There are so many issues with League, I am losing hope they ll ever get addressed LONG POST has TLDR

Poske··8 votes·892 views

This is my take on how to fix the biggest GAMEPLAY issues in league with just 1 patch.

This thread is more so here to inspire Riot or point out stuff which can be done better or havent been considered. Sort of what I would do if I were a one pulling the strings in 1 Mega Patch.

List of issues / stuff which can be improved I would target: Supports arent fun enough, crit is unhealthy Rng, AD carries do to much damage, minionblock is annoying, AP itemization makes me cry, Melee champions are nothing more then Pawns in a chess game, games are to onesided due to snowball, there is bunch of unhealthy Macro stuff, there are boring parts of a game which can be reduced. Op items make tankiness / healing pointless.

**TLDR TLDR CTRL + F and scroll below Gold letters for in detail but this is TLDR TLDR **

#Support role

  • Most autofilled role. They have fair impact but it is the most boring role for majority.
  • I would allow everyone to interact with allied minions but mostly supports would due to some specifics.
  • So mostly in laning phase support would interact with allied minion waves for diff effects.

#Reworking minion waves.

GENERAL STUFF

  • They would do more damage and punish poke more. Minions used to do more damage in a past it was better.
  • There is 1 Minion with pernament focus even if champs AAs him. Kill him or he wont stop.
  • 2 long ranged (550) Minions who Aggro even from Abilities. #Ability poke shouldnt be so free in 2k18.
  • there would be a medium ranged minion which does AOE damage. Makes wavecontrol more interesting.

#Minion Block rework

  • When 2+ minions get close they create a 150x20 Wall (minion block) with their shields. more relevant on melee minions.
  • Bumping minions breaks a minion block easier with higher MASS (Cho),
  • Minion formation is spaced out while they are chasing / attacking minions, they get close only when attacking champs.
  • First minion wave can again be blocked, Use it to set up strategy in advance. Of course we make sure it wont be unhealty.

#Interacting with allied minions Features:

  • Default leftclick (normal cast for abilities has priority), Interacting range Varries 300-550 range depending on minion.
  • You cant interact with an allied wave up until it colides/if you kill enemy minions + 6/7sec. (To prevent non supp abuse).
  • So how would supports have fun? click a rambo minion (1 per wave) to deny him (low hp) he sets of to heal nearest tower.
  • Send a minion (2 per wave) to buy and carry you an item, It costs a bit more, as you send it enemy instantly gains its exp.
  • Stun an allied minion to shorty after gain burst of movementspeed. Universal helps both pokers/catchers, slows down a push.
  • Force a minion to create a minion block with nearest minion (Doubles both minions attackspeeed). Bumping a wall defuses it.
  • Everything is once per minion. You ll probably see all abuse cases taken care of if you read it in detail

#Helping melee champs

  • There is a high damage melee anti poke minion with pernament focus, there are 2 anti poke minions who respond to ability poke.
  • Permanent focus minion is easy to isolate and farm for melees, 2 out of 3 Ranged minions are vulnerable to melee backstabs.
  • Minion block It would be more suited for melees giving them oportunities to strike, Higher melee hitbox = less minionblock.
  • Exhaust reworked to Brand W like skillshot (can only hit one target- most precise on). Read in detail if you want to know why.
  • New Bruiser keystone allows you to rotate around target you recently autoattacked so that melees can actually dodge and teamfight in 2k18.
  • Crits would hurt less, Penetration items would penetrate less, maybe bruiser wont be forced to buy 5 tank items and MELT REGARDLESS.
  • An item which allows you to jump if you are knocked up on last champ You Auto-ed (Can be used even while airborned).
  • Toplane red side is to gankable, this is an issue due to lack of ward at top side River should be Completly symmetrical (Map change).

#AD Carries do Burst per second

  • In other words they do to much damage. Crit Dmg nerfed to 150% (200 with IE). Duskblade and Last whisper line nerfed.
  • Direct Kog Maw damage nerf. Every ADC is going down in power with LW-line/Crit/Duskblade nerfs, Kog minds those the least.
  • I do realise that every AD assassin except Kha zix is UP without duskblade other lethality items would get some power.

#Crit is still RNG based,

  • It wouldnt be with my crit itemization rework, dont worry big numbers would stil appear.
  • With crit items you would crit every 4th autoattack starting with 1st/2nd/3rd/4th depends on item/itemcombination.
  • Marskman would do less damage, but I assume Marskman ll enjoy controling/knowing when they crit.
  • Crit Formulas have 5 second combat cooldown think of mobility boots, this way you cant prep a crit (A=auto,C=Crit).
  • Items which build into Big Crit items dont give crit themself. They give bonus dmg on next auto every 30 sec.
  • Rengar jump crits equal to 200% of AD to prevent nerf, Fiora Crit scales per E level already 140/155/170/185/200%.
  • Yasuo gets bonus A,A,A,C crit formula for every crit item he has. 1crit-item A,C,A,C,A formula 2crit-items C,C,C,C,C.
  • Ashe Q gains Damage for every crit formula. Ashe will know when Her AA has strong slow, no more Zeal/Cloak spike.
  • Trynda - I dont have good easy solution sadly so rework. Given that I am not current Trynda main wont suggest stuff.
  • Gangplank knows when he ll crit? Barrel now only ignores 30% of enemy armor rather then 40%. Crit dmg is weaker anyway.

#OP items

  • Duskblade should lose some power for other lethality stuff, LW & Void Staff Break Game balance on large scale.
  • I am in no way shape or form claiming that we shouldnt have %Penetration items but not at so high %Values.
  • Same is with grevious wounds the % is to high. Reducing it to 20-25% but making it impact shields aswell.
  • Due to %Penetration changes. Mantle, Cloth and sapphire crystal nerfed they shouldnt be so good earlygame.

#AP itemization

  • Voidstaff and Nomicon are the last top tier AP item both sadly just happen to be toxic for a game due to high %.
  • Bassicly bunch of new item ideas, More ~1500 price point items added (guise is the only thing we have).
  • I dont have to convince anyone this is required. In 2k18 ap itemization is getting rework by Riot. #New AP item ideas
  • Scroll and read them if you want. Nomicon alternatives, Rabadon alternatives, Voidstaff change, unique items.

#Snowball There is healthy and unhealthy snowball. Clown fiesta atm, so here are my global changes:

  • Ambient gold reduced to 1per sec, This always ampliffied snowball. items scale with items. Supports got new way of gaining gold (denying).
  • Global tower gold reduced to 80 (from 100). Amping their tankiness/damage is strictly worse call + Riot already did both.
  • Close to turret gold gain reduced 200 (from 250).
  • First tower bonus gold reduced to 150 from 300 (It never had to be at 300 to prevent laneswaps, 1vs2 lane is easier with my changes).
  • Botlane tower would be slightly tankier because of that rambo minion which can be denied (since supports are at botlane).
  • Baron global gold reduced to 200 from 300 (225 killing blow). I want it to be less rewarding due to suggested smite advantage
  • Baron lasts 20 seconds shorter, No more empovered recall-riskier call, Minions ll carry items for you rather better then backing.
  • If you autoattack baron/dragon 3 times/fiddledrain it your smite does 50% More damage to It. To make objective securing less cancerous.
  • Infernal Drake now gives 5% dmg reduction instead of more AP/AD. Scroll down Time to talk about Dragons for explanations.
  • Mountain Drake now gives 200 local gold and Global EXP(Gold at 18). The only drake which is useless when behind changed.
  • Inhibitors now give 200 local gold (up from 50). Why would you give the enemy team free waves without incentive.
  • Death timers now only scale per minute not by champion level (doesnt punish people who are ahead and carrying).
  • Death timers reduced in general, (1 per minute capped at 45) because there would be way less recalls due to minion which can carry items.
  • Destroying atleast 1 nexus tower removes the homeguard effect. Incentive for Splitpushers / partially becase of deathtimer reduction.
  • First minion wave can again be blocked. It is just an interesting way to start a game unlike invades (of course you can still invade).

I would like to note that my changes make much more sense as combination then isolated. Ctrl+F down golden keywords for in detail and reasonings.

END OF TLDR -------------------------- END OF TLDR, -------------------------- END OF TLDR

#Helping melee champs, Reworking minion waves, Minion block rework

New wave = 6 minions + ocasional siege (didnt change siege)

*Minion LARA - Medium range (350), Aoe thunder attack. Killing this minion ll really slow down enemy push since she can hit more at once.

  • Highest damage on minions, does magic damage

*2 Ranged Minions LASELGO - High range (550) + Damage (40+2 per lVL AKA the poke punishers). Vulnerable to melee backstab

  • in comparison to caster minion higher range and damage (thats the goal atleast quite sure this are bigger numbers)

*2 Melee sword minions ZUZI 3- Melee minion More gold and exp compared to others, quite tanky. They aggro even from ability poke

  • So if ability pokes you this 2 ll get mad.

*Melee minion RAMBO- Aggros champions permanently if they attack him / or their champion overlords. Again punishes poke, easy to isolate and farm out.

  • Highest armor,mr, HP, higher AA range then ZUZI 160>100

Minion formation would be: -----------Z= ZUZI, L=LASELGO, S=LARA, R=RAMBO, C - THE USUAL CANNON --L--Z-----First minion wave can again be blocked with champ hitbox. This formation is harder to block C--SR------People used to us this tactic in a past to slow down every minion except the first charger. --L--Z-----In doing so you could create a freeze/ make enemy lose 1 minion while they are helping blue. -----------Rambo minion is the tankiest, if you manage to help him lead a charge you can create a slow push.

Minion wave would be a bit wider (Body blocking first wave would be slightly harder) Blocking minions specially first minute could create interesting wave setup/tactical formations Melee champs could arrange their waves easier due to bigger hitbox and ussualy more Movement speed

More fun at a start of a game Does anyone like those cheese invades/scountings where you arent doing anything but have to be on alert... First 2 minutes of a game most players spend doing nothing thats boring...

#Minion block rework, Helping melee champs

  • Minion block is annoying mechanic in league if we can even call it mechanic, its rather a nuisance. So here is a rework suggestion
  • if there are 2+ minions near eachother their shields create a wall/block (insert visual, minions shields combine)
  • If you bump a block/wall created by 2+ minions it breaks. Easier,faster with champion which have higher hitbox.
  • An example: Teemo starts poking irelia. 2 ZUZI minions aggro teemo.
  • So a Teemo suddendly cant chase because 2 really Rioty minions (the puns xd) rush and wall up infront of him
  • Or in a case the minions rush behind him his escape plan ll get complicated if ire decides to strike
  • if minions are moving / atacking enemy minions they are spaced out. Important once you start thinking in depth

Obviously minions dont stop their typical actions like autoattacking just because their shields wall up.

As far as minion wall dimensions. I suggest like 150 range long 20 range thicc Some crazy Bard, Poppy, Vayne interactions are obvious, they can extend jumps to

#Support role

Support role is the least fun role. their impact is good not arguing that. Most of autofills are on support role by far however

So we need something which would attract support players. I suggest giving them a way to interact with their own minions Other roles get great joy from interacting with enemy minions, I think supports should get that from allied minions

Generaly fun scales the more you interact with game. Champions who requires lots of clicking are generaly really fun/popular. Champions who require lots of mental APM are also really fun

Supports do ocassionaly help carries Farm/Push or farm themself but eh still not enough for moajority of us. Targon,Spellthief,Coin did improve Support interaction but it still kept being most boring role for majority.

I am certain that my suggestion is better then what Riot is curently doing.

With Riot pathetic attempts to make support role more fun Riot fked up some serious stuff. Global Gold per second (Ambient gold) is to high because of supports. Items scale with items (entire adc itemization)

*They actually think they can fix support gold income with 1 gold generating item. They didnt find solution for that in what 7 years

If that gold generating item ever starts doing its job it is going to get abused in other roles. If they ever make insane support items like redemption/ardent/bulwark. Other roles like tanks ll get those items before supports since they have gold.

All 3 items were broken in other lanes at 1 point. Frostqueen Brand mid / malzahar mid. Targon hypercarries. Coin gankgplank and whoever uses it All because Riot is forced to put Support scalling / influence in 1 line of gold gen items

If this new sighstone support changes Riot planned go through. Expect Lee sin building it and becoming most insane warder. This is just a prediction

With gold gen masteries/runes gone. It is extremly transperent that the trio gold gen items cannot carry support scalling weight without getting abused by gangplank and whatnot The trio gold items had struggle carrying support role, new season rune rework even gave them extra weight. Also reworking Masteries every Preseason is getting reppetetive

1 Riot way of making sure Midlaners dont abuse ardent was by not making any other Mage item give mana regen (mana instead). So that Athene doesnt suddendly give 100 ap by itself for Lux mid while she builds nomicon and ardent. That one was clever

#interacting with allied minions, Reworking minion waves, Support role

Left Click any of this minions from 300-500 (Varies per minion, range for a different effect) Cast time standardly is 0.2 seconds You cannot interact with allied minion waves up until 6/7 seconds has passed (insert visual) since they collided. Those who farm also have to wait 6/7 seconds We want supports to interact with waves Not those insane tempo champions like Yasuo

  1. Send a minion (Melee minion Zuzi,2 per wave) towards your base to buy and bring you an item. You have to pay extra 25g (more gold if its consumable). Some balance notes:
  • Enemy instantly gains its experience. (so after you click on him 1 second later the enemy gains its experience and minion starts heading to base).
  • Enemy can kill a minion before it even reaches a base in which case they just potentionaly got 2x experience of 1 minion XD (yes it is risky as fk).
  • Minion stops moving if you are dead as you dont exist till you exist (Wait wut o.o), They drink coffee in meantime.
  • Once minion hands you an item (reaches your champ hitbox) he goes to a closest lane you know typical minion behaviour.
  • It takes 1 second for a minion to recieve an item in base, 1 second for him to hand it over, 1 second for him to start walking towards base.
  • They carry 1 Item at time. DO U EVEN LIFT BRUH (yes even just 1 potion). They could refill 1 stack to refillable/Corrupting if those become absolet.
  • You cant order the same minion twice, Yeah just go find his brother / sister / apache.
  • If enemy kills a minion as he is carrying an item. well you dont get an item, 80% of its value refounded to you (might require diff value).
  • Minion speed is typical. Dont make poor minions chase you everywhere it can be costly if they die as seen above.
  • After 20 minutes in game. You no longer have to wait for minion wave collision + 6/7 seconds in order to interact with him.

So you pay 3800 + 25 FEE for IE. Random proxy singed kills a minion carrying IE. you get 80% of 3800 gold back. You would lose out on 760 gold + 25 FEE you lost earlier XD So maybe mini singed nerf in advance given that it buffs his proxy. Granted singed ll also struggle reaching his own currier minion.

There is one transperent issue this ll cause. Lethality assasssins sending minion constantly to get those longswords since everything builds out of longsword.

Now I assume that probably wouldnt be OK, mostlikely smart change would be to increase the reward of getting BF/Pickaxe apply the same to Mage and tank itemization. Example: Curently getting BF is 107% efficient getting NLR is 104% efficient. Make sure those are somewhere at 120%.

Snowball - this minion would have insane benefits for healthy & unhealthy snowball.

  • This minion increases game tempo/snowball since there would less recalls and walking to lane if ahead - good for individual carrying.
  • Because of the above change DEATH TIMERS are reduced to (1-45) 1 per minute (max being 45) - no longer scales with champion levels at all.
  • Since it doesnt scale with levels you ll no longer be punished hard for dying while you are individually carrying which is good.
  • Walking to lane is boring, Being dead is boring, Recalling is boring - this minion increases Fun and reduces boring stuff.
  • Additionally towers are now worth less gold as already mentioned. Reduces Snowball massively.
  • Supports ll get their gold gen items sooner since they are always free to interact with minions since as they dont farm.

Increasing tower damage/tankiness is bad as far as melee champions go because they want the map to be opened asap. So towers give less gold.

As far as how this minion influences baron: EMPO baron recall removed - This makes Baron call riskier which is good. Additionally it gives 100 less global gold. Baron now also lasts 20 seconds shorter. (Because you dont have to back) - Send Zuzi to bring you an item.

I would make Baron more risky and less rewardfull because I would deal with the issue OF 50/50 Smite annoyance Entire games being decided on whos jungler manages to 50/50 just feel extremly bad

If a smite wielder Autoattacks/ Dragon/baron 3 times / Fiddledrains for 2 seconds His smite does 50% damage

We are going from 50/50 to like 80/20 in favor of team who started it So yeah the extra smite damage does Encouarage more Baron Calls. Other Baron changes discourage it So if your team secures a baron but 3-4 people die that wouldnt be worth for them anymore

Why? Well Less global gold, Shorter baron duration, No Empo recall - aka no easy fast escape = loss of tempo If the above is not enough (I do think it is) increase baron Tankiness - posibility for future patches

Less Random out of nowhere kha zix/Rengar jumps in from stealth in baron pit and smite steals a baron Less Uncatchable lee sin gets inside baron pit and smites. Less Random lux/Jinx 1k damage ultimate outsmites your jungler steals

More punishing actually having enemy team run over your team which started and managed to secure baron Maximun gold swing possible reduced, If your team kills entire enemy team which is doing baron and steals it

This is good no shotcall should ever decide 10k gold. It could still easly decide like 8k

What about Kalista rend / Nunu in general?

There wouldnt be a point in picking Nunu, but Nunu needs a rework anyway. Kalista loses a strenght Good people say she is generalist ADC.

#interacting with allied minions, Reworking minion waves, Support role - in case you got lost scrolling -

  1. Deny a melee minion Rambo (1 per wave) so that it zooms and heals a nearest tower and enemy doesnt get gold / potentionaly more Balance notes:
  • You kill an allied minion his soul zooms to your nearest tower and increase its maximun hp by 50.
  • Keep in mind this is the one minion which gets aggroed by champion attacks, enemy can pull him. So good Luck.
  • Minion must be at 25% HP to be denied (Progressively Scales to 50% as the game lasts longer).
  • If you deny after 5 minutes into a game enemies lose experience to if they are nearby.
  • If you deny after 10 minutes you gain experience on top of all the above.
  • if you deny after 15 minutes you gain its gold on top of all the above.
  • If you are level 18 since you cant gain exp anymore you get double the gold for denying.
  • In case you are unsure about telling your own loyal minions to sacrfice themself, THINK of it the ivern way.
  • The whole thing where it increases tower HP reduces snowball (ignores Azir tower).
  • Interaction range 550 range (300 is to lil for this one) Keep in mind every champ interacts from same range.

#Snowball - this minion also has some benefits to healthy & unhealthy snowball

  • Ambient gold reduced to 1 per second from 2 per second.
  • Why the above? Items scale with items which can make snowball overbearing.

Back in a days Ambient gold was really important for supports. but they would have more ways of gaining gold Due to that we can finally lower this snowball enchanter Ambient gold gain

  1. Left clicking Minion LARA - you stun her for 2 seconds and 1 second after gain 50 movementspeed for 2 seconds. Balance notes:
  • since she is the main pusher (the stun part) could slow down the push, set a freeze.
  • there is no cast time on this one, But it gives you movement speed 1 seconds later (counterplay purposes).
  • Its universal. The speed ll help both pokers and catchers. 300 leftclick range on this one
  • Why does this one not have a cast time? Because it is counter productive.. (Think galio Old E)
  • Keep in mind 1 LARA per wave. So 1 potentional LARA interaction per wave
  1. Left clicking Ranged minion laselgo sets him in a wall formation with a nearest allied minion. Balance notes:
  • Both minions gain 2X attackspeed to prevent a forced freeze (minion ll walk for a while instead of AA)
  • He basicly walks to a closest minion (500 range) and creates a minion block wall
  • Suggested wall stats are 150 range long 20 range thicc. Bumping a wall breaks it (easier on big champs)
  • Just because minions formed a wall doesnt mean that they dont autoattack and do typical stuff
  • Interaction Range well perhaps 400 (for all champs the same range of course)

Also we could use old speed up Dominion animations for interacting with allied minion waves Since Riot does want $$$$ we could definetly have some minions change their appearance to something cute Of course only once once you interact with those minions. It would cost RP easy $$$$$$$

Reworking minion waves

  • Main goals and benefits of the above changes
  • Makes laning phase, waveclear and wavecontrol more interesting
  • There would be higher desparity between a good and a bad support. Good for individual carrying via supports
  • Support would have more fun (atleast I hope so) and skill expression (higher imput per second)
  • Other roles wouldnt interact with allied wave alot (You have to wait if you farm/ up until minion collision +6/7 sec)
  • Minion block would be a serious and fun mechanic rather then nuisance
  • Ranged champions would have harder time bullying due to more hostile minions, potentional minion block
  • You could strategicly in many ways even minion block champions on purpose
  • Reduced death timers because of ZUZU (item currier) minions. Less walking to lane, less recalls
  • Empo baron recall removed because of ZUZU, minute 20+ there are no restrictions when you can interact with them
  • A bit less gold for carries due to ocasional minion being denied
  • A bit tankier towers because when you deny a minion a minion increases its max hp by flat number
  • Speed granter minion LARA, and minion block creater LASELGO would create more action

I hope everything being coded as a minion doesnt prevent Riot from reworking minion waves. It probably does though since they didnt rework minion waves yet...

#AD Carries do Burst per second, Crit is still RNG based - time to change that.

AD carries do have the highest influence on the game outcome. Each player/role should have 20% influence on the game outcome. ADC role definetly has more.

And not the word carry in AD carry doesnt mean that they should have more then 20%. Why do you think Riot forced the whole ""Marksman"" thingy.

This is where we would nerf marksman. Some reasonings arent explained here

*Carries would crit for less damage overall. You ll know when your next auto crits though *last whisper and the items it builds into nerfed specificly to be less useful against armor *Lower aimbient gold and Tower gold, Inhibitors and Ground drake give local gold. *Sometimes they would have a rambo minion denied by enemy support. Dont freak out its one per wave and you can pull him by attacking him.

Granted less gold slows down a game so Marskman dont freak out you like slow games.

Action wise there will be more action with my changes. I dare you to find a suggestion which reduces action Fast paced games are fun. Fast paced doesnt mean that an avg game would last 20 minutes

Lots of people who want shorter games actually want fast paced games Key is to have fast paced long game. Which is what league used to be at its best patches

  • Kog maw directly nerfed as he doesnt care about weaker crits/LW. Just drop his damage a bit

CRITICAL STRIKE REWORK??

Goals

  • Remove RNG
  • Turn Crit into something more fitting for an ESPORT
  • Reduce the BPS (burst per second) to DPS
  • Crit should still feel like Crit (SO NO WE ARE NOT CHANGING IT TO %DMG INCREASE)

How to achieve that goal Crit damage reduced to 150% (IE puts it at 200%). This is a hands down the best spot to nerf, it ll get more clear.

General idea on how crit items would look like. Every 4th auto crits starting with first/second/third/4th attack We are replacing crit chance with that from big items

**Additionaly there is 5 second combat cooldown. The same as mobility boots (so you cant prep crit for a fight)

Examples: (`````````````is here to reduce wall of text)

Infinity Edge```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````Essence reaver (30% CDR maximun)
Puts crit at 200% of AD`````````````````````````````````````````````` Every 4th attack you crit starting with third. Every 4th attack you crit starting with second.``````````````A,A,C,A,A,A,C,A,A,A,C A,C,A,A,A,C,A,A,A,C````````````````````````````````````````````````````You ll know when you ll get mana not that it matters C=Crit````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` Reaver is also quite OP - but his users are undeperforming (no extra nerfs) A=Normal Auto`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````If you get an item which crits every 4th Auto + 15% CDR (Max 30%)

Phantom dancer````````````````````````````````````````````````````````Hurricane Every 4th attack you crit starting with fourt`````````````````` Every 4th attack you crit starting with third. A,A,A,C,A,A,A,C,A,A,A,C``````````````````````````````````````````````A,A,A,C,A,A,A,C

Rapid Firecannon```````````````````````````````````````````````````````Zeal - All stats the same except crit chance replaced with below Every 4th attack you crit starting with first.````````````````````Every 30 seconds your autoattack does 50-125 (1-18) bonus physical damage C,A,A,A,C,A,A,A,C,A,A,A,C````````````````````````````````````````````Builds out of dagger + 400G New item called Spark

Spark does 50 damage on next auto every 30 seconds.

Or we can put every 4th A,A,A,C formula on zeal. Or it can proc every 40 seconds but each auto reduces it by 1 second. Options for zeal should be Open

Zappy Spark (1150 G)

dagger + Spark(400G) (I mentioned it above) 20% attackspeed Unique Passive HOT > autoattacks steal 6 (8 if melee) AD per hit up to 5 times - maximun 32 Unique Passive Flashy > every 20 seconds your Autoattack does 60 magic damage

Statikk shiv (2600)
Zappy spark + kircheis shard + sapphire crystall + 250 gold

dagger + Spark(400G) (I mentioned it above) 20% attackspeed Unique Passive HOT > autoattacks steal 6 (8 if melee) AD per hit up to 5 times - maximun 32 Unique Passive Flashy > every 20 seconds your Autoattack does 60 magic damage

50% Attackspeed 250 Health 5% movement speed Unique passive Hot > autoattacks steal 6 (8 if melee) AD per hit up to 5 times (max for ranged 30) Moving and attacking generates Energize stacks, up to 100. Typical

Unique shiv lightning AT stacks 100 Your next basic attack does 150-250 (Magic damage) + 10% of enemy max hp in magic damage. It cannot crit.

Why did I suggest such massive changes to SHIV. Well you see Shiv is really unique because it is RNG on top of RNG. The whole thunder theme is cool so why not force it more into thunder rather then crit stuff.

Why %max hp? Last whisper ll receive a massive nerf dont worry tanks, you ll be way better off.

How does crit formula work if you buy multiple Crit items? Example

Reaver + PD A,C,A,A,C,A,A,A,C +A,A,C,A,A,C,A,A,C

= A,C,A,C,A,C,A,C,A,C With 25% crit chance roughly you are critting 1/4 of time which we can translate to every 4th not knowing when the first one ll occur

With 2 crit items you are criting every second auto. You start with Auto or Crit depending on how fast your crit items are What if 1 item is fast while the other is just as slow? Slow one WINS

Hurricane + Reaver - A,C,A,C,A,C (I mean both are slow..) Reaver + Ie - A,C,A,C,A,C (Reaver is as slow as the Ie is fast, in even cases Auto starts first) Cannon with IE C,A,C,A,C,A,C (Obviously cannon canot be faster while Ie is quite fast ) PD + RFC - C,A,C,A,C,A (fastest with almost the slowest, fastest wins) Hurricane + RFC A,C,A,C,A,C,A (fastest with the slowest, auto starts first) Hurricane + PD A,C,A,C,A,C,A,C

What about 3 item crit combinations?

A,A,A,C 0001 A,A,C,A
A,A,A,C 0001 A,A,C,A A,A,A,C 0001 A,A,C,A 0111

RFC+Reaver+PD Obviously 3/4 autos should be crits Exception triple Pd crit for example C,A,A,A 1000 A,A,C,A 0010 A,A,C,A + 0010+ A,A,C,A + 0010 A,A,C,A + 0010+ A,A,C,A + 0010 =C,A,C,C =1011 =0111

Binary system ALIKE 1+0=Crit 0+0=No crit 1+1=Crit + it carries value 1 to right (NOT LEFT) 1+1+1=Crit it carries 1 value right, 1 value left (if there is nowhere to carry it carries in other direction) so 0001+0001+0001 ends with 0111 aka A,C,C,C and 1000+1000+1000 ends with 1110 aka C,C,C,A (but you wont build 3 RFC anyway)

What about crit champions? Yasuo, Ashe, Garen, Fiora, Rengar, Trynda, Gangplank

It is written above in TLDR Kinda shocked I found so simple solution for Yasuo. It came on the fly

I dont think I am worthy as far as trynda rework suggestions Go. Last time I mained trynda it was season 1/2.

#helping melee champs - with new items, keystone, and exhaust changes

Zappy spark + mantle + cloth armor + 700 gold = FireProof Pants (2600 G) (League has 0 pants items)

Stats

  • 30 armor
  • 20 magic ressist
  • 30% Attackspeed
  • Your autoattacks steal 6 Mr,Armor,AD (8 if melee) stacking up to 5 times - Max 32 if melee from 1 target, Max 30 for ranged from all targets teoreticly you could gain alot of stats (160 max) if you constantly swap targets as melee (How the fk you ll do that is beyond me however) So tehnicly with hurricane and this you could debuff bunch of enemies. But Ranged ll never gain more then 30 of each stat

It decays as fast as Wits End so 5 seconds.

Unique passive Flashy > every 4th (3rd if melee) autoattack does 70 magic dmg and heals you by 60 Unique active Zoom blink to an enemy which has its AP/AD/armor/magic ressist reduced by this item or abilities (range 700)

Obvious prevention of blackcleaver abuse is obvious...

Lots of champions can reduce armor. J4, Renekton, Trundle, Kayle, Kog to name a few. Some can reduce armor like trynda and trundle.

New Keystone - Angle bender -

  • If you Auto champions you bassicly get 200 range version of katarina E against that champion.
  • Cdr against same champion 5 sec. No CD normaly.
  • You must dash to a side of a champion. (Its primary a dodging keystone not sticking keystone).
  • Passive every time a skillshot passes near your champion gain bonus movementspeed for 5 seconds stacking up to 5 times.
  • this tehnicly never teleports you in the same chase line since you port to enemy champion side - (helps you dodge).

I mean its obvious bruisers need more keystone options

But why would you suggest such thing? Melee champions struggle dodging Morgana Q/ Ezreal Q type of abilities. Something like karthus Q / Brand W isnt a problem. Almost every champion has Ezreal Q type of skillshot. This is one of the reasons none overloaded melee champions cant teamfight

I know this sounds wierd but League suffered rectilinear skillshot creep. Yes it is not transperent issue This keystone would help brusiers teamfight and dodge such skillshots at higher rate

Now exhaust is even worse because it is targeted. Same as LULU W - Rework both to singletarted Circle skillshots

Exhaust never keeps twitch and ranged overlords in check. Yet it significantly reduces viability of melee champions.

So this is why exhaust is reworked to be a skillshot alike Brand W - Can only hit 1 target - closest to center. I think it is clear now Why I suggested brand W like skillshot rather then ezreal Q like skillshot.

An item which allows us to jump on a last champion we autoattacked while we are knocked (can also be used briefly 1 second after cc ends) *This counts knockbacks, pulls, knockups just like yasuo ultimate.

What why would you suggest this? BECAUSE TENACITY IS FKING USELESS. Good reason enough

I dont really care what such item should give. But here is example

Adaptive 30 AD/AP 30 armor 30 mr 300 health Unique active Knock Knock who is there. Knocked up who, Joke is on you.

Op items

DUSKBLADE - Duskblade is ridicilus, Idk what else to say, Is there a single player not aware of this? What to do > nerf duskblade but buff other lethality items. We are not trying to nerf AD assassins as a whole but duskblade is FKING ridicilus.

Crit itemization as an item combination at this power and RNG is extremly unhealthy. I have rework above

Last whisper 35% is to much. ignoring 35% of a tank itemization is to much, specially because defense scales bad with defense

Last whisper should be nerfed to 20% bonus physical penetration. The items it builds to should have 25% And we would increase its AD or add new stats to it

Essentially Last whisper should specificly be nerfed against tanks / anyone who builds tanky while it shouldnt feel worse against the rest

Yes lastwhisper is a tank buster item but it is way to good at what it is doing Proof Tanks melt as fast as bruisers (Once tanks stop melting as fast as bruiser then we can nerf their damage)

Voidstaff nerfed to 20/25% magical penetration (keep in mind there is no word bonus) Dont worry Voidstaff wont feel useles however I have a rework for it in AP itemization

Now I would like to add. If Armor and MR ll be allowed not to be worthless mid - lategame Then they shouldnt be so efficient early game

Null magic mantle and cloth armor nerfed by 2 perhaps even by 3

Keep in mind there is massive difference between 20 and 22 armor/mr While there is no difference between 222 and 220 armor/mr

%Grevious wounds is another stat which shouldnt be at so high % I would like it to effect shields so it ll effect them. Nerfed to 25%

Bramble loses 5 armor (This item needs a direct nerf)

AP Itemization Goal: Increase diversity, nerf items which are toxic for a game

VOIDSTAFF - the name is fitting because this is what a tank feels like when they face anything with voidstaff, THEY FEEL a void and empty Check high elo. People consistently build this as their 2nd item. an item which is supposed to be a lategame answer to tanks XD.

I suggest 20% magic penetration (not 25% because it also works against base MR)

Voidstaff and Lastwhisper are to insane against defense itemization. Idk how else to put it, I do realise this is not the most transperent issue

Riot has been injecting %DMG reduction in kits (latest xin zhao,galio,warwick) because they know defense itemization is noob bait so if you are wondering why tanks arent completly irelevant > %dmg reduction abilities, %dmg reduction item abusers such as (j4,cho)

-Also recently there was whole Sejuani/Rammus/leona aftershock you dont have to tank if they die thingy. Sejuani and leona werent top tier because they were tanky oh no it was the damaage. I honestly dont see the all fuss with rammus. He is number 1 pick in full ad comps so high winrate is expected. Last time Rammus was strong was in season 1. HE IS SNAIL WITHOUT A HOUSE COMPARED TO THAT TIME

-Orn is a new champ so Riot got Bamboolzed with data and buffed a strong champion.

Every other viable tank has % damage reduction. Some are indirect %damage reduction like maokai W however

From my perspective. Damage isnt to high, Defense is to irelevant except for %dmg reduction. We cant inject %dmg reduction in everything Clear solution to that is nerfing LW/VOID.

#Snowball, Helping melee champs Time to talk about Dragons

Why would I rework them that way (Mentioned above in TLDR)

Infernal drake is OP. Everyone knows this I would make it give 5 %dmg reduction.

Why dmg reduction above everything? Because current infernal drake makes melee champions unplayable due to how fast they melt once enemy team has it If thats what %dmg gain does then why not do the opposite. But melees ll benefit the most

How do melees suffer from current infernal the most while they would benefit the most from the new one?

Reasoning is simple: melee champions consistently take more damage as they are center of fire constantly

-Air drake is fine. Underatted - some people dont read patch notes. -Ocean drake might be to efficient against poke. Perhaps lyandri should last longer so that ocean kicks in later -Ground drake is the worst of all. It noob baits even high elo/Pro players.

Air drake Helps your engage, rotations and makes you harder to get engaged on. Infernal drake obviously gives you raw power. It would still do that with my rework. Ocean drake makes sure you are healthy full of mana before teamfights.

Ground drake only helps if you won a teamfight

BBBBBUTTT you can take baron 2 seconds faster. Just go ahead and spend 30 seconds and vision early game Completly worth it KAPPA. NOW We can take baron 2 sec faster!!! High elo tip dont ever overhype this drake.

Worst of all. Infernal/herald/baron already help you do damage to towers. Air drake helps you reach them faster. Ocean helps sieges to...

This is why new Ground drake would give bunch of global Experience and nice local gold. We shouldnt have the Rng 1/4 chance to enter a game with a drake which does nothing when behind.

#New AP item Ideas. We already know riot is planing to rework ap itemization

  • Ap Items have 3 stats to work with Mana,AP,CDR (Mana regen is a support stat)
  • We should have 2 AP / armor options and 2 AP / Mr options
  • Rabadon shouldnt be trash and it needs alternatives (I ll suggest 2)
  • We should have 2 more alternatives to nomicon (grevious part being unique to nomicon)
  • Rest should be active/unique focused

We cant work out miracles with just 3 stats. And no I dont want more Mage stats

FEEL FREE TO POST YOUR IDEAS..

A good Spellwamp item - Note nerf/hotfix vlad if nessesarry specially given grevious changes

We need more nomicon alternatives. Mana, AP, CDR items. All should cost about the same or same

  1. Typical Morello with weaker grevious (but effects shields)
  2. 80 AP 20% 400 mana CDR Twin shadow active item (Spooky ghosts)
  3. 80 AP reduces mana cost and cooldown by flat number (30 less mana 1 sec) - Minimal CD 0.25 Sec

You would typicaly build one of these on each mage Whether you want grevious,spooky ghost, or non percentage cdr/manacost removal

Example. Cassiopeia doesnt care about %CDR But putting her E at 0.25 seconds does sound attractive?

Or karthus having his Q at 0.25 sec. But he kinda wants %cdr for his ultimate? Maybe spooky ghost so he can force stuff? Hit q easier?

We need more Massive AP items also Rab sort of revert

Rabadon builds out NLR+NLR + 500 gold (3k total)
130 AP + 20% more AP. Yay no longer avkward buildpath

Arcane Ring NLR+blasting wand 1250+850+900 gold (3k total)

110 AP Your abilities which do magic damage do 10% more damage

Sorceress wand Builds out of NLR + Revolver 1250 + 1050 + 600 gold = 2900 Gold

100 AP Revolver passive but with 60 more damage (Varies per level). 210 damage level 18.

Unique passive Pernamently Add ap ratio and base damage to your champion weakest damaging ability except ultimate (System ll compare max level base damage and Ratios, aswell as duration)

+0.3 AP ratio + 150 base damage Annie E, Syndra E, Anivia Q, Aurelion W, Le blanc W, Cass Q, Karthus IDK, Taliyah W, Viktor E etc, Swain W Vlad W, Malzahar W, Rumble E, Ahri Q (there you go Ahris) etc

Anyway this item would probably require some balance work. Some abilities dont deserve more damage Riot could change champion ability numbers in a way where another ability gets Sorceress Wand passive

So you would have to ask yourself playing a mage Are my ratios really good? If so rabadon is the best. Are my ratios really bad? if so arcane ring is the best Do I want to specificly buff the damage of my "weakest" ability? Wand ll show you da wae

On a lot of champions it is debatable what they want. So depending on price points you back with you would get diff stuff

Voidstaff

Blasting wand + blasting wand 850+850+600 = 2200 gold

100 AP +20% Magic penetration More accessible but less Pen keep in mind Void also reduces base MR. Potentional buff to 25% if needed.

THE END

21 Comments

x Wyvern x2 votes

Too much Dota I see here.

I have to say, I don't like the minion changes, except for denying.

I agree overall with what you want to change but not how it ends up, i dont think we want a copy of dota + unspected minion aggro and behaviour.

Poske1 votes

Hm did you read it in detail? The whole how supports would interact with minions? Wouldnt you like to do more stuff in lane if you are support? Would you like perhaps diff effects if you like the denying one tied to rambo minion

I did write rules nothing would be unexpected. you would learn how minions work in few games.

There is 1 Rambo minion who ll always try to focus champions. This is the one which can be denied. So isolate him and farm him out. Lots of counterplay but you already like this

There are 2 ranged minions who ll focus you if you ability poke enemy champion

The above minions make a life easier for melee champions. The overal higher minion damage and range on those 2 minions helps to League used to have stronger minions which made life easier for melees first few levels. Thats what I am trying to do with some spice

I mean nowdays Ranged champions bully you even at level 1 thats how irelevant minion poke is. anyone watched that jayce vs mao lcs game?

There is 1 medium ranged minion who does AOE damage and can be stuned for 1 second later ms boost Lots of options you can focus him first which ll help you push a wave since he is the minion with highest damage due to AOE You can stun the said minion to attempt a freeze

You could minionblock (ussualy) first wave in attempt to setup a wave where enemy team cant do the above strategies as effectivly.

Does that sound so terrible? I though it would sound interesting and strategic

I did say you really wouldnt be able to accidently aggro minion while walking by bumping takes slightly more effort. I would like to note now that I think about it specificly last sentence is not 100% nessesarry change XD as I guess it doesnt benefit my goals potentionaly.

Without currier minion. We cant do lots of the stuff I suggested ); . Avkward baron recall would have to stay, Higher death timers to, there would be more walking to lanes rather then action Etc. I felt like he had highest benefits to what I am trying to accomplish

Got only 20 hours in dota

xelaker2 votes

Riot prob won't read this and if they do, they don't care about the boards anyways.

That being said, lots of agrees and lots of disagrees here man.

Poske1 votes

If you try to understand it as one global change it makes more sense

Phelas1 votes

2 times the charm eh [sg-ahri-2]

Poske1 votes

Might try even more hope it is not annoying

If I decide to make some stuff look clearer

HalcyonDweller1 votes

It's always nice to see really deeply thought out posts that analyze issues, but you can't just throw so much stuff into one post, it makes it too hard to dissect and react to each part of it.

Find ways to split your ideas out into separate posts so that each idea can be evaluated, reacted to and voted on separately.

Poske1 votes

I dont see a way sadly. I can only make TLDR efficient enough not to go in detail..

HalcyonDweller1 votes

it's quite doable. People post individual concepts all the time.

Posting such an extensive list of changes is unlikely to have an impact anyways, because even if you've come up with a perfect set of changes, Riot is not going to read through all of it to get an understanding of it. They usually just read a few ideas, get the gist of them, and then discuss those amongst themselves to consider implementing. An essay that seems to never end will lose their attention long before it could get to it's point.

Åeolus1 votes

I've been having the most fun playing support I've ever had in the whole year I've started maining it. The Janna rework was perfect. I'll admit I initially disliked it as first but with the new rune changes she's amazing now. You actually get punished for playing passively and only pressing E. To play her well, you need to put 3-4 points into W early and be aggressive. I've been single-handedly winning my lane for my adcs by just poking the enemy adc/support so much.

Poske1 votes

I had people raging yesterday due to 2 different jannas XD

My anti knockback yohooo jump on enemy item would definetly make her healthy

She is really unfair vs divers atm

Whisper871 votes

So there are some issues with what you have going on here that affect the basic fundamentals of the game, but let me start with the positives.

  1. I like your idea about slowing passive gold increase. It's a large enough amount to matter, but a small enough amount that it doesn't matter too much to scaling champions. The small bit of extra gold is more impactful earlier, getting assassins and other low econ damage champs to their power spikes earlier, while champions who rely on synergizing items like tanks and adcs are waiting for their multi-item spike. Once it becomes late enough in the game for this gold amount to impact them, they are already able to flash farm quite quickly anyways. This is the kind of non-skill based snowball that is unhealthy for the game.

  2. Rounding out the dragons is a great idea. They are kind of all over place with value. My thoughts on them are: Infernal - pretty good most all the time, not amazing until late game or you get a second one. Mountain - really good when ahead or even, very boom or bust when behind. Seems to snowball games but only good for comebacks when you already made a big play. Ocean - really good if you get it early in lane phase, or if one of the two teams is playing a poke/siege comp, otherwise just meh. Cloud - just ok most of the time, only noticeably impactful if you have at least one split pusher on your team. --Part of the idea behind changing up drakes was to make them more interesting and to have teams play around objectives differently. So like if you are playing a pure early game snowball comp you'd probably gladly take tower firstblood top in exchange for even Infernal drake. But there should never be a situation where a drake feels completely useless. Like Infernal and Mountain feel pretty strong the majority of the time, where as Cloud and Ocean are very composition and timing specific. Maybe rework Cloud and Ocean so they are a bit more consistently good? This could be an overhaul in how they work or just buffing values.

Now let's get to the problems:

  1. Minion changes: While these sound interesting, it's a bit too Dota. Things like pulling creep waves off to the side and having irregular aggro patterns works in Dota because the game takes longer to close. Map is larger, early game leads don't translate as often, and breaking the base is MUCH harder. So you can get away with this kind of stuff since it's impact is somewhat limited. In LOL this kind of stuff can easily be gamebreaking. I do understand the desire to slow snowball, but that needs to be skill based stuff. Like my idea is providing catchup XP on kills based on the average level in the game. That way you have to DO something to close that gap, not just click a creep to slow snowball down. Think of it like old Fortification summoner, it was just a brainless turtle button. Windows to cut the disparity is what we need, my other idea is better trade options on the top half of the map when bottom gets ran on with 4 people for a tower, drake, and usually at least 1 kill all at once. That way if your jungle and mid are quick enough, they can recognize what's going on bottom half and take something in return on top, right now Herald is a bit too tough to take down to be a really good trade option.

  2. ADC Crit Items: Your ideas are problematic for 3 big reasons. ADC are designed to pump out persistent melt damage, they are designed to scale better than everything else in terms of late game raw dps, and they rely on item synergies. So, the thing where you new items have a proc every 20-30 seconds makes no sense as that just makes up front damage the only kind of damage that matters. Your new Crit items also can potentially move the crit forward in the rotation. The way I see it all ADC would just make the crit come as early as possible so that when a fight starts they blast someone right away with their 30 second cooldown and Crit. Homogenizing damage is bad. The game should not just be "who can survive the burst". Extended team fights that last through many spell rotations need to remain a thing. We need champions in the game who can consistently pump out relevant damage if you don't cc or chase them. Also, ADC's need to be able to kill tanks because that is kind of their specialty. That is why burst champions should be trying to damage ADC whenever possible, only focusing down the front line when no other better options are present. Late game team fights have always been about who can either melt frontline quicker or who can kill/force back the enemy ADC.

  3. Void/Last Whisper: So here's how gameflow works. Assassins and poke/burst are strong in the early and most of the mid game, while tanks, ADC's, and scaling mages start to even things out around the tale end of the mid game and then are stronger in the late game. Something has to be able to melt tanks in the late game otherwise they will just tower dive you and tank baron while fighting you etc etc. ADCs and mages pump out high DPS, but they are glass cannons so they need space to work with. Tanks get to just run at them, limiting their space, so the idea is that if a ADC gets 3 crit items and a LW they can potentially melt a tank before they get run down. If a tank can reliably close the gap onto an ADC without dying out dying or getting very low, then ADC's become very risky and no longer a required part of every composition, or protect the ADC comps take over again. Tanks are similar to ADC's in that their items work together. You need armor or magic resist, then you need hp too. Assassins and early game bursters use high efficiency items like lethality items or morello which are well rounded, giving a large spike right away. They need to spike and have the ability to kill tanks before they become truly tanky. AP champs go Void second item because they need to kill the tanks now, before they get more hp and/or MR. In most cases for AP champs killing tanks only gets harder as the game goes on, the counter balance to that is that it get's EASIER for ADC's to kill tanks as the game goes on. Penetration items allow AP to murder tanks in the mid game and ADC to murder them late. If someone can always murder them what's the point? Well the point is that typically only that 1 of all 5 enemy champions can really harm the tank so it balances out in that the tank outscales the other damage champs.

-Penetration items keep tanks honest so they have to build both HP and resistances, otherwise high efficiency tank builds become strong and they can just bypass the early game where burst and assassins need to find a lead. This need for multiple stats prevents tanks from being OP. -ADC's need to be able to achieve high levels of crit and very persistant damage output in order to kill HP stacking tanks. This is why Zeal items need to potentially proc more than once every 30 seconds.

  1. AP items: Your ideas are interesting but the issues with the first two is that champions are balances around their base damages or scaling. In order for the base damage booster to compete it would need to significantly impact base damages. Champions with weak base damages are typically intended to be weaker in the early to mid game, shoring this up significantly could very well be game breaking. The problem with your third item is I think similar; any champion who actually wants this is designed to have a gap in their damage window. It would be only good on certain champs, and those ones who it is good on would be really strong. You'd find yourself playing champions just to abuse certain items. It's a similar situation to what I've been saying about Runes Reforged. We want to play champions, not play the items or play the runes. -I agree Rabaddons could use a more efficient build path. You don't want to straight buff it, but making it more desirable as something other than a 6th slot luxury item would be cool. Id love to see some Death Cap second or third builds.

Summary:

Your ideas are really interesting and honestly I think if you should try out Dota. It's pace and playstyle seems more suited to what you are asking for. Implementing the changes you asked for above would completely change the game. It would require basically a whole new identity. And lot's of changes to Runes, Champions, the Map, Items of all types.

Poske2 votes

I had bunch of experience with elemental dragons. You are overating mountain alot. its meh when ahead and utterly useless when behind. Ocean drake is a strongest early game drake. And air drake is immensly underated, somehow half comunity missed its buff

As a high elo player my realistic rating is. I decided to nerf infernal while making it benefit more melees. Ground is just useless and unhealthy if it ever gets buffed so I went with something different

Infernal 10/10 Ocean 7/10 Air 7/10 Ground 3/10

I didnt want to change Ocean and air except perhaps making ocean slightly worse vs poke my pro longing the lyandri dot. With my suggestions I estimate they would all be 7/10 Besides to what we could even change them to? We are probably out of posibilities + I think they are unique and balanced enough already Of course air is slightly stronger late. Ocean slightly stronger early but overall its healty

As far as elder goes. That thing always decays before anything happens though about increasing the duration but currier minion indirectly does this by a bit.

I think you are overating ground drake by alot. At most speeds up your tower taking by a second and baron by 2 seconds. Given that it is the tankiest spending 30 seconds early game + control wards while risking collapse.. for some mini tempo lategame. I mean this drake can go to 5/10 if you have Udyr/yorick in team but thats its peek.

I had so many games with 0 dragons taken because none team wanted to waste tempo on mountain...

As far as your minion thoughs

Pulling? I never suggested that. I suggested slight blocking? I am not saying we should be able to take minions to jungle with us XD. I also tried dota 20 hours not my game. This would be mainly used for first wave. Bassicly you would decide which minion wave pushes nothing to extreme.

At most if 2 players are body blocking they could create such strong freeze where if botlane for whatever reason isnt as botlane they would lose 1 minion. Nothing extreme XD. The whole support interacting with minions also really isnt extreme. Just gives supports a way to show of their skill and some windows of opportunity

Could you plz elaborate where do you see issues now that I clarified?

  1. ADC Crit Items: Your ideas are problematic for 3 big reasons.

You missunderstood this so hard gosh. Should I edit original post to avoid confusion o.o

There is 5 second combat cooldown (think of mobis). You cant prep crit unless you have firecannon. Strongest crit items like Hurricane are purposly more late with crit. I nerfed ADC damage from burst per second to damage per second like it used to be.

If you have 2 crit items. Your every second auto is crit do you think it really matters that much to a point where twitch wouldnt buy hurricane XD? Now whether you would start with crits or not depends on item/ item combination.

Firecannon is the fastest I also think it is the weakest item so thats why I made it the fastest. You seemed to think you would crit every 30 seconds on all items.** thats not the case**. I dont know what excatly you didnt understand or how did i make you think that

Zeal components dont keep the whole 50 damage passive they get crit instead

50 damage every 30 seconds on next auto is gamebreaking? What? its just 50 damage and if you auto a minion its gone it gives you windows of power . I couldnt make just crit appear on big items out of nowhere. Nowdays even zhonya/gargoyle/ga appear out of stopwatch.

Zeal items dont keep the whole 50 damage passive they get crit instead

And its component (zeal) just does slightly more damage XD. Revolver / sheen function quite similary yet do more. Now that I THINK about it perhaps this could build into Sheen Saphire + my suggested item + whatever gold left

What about accidently criting 2 times in a row with aggility cloak early game? Is that more healthy variant lul. I just cant accept the whole unhealthy thing I think those component parts would be to weak if anything. People would prefer longsword / dagger

  1. Void/Last Whisper: So here's how gameflow works. Assassins and poke/burst are strong in the early and most of the mid game, while tanks, ADC's, and scaling mages start to even things out around the tale end of the mid game and then are stronger in the late game. Something has to be able to melt tanks in the late game otherwise they will just tower dive you and tank baron while fighting you etc etc. ADCs and mages pump out high DPS, but they are glass cannons so they need space to work with. Tanks get to just run at them, limiting their space, so the idea is that if a ADC gets 3 crit items and a LW they can potentially melt a tank before they get run down. If a tank can reliably close the gap onto an ADC without dying out dying or getting very low, then ADC's become very risky and no longer a required part of every composition, or protect the ADC comps take over again. Tanks are similar to ADC's in that their items work together. You need armor or magic resist, then you need hp too. Assassins and early game bursters use high efficiency items like lethality items or morello which are well rounded, giving a large spike right away. They need to spike and have the ability to kill tanks before they become truly tanky. AP champs go Void second item because they need to kill the tanks now, before they get more hp and/or MR. In most cases for AP champs killing tanks only gets harder as the game goes on, the counter balance to that is that it get's EASIER for ADC's to kill tanks as the game goes on. Penetration items allow AP to murder tanks in the mid game and ADC to murder them late. If someone can always murder them what's the point? Well the point is that typically only that 1 of all 5 enemy champions can really harm the tank so it balances out in that the tank outscales the other damage champs.

I specificly mentioned that LW is to good at what it is doing same with Void

#THIS ITEMS WOULD STILL MELT TANKS Just not to the point where they look like squishies. Build new shiv or bork if you want more tank melting

Now yes some tanks would require damage reduction after this. Rammus would need his W revert if we are nerfing void/lw 600 armor IS ALOT I did say we can nerf tank damage then. Nowdays tanks live so short that they need to burst... I want to change that

Voidstaff is just OP. Idk what else to say this item efficiency is over the roof. Even if a target has no mr its good just WTF

-Penetration items keep tanks honest so they have to build both HP and resistances, otherwise high efficiency tank builds become strong and they can just bypass the early game where burst and assassins need to find a lead. This need for multiple stats prevents tanks from being OP. -ADC's need to be able to achieve high levels of crit and very persistant damage output in order to kill HP stacking tanks. This is why Zeal items need to potentially proc more than once every 30 seconds.

THEY DONT PROC ONCE EVERY FKING 30 SECONDS. READ MY THREAD. WHAT DID YOU THINK 2 item A,C,A,C,A,C MEANT HOLY FK ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

ITS JUST THE COMPONENT ITEM which does some damage every 30 seconds actual crit items dont have that. If you have 3 IE PD SHIV you ll crit 3/4 autos guranted.

C,A,C,C I believe is how formula ll end up

What are carries losing 50% crit damage but they know when they ll crit so its not that much Slightly weaker LW (only worse againt tanks it would get other stats like AD)

and you suddendly think ADC go from BPS to cant do enough damage tank overlords ll conquer league I even nerfed cloth by 2 and bramble by 5 XD

Didnt feel like directly hitting rammus because it is rather specific then global.

As far as Ap items go. The one which puts base dmg and ratio. I should have written fair formula for it thats my bad Scoring points system would be the best Base damage + 30 for every 0.1 AP ratio + 30 for every second of duration (60 if ethernal duration aka karthus E) This is the formula which would choose weakest ability. Note didnt think in detail about this formula just suggested it

  • As far as sorceress wand goes (one that gives stats to weakest ability) There is nothing wrong with powerspike. its an item it costs like 3k gold

Katarina gets insane powerspike with gunblade, Why cant Ahri (her item spikes are bad) have this item as powerspike

The whole point of items is powerspiking. You seem to be afraid of good spikes Kog has insane 1 item spike- Regablade Twitch is the most insane hurricane user

but Ahri and whoever ll like this item cant have a powerspike I did say potentionaly some balance would be required. I did go through like 15 ap champions Karthus seemed potentionaly toxic with this item But if he goes with this item his ulti ll do way less damage eh questionable (rabadon comparison)

As far as Ratios and base damage theories go You make it look potentionaly to simple

There are plenty of lategame champions with bad ratios There are plently of early game champions with bad base damage

Whisper871 votes

Mountain is specifically underpowered in solo Q because people aren't able to use it correctly. If it's in the mid-late game this can let you rush down baron anytime you see 2-3 players shop at once. Think about how many times in solo q people take baron then get hammered right afterwards for 4-5 kills. Mountain can make Baron be done by the time you get there. Solo Q teams are just not coordinated enough to where they can utilize this effectively, but there is a reason why pros regard Infernal and Mountain as the two best late game. Mountain is also good in comps who will sit and siege for extended periods of time as it could make the tower die a whole wave sooner. And while I admit mountain is a bit underwhelming early, if you get a second or third stack of this I'd say hands down becomes one of the best. 20% more true damage to Baron and towers!?

Cloud I agree is undervalued right now, but it's more a problem of not really being a strong advantage to play around unless running a certain kind of composition. Like split push and pick comps would like this a lot, but I think teamfight comps and siege/poke comps would be like meh all the time. In my mind a healthy drake rework would reduce this value variance and make all 4 types have really discernible impact. So like on your scale out of 10 instead of having the worst one be 3/10 and the best 10/10, I'd like to see a world where all 4 dragons can potentially be 10/10 in the right composition but if not then it will still be at least a 7/10 no matter the composition. I consider the variance in dragon value to be a MUCH more unhealthy RNG than critical strike is.

ADC Items again: Here's the deal, people will always try to exploit burst damage. Like against tanks you need to auto them a bunch of times anyways so it doesn't matter if you crit every other time starting on 1 or 2, you are right in this aspect. BUT, when an ADC gets the opportunity to auto a squishy target like the enemy ADC or a assassin, they would love to know they are going to crit that first auto. I'm saying that I think in this system everyone would choose the item that frontloads their crit except in rare situations. So like if i'm ADC and run straight from base to contest drake, heck yeah I'd like to know I'm going to crit that kha zix on my first auto.

Also, making it so that your number of crits only increases with the finished items makes the ADC power curve God awful. Like the early-mid game would be twice as punishing as it is now if you get even a bit behind. The whole point behind auto attacking crit builds is that the stats synergize well together. Since you rely on autos each stat alone is not that good at all, but once you get a bit of attack speed, a bit of damage, a bit of crit they all become AMAZING when together. This is intentional, not an accident of design. If having just a zeal does not increase your crit chance, then the gap between fully built items become HUGE power troughs. Considering a zeal has 20% crit chance, whatever you give the parts building up to the full item in exchange would have to be strong enough to make up for 1 less crit every 5 autos. Or if you are just going to let the zeal give an extra crit every 5 autos I'm cool with that too. Your post has multiple items that say the do bonus damage every 20 seconds or more. We need to keep the ability to improve crit chance between fully built items, and allow the shard bonus magic damage to proc as often as it currently does, or put something in that makes up for all the damage lost at these partial build stages, otherwise the power troughs between items is too big by a lot.

Also I don't know if that new crit system would allow for ADC to get 100% crit if they sell boots for a 3rd zeal item, but I think it should, that always needs to be a thing. I mean I can kind of get behind moving crit damage from 200% to 150%, but I don't think you need to tone their damage in any other way at all.

AP items again: Void maybe could be nerfed to have less AP, but then I'd give it even more penetration. Again most AP champs are kind of hitting their stride near the mid game, so no I don't necessarily think that AP champs should rush this all the time, but I do think it should be an item they are willing to take second if the enemy is MR stacking immediately or third after a second AP item comes out. Again they differ from ADC in that they want to kill and get leads NOW, so they need to get something to help them deal with tanks in the mid game until their ADC has all the crit multipliers and buys LW.

Items completely covering a weakpoint of AP champs is not healthy. There is a reason why certain skills don't hit as hard and a reason why champs have peaks and troughs in their scaling. I agree AP items could use some variety, but I'm think something more along the lines of utility like Luden's Echo and Rylais. To me those are healthy and interesting items. Your idea to make those mana and CDR starting items have more specific intent is a good idea also so that it's not just morello rush across the board. I like that a lot. But I don't think it's healthy for Zoe to have an item that can make her Sleepy Bubble hit for meaningful damage.

Minion Stuff: Being able to control the wave without have to go out there and get agro or use abilities on the creeps is game breaking. Denying a creep to control who gets lvl 2 first, very strong. Making sure the wave is pushing at you or a away from you situationally is very strong. The level 2 rush and wave control is a TON of what goes on early game with trades and mana conservation.

LOL has pretty much always been a game where in most cases ADC's out scale AP carries. The AP's tend to be a bit better at waveclear early on, and have more individual agency through the course of the game. ADC's in return get holy crap hands down the best damage late game in terms of not just the numbers but also reliability and consistency (as auto attacks are not gated by skill shots or cooldows). As late game comes on AP carries become less of a generalist damage position like ADC, and become more specialized as in controlling team fighting with CC or zoning skills, or using their superior burst to kill a squishy in one combo. In some cases the right move is actually for the AP champ to use their skills to protect or assist the ADC late game.

This is the identity of the game. What you are proposing turns the game on it's head. Like literally makes it a whole new game by rewriting general principles. It sounds like what you are trying to do (outside of removing RNG) is making crit building ADC's stronger in the mid game but weaker late game, and giving AP champs the ability to be the primary damage source at ALL stages of the game. I personally am a huge fan of scaling variation and team comp building. I don't want to see items cover gaps in composition. And I dislike homogenization in really any aspect of the game, so the idea of closing the gap between what AP carries and AD carries are designed to do does not sit well with me and I think a LOT of others will agree with that (by moving void staff to be only good late, giving scaling options to AP carries who typically fall off late game, etc, you are narrowing the gap between AP and AD carries)

Poske1 votes

{quoted}

Mountain is specifically underpowered in solo Q because people aren't able to use it correctly. If it's in the mid-late game this can let you rush down baron anytime you see 2-3 players shop at once. Think about how many times in solo q people take baron then get hammered right afterwards for 4-5 kills. Mountain can make Baron be done by the time you get there. Solo Q teams are just not coordinated enough to where they can utilize this effectively, but there is a reason why pros regard Infernal and Mountain as the two best late game. Mountain is also good in comps who will sit and siege for extended periods of time as it could make the tower die a whole wave sooner. And while I admit mountain is a bit underwhelming early, if you get a second or third stack of this I'd say hands down becomes one of the best. 20% more true damage to Baron and towers!?

quite sure that triple mountain has lowest winrate compared to other 3.

Even if it isnt ultra meh and I am wrong (which I doubt so) it still does nothing when behind unlike other drakes. While new Global XP local gold granting mountain would be always useful

Cloud I agree is undervalued right now, but it's more a problem of not really being a strong advantage to play around unless running a certain kind of composition. Like split push and pick comps would like this a lot, but I think teamfight comps and siege/poke comps would be like meh all the time. In my mind a healthy drake rework would reduce this value variance and make all 4 types have really discernible impact. So like on your scale out of 10 instead of having the worst one be 3/10 and the best 10/10, I'd like to see a world where all 4 dragons can potentially be 10/10 in the right composition but if not then it will still be at least a 7/10 no matter the composition. I consider the variance in dragon value to be a MUCH more unhealthy RNG than critical strike is.

That is something I was aiming for. Surprisingly air is also good against pick and split comp less situational then you think. Ocean also randomly helps poke comps with mana sustain

Vs air drake Lux cannot hit her bind. Syndra struggles with stun, elise thresh blitz etc

ADC Items again: Here's the deal, people will always try to exploit burst damage. Like against tanks you need to auto them a bunch of times anyways so it doesn't matter if you crit every other time starting on 1 or 2, you are right in this aspect. BUT, when an ADC gets the opportunity to auto a squishy target like the enemy ADC or a assassin, they would love to know they are going to crit that first auto. I'm saying that I think in this system everyone would choose the item that frontloads their crit except in rare situations. So like if i'm ADC and run straight from base to contest drake, heck yeah I'd like to know I'm going to crit that kha zix on my first auto.

Crit dmg is reduced to 150% so how overbearing would it be though? Did you check my formula and rules?

Firecannon the weakest zeal crit item would be the fastest. I am only scared of Cait traps with this item but she isnt top tier atm + she has no item steroid so nerfing itemization should hurth her

The fastest and the slowest ends with A,C,A,C,A,C (RFC+PD) Bassicly even cases always A wins so even here I balance it out

Now if hurricane was the fastest. That would potentionally be a problem given that item is insane

RFC + Anything except PD = C,A,C,A Ie despite being second fastest due to formula is A,C,A,C with everything

Any other double combination is A,C,A,C,A,C Double IE is A,C,A,C,A but none would build double IE

Its not as bad as you think

I cant put every 5th auto formula because I dont know how that formula would combine with every 4th formula. you would end with roughly 45% crit chance how do I present that with A and C

Inittialy I tried every 6th and every 3rd as combination. That worked in double crit combinations but then in didnt work in triple combination I tried with every 4th and every 3rd that also didnt work in triple combination

Realised the only way is every 4th for such system to exist. Unless we want to forbid more then 2 crit items %Dmg increase is something Riot is against. RNG is not fitting for an LCS game

Zeal every 30 seconds your autoattack does 50-125 (level 1-18) Zeal gives everything the same except 20% Crit is replaced with the above. Now Idk if they are the same strenght I was using huntch

Given that its controlable it should be the same shouldnt it? We could try the 40 second combination which gets reduced by 1 second every time you AA if thats more fair

Also I don't know if that new crit system would allow for ADC to get 100% crit if they sell boots for a 3rd zeal item, but I think it should, that always needs to be a thing. I mean I can kind of get behind moving crit damage from 200% to 150%, but I don't think you need to tone their damage in any other way at all.

4 crit items = 100% Dont you ussualy sell boots for trinity anyway? I mean this is what I do

AP items again: Void maybe could be nerfed to have less AP, but then I'd give it even more penetration. Again most AP champs are kind of hitting their stride near the mid game, so no I don't necessarily think that AP champs should rush this all the time, but I do think it should be an item they are willing to take second if the enemy is MR stacking immediately or third after a second AP item comes out. Again they differ from ADC in that they want to kill and get leads NOW, so they need to get something to help them deal with tanks in the mid game until their ADC has all the crit multipliers and buys LW.

I did the opposite. Blasting wand + blasting wand = 100 ap 2200 gold and 20-25% magic penetration (I suggest testing both numbers) Bassicly it would be more accessible with lower cost. It would have better buildpath more ap but less Pen

Goal is to make void worse against tanks specificly.

Items completely covering a weakpoint of AP champs is not healthy. There is a reason why certain skills don't hit as hard and a reason why champs have peaks and troughs in their scaling. I agree AP items could use some variety, but I'm think something more along the lines of utility like Luden's Echo and Rylais. To me those are healthy and interesting items. Your idea to make those mana and CDR starting items have more specific intent is a good idea also so that it's not just morello rush across the board. I like that a lot. But I don't think it's healthy for Zoe to have an item that can make her Sleepy Bubble hit for meaningful damage.

I mean I did suggest duskblade nerf. I dont want ludens to become ap duskblade. Azir rylai stuff though Riot already a lesson I am sure they will never repeat. + slow on item is so dull ); not even cool

Minion Stuff: Being able to control the wave without have to go out there and get agro or use abilities on the creeps is game breaking. Denying a creep to control who gets lvl 2 first, very strong. Making sure the wave is pushing at you or a away from you situationally is very strong. The level 2 rush and wave control is a TON of what goes on early game with trades and mana conservation.

It is not global. I guess you didnt read this in detail

Interaction range is 300-550 depending on minion. **If you deny a creep enemy still gets EXP You should read my thread in detail I make sure toxic stuff arent allowed.

If you deny after 5 minutes into a game enemies lose experience to if they are nearby. If you deny after 10 minutes you gain experience on top of all the above. if you deny after 15 minutes you gain its gold on top of all the above.

This are the written rules ^^. No level 2 cheese. Keep in mind there is 1 rambo minion per wave and it can be pulled with AA (Interaction range is 550 we could make it increase with runes.. idea I just got) So there is counterplay even after 5.

There are 2 new ways to freeze. First wave minionblock if done correctly. Granted 1 enemy can leash (Probably support) the other can block wave himself for some strategy and follow a lane to be there on time

This is how first wave meta would probably adapt and there is nothign wrong with it..

There is only 1 other way to freeze. This ll happen only in botlane because you cannot interact with wave up until it collides +6/7 seconds / if you farm

Support can stun that Medium ranged minion to gain ms. The stun part could slow a wave a bit. Thats it. Keep in mind you dont have to recall as much which significantly makes this more OK. As I said my changes make much more sense as combination.

I am going to remove the whole if you bump minions they aggro because I just realised this could set a freeze o.o my bad

I mean entering a game and waiting 2 minutes for it to start is ughh. Cheese invades I just hate. Scouting is even worse you have to do nothing in high elo yet pay attention that is really boring. So I really want something unique like blocking first wave

As far as Mages vs Carries and homogenizing

Nowdays AD carries are strong at all stages of a game. Or at the very worst As soon as we hit 2 items carries catchup (hypercarries) exluding kog regablade spike, trinity spike, duskblade spike,

Given that carries do consistent damage and that voidstaff % is much more important then LW %. Since abilities have cooldown unlike autos I assure you carries would still be the primary way of killing tanks post LW. New shiv would help to.

I want them to take the tanks down I dont want them to burst them. Now yes some tanks which have %dmg reduction abilities dont get bursted but that sort of system ruins any champion without %dmg reduction unless they become Tanks which burst themself. This is a main reason why I am nerfing LW/VOID

Carries add consistency Mages add potentional

Every role should have 20% game influence

AD carries will always be the main objective takers

I understand your concern though

Whisper871 votes

I just don't see how adding ways to control waves with out direct interaction (autoing or casting on them) can be good for the game.

Part of how the game is balanced is around this works. If you send a support to clear or control a wave, typically it takes them longer to do anything because they do less damage. During the early game wave control is contestable because you have to get up near the wave to hit it, as a support your autos do very little, maybe you'd cast at the minions, but then you're sacrificing mana and creating a trade window for the enemy team while your spell is on cd. This is a big part of what makes laning interesting.

If a Braum can just pop out of brush for a second and slow or increase the push of a wave without having to use any mana or walk up and auto for pennies damage, this is a huge dynamics shift for bot lane and might actual deter interaction (trading) during lane phase. Riot specifically made it so you can't block creeps before they get into lane for a reason. They want you to have to fight over wave control, there's no way you can just have it. Yes under your system the other side has access to same skills, so you can contest wave control, I get that. But they want you to FIGHT over it. Like when you go up to hit the wave you can get poked or engaged on, when you cast a spell to help push or slow a push you sacrifice mana and a cooldown window for fighting.

The whole 20% influence thing I think is a little unfair to say as this manifests itself in very different ways. Supports do a lot of stuff in a game that don't SEEM super impactful. Like let's see numbers of damage absorbed by Braum E shield throughout course of a game. Vision control is another huge one. ADC I get feels a little too impactful right now in terms of combat, BUT the counterpoint to that argument is you could say that creating space and facilitating for the ADC is a part of the other roles' impact on the game. Sure maybe Udyr doesn't feel good in 5v5's at all....BUT if he was counterjungling a ton and ganked a time or two for his ADC, his impact on the game is huge in terms of getting his ADC an advantage and drawing attention to himself or setting the enemy jungler back so they can't gib his ADC. And Tanks is a similar factor. If you're looking at something Mao, Naut, Sejauni, these utility tanks are largely impactful because of facilitation. Top lane they not only have the pressure to TP bottom, but also just the ability to sit in a side lane alone to move wave pressure is nice, and then they create LOADS of space for their ADC in team fights. Typically you don't send ADC to side lanes to push out unless the wave is pushed close to tower, Top gets to do it then. Syndra lands a stun onto 2 people? Maybe she can only burst one down, but that extra stun may have bought her ADC the time to melt that second guy free autoing and then position to fight the rest of the team.

I'm not saying everything is balanced right now, I think crit ADC's do need a little work, but just a little. And the whole identity of ADC is that they are the primary damage dealers in the game after they hit their build. As someone who has mained ADC a lot over the years, I can tell you that no matter how fed you are, marksmen feel super bad when your mid lane is constantly missing stuns or stunning the wrong targets, when your tank only ever dives back line and refuses to peel, when your Lee Sin will only use his R for engage and not to make space for his ADC. Team fights have always been basically "Either burst the enemy ADC or protect your own". For years if the team was playing properly, your damage dealt to champs chart would reflect your ADC as far and away the highest % of your team's damage, exceptions being really short games or like if you paired up a crazy scaling mid like Vlad with a early game ADC like Lucian. Even then the Lucian might still win out in damage dealt. Riot moved away from this system once, and everyone hated it. (Remember the ADC meme's when everyone just spammed Ashe and Jhin for the utility) Even casters/analysts were saying that marksmen weren't really "carries" at that point.

Poske1 votes

You have to go infront of minion and stutter s buttom in order to somewhat block him. That is nothing but interacting. Also supports could force those 2 specific minions in minion block with leftclick (interacting) and there use of clicking.

Keep in mind what blocking them means. It doesnt mean that you suddendly make minion completly unable to move EG J4. You just slow him down. Did you every attempt to block a minion wave? We can already do that with our hitboxes, this would just allow it even at first wave which was a thing 1 year ago. Riot made a horrible call removing it just because of 1 lcs game where it proved to be useful

Go in Practice tool and try to block a second Wave

You would still fight for a wave manipulation, just waves would collide differently and players would have to use their brains and act strategicly accordingly. This adds variety and complexity

Stunning the 1 aoe minion for 2 seconds / forcing one of 2 melee minions to create a block and give AS

First one can slow down a wave by what 2 second stun might lead to what? 10%? thats not overbearing. the whole attackspeed thingy can be counterplayed by simply kill those creeps first

There would be roughly equal ammount of freezes. Yes you can pottentionally force a freeze by stunning but you have to wait 6/7 seconds at which point ugh.... you are wasting time. It ll realisticly only happen in botlane and there are 2 people to manipulate waves so its more OK

Anyway since people would recall less due to currier minion there would naturaly be less freezes

I mean I dont get it do you think I am nerfing carries to hard? 150% Crit - 200 with IE Weaker LW against tanks (armor) Sometimes support would deny a minion

But you gain. 200 Local gold from inhibitors, Earth drake gives local gold to. Games naturaly last longer with my changes which is something a carry would like. This is because towers give less global gold and deathtimers are shorter. With my changes most of games you ll actually reach a lategame

Even in ADC 2k17 lul meta (You have to understand this is just a meme ) there were 0 non AD carries botlane except for Ziggs. And Me doing ADC Yasuo he used to be classified as Melee AD carry and was actually designed to be melee ADC

Its not like ziggs would even beat carries. He was more of there to get tower in case his team did good gank not because of damage power. He was there strictly for depush / push

I actually like Carries having cheap itemization. Given that they are most gold reliant class it just feels right. I targeted Crit nerf because Crit chance is unhealthy so its a Win Win

Lastwhisper breaks a game balance in a subtle way. I do realise this is not the most transperent thing but tank should never die in 4-5 autos. That means bruisers die in 3 autos even when building tanky so suddendly they become worse version of assassins

Every role should be at 20% influence

Currently toplane is at 5-7% influence. AD carry is at like 35% influence. Midlane has fine influence if you are playing roamer / champion who spikes with just 1 item

Some supports of course have more then 20%. I feel like lulu and janna have more. My thread indirectly nerfs them because of anti knock dash item and I did say polymorph should be changed for the sake of melees

Whisper871 votes

Maybe I misread, but it looked like your new zeal items were going to make the bonus magic damage proc less often. But if it's still based on the 100 energy and energy builds on attacking and moving then that's fine. I just thought it was a huge downgrade if the magic procs from shyv and cannon proc any less often.

Poske1 votes

Stattick shiv got reworked it doesnt crit but thunder theme is there. its also good vs tanks Cannon has both

I just mentioned how crits would change nothing else on zeal items got changed except shiv which needed rework beacuse it was Rng with rng with thunders.

Since stattick can crit itself it kinda sounded toxic. Thats why i went with thunder theme

AR URF1 votes

No reason to make a long as thread. The boards are full of trolls.

Taswell1 votes

if you put this much effort into a complaint, I think the Balance team should officially review it.

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