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decided to look into Hashinshin's Ryze outcry, most of it is exaggerated

NodirjonSattarov··4 votes·3,022 views

to preface this, the gap between master ryze win rate and diamond ryze win rate is 6% difference. master ryze is hovering at a 52% win rate over the past 7 days whereas diamond ryze is at a 46% win rate.

hashinshin is currently diamond 1 at 50% win rate. after analyzing the last 22 days worth of ranked games I've found the following information:

  • 12 games out of 156 were against ryze (not role specific, just in general)
  • 5/12 games he lost which reflects ryze's win rate in diamond but isn't large enough sample size to conclude this
  • hashinshin claims that ryze just has to build seraphs + frozen heart to attain some huge amount of AP. In reality Seraphs + Frozen Heart nets Ryze (level 16) 138 ability power and 3126 mana. Mana is a huge benefit to Ryze's Q, W , E and shield passive but hashinshin exaggerates its power. additionally, there was only one ryze game where the individual itemized this way and won, the win may have been affected by other reasons though.
  • hashinshin also doesn't know the difference between mages. playing bruisers so much has made his brain numb to the fact that other classes have subclasses that divide champions into niches. ryze is a mage, yes but he is more specifically a battle mage. vladamir is another example of a battle mage.
  • ryze loses to the champions that hashinshin primarily plays (aatrox, kled, olaf)

https://gyazo.com/3d4c77170c86f4de487ccd57ffbd703b

https://gyazo.com/08129127dd6bd90d5fa9d6d513a03b38

https://gyazo.com/be7e4636122518b5d21016bfdbc84745

https://gyazo.com/d54c3b8ca456a5cbf50e1ddc7011401f

https://gyazo.com/cfcbc0842468bfc6d93050c3ce564d8f

essentially, hashinshin is over exaggerating to compensate that he actually doesn't know how to play ryze or how to play against ryze despite winning more games versus ryze. I honestly don't know what this guy's problem is, I used to listen to him and agree with him but any time someone goes top lane that he doesn't like he becomes whiny. just shut up and play the game. I'm tired of certain champions too but I still log on and try to win

24 Comments

haaaaaaalp5 votes

That isn't how you use hashinshin. If you look into all of his complaints, you will probably go insane. The way to use hashinshin is to see which one of his complaints actually gain traction and then see what needs to be changed. That is because if people are willing to admit that they agree with hashinshin on something, you know riot fucked up hard.

NodirjonSattarov1 votes

lets let faker complain about everything and whatever the community agrees with we should change right? are you insane?

haaaaaaalp2 votes

{quoted}

lets let faker complain about everything and whatever the community agrees with we should change right? are you insane?

When the community is actually willing to say they agree with hashinshin, it is usually because something needs to be changed. No one would admit to agreeing with him unless they have no other choice.

Voluug131 votes

You know that for popular streamers its super mega izi to generate Fake Outcry right?

Yeah lets not listen to extremely biased and willfully misinformative streamers on gameplay decisions please.

Sanghelios5 votes

A Gold 4 Ryze player named Ryzê questioning the judgment of a high elo toplaner that plays League of Legends for a living.

Yes, there is no reason pro players are playing Ryze and not bruisers. Absolutely no reason. /s

Ryze is a failed and frustrating champion that is better off deleted from the game. Hashinshin is right, and also representing the opinions of all real toplaners.

NodirjonSattarov1 votes

I may not be a "professional gamer" like Hashinshin but I do have immense knowledge about Ryze because I've been playing that one champion for years. I know the things he's complaining about and they're not even the things that make him dominant in professional play. The things that he's complaining about are mere nuisances. It certainly isn't my fault he can't play against the champion.

If he really wants to bring to light the issues with Ryze, why doesn't he actually play him to elucidate the problems more effectively?

Craft Zeppelin1 votes

{quoted}

A Gold 4 Ryze player named Ryzê questioning the judgment of a high elo toplaner that plays League of Legends for a living.

Yes, there is no reason pro players are playing Ryze and not bruisers. Absolutely no reason. /s

Ryze is a failed and frustrating champion that is better off deleted from the game. Hashinshin is right, and also representing the opinions of all real toplaners.

TOTALLY NOT BIASED.

Sanghelios2 votes

{quoted}

I may not be a "professional gamer" like Hashinshin but I do have immense knowledge about Ryze because I've been playing that one champion for years. I know the things he's complaining about and they're not even the things that make him dominant in professional play. The things that he's complaining about are mere nuisances. It certainly isn't my fault he can't play against the champion.

If he really wants to bring to light the issues with Ryze, why doesn't he actually play him to elucidate the problems more effectively?

[{quoted}](name=Craft Zeppelin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=htO7Xqxv,comment-id=00050001,timestamp=2019-05-24T18:31:49.761+0000)

TOTALLY NOT BIASED.

This entire thread is biased against Hashinshin, claiming that he for some reason isn't aware of basic concepts. Also the screenshots of Ryze's matchup-winrates make no sense. Of course his matchup winrate is lower than that of Aatrox, because Ryze's winrate is overall lower. Same reason that low-winrate champions appear on "champions this champion counters"-lists. Not because they're actually being countered by a champion, but because their winrates are so low, the system just assumes that they're being countered. It doesn't differentiate, it only considers winrate.

You also have to consider that Ryze is a champion that is utilized differently in high elo games. Mages in the toplane lead to stale laning phases where the mages typically win lane for free because they're ranged, and then proceed to outscale whatever bruiser they're "playing" against.

Ryze may not be as broken as Hashinshin claims, but he is right in voicing the frustration that comes from playing against Ryze in the toplane. (Or Vlad, Kennen, etc...)

Dynikus3 votes

Hashinshin making exaggerated, often completely bullshit, points? What else, water is wet?

Dorans Pants1 votes

But is it wet though? Or does it make other things wet?

Saezio2 votes

You wanna see how ignorant hashinshin is, look up the game he plays with Dom in his team. Hash picks fiora (after saying how busted she is) Gringe(or something like that) picks olaf into him, hashinshin feeds his ass off (starting before minions even reach the lane), blames jungler. dom watches the replay back, and it's quite revealing. xD

it's this one

NodirjonSattarov1 votes

lol i remember this clip when it first came out. i actually thought hashinshin was good too

XJ999999999999991 votes

its just rage

NodirjonSattarov2 votes

yeah i know it is but its not good when its from someone with a lot of potential influence

Jamaree1 votes

Hashinshin whines about things that he doesn't play but loses to, unheard of.

NodirjonSattarov1 votes

but thats the thing, he is winning more games when he plays against ryze

Jamaree1 votes

{quoted}

but thats the thing, he is winning more games when he plays against ryze

Doesn't matter, this is hashinshin, if it beats him and it isn't a champion he plays, he is gonna bitch.

DalekZec1 votes

Well what did you expect? It's Hashinshin not Hafactfact...

Wait...does that even work?!?

wolvius1 votes

Some of your points I agree with but you really underestimate how usefull that frozen hearth is on ryze. 100 armor, mana , 20% CDR( really usefull for ability spam) and the cripple passive which is really useful against most bruisers due to their reliance on autos. It is literally 115% efficient without the bonus stats ryze gets from it and the passive aura.

You say Kled counters ryze I don't see how that possible unless you go hash viktor top mode, especially with reworked conqueror which is weak for champs which ain't hecarim, irelia etc. That frozen hearth passive literally invalidates kled as well as weaken their ADC (700 range aura btw). With phase-rush can disengage easily as he doesn't need damage keystone, him and snakelady are the reason items like item 3001 are nerfed for mages or other AP bruisers/melees.

Hash may be a whiney cry-baby but he aint without valid points, fiora doesn't win games because of her weak towertaking and more 1v1 bollocks don't help. Hes the tank anti-christ but says sion is overnerfed, that aatrox shouldn't have amp on external heals.

Honestly there may be different classes of mage but they all build the same shit with little difference, classing something an AP bruiser don't mean nothing if the items dont exist and they basically build assassin (or generic mage) like Diana or given so much free stats that they outscale bruisers while also having a safe lane.

NodirjonSattarov1 votes

I acknowledged the power of Frozen Heart in my post. Since you brought up cost efficiency, should the item be nerfed by increasing cost to build? Even if you did that Hashinshin would still complain about it. Black Cleaver costs 300g more and is 100% efficient without it's TWO passives. The item has been repeatedly nerfed/changed and is still relevant and problematic on certain champions (ie; Lucian in any scenario he gets buffed/changed). I think arguments should exclude items. We need to look at the champion at a fundamental level.

Anime Fizz1 votes

Hash says mages are broken and its complete truth.

Mages needs hard nerfs.

nm10101 votes

I don't know what Hashinshin said, nor do I care. I will say that you made several miscalculations with Ryze's numbers and others should take that into consideration before trusting your analysis. You either don't understand the champion enough to make a valid observation, or you are intentionally skewing the numbers. Both of those possibilities really limit your credibility.

NodirjonSattarov1 votes

you have yet to explain which calculation was incorrect

nm10101 votes

Pretty much all of them, take even the most basic example

  • hashinshin claims that ryze just has to build seraphs + frozen heart to attain some huge amount of AP. In reality Seraphs + Frozen Heart nets Ryze (level 16) 138 ability power and 3126 mana. Mana is a huge benefit to Ryze's Q, W , E and shield passive but hashinshin exaggerates its power. additionally, there was only one ryze game where the individual itemized this way and won, the win may have been affected by other reasons though.

Not even double checking your numbers,

3126 * .03 = 93.78 93.78 + 50 = 143.78 143.78 =/= 138

If I start adding standard things like base ap, manaflow band, and biscuits that it seems like you skipped, then it is a much higher discrepancy. I am not even saying it is a great build, but the fact you felt the need to fudge the numbers on something this basic makes your credibility take a nose dive.

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