Which mages/assassins get indirectly hit with Luden's nerf next patch?

ProfDrDeath·Jun 7, 2015·7 votes·841 views

Who do you think will be affected by the upcoming nerf to Luden's Echo? And to what degree will they be affected?

> AP ratio on unique passive reduced to 10 % from 15% > Charges gained from casting a spell reduced to 10 from 20.

My guess is:

Certain assassins who only get one proc during their rotation anyway will be less affected. This includes, for example, : Q (Proc) R W E is only 60 charges after the proc, and the distance covered by W doesn't refill 40 points.
Katarina will be hit harder, but only if she gets resets - for the same reason as LB above, using all her skills once does not refresh Luden's yet.
Spammy mages like , or will be hit the most.

16 Comments

Vistha KaiJun 8, 20155 votes

The biggest hit will take those champions Luden was designed for - poke mages, not the ones that abuse "freelo" - assassins.

Hard4HamstersJun 8, 20154 votes

The hardest hit will be spammy mages. Poke champs will get hit decently but not as hard as spell slinging mages that move only slightly in between casts because they are coming out so fast. Basically Ryze and Cassiopeia will get hit the absolute hardest, especially since they make use out of the MS because they are highly immobile and are often within spell or auto range when they are dishing out their damage. Poke mages like Xerath Ziggs KogMaw will get hit fairly hard as well but not as hard as the spell slingers. They often are moving around quite a bit between spell casts to help stack Luden's and they are only looking to whittle down opponents with the item instead of using 4+ procs of the item within a teamfight to take out the enemy team (as Ryze and Cassi use the item for).

Finally burst mages aren't going to be affected by this as much as they are only looking to proc the passive once to help them burst down an enemy squishy. So the damage is still going to be mostly there for their burst combo. That part of the item isn't getting hit that hard. The stacking got halved for spell casts, and this will affect more DPS oriented mages most of all.

WalkingInACircleJun 7, 20152 votes

I know Ahri will be hit some, but still planning to get it first. With the ~~removal~~ change of meditation I've moved over to 21/9/0 and double dorans -> Luden, which seems to be solid. Having both the early game damage item and early game regen nerfed feels liked being boxed in a corner item build wise.

YossarianSenseiJun 8, 20152 votes

Literally all of them because every mage is building Luden's right now

JAGMAGJun 7, 20151 votes

ap kogmaw will probably take a big hit from it

MaikalJun 7, 20151 votes

Building it won't be viable imo. It's not even worth getting as is unless you buy it as a first item, which means you sacrifice cdr and mana regen from morellos or mr and magic pen from abby sceptre.

KãtãrinãJun 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Building it won't be viable imo. It's not even worth getting as is unless you buy it as a first item, which means you sacrifice cdr and mana regen from morellos or mr and magic pen from abby sceptre.

Usuually if you want magic pen you go void. abys is only an early game item honestly.

MaikalJun 8, 20151 votes

Yeah I agree, that's why I said that by getting Luden's as a first item (which is usually the only time it's worth getting unless you get super late game and sell boots for it), you sacrifice mr and magic pen from other strong first items like abyssal sceptre or cdr and mana regen from morellos. I think you misunderstood my comment.

3TWarriorJun 8, 20151 votes

well, it increases mages' AOE, adds up to 415 damage (should a game last that long...), is an easy low level source of damage, its effects can hit non-visible champs, and it provides 100 ap and 7% move speed

MaikalJun 8, 20151 votes

Luden's has a 15% AP ratio. 100 damage + (315) as you suggest would require 2100 AP. Not even Veigar gets that in any real game lol. If you were talking about 415 damage assuming it hits 4 targets and you were only talking about the scaling then that makes sense, but at that point in the game the 200 damage (including the base damage and scaling ofc) each person would take doesn't factor resists, lifesteal, or how much more HP people have late game. Luden's passive becomes pretty insignificant. It does pop banshee veils which is pretty nice though.

LegitBacon66Jun 7, 20151 votes

It can still work for extra burst, but it will be less damage.

Mandang0Jun 7, 20151 votes

The impact on assassins is very small. A 0.05 AP ratio nerf is the smallest nerf you can do - at 100 AP, it's still only 5 damage. The charge nerf is completely irrelevant for assassins, whose play pattern is burst. They'll still have more than enough time to recharge the proc before their cooldown reel comes back up. Spammy mages will be hit more by the change, but honestly Luden's wasn't great on DPS mages to begin with (Ryze and Cassie shouldn't even be buying it).

ProfDrDeathJun 7, 20151 votes

Both top and mid Cass have an early Luden's in their highest winrate buildpaths.

And in LCS, 3 out of 4 winning Ryze built Luden's.