The absolute reason why Yasuo is so damn frustrating to fight.

adidas·Sep 9, 2016·4 votes·1,278 views

I dont know if its the same thing as being broken or having too much but here.

IMO the biggest problem with yasuo, is that there is more things he can do to you, rather than what you can do to him..

For example lets take an ordinary mid matchup?

Yasuo vs Diana

Diana Can...

Q poke and all in eventually ( may run out of mana )
Has better CC potential when jungler comes to gank

Yasuo Can...

Poke with nados permanently.
Passive absorbs dianas Q damage.
Can decide when to all in with an easy E-Q and force diana Q to either miss because how close he is OR passive will absorb that. So diana will be left with W and R which will not do enough damage at all.( Dianas melee so she will be in range inevitably )
Yasuo can situationaly run away when he needs to, Diana cant.
If getting ganked, Yasuo can windwall a hard CC , Diana is forced to sidestep.

43 Comments

Veigarisgod1Sep 9, 20164 votes

Wow it's almost like higher skillcap champions have more options when fighting people. I'm amazed.

specter424Sep 10, 20165 votes

Having targeted no cd free spells means high skillcap? wow who knew,

Veigarisgod1Sep 10, 20163 votes

It's almost as if skill floor and skill ceiling aren't the same thing.

adidasSep 10, 20163 votes

{quoted}

It's almost as if skill floor and skill ceiling aren't the same thing.

If a champ being harder to play ment having way more opportunitys to abuse, then annie should never leave lane positive.

Veigarisgod1Sep 11, 20162 votes

False equivalency. A yasuo has a multitude of options when fighting people. he could E to dodge the skillshot, R (if they are knocked up) to dodge it, or windwall. All have their own trade offs. That's part of a high skillcap champion. Annie can hope to sidestep it, and that's it.

inb4 you just call him overloaded.

GULAG 4 USep 11, 20161 votes

Q is targeted? Okay

Free no cd? Spam that dash and you've pushed the lane. enemy fires cc at you and you can't dodge it anymore. And jungler ganks you.

Good, @!#$ing, job.

AlutrositySep 10, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Wow it's almost like higher skillcap champions have more options when fighting people. I'm amazed.

Wow, you missed the point, big fucking shock.

He's saying that it is much more fair for both champions to have a roughly equal amount of options at their disposal as it creates a more level playing field. How hard is that to grasp?

TequilaZombieSep 11, 20162 votes

It's not possible to a simpler champion to have the same amount of options as a more complex champion. Take a Warwick or a Garen for example. They are as simple as it gets, therefore they don't have many options on how to proceed in their duels.

Riven and a Fiora in it, who are a bit more complex, and they have many more options at their disposal.

You can even go up a bit with Yasuo, Zed, and Ekko, who have complex kits that allow for a great variety of options.

Note that complexity is not the same as difficulty, although they are often correlated.

Veigarisgod1Sep 11, 20161 votes

He's saying that it is much more fair for both champions to have a roughly equal amount of options at their disposal as it creates a more level playing field. How hard is that to grasp?

That's utterly fucking ridiculous. You are literally saying in this statement that every champion should be at the same difficulty and have the same amount of ways to deal with enemies. Not only is that incredibly restricting on champion diversity but is frankly completely stupid. MasterYi does not have the same amount of options as Azir and never will without a massive, massive rework.

You are vouching for either every champion having only a tiny handful of ways to deal with a situation, or all the champions having a ton of ways to deal with a situation. Neither would ever work.

AlutrositySep 11, 20162 votes

{quoted}

That's utterly fucking ridiculous. You are literally saying in this statement that every champion should be at the same difficulty and have the same amount of ways to deal with enemies. Not only is that incredibly restricting on champion diversity but is frankly completely stupid.

And you don't know how to decipher context, so you might want to think twice before calling someone's words ridiculous, let alone stupid. When I say roughly the same amount of options I mean just that: options. This in no way indicates that every champion should have an amazing escape, a blink, a silence, a stun, a leap. I am saying that champions should have multiple options available in their kit, relative to their role and basic fundamental design as a champion that enables them to function with a fair degree of independence.

does not have the same amount of options as and never will without a massive, massive rework.

That's a gross misrepresentation of what I said.

You are vouching for either every champion having only a tiny handful of ways to deal with a situation, or all the champions having a ton of ways to deal with a situation. Neither would ever work.

The most well designed champions always have multiple options available to them: Thresh is a perfect example of this and he is one of the healthiest champions in the game. His lantern is so versatile due to its allied-mobility granting usage, hooking jungle creeps over walls as a means of escape, being able to flay his target in multiple directions including the walls of his ultimate, the ultimate of which can be used as a means of locking people in after a solid hook engage, cutting off an escape or chase path. Nautilus also has a flexible kit and is perfectly healthy due to his dredge line granting him mobility, a means of engage as well as ganking and can be synergized with his depth charge by casting depth charge first into dredge line, securing him an easy dredge line as his opponent is knocked up, or he can simply use his ultimate as a means of disruption if he wants to. His W can be used a means of simply tanking during a turret dive, or he can use it as a means of simply dueling his opponent, and his E provides self-peel as well as slow power for himself or his allies.

Flexible kits with multiple options, both are healthy, neither are broken as of right now. This is what I mean, now please stop being so short-sighted, and learn how to interpret context.

TyrekGoldenspearSep 10, 20164 votes

If getting ganked, Yasuo can windwall a hard CC

Tibbers says hi.

TequilaZombieSep 11, 20164 votes

Chogath So does my Q Galio And my Ult Amumu Mine as well Darius Does my pull count? Gnar Only if we consider my W and R! Urgot So easy!

TyrekGoldenspearSep 11, 20162 votes

And this is why Yasou needs buffs.

http://res.cloudinary.com/urbandictionary/image/upload/a_exif,c_fit,h_200,w_200/v1395991705/gjn81wvxqsq6yzcwubok.png

TequilaZombieSep 11, 20161 votes

Patch 6.19

Yasuo

Yasuo's win rate has been drastically reduced since we ~~did our jobs and fixed his bugs~~ nerfed him, so we're giving him some love back so he can sit at his healthy 69% win ratio. The changes to Windwall should make up for the power he lost now that he can't land his auto attack during his ult animation. It should also make him feel powerful for the duration that his ult is down. In fact, it should cover about 2,5 ults at max rank.

W - Windwall: ~~blocks projectiles~~ blocks anything inside it's radius. It now forms a bubble around Yasuo and his team and lasts for 10/20/30/40/50 seconds.

TyrekGoldenspearSep 11, 20161 votes

They better make this patchnote for next April 1st...

Handy Sandy Sep 9, 20162 votes

"Just go up and auto attack his shield to keep it down"

Diana is a melee champion people, saying that isn't making his post wrong,

adidasSep 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

"Just go up and auto attack his shield to keep it down"

Diana is a melee champion people, saying that isn't making his post wrong,

Yep. And especially hard because if you go to hit his shield as any melee champ you will usually lose the trade because yasuos autos are probably top 5 in terms of any mid laner. I would definitly say top 2

SpoofghoulSep 10, 20161 votes

and he he has his q

once you proc shield yas has 2 options retaliate with aa aa Q on the way out and just win the trade even without shield hed win that trade

but he can also back off, since proccing his shield makes you take minion aggro so he takes no damage but you do untill you backoff to make aggro drop giving him time to charge up his knockup and his shield yet again

hes almost never really vulnerable in lane in the 1v1 and as long as you got minions he can get to you whenever he wishes

and in order to go even you will be spamming as much as he does which leaves you oom

GULAG 4 USep 10, 20161 votes

Honestly as diana, what you want to do is to farm hard. Once at level 6 you shit on yasuo so hard it's not even funny anymore. Do not fight yasuo pre5, he shits on most mids before first back. Like just don't, passive farm.

adidasSep 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Honestly as diana, what you want to do is to farm hard. Once at level 6 you shit on yasuo so hard it's not even funny anymore. Do not fight yasuo pre5, he shits on most mids before first back. Like just don't, passive farm.

Yasuos passive absorbs dianas First Q. Then Diana has R-W-R left in her kit for damage.

That will take about 20-30% of yasuos health. Yasuo does not win the fight

GULAG 4 USep 10, 20161 votes

Might wanna rightclick his shield first as yasuo has to get melee to deal damage to diana

adidasSep 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Might wanna rightclick his shield first as yasuo has to get melee to deal damage to diana

And tell me. Who wins the trade in melee range... Diana or yasuo

GULAG 4 USep 10, 20161 votes

Diana duh, yasuo gets no mr per level and diana's burst is godlike, who do you think?

AHeroNamedHawkeSep 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Yasuos passive absorbs dianas First Q. Then Diana has R-W-R left in her kit for damage.

That will take about 20-30% of yasuos health. Yasuo does not win the fight

You're aware that Diana has a massive amount of sustained damage from her passive right?

You're completely ignoring 30% of her kit's damage just to make the matchup "unwinnable"

Diana will literally never lose a trade post 6 to Yasuo unless she's already 0-4

adidasSep 10, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Charles Barklius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hlGlzdPJ,comment-id=00000000000100000001,timestamp=2016-09-10T23:27:56.212+0000)

You're aware that Diana has a massive amount of sustained damage from her passive right?

You're completely ignoring 30% of her kit's damage just to make the matchup "unwinnable"

Diana will literally never lose a trade post 6 to Yasuo unless she's already 0-4

The reason i used Diana in my post is because diana is one of yasuos easier matchups.

You block the Q with windwall, Your passive blocks the first auto, All while you're autoing her.. There is no ''debate'' about it..

My whole thread isnt even about fuckin who wins the matchup, its about why yasuo is frustrating, So i have no idea why we're even discussing who wins the matchup..??

AHeroNamedHawkeSep 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The reason i used Diana in my post is because diana is one of yasuos easier matchups.

You block the Q with windwall, Your passive blocks the first auto, All while you're autoing her.. There is no ''debate'' about it..

My whole thread isnt even about fuckin who wins the matchup, its about why yasuo is frustrating, So i have no idea why we're even discussing who wins the matchup..??

The basis of your claim is that Yasuo is frustrating because you can't do anything to him

While completely ignoring all of the things Diana can do to him

You know she has a shield too right? And is also autoattacking Yasuo while he's autoattacking her, but actually winning the fight?

adidasSep 11, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Charles Barklius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hlGlzdPJ,comment-id=0000000000010000000100000000,timestamp=2016-09-11T01:03:58.221+0000)

You know she has a shield too right?

Yeah. And yasuo can windwall it.

AHeroNamedHawkeSep 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Yeah. And yasuo can windwall it.

So which is it? Is Yasuo Wind Walling her Q or her W?

Let's not even get into the ridiculous reflexes necessary to wall her orbs before they detonate in melee range, you're still ignoring that Diana can just stand still and out damage him past level 4

adidasSep 11, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Charles Barklius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hlGlzdPJ,comment-id=000000000001000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-09-11T01:15:11.031+0000)

So which is it? Is Yasuo Wind Walling her Q or her W?

Let's not even get into the ridiculous reflexes necessary to wall her orbs before they detonate in melee range, you're still ignoring that Diana can just stand still and out damage him past level 4

Lets assume the yasuo sidestepped the Q... Windwall the w win the whole trade

AHeroNamedHawkeSep 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Lets assume the yasuo sidestepped the Q... Windwall the w win the whole trade

So we are now assuming that Yasuo lands 100% of his abilities, but Diana doesn't? What happens if Diana dodges one of his Q's as well, and is fighting in front of her minions so he can't escape? Or if all her orbs detonate instantly on minions, because that's actually what happens here?

You're stretching harder than Micheal Jordan at the end of Space Jam

adidasSep 11, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Charles Barklius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hlGlzdPJ,comment-id=00000000000100000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-09-11T01:20:40.271+0000)

So we are now assuming that Yasuo lands 100% of his abilities, but Diana doesn't? What happens if Diana dodges one of his Q's as well, and is fighting in front of her minions so he can't escape? Or if all her orbs detonate instantly on minions, because that's actually what happens here?

You're stretching harder than Micheal Jordan at the end of Space Jam

Diana Cant dodge yasuos skills.

Yasuo CAN block dianas skills.

Diana cant block E-Q-Ult

Yasuo CAN block/windwall diana W and Q or absorb Q dmg with passive.

Im not stating an opinion. Im stating a fact.

AHeroNamedHawkeSep 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Diana Cant dodge yasuos skills.

Yasuo CAN block dianas skills.

Diana cant block E-Q-Ult

Yasuo CAN block/windwall diana W and Q or absorb Q dmg with passive.

Im not stating an opinion. Im stating a fact.

Except you aren't

Diana can dodge Yasuo's abilities, Q's can be sidestepped and you can dash at the same time as his EQ combo to avoid the knockup or E him mid dash to stop it, forcing him to land the skillshot instead

Yasuo cannot disengage from Diana unless she's positioned to have her minions between her and his tower, and will lose sustained trades

Diana can pop Yasuo's passive with an auto or single W pop and full combo him, or even just blow everything on his passive and W like an idiot. It doesn't matter because WW is on a 26 second cooldown and his passive is on a 14 second cooldown. Her basic combo will be up again before then, and she can all in him

The only time Diana's W will be destroyed by Wind Wall is if she uses it early and walks at him with the orbs spinning

You've never played this matchup at any skill level of note, and really have no understanding of it

It's time to stop friend

adidasSep 11, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Charles Barklius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hlGlzdPJ,comment-id=0000000000010000000100000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-09-11T02:27:15.400+0000)

Except you aren't

Diana can dodge Yasuo's abilities, Q's can be sidestepped and you can dash at the same time as his EQ combo to avoid the knockup

So use your R to dodge his basic E-Q that has no CD..? Yeah sounds smart

Yasuo cannot disengage from Diana unless she's positioned to have her minions between her and his tower, and will lose sustained trades

I mean unless you consider a mini pull ''better'' disengage... Diana cant either.

Diana can pop Yasuo's passive with an auto or single W pop and full combo him, or even just blow everything on his passive and W like an idiot. It doesn't matter because WW is on a 26 second cooldown and his passive is on a 14 second cooldown. Her basic combo will be up again before then, and she can all in him

Then you realize yasuo bought a hex drinker ( Like every ad mid laner should ) and suddenly dianas damage is either absorbed by windwall/passive or completely low

The only time Diana's W will be destroyed by Wind Wall is if she uses it early and walks at him with the orbs spinning

Or if he literally presses windwall when they start fighting..

You've never played this matchup at any skill level of note, and really have no understanding of it

Yeah as someone who played diana as their first champ and fell in love. You're right. i have no experience with it

It's time to stop friend

Same to you mr.yasuo main

AHeroNamedHawkeSep 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

So use your R to dodge his basic E-Q that has no CD..? Yeah sounds smart

I mean unless you consider a mini pull ''better'' disengage... Diana cant either.

Then you realize yasuo bought a hex drinker ( Like every ad mid laner should ) and suddenly dianas damage is either absorbed by windwall/passive or completely low

Or if he literally presses windwall when they start fighting..

Yeah as someone who played diana as their first champ and fell in love. You're right. i have no experience with it

Same to you mr.yasuo main

Were you dropped on your head? The orbs explode almost instantly if in melee range of enemy units, it cannot be wind walled in time.

And his EQ does have a cooldown. It has a cooldown on you. For the next 10-6 seconds he has to aim all of his Qs and cannot rely on the spin

Yasuo rushing a Hexdrinker means he's lost lane. He will not win further trades against you, he'll just be a bit harder to burst out. That's 1300g invested into 0 attack speed or crit chance

For the 9th time, Diana doesn't have to disengage. Yasuo is the one that needs to run after a trade, because once his shield is gone he will begin to lose in damage. Sticking around long enough for Diana's Q to come back up means hes dead

And you missed what I said, a skill level of note, not silver level where people still throw all their skills into Wind Wall and don't wait out Yasuo's passive. I mained Yasuo in Diamond for all of season 4 when Diana was meta, you played her twice

2yordles1cupcakeSep 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

"Just go up and auto attack his shield to keep it down"

Diana is a melee champion people, saying that isn't making his post wrong,

Agreed, give Yasuo his 2'nd proc so he spamsmorez his nado faster.

Yaśuo MainSep 10, 20162 votes

Approved by me, a Yasuo main.

zacktootallSep 10, 20161 votes

i think someone else explained it better it's that you can do something about him but if you blink you miss the chance to do so

Jinzo TorranceSep 10, 20161 votes

Just like Riven, Yasuo is fun to play for his resourceless dashes, and frustrating to play against for the same reason. If you win against a Yasuo most of the time boils down to if he's skilled or not with Yasuo, that's my theory on all the hate Riven and him get.

Handy Sandy Sep 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Just like Riven, Yasuo is fun to play for his resourceless dashes, and frustrating to play against for the same reason. If you win against a Yasuo most of the time boils down to if he's skilled or not with Yasuo, that's my theory on all the hate Riven and him get.

At least riven doesn't just press W in some direction and blocks all your projectiles

GULAG 4 USep 10, 20161 votes

Windwall doesn't stop all cc, but he's def not fun to play against.

EnosetcSep 10, 20161 votes

diana can just blow yasuo tf up

first q gets windwalled. ok? wait for your q to come back up. it's on a shorter cooldown than yasuo's w

land second q, target gapcloser that can be used twice, e that can interrupt his dash if timed right, a shield of her own that can be used to mitigate any return damage

diana has plenty of tools to annihilate a yasuo in lane. it's up to her summoner to use them

LadyRenlySep 10, 20161 votes

Yasuo is a lane bully to most champions, and scales into a hypercarry.

On top of that, Yasuo can never, ever ever be useless. Even if he is 0/20, he can screw your entire team over with windwall. So on top of being a hyper carry, he still has wicked utility. And even if he is 0/20, he can always come back.

PermabannedGarenSep 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I dont know if its the same thing as being broken or having too much but here.

IMO the biggest problem with yasuo, is that there is more things he can do to you, rather than what you can do to him..

For example lets take an ordinary mid matchup?

Yasuo vs Diana

Diana Can...

Q poke and all in eventually ( may run out of mana )

Has better CC potential when jungler comes to gank

Yasuo Can...

Poke with nados permanently.

Passive absorbs dianas Q damage.

Can decide when to all in with an easy E-Q and force diana Q to either miss because how close he is OR passive will absorb that. So diana will be left with W and R which will not do enough damage at all.( Dianas melee so she will be in range inevitably )

Yasuo can situationaly run away when he needs to, Diana cant.

If getting ganked, Yasuo can windwall a hard CC , Diana is forced to sidestep.

You chose one of the most binary and stat-checky mid laners who is both melee and immobile without her ult to compare to Yasuo. I'm not sure if you intentionally chose a stupid example to warp make your argument work, or if you're just genuinely ignorant of how stupid comparing a ball of stats melee champion to someone like Yasuo is.

Yes, Yasuo has more options than Diana... because Diana's method of play only involves jumping on an enemy and winning or not largely by virtue of the numbers in each champion's respective kits. This doesn't demonstrate a problem with Yasuo's design. It's a problem with Diana's.

I also love that you're using a champion with a low play rate as an example of an "ordinary lane match up".

Let's compare him to Ahri, a far more regular mid laner.

Ahri can:

Easily destroy Yasuo's shield with a single AA.
Harass with Q.
All-in with E>Q>W, when six she can add her ult to her repertoire.
Chase Yasuo with her ult.
Escape ganks with the movement speed on her Q and her ult far better than Yasuo can.

See what I'm saying?

You chose a champion like Diana who is inherently very low in outplay, on the part of her or her enemies, and compared her to an actually mechanically versatile champion.