Is Kayle too versatile/strong?

Warlord Rhinark··1 votes·2,673 views

Just something I've been thinking about a lot the past few days.

You see, I've been playing a lot of Kayle lately (you're allowed to call me a complete waste of human life in the comments below but please bear with me for now) and even though she's not the most meta right now, or played very often, I think I can safely say that she is one of, IF NOT THE MOST, versatile champion in the game. Why? Let me explain.

Her kit in general:

  1. A passive shred that makes it hard to build against her (coupled with a Wit's End and a Void Staff if AP Kayle or Black Cleaver with a Last Whisper if AD Kayle it becomes almost impossible to build against her). Not only that, but her allies benefit from the shred as well.

  2. A slow that lasts for 3 seconds and deals a good chunk of damage with very high scalings.

  3. The biggest base heal in the entire game, as well as a movement speed up for engaging, disengaging, and getting to lane/roaming faster (7% per 100 AP scaling).

  4. Passive on hit damage similar to Teemo. The ability to go from a melee champion to a ranged champion with the click of a simple ability, as well as getting free waveclear that scales with both AD and AP.

  5. An invulnerability spell that lasts for up to 3 seconds, gets to about a 40-50 second cooldown with CDR items and costs NO MANA.

Already, this makes her able to cover a multitude of roles. I'll go into detail:

As a top laner, she has:

  1. Semi-decent bullying potential with her long range and high base damage on her E, Righteous Fury.

  2. Amazing splitpush potential with great innate wave clear on her aforementioned E.

  3. A crippling slow with her Q, Reckoning.

  4. A heal on her W, Diving Blessing, that both sustains her in lane, as well as granting Movement Speed allowing her to engage, disengage, and get to lane faster. Not to mention it can be cast on her jungler ganking for her in lane. It can also be cast on her ADC which you'll evantually end up being a peel machine for due to the meta we're currently in, in the late game.

  5. Passive Armor and Magic Resistance shred making it difficult for your lane opponent to build against her.

  6. And an absolutely game changing Ultimate, Intervention, that not only gives her insane dueling potential, but also makes her ADC (which, again, she'll probably end up as a peel machine for) practially invulnerable for 3 whole seconds.

As a Jungler, she has:

  1. Semi-decent clear with her E.

  2. A crippling slow for ganking.

  3. A heal as well as a speed up for those she's ganking for.

  4. A passive shred that helps her lane buddy deal more damage.

  5. Aforementioned Ultimate that can be cast on her lane buddy or peel for ADC in the late game.

As a Mid laner, she has:

... Not really too much. Then again, almost everything can be played Mid lane nowadays anyway so whatever.

As an ADC, she has:

  1. Great waveclear.

  2. Her own CC.

  3. She can peel for herself with her heal and ultimate.

  4. Aforementioned passive shred.

  5. She can build full AD items (to some extent) since her Q has a 100% AD SCALING. (who the fuck did this?) and her E's splash damage has a 40% AD scaling (basically a slightly worse Tiamat for a ranged champion).

And finally, as a Support, she has:

  1. Aforementioned passive shred for her ADC to benefit from.

  2. A slow that helps her ADC catch up to the enemy.

  3. A heal. Pretty self explanatory why this is good for her ADC, especially considering it grants Movement Speed (30% flat with 7% per 100 AP. Up to a 50% movement speed increase in the late game).

  4. Aforementioned insane Ultimate.

  5. She can actually fight on her own without teammates (to some extent).

  6. She's one of the few Support who can use the increased attack speed and on-hit damage gained from Ardent Censer on herself.

Overall, this makes her sound very versatile, and very, very strong in my book. But this is still not all. We also have:

Itemization.

Due to the fact that she can switch between Melee and Ranged with the simple click of a button, she's one of the few champions that can buy both Hydra and Runaan's Hurricane at the same time.

However, of course, one of them gets "turned off" when she switches between melee and ranged so don't worry.

However, those weren't the items I'd like to adress today.

Today I want to adress two items called.

Sterak's Gage, and the upcoming Spear of Shojin.

If you've ever played a Juggernaut or a Bruiser (especially Jax) you've probably built a Sterak's Gage.

And you also know that this item was changed to being melee only, right? (I'm so sorry for you Urgot players out there).

Well...

Since Kayle is classified as a Melee character when her E isn't on, she can still buy Sterak's Gage as if the Melee Only thing was never implemented.

This essentially makes her an ADC, able to buy Sterak's Gage.

Do you not realise how powerful that is? That's exactly why we made Sterak's Gage Melee Only and Kayle can just bypass it!

But even that isn't the thing I'm most concerned about.

The thing I'm really scared about is with the upcoming item, Spear of Shojin.

Now, there isn't any concrete information on it yet, but I've heard some rumors that they might make this item Melee Only.

As we've seen with Kayle and Sterak's Gage, she can become EVEN MORE powerful if she can also bypass the limitation with Spear of Shojin.

At that point, even I as a Kayle player has to realise that this is crossing the line.

I don't want to drag this post out for much longer so I think I'll end it here.

Now, personally I like her the way she is as a champion. If I could choose something, I'd maybe do some number tweaks but her concept as this "support that can fight for herself" is just to unique and fun to me and I'd hate for it to just be removed.

Quite frankly, I'm actually very, very scared to actually post this because I'm really fucking afraid of Riot actually seeing this and deciding to nerf her to the ground. I'd much rather have kept my mouth shut and enjoyed my champion in peace at that point.

However, I also realise that I might be biased since I play her so that's why I want to reach out to other people and hear their opinions on Kayle as well, not just my own.

I'll put a poll down below so you can vote on whether or not you think Kayle is too strong or not. Feel free to elaborate further down in the comments and if you have a different suggestion to what YOU consider to be the most versatile champion in the game, please do post it down below.

(And one little quick side note for you people who made it this far. Kayle has the THIRD HIGHEST BASE HEALTH IN THE ENTIRE GAME AT LEVEL 18. Think about that for a second).

9 Comments

MaReK DOTA21 votes

Kayle is like ADC, her late game is strong, but early game pretty harsh, since her attack speed nerfs and cooldown nerfs on E (in late game is now better, early harder) . She is pretty strong in good hands, but useless in bad hands. Her kit is pretty much outdated. She will likely get rework in future.

Her winrate is higher because of low pickrate and most of the time only Kayle mains play her. She is niche situational pick.

Warlord Rhinark1 votes

I'm assuming you're talking about Kayle in the top lane.

What do you think of her in another place like Support for example?

MaReK DOTA21 votes

Yeah i was talking about Top lane, since that's her most played lane. Support is not that bad, but Kayle is pretty much item-dependent champ as well as level dependent, so there are far more better supports who can do the same (except her unique ulti), also she is mana hungry if she spams her abilities (Q and W), her E in support role is pretty much useless.

Arisha the Dark1 votes

[{quoted}](name=MaReK DOTA2,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hbQrERVA,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-22T13:14:12.887+0000)

Yeah i was talking about Top lane, since that's her most played lane. Support is not that bad, but Kayle is pretty much item-dependent champ as well as level dependent, so there are far more better supports who can do the same (except her unique ulti), also she is mana hungry if she spams her abilities (Q and W), her E in support role is pretty much useless.

Her unique ulti is a faster, but weaker Tariks ulti.

Pika Fox1 votes

Pretty sure this is one of the reasons shes getting reworked. Either she pops off, or she trynd ults someone who is. Her heal is so weak now from all the nerfs that it really doesnt feel like an ability, and her E is so jarring to use. Suddenly becoming melee again and running it down into the enemy team or missing that kill feels horrible for kayle, and it is extremely powerful and whenever shes strong it feels terrible for the enemy too.

Arisha the Dark1 votes

She is not bad, but she is outshined by some other champions in every lane.

Top, easy to gank, her sustain isn't that good because of the mana cost, enemy with gap closers like Jax, Riven, Fiora, Camille and Pantheon can exploit her not dealing much damage when her e is on cd. Also, she needs Nashors tooth to start dealing damage, while champions like Riven, Darius and Urgot can deal damage with just Dorans shield.

In mid any champion with good mobility and high damage, like Zed, Fizz, Yasuo, Ahri, will be able to easily harass her. And while her ult will protect her from some of their damage, it's duration on level one usually isn't enough to turn fight in her favor.

Bot, just no. Almost every adc would be better. Kai'sa, Vayne, Lucian, Tristana and Draven, all have more utility designed for adc role. Her heal isn't that good actually, has long cd and high mana cost, without ap her q doesn't deal that much damage, so any dedicated defensive or offensive support will be better.

Jungle, don't know. Never done, so don't know.

She needs buffs if anything. Even better, a slight rework. She is part support part damage dealer. While it sounds interesting as an idea, it actually just means that any dedicated support and damage dealer can do what she can, but better.

Mob Piru1 votes

i play her support, with aery. Its the best

Kaioko1 votes

She's in line for a rework as it is already (same time with Mrorgana since they are sisters) and her kit is not problematic currently, just very linear.

Kurai Mahou no1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hbQrERVA,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-05-22T12:47:07.762+0000)

As a top laner, she has:

  1. Semi-decent bullying potential with her long range and high base damage on her E, Righteous Fury.

  2. Amazing splitpush potential with great innate wave clear on her aforementioned E.

  3. A crippling slow with her Q, Reckoning.

  4. A heal on her W, Diving Blessing, that both sustains her in lane, as well as granting Movement Speed allowing her to engage, disengage, and get to lane faster. Not to mention it can be cast on her jungler ganking for her in lane. It can also be cast on her ADC which you'll evantually end up being a peel machine for due to the meta we're currently in, in the late game.

  5. Passive Armor and Magic Resistance shred making it difficult for your lane opponent to build against her.

  6. And an absolutely game changing Ultimate, Intervention, that not only gives her insane dueling potential, but also makes her ADC (which, again, she'll probably end up as a peel machine for) practially invulnerable for 3 whole seconds.

Gank and Camp Kayle a few times and she'll have a hard time getting back without farm. Gap Closers will kill Kayle during laning phase. Hard CC or "Cold Steel" will cripple her while ulted or not. Mana Cost of W makes it difficult to spam sustain for long. Mana Cost of Q and its 1 second delay makes it difficult to spam.

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hbQrERVA,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-05-22T12:47:07.762+0000)

As a Jungler, she has:

  1. Semi-decent clear with her E.

  2. A crippling slow for ganking.

  3. A heal as well as a speed up for those she's ganking for.

  4. A passive shred that helps her lane buddy deal more damage.

  5. Aforementioned Ultimate that can be cast on her lane buddy or peel for ADC in the late game.

Easy to invade. Moderate Health Jungling. 8.11 Jungle Changes makes Jungle a terrible role to be in for Kayle (not enough EXP or Gold). Patch 7.9 has thown Kayle out of the Jungle. Get Riot to fix to Hunter's Talisman + E interaction and we'll talk again.

As a Mid laner, she has:

... Not really too much. Then again, almost everything can be played Mid lane nowadays anyway so whatever.

See Top Lane. She can make an Assassin's life in lane a living hell though. She beats Fizz and Zed in a pure Kit matchup.

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hbQrERVA,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-05-22T12:47:07.762+0000)

As an ADC, she has:

  1. Great waveclear.

  2. Her own CC.

  3. She can peel for herself with her heal and ultimate.

  4. Aforementioned passive shred.

  5. She can build full AD items (to some extent) since her Q has a 100% AD SCALING. (who the fuck did this?) and her E's splash damage has a 40% AD scaling (basically a slightly worse Tiamat for a ranged champion).

Don't try this without a competent sustain+hard CC support. 8 sec E downtime early game means you basically picked a Melee into a Ranged match up. W sustain is inefficient and will cost Kayle's ability to E.

Bight side is if Kayle gets a lead in Bottom lane, she'll make the enemy ADC nonexistent.

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hbQrERVA,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-05-22T12:47:07.762+0000)

And finally, as a Support, she has:

  1. Aforementioned passive shred for her ADC to benefit from.

  2. A slow that helps her ADC catch up to the enemy.

  3. A heal. Pretty self explanatory why this is good for her ADC, especially considering it grants Movement Speed (30% flat with 7% per 100 AP. Up to a 50% movement speed increase in the late game).

  4. Aforementioned insane Ultimate.

  5. She can actually fight on her own without teammates (to some extent).

  6. She's one of the few Support who can use the increased attack speed and on-hit damage gained from Ardent Censer on herself.

Only do this with a duo, ADCs do not like Kayle Support. W is insufficient for proccing Ardent Censor. Basically playing Kayle for her Ultimate.

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