfed. Riot refused to revert previous nerfs, and it took months of buffs in some patches to allow Kassadin to be finally playable again without him being broken.

They recently did that with Malzahar too. They nerfed the rest of his kit, but Malzahar remained with an above 52% winrate on average, at both mid and top lane. It was only when they finally nerfed the passive duration and cooldown, that Malzahar's winrate had a significant drop. Which shows how much of Malzahar's power is tied to his passive; because the rest of his kit is actually a significant nerf compared to what old Malzahar used to be, his passive is the only reason why Malzahar could thrive all this time.

Squidward Dab5 votes

Honestly they should just nerf the main problems a bit instead of going full ham with the nerf hammer on other parts of their kits. That way they aren't fully destroyed but their main cause of imbalance is solved.

Fuck the whole thematics shit. Like I understand the theme plays a part but would u rather have a champ that isn't balanced but stayed strong to its theme, or take away a bit of the theme for a bit more balance

Reposer5 votes

Nah, all the mains in the Ekko club seem to want exactly this. Just remove the slow and give something small back to AP Ekko, maybe more damage scaling, movespeed (Movespeed scaling poss?). I hate that Ekko got shoved into the limelight with all this tank garbo, because beforehand he was just an underpicked assassin, that was run AP tank in jungle or top. Now that people have had to deal with his broken ass tank builds, they hate the champ much more than before.

MrryZ2 votes

Basically. He just needs a reduction in offensive utility (slows and stuff) and move some of that over to speed buffs. His AP build isn't entirely unbalanced right now so if they try make any drastic changes they're probably going to upset that balance which is why they're chipping away at him right now but they really need to start making bigger, mroe impactful changes soon to fix him.

Troll for Trump27 votes

Same with Yasuo.

If you're going to argue pro-yas, you can also argue pro-EKko.

Both are in the same boat. Cancerous, overloaded champs.

WinTheWarOnPants9 votes

it's a matter of scale though. there are a quite few overloaded champs Thresh LeeSin Leblanc Nidalee Elise Mordekaiser TahmKench Yasuo Zed depending on where you draw the line, but some are MUCH more problematic than others and Ekko is at the very top as far as overloaded champs go.

Spaceman5pff48 votes

You just criticized Mordekaiser on a Malicious Metal thread [zombie-brand-mindblown] May any and all gods have mercy on your soul.

EDIT: this might be the most upvotes I have ever gotten (probably bc i like to play devils advocate a lot on the boards) I wanna give a shoutout to mom and dad for helping me get here....

GULAG 4 U10 votes

G, fuking, g.

Malicious Metal25 votes

I don't see how Morde's overloaded. He's got damage, more damage, durability and damage.

But that's about it. His utility's bound to him being able to kill something and get a clone, not counting that lousy MS buff his W provides.

Kinda curious what made you list him.

WinTheWarOnPants3 votes

he didn't used to be, but i think his rework is a bit overloaded since they had to overload him in order to force him bot. he's not the most overloaded, but his W and ult are specifically overloaded(I mean have you seen the ability synopsis for his W on http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Mordekaiser ?). like i said it's a matter of degree. i would put mord on the lower side, but i would say he's overloaded now nonetheless. i left a few champs out of that list as well since it was just to make a point that it's not just yas and ekko that are overloaded. overloaded =/= broken cause some champs are fine even though they are a tad overloaded since what's considered overloaded changes slightly with time as the "average" kit gets more complex.

Malicious Metal13 votes

The things they overloaded him with have been nerfed to nonexistence. XP passive's become useless and his ultimate's dragon ghost has been trimmed down to moderate power.

Want me to summarize his W: Two Circles, They touch, deal damage Reactivate for an AoE hp drain.

There, done.

Unlike someone like Ekko Mordekaiser's abilities are all straight forward in that they deal damage and maybe have a secondary effect. And all that math on his ultimate's necessary seeing that it literally creates another unit.

He's not as simple as let's say Garen but his kit's more similar to Garen's style in terms of numbers of effects rather than let's say Zed.

If you go with Text as a measurement of being overloaded Jhin or Illaoi would be worse offenders than Ekko. Only their passives in themselves take up double the space of most champ's ability descriptions.

EROTIC RAID BOSS3 votes

that's actually morde's problem, he doesn't do anything other than high damage. dude needs his full rework.

Malicious Metal8 votes

Yes, his problem lies in him being literally 0 utility and all damage.

Hell, I'm stoked on what Riot will do to my Main Metal Man. (Fingers crossed for some badass defensive buff similar to his old W, the particles on their own would be so crisp!)

Sad Tyrant2 votes

maybe Rito will invite you to give feedback and Playtest since you are the most Vocal Mordekaiser player

WinTheWarOnPants5 votes

they completely ignored "Overlorde Forte" on syndra changes, so pardon if i don't have much faith in riot lol

ReportTheSinged1 votes

I remember them telling malicious they would talk to him when they did a morde rework

WinTheWarOnPants5 votes

http://giphy.com/gifs/LOFrydAoHo7D2/html5

WinTheWarOnPants5 votes

just because the numbers are weak doesn't mean that it's not there. if it's overloaded when strong then it's still overloaded when weak. since i think "overloaded" is parts of a kit that are excessive/hidden and unnessesary for the champ to fullfill their role. of course this isn't completely objective since it depends on your point of reference, being that it is relative on other champs in the game. you missed that a few points on W being

  1. free bonus passive XP on kills(you mentioned it, but you mentioned it separately)
  2. aoe dmg over time when touching for duration
  3. movespeed buff moving toward each other
  4. reactivated 2nd dmg aoe dmg
  5. heal

but i don't really want to argue about this since 1. mord isn't a problem 2. i will never win an upvote war against malicious metal. and 3. my whole point isn't about mord anyway lol it's that he and quite a few champs CAN an are considered overloaded by some people, because the line between overloaded and not is gray and slowly changes over time.

THE RlVER KlNG4 votes

Tahm Kench is far from overloaded.

WinTheWarOnPants3 votes

very surprised someone named "the river king" would say that lol but to each their own. it's ok to admit it though "denile isn't just a river and egypt" and all that. i love playing Elise and Nidalee and RekSai but just cause they are overloaded doesn't mean they aren't fun/good champs.

THE RlVER KlNG6 votes

He's immobile as fuck with a shitty healing steroid and one unique utility move. There are at least thirty or forty champions I would call overloaded before TK, although bias probably does come into play here.

Anyways, unlike Morde or Ekko, there isn't a page of text on each ability. Devour is the only long ability description and that is because it can be used in multiple ways fitting to a thematic, not because it's inherently hard to use or understand.

WinTheWarOnPants5 votes

he has % of his max hp dmg bonus dmg on autos and abilities, Q does dmg, has a 2 sec slow, and a 1.5 second stun on marked targets that can also grab enemy minions from range,

W can eat enemy minions and shoot them for aoe dmg, eat allies to save them from literally anything while getting a MS boost toward enemies, can eat enemy champs to 1. suppress them 2. displace them 3. near sight them 4. deal MASSIVE %max health and 5. stun them after. (if this ability isnt "overloaded" idk what is.)

E gives him grey health that can either heal him for a % of dmg taken, or be activated for the biggest potential shield in the entire game.

ult is a massive range 2 man teleport(the most straightforward ability in his kit)

in conclusion, i would consider him "overloaded" specifically his % of his max hp dmg passive, %max hp dmg on W, stun on W, and stun on Q IMO

THE RlVER KlNG3 votes

You can make any champion overloaded. For example, a simple as fuck champion like Garen.

Passive can potentially heal back his entire health bar, or at least a large portion of it. Q is a spammable movement speed auto attack enhancer that deals high damage and silences, preventing the enemy from fighting back at full efficiency, or perform a host of other purposes that a spell can, including, but not limited to, healing allies, CCing enemy carries, using mobility spells to escape, securing or finishing a kill on the target's target. It also removes slows, furhter granting him an edge over his opponent and allowing him to escape situations other champions would not have been able to. W grants him one of the largest damage reduction steroids in the game, and he also gains armor and magic resist, free stats, from simply farming, which lets him get very tanky almost for free. E is an AoE damage spell that can deal large multiples of his AD while also critically striking to everyone around him, with bonus damage to isolated targets. R grants Garen bonus true %damage against strong enemies, while also being potentially the most deadly execute in the game (tied with perhaps only Veigar ult) that also does true damage vs targets who are on a killing spree.

WinTheWarOnPants6 votes

come on man... we both know this comment and mine are nothing alike... please don't insult both of our intelligence this way. all you did was list his abilities by being overly wordy, redundant, and straight up giving false info.

"preventing the enemy from fighting back at full efficiency, or perform a host of other purposes that a spell can, including, but not limited to, healing allies, CCing enemy carries, using mobility spells to escape, securing or finishing a kill on the target's target."

wtf is this^ you said absolutely nothing here and lied about his Q. he cannot heal anyone with his Q idk where you pulled that from. here is how i would list garens abilities and how i listed tahm kechs...

passive %max hp regen while out of combat.

Q slow clense and MS boost, plus silence on next auto(also auto reset)

W gains free armor passively with minion kills and dmg reduction active

E deals AOE dmg that can crit and lets garen move through units

ult passively- marks a villian(enemy with most kills in last 5 min(except kills on garen)), gives 1% tue dmg agianst villian on autos and E proc, and true dmg instead of magic on ult vs villian active- deals flat single target magic dmg +missing HP

the only time i broke away from simply listing his ablities was on his shield"activated for the biggest potential shield in the entire game" instead of "activated for 70-90% dmg taken".

InHaruhiWeTrust5 votes

holy shit this is complete nonsense... did you really think this was even good as satire lmao but hell... why make an argument when you can just shitpost.

EROTIC RAID BOSS3 votes

I could make teemo sound overloaded if this is how you define overloaded lmao.

talk about shitposting

WinTheWarOnPants3 votes

do it then lol i took time to write that message and you just call it "shitposting"(ignoring what shitposting actually is) when someone bothers to reply to you...

EROTIC RAID BOSS1 votes

you want me to use my time to make fun of your ridiculous post through satire?

river king already did it with garen. you're just calling any champ you dislike overloaded and then trying to justify it by regurgitating their whole kit. tahm is a fairly simple champ with pretty clear strengths and weaknesses. If he's overloaded I don't think there are any champs in this game that aren't overloaded.

WinTheWarOnPants5 votes

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/77/77e5df1d20903d3a17b049663a127f1168e82d8ca32e296a6c9b003ab4f47fb4.jpg i'm sorry i wasted my time

EROTIC RAID BOSS4 votes

peoples idea of cancerous is literally just anything high mobility

ekko isn't cancerous when he's played AP, or yasuo with a standard crit build

Lauchmelder20 votes

MM in Gameplay, you know that Sh!t just hit the fan.

I agree on that, Ekko got a broken kit, not broken numbers.

Malicious Metal11 votes

His kit on its own is actually rather well designed. But it's just.... too much, honestly.

Take a look at other assassins; They got their poke spell, their mobility/gapcloser, their wave clear and so on.

then there's Ekko who's got most of those things AS WELL as hard cc, an abundance of slows and other utility.

Chromatic Eagle1 votes

What else would you change besides the passive? I think the Q is fine. I don't think people complain about the E.

Squidward Dab1 votes

Actually some people do have a problem with his e, it's mostly the fact that even teemo blinds him the auto dmg amp still procs cuz apparently it doesn't count as an actual aa, just a dmg amp

Or they could just remove the missing% hp passive from his w that would be nice

Anidan2 votes

The missing %hp being on his shield just reeks of 'TACKED ON' to me. It doesn't fit his theme in the slightest and I feel like they did it out of some fear that otherwise he wouldn't have enough damage, which is absurd because if that was actually true they could buff his damage instead of adding random sources of it elsewhere.

LankPants10 votes

It's time for Riot to treat Ekko like tho other cancer champs who came before him like Yorick and Warwick. Gut him so remorselessly and thoroughly that he never sees play again and throw him to the back of the rework queue where he can rot for the next two years.

DemiMax2 votes

They don't do that because he makes LCS Big Plays.

BastionKross2 votes

The short answer: No because favoritism.

The long answer: Riot stated somewhere in season 5 that they would try to make small nerfs to problem champions over several patches instead of one big nerf in a single patch as they did in previous seasons (including WW and Yorick). This would reduce the amount of "dumpstering" and "Olaf-ing" and would lead to better balance and more diversity since less champions would be overly nerfed at any given time.

What happened instead was that some champions still get those one patch big nerfs to dumpsterville while some flashy, popular champs get to be too strong for months on end while every patch there's some meaningless little nerfs for them. Riot uses this system to push players into playing stronger, more stream-friendly champs so that Riot can grab more views for their product on pro and high level streams.

I mean who are you going to watch on Twitch; a streamer playing Ekko and murdering people while zipping around a fight, or a streamer playing Malphite where you only start paying attention when his ult is off CD? Riot favors champions who people like to sit down and watch, so those champions get treated with kid gloves when it comes time for the nerf bat. If Ekko ever stopped being spectator friendly, the live balance team would gut his kit and send him down to the same level as Kalista and Urgot.

The Candy Pirate9 votes

They need to pick between mobility, survival-ability, and damage. He shouldn't excel at all of them....

TAScientist9 votes

Riot: long-ass list of reasons why ekko is broken

proceeds to remove a few points of base AD instead of addressing actual problems in his kit

EROTIC RAID BOSS2 votes

its the worlds patch they can't make big changes to anyone

Sahn Uzal6 votes

Holy fuck, someone is done with Ekko's bullshit o.o

Malicious Metal4 votes

Actually not. I just coached my brother through his Plat IV promos by making him pick Morde into every Top lane Ekko.

What I'm sick of is seeing my squishies being unable to do ANYTHING against this abomination. Seriously, it hurts me almost as much as them seeing them fall.

And I really want to be able to ban other things instead of seeing every bruiser assassin banned every single game^^'

Sahn Uzal7 votes

this abomination.

Well described.

Do you remember that one game where I played Toplane Gangplank vs Tank Ekko? I won the laningphase, got really fed etc. Was running around with item 3078 item 3142 item 3111 item 3036 item 1038 where Ekko had item 3078 item 3047 item 3143 and I think one GA component.

He was trying to take our second top tower, I teleported to stop him. It took me multiple barrels, passive procs, my ultimate and my flash to not get killed under my tower.

I remember that game pretty well just because of how wrong it was Ekko shouldn't have been in a position to even be close to diving me...

He won't tilt me like Riven, Fiora or Fizz could... But holy fuck is he an annoying son of a bitch

Nymzo3 votes

I'll say it and say it again: remove his slow on his passif and buff/nerf his numbers if you want but PLZ just change his ult

Like, is it that hard to just give what he had in the trailer? Make his ult like a lb's w but like kass ult, has no cd but will use more mana the more you use it.

Only help on the hit and run strat of Ekko while keeping his theme.

JESUSSAYSNO3 votes

AP ekko was a genius design and his gameplay was fun, fair, and balanced for both players, at least after the innitial nerfs. Tank ekko ruined him.

Ekko is one of a few champs that I think have been absolutely ruined by off-builds, and if he was build locked to AP, there wouldn't be any problems with his kit.

Dr Poro2 votes

I was hoping for a Yasuo thread. But yeah, removing the slow from his passive is something I've been suggesting since he was on PBE.

Malicious Metal4 votes

Change a few words around and you can apply the same format to yasuo.

Though I have to admit Ekko's got way more stuff crammed into his kit. It's a ton of small things that make him so utterly disgusting to face while Yasuo got fewer things but their level of BS is higher than Ekko's individual skills.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Malicious Metal

The one buff Karthus NEEDS
Gameplay126 comments
464
votes
Viktor's Patch 6.9 entry shows that whoever worked on Vik has no idea who he truly is >_>
Gameplay224 comments
414
votes
I have achieved my final form!
Memes & Games62 comments
320
votes
There's actually an ingenious way to solve the whole FQC and Ap CDR crisis
Gameplay223 comments
280
votes
A champion should NEVER be made more clunky/less satisfying to play (Regarding Viktor's PBE changes)
Gameplay140 comments
279
votes
Malphite will be the best Camille counter
Memes & Games60 comments
257
votes