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Any word on those Nasus "stat bindings"?

SkyblazeHydraX3··1 votes·1,137 views

Cause I'll be honest, I'm personally really sick of Nasus. Setting aside winrate, which Riot has repeatedly said is not the deciding factor in whether or not a champion gets changes or nerfs, I'm just.... really f-ing sick of this champion as he currently is.

  1. Q has an 4 second cooldown at max rank and costs 20 mana at all ranks.
  2. His two rush items (Iceborn Gauntlet or Frozen Heart) both basically solve his mana issues while putting his Q on a 2.4 second cooldown. IBG also gives him a damage spike, making it easier for him to farm.
  3. Because of his Q, he can build virtually full tank and still be a significant damage or splitpush threat.
  4. His passive is literally free lifesteal, which procs off of his low-cost, low-cooldown Q, meaning poke or harass does very little to him.
  5. His W, which has a range of 600 (recalling the average ADC auto range is 550), slows both movement speed and attack speed by up to (technically, due to MS hard cap) 110% and 55% respectively, meaning you can't duel or run away from him without an effective mobility tool or using up flash.
  6. His E shreds flat armor up to 40 in an AoE, reducing armor instantly.
  7. His ultimate has an aura that deals maximum health damage and converts it into bonus AD for him, up to a cap of 300 bonus AD.

Yes yes, this all sounds like mindless idiotic raging. But Riot said Nasus was going to get some "stat bindings" to accommodate him being a juggernaut around the same time it was said Lux was being examined for changes. Those Lux changes are on PBE now, but so far there's nothing for Nasus. I'm not asking for significant details or iterations, I just wanna know whether or not those are still going on. It just doesn't feel fair fighting Nasus right now- especially when most toplane champions are melee based, making them particularly weak to his overall "I win the duel" kit- and I just want to get some comfort knowing he's being looked at.

I don't wanna see him gutted, I don't wanna see him nerfed into the ground to the point that people who do enjoy playing Nasus aren't able to play him without significant risk; as a Kha'Zix main, I know what that's like. But Riot has actually said that if they made Nasus today, they wouldn't have made him as he is. So I'd like to know if anything is being done to reach a middle ground.

23 Comments

the Anarchit3cht1 votes

thats literally the point of nasus. kite him and hes useless.

SkyblazeHydraX31 votes

I actually took that into account. The average range of an ADC is about 550. Nasus' wither has a range of 600. Plus it's a lot harder to kite nowadays with items like DMP added on to say Swiftness Boots.

In addition, that requires you be ranged. What if you're melee? What are your counterplay options then? "None, you're fucked" is not an okay answer, because Riot has said before they don't want matchups decided in champion select. But with his kit there is no counterplaying him in melee; you either have the stats to win or you don't. These are the same circumstances they cited for why Shen was reworked.

the Anarchit3cht1 votes

literally botrk + 1 dash skill and nas is screwed. you do realize u have a team, right? one stun/snare/slow and he will never catch you.

SkyblazeHydraX31 votes

That's great. And if you're the frontline meant to fight Nasus, getting health lopped off by one Q while he out sustains you because he can build just as much tank as you and still have far more damage and sustain?

the Anarchit3cht1 votes

if a nasus is farmed that much someone somewhere f'd up hard.

SkyblazeHydraX31 votes

Or Nasus sat under tower and kept himself sustained via his passive, stacking his Q with its measly 20 mana cost and its ability to proc Sheen.

It legitimately doesn't matter how passive or aggressive you are with Nasus, as he will simply out sustain you and farm up.

Drak Pinebreaker1 votes

If he is under his tower he isn't under yours, giving it the cane.

If he's under your tower you have the opportunity to do something that isn't watch him farm. Go mid and gank, maybe get a flash from the enemy mid laner so your jungler can come in a minute and get a kill. TP bot and ruin their day. Take Rift Herald with your jungler. TP dragon for a 5v4 teamfight, since Nasus is stuck under his tower getting his stacks.

You don't beat Nasus in lane. Because you're right, he will eventually always farm up to the point where you can't lane against him. So, instead, you beat Nasus by making sure his team is so far behind he can't carry all 4 of them on the cane.

SkyblazeHydraX31 votes

That's my problem with him. You can't fight him or outplay him once he gets his farm; you can only hope the rest of his team ends up behind enough that your team can push or afford to focus down Nasus.

I'm annoyed with Nasus because you have to be reliant on either having superior stats or having counterpicked him in champion select, and even then if you can't go absolutely savage on him it'll eventually all be pointless.

Right now all I want is to hear from Riot that they're still looking at him for those "stat bindings" mentioned a while back.

Drak Pinebreaker1 votes

He is "outplayed" by slows, kiting, and hard CC. Is your flashy LCS Zed "outplay" going to work? No. Nasus is going to give you the cane and you'll die.

Ashe, however, should look at Nasus has a big, lumbering, sack of gold.

SkyblazeHydraX31 votes

That's all we'll and good. But it's still a problem.

Zed shouldn't be trying to take on any juggernaut in a fair fight unless he's snowballed harder than full AP Nunu, and Ashe counters juggernauts as a whole- in theory at least.

But that is still a problem. There is no out playing Nasus outside champion select. Riot has said in the past matchups shouldn't be decided before gameplay even starts.

the Anarchit3cht1 votes

Alternatively, unless he is EXTREMELY good, a little bit of harassment will go a very long way to cause him to miss farm under his turret. I've literally never met anyone with this problem before apart from you so I think you need to take a step back and realize it's not the champion, its the player.

SkyblazeHydraX31 votes

What harassment, I ask you. A few toplaners might be able to poke Nasus under his tower, but what if you don't have that? What do you do then?

Drak Pinebreaker1 votes

At some point you have to concede that the champion you picked may just be a losing matchup against Nasus.

Nasus players feel the same way when they see a Teemo, Quinn, Kayle, or Trundle.

SkyblazeHydraX31 votes

That's part of the problem- Nasus wins or loses in champion select. His kit is such that there's no real outplay potential. Either you pick a counter and harass, or you don't and you're screwed.

Sneakyy XD1 votes

{quoted}

wither

Wither averages to less than a 65% slow for 5 seconds. There are plenty of other champions who get stuns that almost average to more than a 65% slow (and then factor in that slows can be applied before and after these stuns) that deal damage and have lower CDs. What are you doing against those champions that you aren't doing against Nasus?

SoundChaosDebug1 votes

I played against a Nasus as Pantheon and his Q literally fed him freely for the first half of the game, I had to recall 3-4 times before he even did once.

This guy has had free range to fuck peoples day up as long as Yi has yet riot doesn't give a single fuck.

SkyblazeHydraX31 votes

Nasus hasn't always been a problem. Honestly I think it was the change to Sheen and Iceborn Gauntlet that really threw him over the edge. Now he can rush either Iceborn Gauntlet or Frozen Heart, and both options give him 20% CDR and a significant boost to both his armor and his mana. IBG gives a big spike to his Q damage, while Frozen Heart makes it that much more difficult to duel him with its armor and aura. He lost very little from Sheen's transition from AP to mana + CDR, and instead gained a lot.

With the prevalence of Swiftness Boots making it harder to kite him and DMP mitigating his typical mobility weakness, Nasus just ultimately feels like he has very few counters besides forcing fights and frantically pushing. I want to enjoy the game, not feel like I'm on a timer before everything I did during the match becomes irrelevant.

The Brometheus1 votes

Darius Janna Ezreal Caitlyn item 3153 item 3025 item 3033 item 1305

There isn't an icon for camping him so hard the junglers tent attracts traveling merchants and becomes a permanent settlement.

He hasn't been changed because he isn't really a problem. He has really strong counters that not just shut him down, but keep him down.

SkyblazeHydraX31 votes

And if you don't pick those champions? If you end up with a champion that can't buy those items? What if the jungler can't afford to help or simply doesn't for whatever reason?

A champion should always have some form of counterplay, even in 1v1 situations. The lack of such is why champions like Akali and Talon are so binary; they're automatically on your face and if you're on your own and they're fed, you're likely dead.

Nasus has counterplay in that his ult is nigh-useless if you can manage to wait it out, and his Spirit Fire can be simply walked out of. But his Q is (under typical circumstances) an auto-attack nuke with a 2~ second cooldown and a nearly non-existent mana cost, and the counterplay of both his Spirit Fire and his ult are largely removed with a simple cast of Wither.

I don't want Nasus gutted or nerfed into nonexistence. Personally, I just don't want him to be able to win a duel because he has the same amount of farm as his opponent, and that automatically gives him a significant damage spike.

Veigar and Kindred are both squishy as all hell and can be shredded just as quickly as they shred others. Sion's abilities are telegraphed and avoidable, and the one ability that isn't can be avoided by taking aggressive action. And all three of them are vulnerable when their cooldowns are counting down, giving you an opportunity to counterattack. Nasus does not have these windows of counterplay to fight back and take him down.

I don't care if it means Nasus has to be given compensation buffs in order to maintain his viability; I just want to be able to actually play against and outplay Nasus without having to call in the whole team and allow his other four teammates to run rampant. I want there to be a sense of fairness and skill involved, not "Nasus got his farm, now there's nothing I can do".

EDIT: Correction, I actually missed the entire point of my own thread. I just want to know Riot is still looking at and working on Nasus in some shape or form. Right now that is what I want most of all.

Håppy1 votes

Everybody says that camping the doge shuts him down, but y'know what? I rarely see Nasus get camped. In fact, I rarely see him get ganked. Nasus will sit back and only walk up for a Q, thus letting the wave automatically push towards him. He'll free farm under tower, and then only push and overextend when he's got 150+ stacks, whereupon he can outduel pretty much anybody. Even 2v1.

SkyblazeHydraX31 votes

Sounds about right. Especially when you're trying to harass and bully him, s o he ends up under tower anyways.

ToolooT1 votes

hes only great against certain team comps and against low elo players who don't know how to deal with him. he's weak against a bunch of champs top and gets kited/shutdown easily by a team with CC.

He's balanced and the only way to solve what you think is a problem would be a total rework of his kit. You can't nerf him because he already struggles early.

SkyblazeHydraX31 votes

What I think is a problem may not be what Riot thinks is a problem, this is true.

That's why I want to hear more information about these "stat bindings" Riot mentioned. Y'see, I'm one of those few people who has actual faith in Riot and the idea they know what they're doing. Just a bit of redtext saying Nasus is being looked at would be quite a comfort.

Riot DID say that they wouldn't make Nasus as he is if they made him these days, but I don't think he'll get a full rework. I don't expect him to. I just wanna know Riot has something planned for him.

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