I know he's not exactly top priority on the balance list, but the few times I hear people complain about popular LCS champions, I hear him mentioned next to Lee. They say that he has an overloaded kit. How? What should he be like compared to the other tanks?
Direwolfiez9 votesHe has a displacement + dash, knockback + AA boost, shield + friendly reposition, and a massive slowing box. One of his few drawbacks is his lack of natural armor, which is offset by his passive if your ADC knows how to CS and you're willing to take some poke.
Don't get me wrong, I love Thresh, but he's overloaded as hell. He outshines a lot of other champs at what he does, except niche tanks, which, again, don't tend to see the light of day because they aren't as generally useful as Thresh is.
Pyro4 votesDon't get me wrong, I love Thresh, but he's overloaded as hell.
To people who don't understand what means "overloaded" here:
Let's be honest here: Thresh could lose the second drag from Q, slow from E and poke from E and he would still be the best support in the game. And it would put him in a much better place.
WolfBV1 votesDon't remove the poke from E. I want to keep adc thresh alive pls. 
DotEleven1 votesTo people who don't understand what means "overloaded" here:
- Q is a skillshot nuke that stuns the target
- ...and allows you to dash to them if you please
- AND drags them to you
- TWICE (seriously, they move twice by a small amount)
- oh, and did I mention it has a flat 3s cooldown reduction if you hit the hook, and it's applied after % CDR?
- W is a shield for
all alliesthe first ally that comes close to it- ...and it grants free unobstructed movement (functionally a blink) to an ally that clicks it
- AND the target destination updates as you move
- E is an AoE knockback that can be used as both engage and disengage
- ...and it has a significant slow on it afterwards
- AND it empowers your basic attacks, allowing you to poke, because this kit wasn't overloaded enough.
- Ultimate is fairly simple compared to the whole rest of this kit.
Let's be honest here: Thresh could lose the second drag from Q, slow from E and poke from E and he would still be the best support in the game. And it would put him in a much better place.
Q is a skillshot. With a large windup to it. And as you stated it's twice but it's a very tiny nudge, you move more when hit by Ahri's Charm. Oh, and did you forget to mention that the flat 3s cooldown reduction for hitting a hook was added because they increased the cooldown so Thresh's that miss can't throw out as many hooks but those that hit can? Now then, as a Thresh player I will admit one problem here and that's when getting 40% CDR and the hook CD gets down to 4 seconds if you hit.
W is a shield for the first ally and grants safety to an ally that clicks it. Except you can in fact be knocked out of it. Stuns, displacements, can all stop you mid flight.
E is an AoE knockback that has a very MINUTE slow. 20-40% min-max level for 1.5 seconds. And it gives you ONE empowered auto-attack on a low AA range champ that needs to wind-up and is based on a stat he doesn't get (AD) and the amount of random soul drops he does get.
VDc0zCqe0w3 votesthe empowered AA on E just shouldn't exist, it's a tank who is also ranged and can poke?
wtf is this thing, does Leona have such a thing as a ranged harras?
makes no sense, Thresh is missing the only weakness non-sustain tank supports have: lack of poke
MPendragon7 votesHe's a well balanced champion. I wouldn't exactly consider him a tank.
Done251 votesHe's a well balanced champion. I wouldn't exactly consider him a tank.
He's not a Tank, he's actually more of a Fighter with a longer than normal range. He's like a more melee focused Urgot if that helps to put it into perspective.
Passive - Makes his better against physical damage (In other words, fighting the enemy Marksman) Q - A single target hard CC that's easier to land the closer he is, can't be used to escape from a 1v1. W - Shields himself and one other ally. Can be used to call for help. E - Close range AoE CC. Gives wave clear and a bonus on-hit effect to make him better at 1v1 late game. R - Damages the first champion to touch a wall.
Direwolfiez16 votesQ - A single target hard CC that's easier to land the closer he is, can't be used to escape.
Actually, this is wrong. People use it on jungle creeps all the time to escape, it's really useful if you just think...outside The Box.
https://40.media.tumblr.com/4c863cdc9f9efee9da70794dad87cb6a/tumblr_n90q8tBOJg1sxduo6o6_400.jpg
Done251 votesActually, this is wrong. People use it on jungle creeps all the time to escape, it's really useful if you just think...outside The Box.
https://40.media.tumblr.com/4c863cdc9f9efee9da70794dad87cb6a/tumblr_n90q8tBOJg1sxduo6o6_400.jpg
Ha, nice one. XD But I meant in the sense that you can't escape the person you CC, since you drag them along with you.
Direwolfiez1 votesTrue, but his E is perfectly adequate to use for escapes, as long as the person chasing doesn't have a slow or a gap closer. I use it all the time as a disengage whenever I play him in ARAM or normals, and it generally works great.
Done251 votesTrue, but his E is perfectly adequate to use for escapes, as long as the person chasing doesn't have a slow or a gap closer. I use it all the time as a disengage whenever I play him in ARAM or normals, and it generally works great.
You forgot that it only works in close range, which is why I said he's more melee focused. And I was only talking about his Q. :P E is a good escape skill.
Direwolfiez1 votesAnd I was only talking about his Q.
Wow, me so smart. I really need some more coffee...
SpecterVonBaren4 votesTrue, but his E is perfectly adequate to use for escapes, as long as the person chasing doesn't have a slow or a gap closer.
So as long as the person isn't Mordekaiser?
InsaneSamurai1 votesMost of the time, yeah, but I've seen a really low Thresh use it to pull a melee champ into him then flay him back away before he died(somehow).
Pikmints1 votesHe literally is a fighter. He used to be a ranged tank with immense crowd control and utility that infinitely got stronger the longer a match went on (being also one of the very few ranged champs whose basic attack can't be blocked by Yasuo's Windwall), but then Riot took a step back and tuned his defensive stats back from being a tank to a fighter.
Done251 votesHe literally is a fighter. He used to be a ranged tank with immense crowd control and utility that infinitely got stronger the longer a match went on (being also one of the very few ranged champs whose basic attack can't be blocked by Yasuo's Windwall), but then Riot took a step back and tuned his defensive stats back from being a tank to a fighter.
IMO Being a Fighter or Tank has NOTHING to do with defensive stats. It's not like only Rammus can but Thornmail, and only Renekton can buy Frozen Mallet. It has to do with the playstyle.
Fighters like to use their superior damage to force a 1v1, while Tanks prefer AoE so as to deal as much damage as possible to multiple targets at a time.
Such as Lee Sin (Fighter) going Q - R - Q to wipe out that pesky Caitlyn, while Amumu (Tank) uses Despair, Tantrum, and Curse of the Sad Mummy to wear out her whole team.
Thresh follows the single target style. Q into a target, use Flay to pull them in towards him when they try to run, then auto attack them while they try to get out of range before your Q comes up again.
VDc0zCqe0w1 voteshe's not balanced at all rotfl
broken since release = balanced kappa
Wînter Fox6 votes[{quoted}](name=Chromatic Eagle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hlBacvAX,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-01-11T21:47:16.710+0000)
Is there anything wrong with Thresh?
No, and that's precisely the problem.
Done254 votesBecause mobility is king and he has JUST enough CC To either get a flash or an outright kill with every gank.
MrBuffington4 votesBasically, he can do pretty much anything any other support can do with varying degrees of effectiveness; imo it isn't so much that he's especially stellar in any area, he's just great at everything, similar, imo, to Lee Sin.
You have supports that excel at getting picks like Morgana or Blitz; Thresh can make picks pretty well. You have supports that are great at disengaging/protecting carries like Janna or Braum; Thresh has great peel with his E and also can save people pretty easily with W, his R is also pretty good for disengage. You have supports with good sustain with shields/healing like Soraka and Sona; Thresh has a pretty powerful shield with his W as well. You have good engage supports like Leona and Alistar; Thresh has good engage with his Q and can also bring a teammate in with W, and his R after a QE is also pretty good for engages too. You have good poke supports like Karma; Thresh has okay poke with his E passive auto, the list goes on.
Basically he's not really as great at any of these things as any of the aforementioned champions, but he's good enough that he can compete pretty dang well with any of them, and is better in areas where his opponent isn't, which imo is why he's so common in professional play (he fits into a lot of compositions because he's super flexible, and he's also great because if you pick him early, the enemy team doesn't necessarily know what composition your team is playing. For example, if you pick someone like Leona, the enemy team knows you're probably playing a hard engage composition, and therefore a good disengage support like Janna is an effective counter). The only area where I don't think he's as competitive is in damage; supports like Annie and Zyra crush him pretty bad in this area imo.
tl;dr: Most supports have like 2-3 areas where they're super strong, and are weak or completely lacking in other areas (ie. Zyra doesn't have any sustain); Thresh is pretty strong in almost every area. Jack of all trades, master of none/some sort of deal.
f00G3MxfPP2 votesBasically, he can do pretty much anything any other support can do with varying degrees of effectiveness; imo it isn't so much that he's especially stellar in any area, he's just great at everything, similar, imo, to Lee Sin.
What other champion can execute a lantern save displacing ally a screen away? q-stun cc, minor pull displacement, dash w-ally displacement, shield e-rupt cc, minor displacement pull or push, auto, aoe r-similar to jarvan ult
If you compare him to any other offensive support he just seems better. q is like leona's zenith blade but allows him the option of dashing over. Blitz's grab stuns and displaces opponent over large distance. Thresh can stun and displace ally over larger distance (and gives the ally the option of displacing). He's also ranged unlike leona+blitz so even when his skills are on cooldown, he still has a presence without taking ranged harass all day.
MrBuffington1 votesWhat other champion can execute a lantern save displacing ally a screen away?
I said Thresh can do most thing that other supports can do, not that other supports can do what Thresh can. There's a big difference. I'm also mostly speaking on general strategic terms, less on particular nuances of a kit; I often find with the latter, people drift into the "QQ champions have abilities" territory. It's important for champions to have strengths. Thresh lantern is a really cool part of his kit that makes him unique; the problem imo is that he has practically every other strength you want on support as well. If Thresh were reworked I'd like to see his unique strengths emphasized, like the cool lantern dynamics, and the other aspects of his kit downplayed.
Sachabot4 votesHe's a jack-of-all-trades. In League, such champions give up the punishing numbers of the "pure" champions, but supports don't have super high numbers anyway. His kit allows him to respond to basically any situation, is the problem, so he doesn't really have a "weakness" to counteract it.
Leti the Yeti2 voteshe can save people get people killed tank shit and make LCSBIGPLAYS
Hasztalan22 votesHe is also immune to nerfbat being a "muh lcs playz" champion. He also has a kit which can only made balanced by picking the nerfstick and hit him until he becomes Elise/Olaf tier.
Subject 52 votesWell first we just need to understand what an overloaded kit actually is. And a simple way we are able to do this, is asking ourselves what each ability inside of a kit really does and how it does this.
Take for example, Thresh compared to a champion such as Janna.
Thresh passive gives him infinite scaling for his Armor and Ability power, giving him two edges rather than one standard edge most champions not designed by Mr. T.
Thresh has a Q, this hook is capable of displacement, strong cc, playmaking, scales with his infinite AP, he can use his hook to save his life by transporting himself to non potential threats. This is only his Q.
Thresh also has a W, this W is capable of many things such as shielding a team member from damage including ignite and AOE damage. Team members can click this lantern to get out of harms way, secure a kill, position, fake bait, real bait, takes facechecking out of the question while most supports are forced to get into harms distance to place a ward and possibly get caught. This ability also scales infinitely, and at late game is very comparable if not even better than Lulu and her shield due to the Olaf treatment she had received.
Thresh has an E ability that is capable of displacement, slowing down the enemy to secure a kill or protect a teamate, this ability can be used offensively and defensively. This ability scales infinitely with AP and has high synergy with AA's, it allows Thresh to become a poke champion and can do effective damage that nullifies the enemy laner from farming effectively as they may normally had against a Janna or Lulu for example.
Thresh has an ultimate that has real damage and a 99% percent slow, to take this into perspective this slow is slower than Nasus slow and can also be applied multiple times. The damage scales with his Passive, and applying the ultimate is as easy as landing a hook without any form of risk of dieing before you are able to do so. This ultimate controls AOE forms of strategy on the battlefield that is very good peel as well as very good offensive play. This ultimate can hit multiple champions multiple times, and often times hit MOST of the walls.
Janna has a local (It was nerfed from universal) passive that gives 5% movement speed to allies around her in a very short distance.
Janna has a Q that can knock up enemy champions who are foolish enough to walk in front of the obvious trap, and has terrible damage, scaling and needs to be wound up 100% if it was to be considered an actual damage threat.
Janna has a W that can slow enemy champions who get into threat distance of the ally adc or Janna herself, this scales horrifically into AP and lasts for a brief period of time, very similar to a Lulu Q.
Janna has a E that can shield your ally teammates from taking any form of damage (I may be wrong, does True damage ignore shields?). This scales very well into the late game and is a force to be mentioned while team fighting, such as "Will i be able to actually kill this adc with Janna around? She is not a threat, but if i don't kill the adc i know i will NOT be able to escape." The exception being Fizz, Zed and other champions with overloaded kits.
Janna has an ultimate that pushes away the enemy team, healing your team for a good ratio and can be used tactically to take over a dragon or perhaps a baron after a team fight this the enemy team may have survived enough to contest if it did not heal the enemy team.
Now look at the two things these champions provide on the battlefield, who has more capabilities and who is more versatile as well as having more of an overloaded kit. Now, would it be jaw dropping for me to say that Janna is unhealthy for the game and Thresh is not? I do not agree with anymore Thresh nerfs or anything else, he is in a perfectly fine position and should remain where he is-however he WILL be picked always because he simply brings too much to the table for other supports to actually begin to keep up with. It is like trying to play against a professional in SC2 whilst you are also a professional, but the difference being a 50% handicap on your edge.
Riot thinks these champions are unhealthy for the game. Also, these champions will be nerfed even if they are literally dead in the ground.
Janna (Did you know that Janna is getting nerfed?) Lulu (I miss her) Sona (Did you know that Sona is getting nerfed?)
Subject 51 votesI would like to mention, that a kit that is not considered to be overloaded usually has 1 or 2 capabilities. An overloaded kit usually have far more than this. A kit that is not overloaded looks like Janna and her shield. It is a shield, it does shield things like protect people and that is what it simply does.
Thresh also has a shield as for an example for an overloaded kit, but this shield scales infinitely, you can use it to get out of trouble or into the battle and you can use it to check bushes before warding or when ever you want, you can use it to bait people or false bait to keep pressure into the bot lane. Have you ever seen a thresh pull that lantern back for a "Gank" but nothing happens? You just missed a few cs, that is a ward if not more and he continues to do this until that "Gank" is actually a gank.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/954437-league-of-legends/68934978
I don't agree with CertainlyT is a terrible champ designer, but Riot NEEDS to understand that champions without overloaded kits are incapable of actually keeping up and need to have some form of advantage other than getting the front page Patch ### for being nerfed for this and that.
DarkenedSoul4201 votesI like thresh but he IS alot more versatile than say a leona or blitz. Leona and blitz have alot of all in potential but not the most amazing peel. Thresh is also the kind of support that wants to all in if he lands a hook but the lantern and flay are also some of the best tools for peel, so essentially Thresh can do it all
Adalore1 votesI keep seeing all this "Thresh can do it all" bits and... guys his poke is snot. He needs to get within 450 range to even poke with his auto attack E passive...which takes TEN seconds to charge up.
Now yes, he is VERY powerful when ahead but most crowd control focused supports are, he is very good at the burst of action thing and does become a peeling monster late game with 40% CDR but so does a lot of CC supports...
The infinite scaling is really non-issue until after level 18, the soul drop rate is currently tuned to take place of his armor per level that he doesn't have, so until you get TO late game you are not getting a real excess of "Free" armor.
(alleged credentials played thresh at release in ranked, experienced his opness and thinks that his nerfs were sufficient.)
Subject 51 votes"I know he's not exactly top priority on the balance list, but the few times I hear people complain about popular LCS champions, I hear him mentioned next to Lee. They say that he has an overloaded kit. How? What should he be like compared to the other tanks?"
In case you forgot to read, i posted this for you. It is opening post that Chromatic Eagle posted in order to actually make this post into the Beta forums. But if you did read, we are stating all of the things his kit enables him to do. So what if he needs to get into range to do this or that? Or time to do this or that, we are stating that he has an overloaded kit. Eagle stated that he wants to know how he has an overloaded kit and we all stated all of the things his kit enables, it does not matter if you say "But . . ." he is capable of doing so. Look below on my post and the link i gave you below, if you would like i can give you an example for Yasuo, Zed and more champions with overloaded kits if you need more examples. Pyro down there also made a very good list which looks nicer than mine, check that out as well.
InsaneSamurai1 votesToo much utility and too much overbearing lane control simply by being there and having his hook. Also, IMO, too much penalizing the player who gets hit by one skillshot for getting hit by one skillshot.
SleepyLionCub1 votesYou could remove his ult and he would still have more hard cc than most supports.
