Anyone else looking forward to the tank changes coming soon?

Ralanr·Apr 5, 2017·23 votes·1,005 views

I think Riot said they'd showcase some in 7.8, but they wouldn't go out until 7.9.

As a tank main, it's all I really care about right now.

33 Comments

EedatApr 5, 201717 votes

Its going to be the same as any other class update.

Some champions get destroyed. Some become absolutely broken OP. Some stay meh and piss off the mains because they were changed for no good reason.

Oh, and at least one is going to be forced into being a bot lane Support

RalanrApr 5, 20172 votes

No assassin or juggernaut is played as a bot support though.

DoodlzzzApr 6, 20172 votes

Oh they will find a way... Like they did with this guy -----> Mordekaiser

RalanrApr 6, 20172 votes

Not really played as support though.

ErockandrollApr 5, 20179 votes

{quoted}

Its going to be the same as any other class update.

Some champions get destroyed. Some become absolutely broken OP. Some stay meh and piss off the mains because they were changed for no good reason.

Oh, and at least one is going to be forced into being a bot lane Support

Considering that Riot pretty much stated that they weren't doing any minor reworks, and only the major three. I find that difficult to achieve, unless it's a result of the itemization.

Scary DoorApr 5, 20177 votes

I'm not because we know how Riot works. The changes will either make tanks...

Completely and devastatingly overpowered.
Create items that will be used and likely abused by Bruisers, mages or classes not intended to use them.
Have one champion that comes out as a success while the others become balancing nightmares and are either disasterously underpowered or so drastically overtuned that they become pick or ban----meaning the whole update is a huge failure.

Now, I know what you're thinking... "you're just being cynical, Riot wouldn't do that". There's an old saying about cynics. *The optimist will loan you $100, the pessimist won't loan you $100 and the cynic DID loan you $100".

We all know the track record...

ADC update? So terrible that they did a full revert to one of the champions entirely and had to change other items because they were way overtuned.

Mage update? Malz became too strong, then nerfed into oblivion and is soon to be in Olaf 2011-2015 territory, while champions that were perfectly balanced like Vel'Koz were tinkered with for no reason.

Juggernaut update? Skarner had a 65% win rate for a week, was hot fixed and has never been seen again. Garen got some gimmicky ult mechanic that didn't really address his issues. Morde ... don't even get me started about poor Morde. The master of metal was fine before the update---perhaps just needed some numbers tweaks, but was forced into a bot lane play style which never took off because, well, melee vs ranged bot lane... you know how that goes. And of course Darius, still the champion of melee top laners, maybe not quite as faceroll as before, but still pretty much no point in playing a melee into Darius.

Assassin update? Talon... enough said there. Kat was fine but is now a balancing nightmare, merely interrupting her ult isn't enough anymore, while Akali got taken down a peg or two more. At least the assassin update was BETTER than the aforementioned changes, but still really missed the mark.

So, TL/DR: My money is on... NO, the Tank update will be terrible.

KeevalroyApr 6, 20174 votes

I too am cynical, but considering how the last tank update went, eventually it created the healthiest and most diverse gameplay we'd seen in years, even if the first couple patches were a nightmare with Cinder / Gromp buff melting everyone. I know assassins will bitch and moan about tanks being strong because they can't throw their keyboards down a flight of stairs and win in that type of environment, but there's a reason mid(ish) season 5 was a popular period people want back - I'll defend tank metas because after the dust settles, the fires are put out, and the sky stops falling, they tend to make the game better.

Look, I started in season 2 and quit in season 6 due to asinine and frankly retarded changes to the game done purely for the sake of change or to make the LCS more exciting to watch, recently coming back as of 2 days ago. Still, I want to be excited because history has shown that tank metas create diverse picks, and on top of that, we're getting 10 bans as well. So any problem children created from the update can be dealt with from the four extra bans we're getting, forcing Riot to respond to those who float to 80-100% ban rates, and adjust them accordingly...whether or not they do that in a timely fashion if at all is still up in the air.

The common sense voice in my head is screaming "you're an idiot - you're thinking of the old Riot who compared to now, actually gave a shit about the health of the game! Go on, be excited all you want, you'll just be disappointed when they fuck everything up, refuse to accept they made a mistake, and undo the repairs they're doing after they ruined everything in season 6." Against my better judgement, I'm going to be apprehensively hopeful because from my perspective, it seems that maybe they've finally realized that huge sweeping changes to champions they hit on a dartboard to fill a quota doesn't work after all (...who'da thunk it?) so they're only doing 3 while changing very little about them - at least from what we've seen in leaks so far.

Sun Wu RyuumokuApr 6, 20171 votes

that tank metas create diverse picks

Whut ?

KeevalroyApr 6, 20171 votes

What are you confused about? When did you start playing, because I feel like you've never seen an actual tank meta.

KyunseiApr 6, 20174 votes

[{quoted}](name=Scary Door,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hn06Asbw,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-04-05T23:44:57.911+0000)

ADC update? So terrible that they did a full revert to one of the champions entirely and had to change other items because they were way overtuned.

So, TL/DR: My money is on... NO, the Tank update will be terrible.

What ? Today you have ADC with lethality, crit and on-hit build Even some doing primarily magic damage.

How is it a failure ?

You know, before all adc were building IE, PD, LW, BT and only doing physical damage. The only current downside that I see is the fact that current strong items rules over the 2 others (crit/lethality/on-hit)

Scary DoorApr 6, 20173 votes

{quoted}

What ? Today you have ADC with lethality, crit and on-hit build Even some doing primarily magic damage.

How is it a failure ?

You know, before all adc were building IE, PD, LW, BT and only doing physical damage. The only current downside that I see is the fact that current strong items rules over the 2 others (crit/lethality/on-hit)

As opposed to old ADCs which had Armor Pen (a less fancy word for lethality, which was actually stronger pre level 18 than now), crit and on-hit builds. Furthermore, lethality wasn't introduced with the adc update it came a year later, so my original point stands.. the ADC update was a failure... when one of your cornerstones of the update, Kog'Maw is COMPLETELY reverted (which never had been done in the game's history previous to that) then you can't claim it a success.

A year after the update, there are memes about "#ADC2017" because they are hilariously weak in comparison to their previous state (note I'm not saying that they're weak overall) or much weaker than at any point in the history of the game from when I started playing in Season 1. It is a far less desired role than it used to be and is only now slightly more appealing because Blade of the Ruined King was "buffed". I said it in quotes because BoRK was nerfed well over a year ago and is only now back to where it was prior.

ArakadiaApr 6, 20172 votes

Btw Morde absolutely needed a gameplay update, Number fixes would only hold him over.

Scary DoorApr 6, 20171 votes

Maybe. But the update he received failed in it's intent. No one can really dispute that point. If you intend a champion to have a specific role and hope to help with their overall impact and then that doesn't come to fruition, what else can you call it but a failure?

Ask Morde fans what they thought.

Sun Wu RyuumokuApr 6, 20171 votes

Assassin update? Talon... enough said there. Kat was fine but is now a balancing nightmare, merely interrupting her ult isn't enough anymore, while Akali got taken down a peg or two more. At least the assassin update was BETTER than the aforementioned changes, but still really missed the mark.

Talon is better now. Kat wasn't fine, she was stupider than now. Akali is okay... but she'll receive an VGU (same for Shaco). overall its successful (unless Leblanc & Rengar).

PennsApr 5, 20174 votes

Not really since I dont play any tanks but if they get less reliable damage.. I guess thats nice.

RalanrApr 5, 20173 votes

Less reliable damage and more unreliable damage. I love unreliable damage.

PennsApr 5, 20171 votes

Me too... unless its on my main assassin, cause then he just builds tanky item 3070

RalanrApr 5, 20173 votes

Oh, and hopefully an end to this tank assassin bullshit.

AcidTheWarlockApr 5, 20174 votes

And tanks and juggernauts can have nice things.

doodlebob666Apr 5, 20174 votes

am hoping that the sticky tree bombs that the leak said about maokai can stick to him, I want to be a christmas tree nuke

KeevalroyApr 6, 20171 votes

I just want to jungle with him again, but Riot apparently doesn't want him there. We'll see what the update does and if they changed their minds.

ProfDrDeathApr 6, 20174 votes

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/WgNuqAK8-midseason-durability-goals-and-direction

Got something salivating for you. :D

RalanrApr 6, 20171 votes

Ohhhh myyyy godddddddd!

Ariel the CruelApr 6, 20173 votes

As a support main, these changes will be very relevant to me.

sirwaterflesApr 5, 20172 votes

Finally going to have decent items without divers/assassins abuse them in the absolute dream !!!! Maybe they will even be playable in the jugnle again ;p

RhyvinApr 5, 20172 votes

Well if they do stuff like they did to amumu with the true damage. No not excited. But since they are vanguard and not meant to do damage like juggers then we'll see

AkeneroApr 5, 20172 votes

It's hopefully centered around itemization rather than changes. More interesting tank items would be great, like Martyrs Gambit.

Arsenic SulfurApr 6, 20171 votes

I believe that is on the list. Though more so to make sure things like Tankko never happen again.

6SfoolApr 6, 20172 votes

I'd like to see the itemization be less clunky, and I'm tired of tanks being just "tanky enough to slowly kill you solo." I'd rather see the distinction between tanks and juggernauts be broadened and tanks given a crapton of toughness at the cost of damage. Not everybody agrees with that though, apparently it's bad to have a tank survive a teamfight "because they might hold out a push 1v5."

RalanrApr 6, 20171 votes

I'd argue that in the grande scheme of things (taking towers or fighting other durable champions) they do sacrifice potential damage for their durability. Though this doesn't matter to squishies since they die easily to everyone.

6SfoolApr 6, 20171 votes

They do sacrifice damage for durability, but it is not meaningful enough. I still see tanks and squishies 1v1ing because they are both still just a combination of durability and damage. Tanks should be damn hard to kill, but their solo kill potential should be almost nonexistent. The whole point of a tank is to lock down enemies while their teammates do the damage, but often enough you see tanks not needing their allies. Often a rushed combo from Maokai, Zac, Sion, or Poppy is enough to kill a squishy, and that just doesn't make any sense.

RalanrApr 6, 20171 votes

{quoted}

They do sacrifice damage for durability, but it is not meaningful enough. I still see tanks and squishies 1v1ing because they are both still just a combination of durability and damage. Tanks should be damn hard to kill, but their solo kill potential should be almost nonexistent.

The problem with that is you'd end up forcing tanks out of top lane unless you made them incredibly uninteractive (like Old Shen Q under tower all day uninteractive) which is boring for both the tank player and their opponent (in theory. Some people like farm lanes).

I don't agree with tank damage being almost nonexistent, but I don't think it should be reliable either. Sion shows this best with every ability of his being dodgable (and some being easy to dodge, Q and ult specifically. Both of which have the highest bases in his kit). While tanks like Maokai have that dumb point and click root that makes his damage too reliable.

Damage dealing classes should have more reliability in their damage to define them as damage dealers, rather than just more damage than a non damage class. Obviously it would vary, but I think tanks should have the most unreliable damage in the game.

The whole point of a tank is to lock down enemies while their teammates do the damage, but often enough you see tanks not needing their allies. Often a rushed combo from Maokai, Zac, Sion, or Poppy is enough to kill a squishy, and that just doesn't make any sense.

With adding MR per level to squishies, we'll probably see this less. Imo Sion's damage output is fine because (as I said above) he's very easy to avoid with how telegraphed he is.

Poppy imo could use some changes to her Q. Rather than reducing the overall damage, they should take some damage from the first part of her Q and put it in the second part. That way she's more rewarded for landing the second shockwave rather than rewarded equally for both.