Shaco stealth vs Eveylnn and Rengar

ScumbagZed·9/28/2016, 7:00:57 PM·4 votes·1,139 views

Why do rengar and Evelynn have a "!" popup when they are near you, but shaco doesn't? From my gameplay experiences playing against an eveylnn or rengar is manageable, but Shaco can literally appear out of nowhere with no pre-warning and most of the time when he does it results in you dying. I feel like if Shaco's ability (whatever skill key its on I cant remember atm) had a popup warning when he's near you it would make his gameplay less cancerous and not literally COMPLETELY change how I have to play lane phase.

Note: I know that Shaco isn't a problem above like plat-ish, but for players around my skill level in gold shaco is a real problem and one of the most toxic champions to play against.

15 Comments

Slythion9/28/2016, 7:09:54 PM3 votes

That would pretty much ruin shaco's kit as his ganks require catching his opponents offguard and he relies on his box to cut off their escape. If they were notified, all of a sudden they would be too far away for his box

but to answer your question:

Eve and Rengar have the "!" while Shaco has his puff of smoke when he enters stealth that appears even in the fog of war. To say that he has no "prewarning" because when that puff of smoke appears right outside your lane you should know that shaco is going to be right next to you soon

L Psy Kongroo9/28/2016, 7:10:35 PM3 votes

He doesn't have one because using his Q creates an orange puff of smoke that is visible in the fog of war. You just have to be more aware of your surroundings and play safer than normal in the early game.

Astôlfo9/28/2016, 7:18:56 PM3 votes

Because Rengar's stealth is on his ultimate, lasts fucking forever, and has no puff of smoke? Because Evelynn has fucking permastealth which only goes away on attacking or using her W (speed buff)?

While Shaco's Q is a linear blink that has a blaringly obvious orange cloud of smoke that appears even in the Fog of War? And if he screws up, he's done for because he has no other escape outside of his ultimate which won't help him if he went in deep in the first place for a gank or such?

"but for players around my skill level in gold shaco is a real problem and one of the most toxic champions to play against." Okay... so? Low ELO is irrelevant to balance. Get pink wards and place deeper yellow wards where he'd be seen before he Qs, or leave wards in the river where he'd try to take the crab, don't push past half-way down late with less than half-health especially in early (level 2 cheese), etc etc.

Ralanr9/28/2016, 7:04:24 PM2 votes

It's an interesting contrast because Eve has perma stealth and Rengar has ultimate stealth while Shaco has it on a basic ability.

I think the main reason why we don't get a warning is because Shaco is so light his footsteps don't make noise.

Dude walks like a balloon.

Meep Man9/28/2016, 7:13:07 PM2 votes

Because Rengar has the potential to instantly kill you from the range of his leap and Evelynn's is permanent stealth. Shaco can burst, but he gives you a chance to react. Also, you can see through the fog of war when Shaco uses his Q by a puff of smoke, although the color changes with skins which is why, if I recall, Masked Shaco's is harder to see.

thicc as fuk9/28/2016, 7:14:47 PM2 votes

Shaco's kit is more unforgiving. It's essentially Talon's situation. The reason neither of them have more warning beyond a visual cue is because once they are in they have to fully commit with no mobility to escape the fight. Now you might argue that Rango also has to commit but then you also have to add in his instant cc along with resetting skills. Comparing kits in the first place is a very hard thing to do because champions aren't meant to perform the same way.

To sum it up. There is forewarning before Shaco ganks (or Talon ults) in the form of a visual cue. For Shaco it's a puff of orange smoke or a blink of grey light depending on the skin you use. For Talon it's his coat of floating blades frozen in mid air to give away that he is currently in stealth and that you should probably group, position defensively, or drop a pink/activate a scanner.

Hochelaga9/28/2016, 7:33:51 PM1 votes

No one is talking about Twitch here?

That's just how they work.

DrugsForRobots9/29/2016, 3:31:09 AM1 votes

+1 because this is a relevant question.

He has the puff of smoke when he disappears, and he gives off a faint laugh and I'm almost positive enemies can't hear the laugh unless its ultra quiet and / or he's right up on them. The puff of smoke is awesome, but the particle FX could stand to be larger / prettier / more vibrant. Imagine if enemies within 2K unit radius (Vayne's passive) could hear his laugh though. It would give his invis more counterplay, let skilled (acute and perceptive) players prepare to attempt to outplay, and not require the enemy to pay a ward tax (wards should be insurance, not taxes).

The ! icon is clear, but it's also pretty blunt, no? I think it would be cute if Quinn's Heightened Senses gave an ! icon if any invis enemy was near, but I don't want to see it everywhere, especially not on Shaco. I'd much prefer individual quirks and clues for each instance of invisibility.

So the question I would ask is:

"If Shaco's tell-tale signs were more overt, could he stand to get some QoL love?"

Shaco