Rammus: W damage return increased to 25% vs minions and monsters
Hecarim: Rampage damage not reduced vs monsters
Nautilus: W persists after shield is broken
Skarner: passive stun duration vs monsters increased to 1 second
Zac: killing a large monster with an ability generates three bloblets
Do for these junglers what you did for your Favorite Child Nidalee and the jungle will be balanced again.
Raptamei25 votesNautilus: W persists after shield is broken
They don't want to do this because it is supposed to help him draw fire. It gives him counterplay.
Colgate Gator3 votesThey don't want to do this because it is supposed to help him draw fire. It gives him counterplay.
They could always make it so it makes half damage when the shield isn't up or something.
Drukyul3 votesIt's less depressing to word it as "does double damage when the shield is up".
Solaxo46 votesYeah because Lee Sin has so much counterplay
AbrahamBaconham6 votes
=/= 
Fisk5 votesLee Sin doesn't have to much counter play but he also doesn't have snowballing potential without getting extremely fed and rely's on the fact that he has to actually out play his opponent in every situation. His kit is a pain but hes not OP, just a very consistent champ. Stop QQing
MajorPain94 votesPlease go ahead and list any of these tanky junglers that have snowball potential.
Only Play Darius2 votesHave seen a 
pentakill.
Lord Graves III4 votesHecarim and Skarner get disgusting when fed.
Angry Monster2 votesplease. They end up building mostly tank. And half their abilities scale with AP.
Lord Graves III4 votesHave you seen a game where a tank gets fed out of control? Its disgusting.
Hecarim with Triforce, Sunfire, Spirit Visage, and.... hell I don't know. Ravanous, Black cleaver, Youmuus, Pick your doom. He already is stronger late game than most. Letting him get there quicker is a death knell.
Lee Sin usually builds tank too. Whats the point?
Angry Monster2 votesOnly if.they are an item up on others they are out of control. The same could be said for any.champ. When items are equal the tank always lose
From phone
Lord Graves III1 votes...What is getting fed? what is snowballing? what is it to be winning mid game if not to be up an item?
Angry Monster2 votesMy point is they are out of control ONLY if ahead/fed. The point is ANY champ can do that. You are acting like its cause of the build/ champ, when its not. You can take your original statement and apply to any champ. Just cause your being stupid and apply it two does not matter.
Zed is a monster when fed, So it Kat, Ahri, Cass, treme, riv, jayic, Lucain, vayne, EVEN GAREN or any fucking champ. Hence being ahead. Talking about champs be strong when ahead is stupid.
Lord Graves III1 votesso when it was said here,
Please go ahead and list any of these tanky junglers that have snowball potential.
And I included Hecarim and Skarner. If everyone is scary when fed, then why in the world are people denying that they in fact can get fed?
Talking about champs be strong when ahead is stupid.
Then what are you doing here? He asked for tanky junglers with snowball potential. I offered a few. You are moving the goalposts by saying "But it doesn't count if they are ahead!".
MajorPain91 votesBecause they can alll get fed. No one is denying that in game. A skarner can get fed. A lee can get fed a lot easier because of his abilities to escape death and execute.
Lord Graves III1 votesI just linked in my last post the guy who was denying that. I just showed you that. Thats why I brought them up.
MajorPain91 votesNo they don't. I mained Skarner. I know his true potential. He is at a new phase in identity that doesn't know wether to build damage or tankiness and its quite obvious. The nerfed him because of his snowball potential to lessen it.
The Ellimiist1 votesNasus, GG your move.
MajorPain91 votesWhen was the last time you saw a succesful nasus outside silver?
MrSc0tty14 votesThey don't want to do this because it is supposed to help him draw fire. It gives him counterplay.
So why is it that skillshot gapcloser reliant Lee sin and Amumu don't need extra Counterplay?
The other alternative is higher shield bases in the early levels but I wanted to do it without increasing any combat stats vs champions.
Narasimha2 votesAmumu's power is in the rest of his abilities. A 2 sec large AOE stun is quite considerable, not to mention his other abilities are pretty decent AOEs as well.
VardenSalad4 votesIt isn't a stun; you can still use abilities and item actives. No idea why people still think it's a stun after 5 years.
S4DLyF32 votesIt's a snare, amirite?
Joe Dredd3 votesIt's an entangle
VardenSalad2 votesIt is an entangle, as described here.
killd0zer8 votesStrawman: the post
Baron Von Bangin5 votesI remember an AMA with Yasuo. Riot said that originally his wall broke if player hit it with enough crap, but they scrapped that idea because the "correct" play was the wrong one over and over. Why is attacking him while he has his shield up rewarded? Shouldn't you wait for it so break like other shield in the game? (I.E. You don't just keep throwing spells at Morgana's black shield, you hit it with AD or wait for it to end.)
Why is Nautilus self buff the only one in the game that is determined by other players?
TheRainInSpain2 votesI would be quite happy if you could prevent or delay Yasuo's innate shield (not the Wind Wall) by attacking him. This way, a DOT type mage (Teemo) could be a good hard counter because of the constant barrage of DOT.
Nope.
This gives him a rather stupid amount of free protection for such a squishy champion. At least Riven (who's the idiot who made it scale with AD) has to blow a cooldown to get her shield.
LeeDark3 votesBecause the purpose of a shield on a non-tank is to discourage attacking them. For Yasuo, there is no point in poking him unless you can follow up and hit his health bar after you clear his shield, which is why you basic attack the shield if you can and then hit him after it falls off. Morgana's shield actively prevents you from CCing the person, so not only does it discourage damage, but CC as well.
Nautilus, on the other hand, is a tank. A tank WANTS people to attack him, especially while his shield is up. So, while it is up, he is something of an actual damage threat, spreading around a nasty little DoT. It is a soft taunt; it doesn't force people to attack him, but strongly encourages it.
patmax171 votesJust to be sure, so you agree with the previous post?
LeeDark2 votesUm, no. The person I replied to was talking about how his damage shouldn't be tied to the shield, because that makes attacking him during the shield the correct play, and shields should be able to be ignored. I explain how this is only true of DPS. You wait out Yasuo's shield after proccing it with an autoattack so you can harass him between shields. You don't blow CC on Black Shield because it would be a waste.
Nautilus is different because he is a tank. A tank WANTS people to attack, so he has to give them a reason to do so. Making Naut's damage buff dependent on the shield acts a soft taunt, and the person I replied to doesn't want this. I think it is exactly the kind of tank mechanic we need. The hard CC of a real taunt doesn't much fit the game, honestly, and should be used very sparingly. Allowing tanks to force people to attack them to reduce their damage is much better.
Ch0c0lateJesus20 votesHecarim: Rampage damage not reduced vs monsters
Since when does hecarim need help?
Minrog13 votesMeanwhile, back at the Dojo, Shen sheds a silent tear. Not for the days when he was played like a Miley Cyrus song, but for the times he was categorized as a tank who could jungle. Maybe even just for when he got considered at all for anything.
ModWulf Helhammer5 votes(whispers) river shen
Kingsgrave12 votesChanging Naut's W in that way would make his Top lane much better than his Jungle to be honest
Skarner and Hecarim honestly aren't tanks, they are bruisers with lackluster item builds and optimization. Skarner would be better with more AD and Physical damage and Hecarim is honestly okay as a Top laner, he just needs to take less damage in the Jungle.
KaisadiIIa17 votesHecarim is honestly okay as a Top laner, he just needs to hurt less in the Jungle.
He won't get better at top for dealing more damage to monsters. This is literally the change he needs.
1st HanarSpectre9 votesHecarim and Skarners are not tanks, they are 100% bruisers.
Xela Syab7 votesIf Juggernaut had 20% increased movespeed toward allies under 50% health it would help jungle tanks, then they can engage and defend lanes faster.
JungHai07 votes
TheI3igDaddy2 votesI've played cho jungle this season and last; he's very underrated. His sustain lets him clear without worry after his first back.
WeFlyNoLie5 votesThe proposed Zac change really does nothing for him. His clear time and sustain is excellent if you manage your cooldowns well around picking up bloblets only when W is on CD.
The problem with Zac is there's really no reason to take him over somebody like Lee Sin or Vi. They bring roughly the same amount of CC but with better damage and better passives.
If you have a Yasuo though, take Zac as your jungler, you can easily get him fed since Yasuo's ult works off both his E and R. Synergy is strong.
I mean, don't get me wrong, Zac's still great, I love playing as him. He's a champion I would rank near the top in terms of fun. I just think he needs some sort of tank steroids to really be considered a tank. All he really does is scale his W off his HP for more damage. His passive is also incredibly lackluster and situational.
mack91123 votesI would be happy to call myself a zac main as I have a considerable number of games under my belt with him . At the current time I find taking zac very successful as a pure ap burst Mage as his ratios allow for some considerable damage.
I feel his abilities just need a little incentive for him to be a tank such as one of his abilities doing damage based on how much health he has and perhaps his e can have a slightly shorter cooldown earlier on just because 24 secs is a awful long time.
I know it was removed as well but it would be nice if his r ability received the same treatment as Sions does in regard to cc.
Zac with proper management of his passive should never have to recall except to buy simple fact.
JJI7445 votesMost of those changes are kinda aweful.
Hec doesn't have problems with clear speed, mana is the main problem he has. Skarner doesn't worry about taking damage, its the blue bar that concerns him. Zac already sustains well, its the clear speed that holds him back.
The Naut changes would just be removing the intended counterplay. His shield needs a bit more base value at low levels.
VegetableFoe2 votesZac clears fast. He's a bit like Aatrox or Olaf where he's always 30-50% health in the jungle. A big thing about Zac is that his early game sucks. His E is too short range early and his W which is his main DPS is hard to use in ganks because the blob mechanic doesn't work well when you're chasing. His jungle clearing is not a problem at all, he's better than Jarvan or Lee Sin or Nidalee at clearing the jungle in fact. It's that he can't have much impact on lanes until he's lvl 9+. Also, his ultimate is a little awkward for ganking since it's easy to flash away and not take the full damage and the knockback can even ruin his own ultimate. He's a teamfighter, not a ganker. He can really only gank once he's about lvl 9 and once duel once he has two or more items so he can live long enough for his W DPS to come into play.
Zyntin1 votesI've played rammus lately jungling (non-ranked). He's a good jungler again, but his lackluster clear is troublesome for leveling compared to some assassins or fighters.
His Powerball could go faster again... about what it was in I think s2. To many mobility moves now with other champs.
JC DarkOmen5 votesThe problems that need to be addressed with tank junglers is surviving the jungle, not obnoxious ganking. Changes should be jungle-related only.
Thefriendlyorc3 votesFellow rammus jung here. My only complaint is when jarvan is on the other team. He's just as tanky, does more damage, has more clear, has better ganks, has better dueling. It's so painful to chase him, fight him.
