Hybrid Shaco and the Minor Update

ChickenWrap··8 votes·1,493 views

I have been an avid Shaco main for six years. While I was not given access to the PBE, I've been following along closely to the changes to the only character that is keeping me playing League of Legends. I was in the top 10 best Shaco players in all of NA at one time according to LoLSkill until I had a run of bad games and fell to Diamond 5. I've made multiple Shaco video guides and, while I am not as well-known as Shaclone or Pink Ward, they have been very well-received with some of them reaching 43.6k views with 505 likes and 23 dislikes, so I feel like I'm doing something right here. That said, I have a discussion topic for you, Gameplay.

How do you feel about Shaco's AP ratio on his Q? Generally speaking, Shaco deals around the same amount of physical and magical damage over the course of a fight. I'm going to be heavily looking in to a hybrid Shaco build using Echoes and Gunblade along with Shiv and Duskblade (or Infinity Edge, depending on which works out better) and perhaps a Lich Bane to accrue the most powerful hybrid burst-damage he can do. With three items that can be used immediately to deal damage paired with the current mastery changes adding bonus % damage from all these other factors (first hit, being in a bush, 8.5 flat lethality, etc.) I feel that hybrid may be a good way to go in terms of granting Shaco the burst damage necessary to kill targets without having them escape. While yes, he does have two AD ratios, he has four AP ratios. The combination of strong auto-attacks with hefty AP-oriented burst (and sustained damage in the case of JiTB) feels incredibly strong on paper. I've been playing around with it a little bit here and there since they released information about the changes and I feel confident that it will also translate well in-game. Whether or not it is stronger than pure AD or pure AP is yet to be seen, but I definitely think it'll give either of those two builds a run for their money.

The biggest problem to face would be the lack of penetration the build gathers, but it shouldn't be too much of a worry. Since you're aiming for burst damage, taking Sorc shoes is a really solid choice (Gunblade, Echoes, Lich Bane, Statikk, and Two-Shiv all deal magical damage). While you still won't have a ton of pen, even with taking hybrid pen runes, you're also a hybrid-damage character. If they build plenty of armour, you're still chunking them through magical damage and if they build plenty of MR, you're still chunking them through physical damage. If this proves to be a problem, I'll look to sub out Lich Bane for Abyssal Scepter.

Thoughts?

34 Comments

Big Lincoln1 votes

Why shiv and not IE? does the burst proc do more than what IE crit passive would give you? is it more wortwgile over the bonus damage from Q and E, too?

ChickenWrap2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hn2Em5zW,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-11-02T18:51:14.094+0000)

Why shiv and not IE? does the burst proc do more than what IE crit passive would give you? is it more wortwgile over the bonus damage from Q and E, too?

Like I said, I have no current access to the PBE so I can't currently test things out on that environment, however Statikk Shiv can criticall strike. Hitting a target from behind will proc a crit from Shaco and that will translate into a crit from the Shiv. It also gives Hybrid Shaco a reliable form of wave-clear that can be used to split push or defend the base if necessary. While IE is definitely better for raw stats, Shaco will be lacking any effective split-push or wave-clear if we don't take it. One thing I'm looking at, however, is replacing Duskblade with Infinity Edge. Since we won't be building a large sum of Lethality, IE might potentially be the better all-around option and will allow for stronger Shiv and Deceive procs, especially since Backstab applies crits from Deceive, which is effectively giving you a physical+Magical damage burst ability that scales with AP.

policebrutalityy1 votes

PBE helps people and not everyone gets it.. huh elections and riot. nothings rigged.

ChickenWrap1 votes

{quoted}

PBE helps people and not everyone gets it.. huh elections and riot. nothings rigged.

Riot also said they usually bring in players who have lots of experience on the characters they're changing to help test those changes. I was just surprised that after waiting 3 years for PBE access after it stopped being public, I still haven't received it. I'm not upset or anything, I just thought it was weird because they were working on Shaco. and I have a ridiculous resumé with him.

ff4sk1 votes

Rather than relying on burst and assassinations I'm gonna have to shift my playstyle and play shaco as a tank.

Since my damage is gonna be pathetically weaker than what I had I might as well ignore damage, building nothing but tank golem and slap a titanic hydra/sunfire on myself to deal a shitload of damage in teamfights before dying or Q'ing out of the fight once my clone pops.

ChickenWrap1 votes

{quoted}

Rather than relying on burst and assassinations I'm gonna have to shift my playstyle and play shaco as a tank.

Since my damage is gonna be pathetically weaker than what I had I might as well ignore damage, building nothing but tank golem and slap a titanic hydra/sunfire on myself to deal a shitload of damage in teamfights before dying or Q'ing out of the fight once my clone pops.

While possible, I feel like this is a poor way to go about playing Shaco at this point. You're not really bringing anything to the team if you're going pure tank with a Titanic.

ff4sk1 votes

Eh, it'll soak up some damage, plus 2 sunfires in a teamfight on 2 decently tanky shacos is a lot better than 1 squishy shaco with pathetic damage that can barely burst anyone.

Tenth Leper1 votes

I do think hybrid sounds fun and situational useful, which is awesome. I would point out that swapping lich bane for abyssal scepter will no longer give you "pen" (abyssal is losing the -MR aura).

ChickenWrap3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tenth Leper,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hn2Em5zW,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-11-02T20:21:49.961+0000)

I do think hybrid sounds fun and situational useful, which is awesome. I would point out that swapping lich bane for abyssal scepter will no longer give you "pen" (abyssal is losing the -MR aura).

But it does increase magic damage taken by 10%, which is basically just pen. If it doesn't work, I'll definitely be looking toward Void Staff. That said, I want Abyssal to work because hybrid Shaco won't be taking any MR runes.

Saianna1 votes

Tbh I believe Hybrid Shaco will be only viable option untill Riot either nerfs it further or buffs him to the level where both pure AP or AD won't be troll picks. And I'm afraid they'd go with nerf road...

EDIT: Actually AP Shaco isn't all that bad.. He's weaker than before, no doubt, but still isn't in as deep shithole as AD Shaco is.

ChickenWrap1 votes

{quoted}

Tbh I believe Hybrid Shaco will be only viable option untill Riot either nerfs it further or buffs him to the level where both pure AP or AD won't be troll picks. And I'm afraid they'd go with nerf road...

EDIT: Actually AP Shaco isn't all that bad.. He's weaker than before, no doubt, but still isn't in as deep shithole as AD Shaco is.

"Shaco is fine right now on the PBE" RiTroll Games

Saianna1 votes

I remember how Stashu was "new cassio is so awesome!!! Just wait!!"... I'd strangle his lying neck into a goddamn knot on first chance.

Miraweave1 votes

I have a few thoughts. Mostly "DOWNVOTE CHICKENWRAP".

ChickenWrap2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Freelo Robot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hn2Em5zW,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-11-03T05:13:04.505+0000)

I have a few thoughts. Mostly "DOWNVOTE CHICKENWRAP".

Alternatively, we could have a legitimate discussion instead of you trying to meme me in a legitimate thread.

Miraweave1 votes

{quoted}

Alternatively, we could have a legitimate discussion instead of you trying to meme me in a legitimate thread.

Ya but that would involve not downvoting chickenwrap and we can't have that

ChickenWrap1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Freelo Robot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hn2Em5zW,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2016-11-03T05:39:15.178+0000)

Ya but that would involve not downvoting chickenwrap and we can't have that

k

PlanetWarwick1 votes

Mob boots are a core part of shaco I feel, his I can be wherever and run away

ChickenWrap1 votes

{quoted}

Mob boots are a core part of shaco I feel, his I can be wherever and run away

Mobis? No, they're definitely not. Not for a very long time. Swifties took their place after the Mobi nerf and Zerkers are in high demand right now. Sorc Shoes are a great buy and were always the core boot on AP Shaco.

PlanetWarwick1 votes

I play shaco a lot and his ability to move around and be top then bot is a core part of him. Besides his kiting is op, just w good and q towards the opposite direction of where they'd think you q, and just spam boxes behind u with extra movement/block skillshots. I ran from hecarim amumu and kass and then while my team chased them back to base I went bot, cleared a wave, ulted, and ended

ChickenWrap1 votes

{quoted}

I play shaco a lot and his ability to move around and be top then bot is a core part of him. Besides his kiting is op, just w good and q towards the opposite direction of where they'd think you q, and just spam boxes behind u with extra movement/block skillshots. I ran from hecarim amumu and kass and then while my team chased them back to base I went bot, cleared a wave, ulted, and ended

I also play a lot of Shaco. I'll give you a tip: Bloodrazor is amazing on him right now and Titanic Hydra is not only bugged to deal bonus damage, but is a far better buy for burst damage than Ravenous.

That said, his kiting involves pre-set-up and yes, QIng is a fun little game. That said, mobis are good for certain things, but they definitely fall short compared to other boot choices right now on Shaco.

Super Shaco1 votes

The issues for me is the changing q duration as you level it, and the new ap scalings. Shaco takes a LOT of practice to play effectively as you climb the ranked ladder, which explains why a champion as fun as him would have such a low pick rate. I think the different q durations as you level your q will be difficult for making good judgements when engaging. So for that reason i am not happy to see it change so drastically throughout the game, from 1.5 to 4.5 seconds. Also I hope AD and AP shaco are both still strong in their own ways, i do not want to be forced into playing AP shaco every game... thats all..

19119149DEL11 votes

Hextech looks probably really good in his stuff and cdr becomes way more efficient because of the Q and passive cdr changes. But how do normal crits and IE work with the new crit change?

ChickenWrap1 votes

{quoted}

Hextech looks probably really good in his stuff and cdr becomes way more efficient because of the Q and passive cdr changes. But how do normal crits and IE work with the new crit change?

crits work off backstab for a lesser crit and Deceive procs backstab crits and makes Deceive crit too. IE increases crit damage from -55 to -5%

Psi211 votes

The blinding problem is that Shaco of all the assassin rework is the weakest. Even Alkali is getting buffed to be better than him on PBE. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zq2epjwbcQ&feature=youtu.be&t=8m13s

Also there is a blinding problem right now on PBE Duskblade, Static Shiv, Youmuu's Ghostblade, Trinity Force, Infinity Edge

is one shotting. All assassins are building this way.

Riot Devs don't have a clue on balancing this game and Riot already admitted their research material was Pinkwards videos, when it came to reworking Shaco. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/ietEMFIk-what-shacos-ult-could-become?comment=0000000000020001

And Pinkward goes so far as to review Shaco's rework to express he is flattered and honored by it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Low1cxHW2RE&feature=youtu.be&t=5m50s

I don't know about you but the fact Riot has no clue how to rework Shaco is just saddening.

ChickenWrap1 votes

Oh dude don't troll me. Pink Ward is a joke among Shaco mains. No offense to the guy or anything but he's not a good Shaco player and he got popular off of boxbox playing like an idiot and hyping it up to the tenth degree.

I am so pissed right now. There were so many better and more qualified Shaco players to talk to about this.

Comrade Napoleon1 votes

Are there any more "Master" AP Shaco mains out there?

ChickenWrap1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Comrade Napoleon,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hn2Em5zW,comment-id=000900000000,timestamp=2016-11-05T08:46:54.559+0000)

Are there any more "Master" AP Shaco mains out there?

  1. Just because someone got carried to master does not make them good
  2. The guy stopped playing AP Shaco multiple times so that he could get carried instead of feeding
  3. The guy intentionally feeds on occasion when he's upset
  4. Does this really look like a solid Shaco score? https://gyazo.com/36a70f7b78509598838ebd8c34b2aa08.jpg

This is my bro ExtremePerson. AP Shaco jungle main. https://gyazo.com/4395ff871c7b49073a99f2528deba929.jpg

Just because Pink Ward is popular doesn't mean he's good. How do you think he went from Diamond 5 to Masters so fast?

Comrade Napoleon1 votes

What do you mean "carried"? i dont watch his steams just some youtube vids. Does he play with a duo?

The Deckowner1 votes

It just doesn't seem pike a good enough buff to his late game for the player to rry go through his shitty early game now.

ChickenWrap1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hn2Em5zW,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2016-11-05T17:31:27.514+0000)

It just doesn't seem pike a good enough buff to his late game for the player to rry go through his shitty early game now.

Yep. Trying to make the most of a bad situation. Hybrid gets going early and doesn't cost a huge ton of money.

The Deckowner1 votes

lets see how rito change the numbers, if the ratios are way too small it might just not be worthy going for hybird since it puts you in the middle of nowhere.

ChickenWrap1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hn2Em5zW,comment-id=000a00000000,timestamp=2016-11-05T17:48:28.997+0000)

lets see how rito change the numbers, if the ratios are way too small it might just not be worthy going for hybird since it puts you in the middle of nowhere.

Tbh I've been trying hybrid already on live and it works well. Shaco's damage is all hybrid anyway so it definitely doesn't strand you.

DemoGuide1 votes

Don't you feel like Shaco changes just delete some possible build paths for him? Or dumpster his laning phase and put him into jungle only? Not a shaco main, but sometime i like to fool around with ap or ad builds.

ChickenWrap2 votes

{quoted}

Don't you feel like Shaco changes just delete some possible build paths for him? Or dumpster his laning phase and put him into jungle only? Not a shaco main, but sometime i like to fool around with ap or ad builds.

Pretty much. I'm upset about it for sure.

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