Why do people complain about Rengar bursting them?

Shroom Junkie·Dec 27, 2015·6 votes·1,156 views

I mean, he's literally known as an assassin. They're supposed to burst squishies. I get his is extremely fast and combined with stealth and lots of MS can be done in a heartbeat, but shouldn't all assassins be like that? I mean, people complain about Kha'zix for not bursting fast enough, and used to complain about Talon too, now Talon finally does and... what do you know, he's getting hate.

Assassins burst squishes. If they don't, they're useless. You might as well just have a second ADC. Stop complaining.

30 Comments

Sightless66Dec 27, 20157 votes

Bursting so quickly and so unpredictably that responses are almost impossible are problems. There are plenty of assassins that have slower burst patterns that you can respond to and are way easier to see approaching, and they manage to be perfectly balanced because they bring mobility and slipperiness. That is so much healthier than Rengar that it isn'the even funny.

I would rather play against Fizz, Zed, or even a fed Talon than Rengar. While any assassin can feel like bullshit, Rengar epitomizes the very worst qualities of the class.

Maximum MordeDec 27, 20155 votes

Because not being able to play the game makes me not actually want to play the game. What is the point? If I can't play the game, then it is bad design and I might as well go play something else.

Most other assassins you can at least try to avoid, but Rengar jumps on you from beyond the sight range of a pink ward, so... yeah. Talon is pretty bullshit that way too.

Shroom JunkieDec 27, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maximum Morde,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=htEgXohj,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-12-27T02:08:55.601+0000)

Because not being able to play the game makes me not actually want to play the game. What is the point? If I can't play the game, then it is bad design and I might as well go play something else.

Most other assassins you can at least try to avoid, but Rengar jumps on you from beyond the sight range of a pink ward, so... yeah. Talon is pretty bullshit that way too.

I have to admit assassin is a pretty bullshit kind of position, but if it weren't then ADC and mages would be bullshit positions. The only reason Rengar is hated more than other assassins is because he actually assassinates quickly like he's supposed to. You burst the carry, and then you die. If you get away then your team must suck, and having nobody with CC around your carry to at least avenge them is just your fault. If both teams have an assassin, then both teams essentially have no carry unless they peel them off... and if they have the time to peel them off, then they aren't playing against true assassins, plain and simple. Its why Zed is hated so much, because he goes in, bursts, and then walks out and doesn't die in the process.

Maximum MordeDec 27, 20155 votes

Rengar is hated more than other assassins only sort of because he assassinates quickly, its more that there is nothing you can do about it. With say, Leblanc or Fizz you can at least see them coming. Yes they are hated heavily too, but the point still stands.

Zed is hated not because of his assassinations, but because he is so super safe that even a retarded monkey can play him and not feed. Seriously. I had my 8 year old niece play zed and told her that anytime someone came to get her to just press her shadow button and go away from them. She ended the match with a couple kills, a bunch of assists and only 2 deaths.

DreadlocksDec 27, 20153 votes

It's generally the people who lack the concept positioning. Rengar punishes positional mistakes probably better than anyone.

Neo CyrusDec 27, 20157 votes

Okay, totally not biased Gold Rengar main.

To answer your question OP, it's because he's bullshit that lacks any true counterplay and always has been. Name one champion that can 100-0 an enemy carry while not fed FROM INVISIBILITY that's not bullshit? That's right, anything that can do that is BS and shouldn't exist.

The responses as how to "counter" him are absolute nonsense "position better", "buy pink wards", like that'll stop him from exploding you and running away faster than most people can respond. Might as well write "just win the game".

Rengar will get nerfed, especially considering an AD DFG is coming (yeah they're smoking a lot of crack), it's just a matter of when.

Troy242621Dec 27, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Neo Cyrus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=htEgXohj,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-12-27T02:12:51.270+0000)

Okay, totally not biased Gold Rengar main.

To answer your question OP, it's because he's bullshit that lacks any true counterplay and always has been. Name one champion that can 100-0 an enemy carry while not fed FROM INVISIBILITY that's not bullshit? That's right, anything that can do that is BS and shouldn't exist.

The responses as how to "counter" him are absolute nonsense "position better", "buy pink wards", like that'll stop him from exploding you and running away faster than most people can respond. Might as well write "just win the game".

Rengar will get nerfed, especially considering an AD DFG is coming (yeah they're smoking a lot of crack), it's just a matter of when.

I agree with you. But. Shaco Evelynn .

Shroom JunkieDec 27, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Neo Cyrus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=htEgXohj,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-12-27T02:12:51.270+0000)

Okay, totally not biased Gold Rengar main.

To answer your question OP, it's because he's bullshit that lacks any true counterplay and always has been. Name one champion that can 100-0 an enemy carry while not fed FROM INVISIBILITY that's not bullshit? That's right, anything that can do that is BS and shouldn't exist.

The responses as how to "counter" him are absolute nonsense "position better", "buy pink wards", like that'll stop him from exploding you and running away faster than most people can respond. Might as well write "just win the game".

Rengar will get nerfed, especially considering an AD DFG is coming (yeah they're smoking a lot of crack), it's just a matter of when.

Well, he's kind of right about positioning better. I got to admit pink wards don't work if they're good Rengars, because they just speed in and jump on your ADC, but the positioning part is right. If your ADC is behind it all and blocked off, they can drop pink wards so you can see him before he jumps. Then again, there are usually multiple ways so we'll leave that part out. But if you have people protecting your ADC, Rengar will probably destroy them... but then die himself.

If all assassins were actually assassins like Rengar, then the odds would be balanced. They could go in, wreck face, and die. I mean, that's what they're supposed to do right? Take out one target and either live and be done, or die and be done. Either way they've taken out their carry and made it worth. If they get peeled off before they can burst a squishy af target, then they aren't an assassin, plain and simple. Almost no assassins are really assassins, unfortunately. We have Rengar, kind of Talon(when he gets at least moderately fed), Fizz kind of because he's untargettable during his troll poll so it makes up for the time because he'll still at least get the kill. But other assassins like Zed, Ekko, Kha'zix, etc., aren't really assassins. They take too long and can easily be interrupted from their assassination and made useless, which I find stupid. Others like Leblanc, and including Zed and Ekko if they're fed and can burst very fast, can easily get out of their assassination and not die, as well as have low cooldowns and can easily get back in safely. Rengar has low cooldowns, but can't get in safely, Kha'zix can with his E, but doesn't burst fast enough and requires isolation so if you're not stupid you'll have a bodyguard with your carry.

TL;DR: Assassins should be like Rengar, eliminating their target and then dying or at least not being able to get back in the fight without risk. Hence "assassin."

DreadlocksDec 27, 20151 votes

You are smashing me for playing rengar a high burst assassin, but you play annie and diana... are u fucking kidding me LOL.

HahahahyenaDec 27, 20153 votes

hes an assassin but all of them have some sort of counter play rengar has no counter play only counter measures

and if you say that "just place pink wards" yeah that will stop you from getting 100-0 in less than .1 second

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW_st2H2Y2Y

Death by GlamourDec 27, 20151 votes

Rengar and talon both have little counterplay to there kills in a combo

ChangstyDec 27, 20151 votes

If you know the direction Rengar is coming from, a pink and some sort of displacement skill will really mess up his day. Heck I've seen a fed Draven solo kill a similarly fed Rengar without pinks.

CaythelesDec 27, 20152 votes

Rengar is your 2nd most played champion. i wonder why!!!! if they were to balance him you wouldnt play him as much i bet

Shroom JunkieDec 27, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tetris C,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=htEgXohj,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-12-27T02:15:04.364+0000)

Rengar is your 2nd most played champion. i wonder why!!!! if they were to balance him you wouldnt play him as much i bet

Where'd you get 2nd most played champion? He is definitely not my 2nd most. He's my 3rd highest mastery, sure, but I have 11 champs at rank 5 not to mention the other like 7 at rank 4 I'm gradually taking up to 5. I play a lot and I play a large variety, hence why I have so many rank 5's.

CaythelesDec 27, 20151 votes

His mastery is high... which means you have played him a nice amount.

Shroom JunkieDec 27, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tetris C,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=htEgXohj,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2015-12-27T02:40:39.636+0000)

His mastery is high... which means you have played him a nice amount.

Again, I have 11 rank 5's all with very high mastery and counting, not to mention others I leveled and still like but don't play as much that were before masteries. I've played many champs a nice amount.

HahahahyenaDec 27, 20151 votes

of course a champ main trying to defend their champ so riot wont nerf him

BremerdanGorstDec 27, 20151 votes

I think the main issue is that in solo Q, people don't play safe against people you know will have lots of presence--Shen, Pantheon, Twisted Fate. And Rengar's ult generally lets him cover a lot of ground and

Melee FormDec 27, 20151 votes

Rengar doesn't have a good way to get out after he assassinates, so he's given a lot of tools to ensure he gets onto the enemy and is able to kill them. It's obviously not fun to play against.

Shroom JunkieDec 27, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Melee Form,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=htEgXohj,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2015-12-27T06:24:14.088+0000)

Rengar doesn't have a good way to get out after he assassinates, so he's given a lot of tools to ensure he gets onto the enemy and is able to kill them. It's obviously not fun to play against.

Exactly. Its not fun to play against, but after he assassinates, he's done his job and now he can't do it again unless he really has an opening like all the tanks are dead or falling back and he has a bush to jump on another squishy. Even then its risky. It might not be fun, but if assassins didn't exist, ADC's and mages wouldn't be very fun to play against because they'd be long-ranged constant burst champs that you couldn't really play against if their team's tanks bodyguarded them.

Either way, Rengar is a perfect assassin and other assassins should be like him in one way or another. He goes in, gets the kill, and either dies or gets out and unless under near-perfect circumstances, can't get back in. Other assassins like Zed and LeBlanc can get in, get the kill, and get out safely then get back in seconds later. Kha'zix doesn't get the kill as fast as other assassins and is easily killed, so no matter how low cooldowns he may have and he can E reset, if the enemy isn't stupid, he'll probably die. Not to mention carries are nearly never isolated. And there are plenty of other examples that have problems from safety, to getting back in the fight and not being true assassins, to not being near safe enough to at least get the kill before they die, or in general taking too long to the point they can be CC'd, bursted back, or even get outlifestealed by ADC's.

Asayake 5150glowDec 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Exactly. Its not fun to play against, but after he assassinates, he's done his job and now he can't do it again unless he really has an opening like all the tanks are dead or falling back and he has a bush to jump on another squishy. Even then its risky. It might not be fun, but if assassins didn't exist, ADC's and mages wouldn't be very fun to play against because they'd be long-ranged constant burst champs that you couldn't really play against if their team's tanks bodyguarded them.

Either way, Rengar is a perfect assassin and other assassins should be like him in one way or another. He goes in, gets the kill, and either dies or gets out and unless under near-perfect circumstances, can't get back in. Other assassins like Zed and LeBlanc can get in, get the kill, and get out safely then get back in seconds later. Kha'zix doesn't get the kill as fast as other assassins and is easily killed, so no matter how low cooldowns he may have and he can E reset, if the enemy isn't stupid, he'll probably die. Not to mention carries are nearly never isolated. And there are plenty of other examples that have problems from safety, to getting back in the fight and not being true assassins, to not being near safe enough to at least get the kill before they die, or in general taking too long to the point they can be CC'd, bursted back, or even get outlifestealed by ADC's.

Just let Kha W in mid air (and Q in mid air) for the heal. At least give him a chance to not die while he's jumping on the mage.

Shroom JunkieDec 27, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=da plazma pika,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=htEgXohj,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2015-12-27T20:43:02.596+0000)

Just let Kha W in mid air (and Q in mid air) for the heal. At least give him a chance to not die while he's jumping on the mage.

Honestly, even if he could he'd have to Q twice. As Kha you basically get fed early and then wreck face or you don't and build fighter because assassin is gonna be shit for you.

Asayake 5150glowDec 27, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Honestly, even if he could he'd have to Q twice. As Kha you basically get fed early and then wreck face or you don't and build fighter because assassin is gonna be shit for you.

Rengar 'having to Q twice' isn't a 'has to Q twice'. It's 'Q's twice and does tons of dmg'. Rango's even got a huge heal scaling with his missing life, while Kha's scales with AP. Rengar's double Q does more dmg than Kha's Isolated Q, and it gives Rango a buff (though Kha's Q has a super low cd which makes up for it). Kha has better kit synergy with his ult working with both his passive and Q, since you won't want to be auto attacking without resets (or animation cancels) (after combo), so you can go invisible and Q once you come out with an auto-Q reset.

Shroom JunkieDec 27, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=da plazma pika,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=htEgXohj,comment-id=00060000000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-27T21:50:31.663+0000)

Rengar 'having to Q twice' isn't a 'has to Q twice'. It's 'Q's twice and does tons of dmg'. Rango's even got a huge heal scaling with his missing life, while Kha's scales with AP. Rengar's double Q does more dmg than Kha's Isolated Q, and it gives Rango a buff (though Kha's Q has a super low cd which makes up for it). Kha has better kit synergy with his ult working with both his passive and Q, since you won't want to be auto attacking without resets (or animation cancels) (after combo), so you can go invisible and Q once you come out with an auto-Q reset.

Yes, but Kha has been shit for awhile. Hence him having to snowball hard to be useful. But, being the assassin he is, if he does snowball well... he does a pretty good job of assassinating. It was the same with Talon before he got buffed indirectly.

Rengar however is in a good spot so he can actually assassinate without being that fed, as he should, and as Kha should be able to. Same with Fizz, Ekko, LeBlanc, etc., however LeBlanc can get back in which I find pretty disgusting and un-assassin-like.

Asayake 5150glowDec 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Yes, but Kha has been shit for awhile. Hence him having to snowball hard to be useful. But, being the assassin he is, if he does snowball well... he does a pretty good job of assassinating. It was the same with Talon before he got buffed indirectly.

Rengar however is in a good spot so he can actually assassinate without being that fed, as he should, and as Kha should be able to. Same with Fizz, Ekko, LeBlanc, etc., however LeBlanc can get back in which I find pretty disgusting and un-assassin-like.

Isn't Ekko not supposed to be able to assassinate without being fed? Isn't that his whole point? Like, why else would he have massive CC?

Shroom JunkieDec 28, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=da plazma pika,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=htEgXohj,comment-id=0006000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-28T02:25:26.137+0000)

Isn't Ekko not supposed to be able to assassinate without being fed? Isn't that his whole point? Like, why else would he have massive CC?

No, when he was released he had all that CC and could assassinate easily. When he was behind he was very slow about it, but his ult and W shield made him really safe so it never really mattered and he could still kill you even if he didn't burst when behind. It was only till they nerfed him that he now needs to be a bit fed before he can really assassinate.

Asayake 5150glowDec 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

No, when he was released he had all that CC and could assassinate easily. When he was behind he was very slow about it, but his ult and W shield made him really safe so it never really mattered and he could still kill you even if he didn't burst when behind. It was only till they nerfed him that he now needs to be a bit fed before he can really assassinate.

I clearly remember them saying that even if Ekko is behind, he still provides CC. They even compared him to Zed, and they said that if Zed was behind, he 'couldn't kill Anivia', while Ekko 'can't kill Anivia, but he can CC her'.

Shroom JunkieDec 28, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=da plazma pika,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=htEgXohj,comment-id=000600000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-28T20:02:46.223+0000)

I clearly remember them saying that even if Ekko is behind, he still provides CC. They even compared him to Zed, and they said that if Zed was behind, he 'couldn't kill Anivia', while Ekko 'can't kill Anivia, but he can CC her'.

And? If Ekko is behind, he still provides CC. Doesn't mean he lacks damage and it doesn't mean if he's average he doesn't burst.

Asayake 5150glowDec 28, 20151 votes