Perception = reality in most of the player base.

ItsCalledALance··78 votes·3,428 views

I lol'ed when I read this:

>There was one time when I was pretty new at Rito where I submitted a Vladimir nerf (removing the bonus speed from his pool) but forgot to actually submit the files into the patch. As a result, the patch notes went out and sentiment was that we had killed the champion. Vladimir’s play rate plummeted and his win rate decreased a bit, even though the changes never actually went out.<

>We had a similar instance when Riven was released where she was viewed as very weak. We hotfixed in some buffs and shortly after posting it to the forums, her play rate spiked and feedback was very positive. Players happily reported how great the buffs felt, even though the hotfix hadn’t actually gone live yet."<

From:

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/xwOObpq2-live-gameplay-qa-issue-1-feat-feralpony-smashgizmo

By: Scarizard

Goes to show, that how people feel about a champ, will effect how they play the champ.

I had not considered this. Perhaps I should change the way to look at my champion pool and start assuming they are OP =)

74 Comments

Korillo47 votes

The placebo effect. Nobody played Ryze until Faker started using it at worlds (talking season 5). After that he became a huge power pick and has even warranted recent nerfs.

Obviously there are far more examples but you're right perception means a lot.

ItsCalledALance10 votes

IIRC we saw the same thing with Lucian upon release, from what I remember the prevailing NA opinion was that he was junk. Enter Korea and now hes a standard ADC option in almost all games.

SeargentAnus16 votes

Or the 'nerf' they did to him that gave him one of the highest win rates of all time lol

Pale Pirate5 votes

Lucian is a weird way to spell Ahri

My Waifu Vanilla6 votes

Ah the good old low cd E that removed slows. Such a big nerf.

Handin Out Naps3 votes

His name was Lucian Bolt. Good times.

Meep Man2 votes

This happened before that. I bought Lucian on release, actually did pretty decent with him. Never felt like I had no chance ever in a game. People still called him garbage.

I go to sleep and the next day, LUCIAN META OP GG! Crazy how that works huh?

Hellioning7 votes

Lucian also got buffed almost immediately after release. He probably wasn't as bad as people thought he was at launch, but the buffs didn't help.

Catastrop3 votes

He actually was kind of bad but that's mostly because of crappy scaling and bugs on his Passive.

Ariel the Cruel1 votes

Funny part was, people kept copying the OGN Build. Even NA LCS! Even though the Armor pen build was superior in almost every way.

Blastermine1 votes

{quoted}

IIRC we saw the same thing with Lucian upon release, from what I remember the prevailing NA opinion was that he was junk. Enter Korea and now hes a standard ADC option in almost all games.

It's beacuse people were building item 3153 item 3078 instead of item 3072 item 3078 .

Kaeblen3 votes

I picked up Anivia 3 months before she saw her LCS debut last year.

Everyone else realized she was good. I just got mad that these noobs were stealing my best pick.

Korillo3 votes

{quoted}

I picked up Anivia 3 months before she saw her LCS debut last year.

Everyone else realized she was good. I just got mad that these noobs were stealing my best pick.

That's how I feel with Ezreal now :(

YumaS2Astral3 votes

{quoted}

That's how I feel with Ezreal now :(

That's what I felt with mid/top Lulu back in late season 3 and AD Fizz and top Hecarim back in season 4.

Now I play Khazix top/mid and I am just waiting for some pro to use it and then he becomes popular and everyone realizes that it is viable.

S H A Y C 02 votes

there are so many things that applies to. My first lvl 30 match, i tried to take varus mid....i got flamed so hard. A few months later hes all the rage in mid on the pro scene and if you varus mid in low elo your a try hard sheep.

Urgot...nobody plays urgot hes trash. Oh snap lpl urgot mid? better na lcs urgot mid ASAP!! now urgot mid is good....they stopped playing urgot mid, so now urgot mid is bad again and nobody plays urgot.

yesterday i saw lucian top in EU LCS....i cant even begin to predict what will happen next*[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]*

LordKentravyon2 votes

When i started everyone told me "don't play talon he sucks just play zed"

I never liked zed though and i loved the attitude / style of talon so i learned him despite him being "not worth my time, weakest assassin"

Enjoying my talon olay until late spring season 4 damn lcs prick (i think it was voyboy?) decides to pick him and did well

Then BOOM "talon op, 90% pick/ban, your just abusing freelo noob, TALON NERFS WHERE?!?!?"

Regardless of how he actually was the overnight 180 in communtynperception was pretty ridiculous . I also started to live in constant fear of any of my champions being picked in the lcs

DeynaTaggerung3 votes

Actually everyone in high elo was spamming Ryze last year for a few patches when he was really strong even before the pros picked it. That actually was OP at the time.

Tohob18 votes

what people think about the champion strongly affects how well their whole team does, not just the champion themselves. if you see a teammate playing Darius for example, you're like "yea he's got a strong champ we're gunna do good" which makes YOU do good, and makes the rest of your team do good, while the Darius also does good cuz he's sitting there like "hurr durr Darius OP" and your opponents are going "oh great we have to deal with a Darius this is gunna suck" but i bet you anything if you somehow got it into peoples heads that Darius was a weak champion, all those effects would be flipped on their heads. Darius playrate would plummet, his winrate would drop, his opponents would play better and Darius and his teammates would play just a little bit worse.

tl;dr: complaining about a champion being OP actually makes them more OP [slayer-jinx-wink] PS: you can sub every Darius for Fiora or Jax or whoever you want

ItsCalledALance12 votes

woah woah woah! hey now! i'm in bronze, every champ that beats me MUST be op!!

right guys....guys?

Only Play Darius1 votes

Lol I was accused of scripting because I knew how to auto attack reset and windwall-Q with Yasuo

Welcome to Bronze, where it's everyone's fault but yours

Kaeblen1 votes

I prefer to sub in Yasuo .

but then I see these posts on the boards about him: They say he's OP... but they give the wrong reasons why... and then people who play the guy defend him, saying he has these HUGE weaknesses... but they list the wrong things...

DrCyanide1 votes

I think that perception is again why Yasuo is seen as OP in low elo.

You never encounter a Bronze or Silver skill level Yasuo. They've either given up on him or they make enough mistakes that he feels fair. The last 5 or so Yasuos in my games have been smurfs, completely decimating their competition. One of them basically said he was using our ranked game as an alternative to bots. When the only time you see the champion he's played by smurfs, it will distort your perception of their balance.

Surgespace4 votes

Actually here's a fun fact that most of you didn't know. After Darius was nerfed slightly he had the HIGHEST death ratio per game, and one of the top 5 worst win rates. Yet people continued to call him OP and ban him claiming false stats.

Riot knows in League people tend to follow popularity contests of opinions rather than actual facts, which is why they don't change some things that the community finds overwhelming "OP" while in reality it isn't at all

DeathBurst1 votes

And then you have someone like me, who likes laning against a Darius and knows his strengths and weaknesses well, who comforts his team, beat the Darius, and the enemy team goes "You have Darius, how can you lose? OMG, feeder, stop."

And they lose because of their wrong perception and flaming instead of supporting their mate. ^^'

Cheese Pope5 votes

Nobody touched Veigar then he was picked at worlds by Clown 9. All of a sudden he was played every game by everybody and people were complaining about how he was so OP and he needed to be nerfed. Then later on one small nerf comes out then nobody played Veigar ever again (and it was a while after worlds).

Miraweave3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cheese Pope,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hg2cFgak,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-02-04T22:31:27.023+0000)

Nobody touched Veigar then he was picked at worlds by Clown 9. All of a sudden he was played every game by everybody and people were complaining about how he was so OP and he needed to be nerfed. Then later on one small nerf comes out then nobody played Veigar ever again (and it was a while after worlds).

You're kind of ignoring the two large buffs he got the same patch that broke him, and the nerfs he got after.

AllahbamaBlckSnk5 votes

I feel the same way with minion block, except with minion block it hasnt changed.

ItsCalledALance2 votes

its gotten noticeably worse since I started playing. My toon does some pretty erratic things when im running through a stack of minions.

Xenomancers3 votes

Absolutely. Kind of like lux right now. She was nerfed in S4 with a reduction in MS and wasn't touched until last year - was generally considered a trash pick because no pros played her. Kasadin was nerfed a little bit but nothing else has changed since then except her q damage on second impact went up slightly. Now everyone is calling her OP? LOL. Shes the same fething champion.

Unstoppable Monk3 votes

{quoted}

Absolutely. Kind of like lux right now. She was nerfed in S4 with a reduction in MS and wasn't touched until last year - was generally considered a trash pick because no pros played her. Kasadin was nerfed a little bit but nothing else has changed since then except her q damage on second impact went up slightly. Now everyone is calling her OP? LOL. Shes the same fething champion.

Lux Thunderlords didn't exist until now.

The Whamboozler3 votes

Thunderlords was a boost to a lot of champions dude. I won't pretend Lux isn't decent right now but I think it's more how well she fits the current meta over something nerfworthy. If anything they should be trying to bring other less-picked mages up to her level. Then maybe we'll stop seeing AD mids every game throwing the match for their teams by letting the enemy stack armor and spam /laugh.

Drakylon1 votes

{quoted}

Thunderlords was a boost to a lot of champions dude. I won't pretend Lux isn't decent right now but I think it's more how well she fits the current meta over something nerfworthy. If anything they should be trying to bring other less-picked mages up to her level. Then maybe we'll stop seeing AD mids every game throwing the match for their teams by letting the enemy stack armor and spam /laugh.

Thunderlords impacted certain champions far more strongly than others. Lux is an example of one of those; near-unavoidable E or more avoidable Q to get the first counter, then an autoattack (or ult) pops the entire thing because of her passive.

The Whamboozler1 votes

This is true. Sona has an easy time popping it too, and I don't see anyone yelling for Sona nerfs. LeBlanc, Ryze, Diana, Annie, and Ahri can all proc Thunderlords VERY easily too. So can a ton of non-mage champs, like Pantheon, Jayce, Wukong or even Blitz and Leona! Perception = reality, after all. Right now, people are circlejerking over Lux being strong because they want to imagine she's OP. I personally think she has enough downsides built into her kit to justify that strength. She's only strong if you let her sit back and hurl her spells without reprisal and play the game the way she wants to play.

In a few weeks or so some pros or famous streamers will make another mid "OP" by showing what they can do when used properly... and that champ probably won't be OP either. Isn't the entire point of this thread pointing out how league is prone to players imaginations making things real?

Only Play Darius1 votes

I don't care if I'm last pick and we have no AP. I'm going to pick Yasuo/Zed because that's who I'm good with.

Meep Man1 votes

She was being called OP before the Keystones. It started when they removed the slight activation delay from her E.

Xenomancers1 votes

Nah not really...thats a QoL change for people with poor pings. Me at 50 ping it makes almost no difference and in any-case - it should have been that way anyways. Lux should be able to land her E - it's her primary spell...Does annie have any problem landing tibbers? Nope. Complain about something else. Complain that her kit is strong - not that shes able to land spells that she casts right under you.

Unstoppable Monk1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hg2cFgak,comment-id=000200000002,timestamp=2016-02-05T12:32:37.650+0000)

She was being called OP before the Keystones. It started when they removed the slight activation delay from her E.

A lot of champions were called OP in S4. OP was the catch phrase for viable. It really didn't mean anything except in the hands of a very skilled Lux player.

You'd have to chug mana potions in order to lane and could be pushed in from the "weaker" APs. Lux was very beatable by the then "underpowered" Ziggs and pre-rework Viktor had enough pushing waveclear in E to contest.

Season 6 turned her into AP Zed.

Vistha Kai3 votes

Riot is known for making a mess of ability descriptions. That's why I always used wikia to properly check abilities.

Also Vlad's pool speed buff is pretty noticeable. Can't really tell why people believed Riot on that one.

Nah, it's just me who never believes what people say. If Riot says they did something to a champion I play, the first thing for me is testing if that change is true and how actually it affects the champion.

Wickedfates3 votes

Sona OP in my heart no matter what.... nerf her, buff her... she's my boo

Slamurai Jack3 votes

"Riot just gutted Sejuani and now she's terrible." - Every person who hasn't played Sej since mid season 5.

Meanwhile, I'm just here quietly abusing one of the strongest junglers in the game right now. Please continue to keep her playrate low and build her horribly when you do play her so she looks way worse than she is. I really appreciate it.

Xenomancers2 votes

Sejuani sucks right now because everyone is buying swiftness boots as standard and shes really not that tanky and they relaly fcked her ult. Shes pretty weak dude. Nautilus does everything she does a lot better and has abilities that help him tank.

ItsCalledALance1 votes

{quoted}

Sejuani sucks right now because everyone is buying swiftness boots as standard and shes really not that tanky and they relaly fcked her ult. Shes pretty weak dude. Nautilus does everything she does a lot better and has abilities that help him tank.

Such is the state of Udyr.

I smile a bit every time I see someone try to get devourer on him and complain that he is weak.

Only Play Darius1 votes

Yes I'm not understanding the 57% winrate on AP Udyr. The only time I ever see that shit work is with Trick2G, everyone else I see do that fails horribly

ItsCalledALance1 votes

true story right there

JQKAndrei1 votes

Teach me senpai. I wanted to play her again but every time it feels like I either start going ham early or be mediocre and sub-par for the rest of the game, until full build.

Slamurai Jack2 votes

{quoted}

Teach me senpai. I wanted to play her again but every time it feels like I either start going ham early or be mediocre and sub-par for the rest of the game, until full build.

item 1413 item 3025 item 1307 item 3742 item 3065 item 3083 should be your build pretty much every game. The final item is situational but Warmogs is usually your best bet. 12/0/18 masteries with Strength of Ages. AS Marks, HP/lvl Seals, CDR glyphs (any mix is fine so long as you end up with 10%), and AP quints. Early game, you are weak. That means you focus mostly on farming and don't gank unless it's completely free or you can get a safe countergank. Start Talisman+Refillable. Your first clear is any 5 camps. Once you've cleared 5 camps, you back to buy your machete, a hunter's potion, and a pink ward. Start farming again on the same path you started. Once you have your ult, you should look to pull off a gank if possible but otherwise keep farming. You want to get lvl 9 and Cindehulk as quickly as possible because that's when you really take off, and that means you ignore your team to farm for it if you have to.

Your next item is always going to be IBG. The 2 item powerspike of Cinder+IBG on Sejuani is extremely powerful and the sooner you get it, the better. Once you have your 3 main items item 1413 item 3025 item 3009, you'll find you can pretty much outduel everyone else in the game and can very easily solo their mid or top laner and can often even 1v2 their bot lane. This is the point where you want to start looking to push down towers and force teamfights. Assuming your team isn't significantly behind yet, you should win fights fairly easily because of how strong you are. If your team isn't ready to group yet, just keep farming and looking for chances to push side lanes. You waveclear extremely quickly now with your IBG and those Sheen procs make you take towers fairly quickly as well.

The most important thing to remember when playing Sejuani is that, while you are a jungle tank, you are a very selfish jungle tank that scales extremely well, has very high carry potential, and is extremely oppressive when ahead. That means you farm hard, tax hard, and don't panic if things don't go well for your team early. You're one of the hardest scaling champions in the entire game and can easily come back from early deficits, especially if the enemy team comp is bad. Oh, and be sure to actually hit your ults. That helps a lot.

JQKAndrei1 votes

and don't panic if things don't go well for your team early

This, I think this is what made my style go towards early ganks, I also went for summoner 6 summoner 11 to rush to lanes if they were fighting or getting ganked. Result was often that I was slowly falling behind in farm and exp.

Thank you very much, I'll defenetly try it!

Edit: I just tried it out, I was full build by 30 minutes :D

[slayer-pantheon-rainbows]

btw, in fights should I go for squishies or protect my squishies?

Slamurai Jack1 votes

That's one of the best parts about it; your build is so cheap that you can easily get the whole thing before 35 minutes if you get even remotely fed.

To answer your question, you want to be wherever you exert the most control. If that's right in front of your carries controlling the enemy front line, then do that. If your team can handle that without you, then feel free to go onto their carries. In most fights, you'll want to start by holding the frontline and then going in on their squishes once the time is right. Generally speaking, the better your follow up is, the harder you can go for the enemy carries. You have someone like Malphite on your team? You'd better be murdering those carries. Your team's CC and tankiness is weak other than you? Then you're probably better off just being a wall for your team. You're both a tanky CC machine and an anti-carry. How you balance those 2 roles is for you to figure out on a game by game basis. Also, don't forget to get the captain enchant on those boots. It really makes a big difference.

Carpe Victoria1 votes

This is basically the same thing that happens when a champ or build gets pro play and suddenly everyone is playing it and complaining about how OP the champ is even though the champ and items had been in that same exact state 6 months prior.

Ralanr1 votes

I think this is why I don't think Sion is weak. I picked him up long after his "nerfs" (I didn't play pvp when he was reworked) and went to town.

I'm actually a bit afraid of what happens if he gets buffed. I'm worried that those who are good with him as he is now will play him so well that people will cry for nerfs.

And before people ask: I don't see the shield as needing a quicker trigger. It works great with his Q and I tend to max his W first anyway so I can do my job as a tanks. His Q only needs one rank to do its job.

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