Boards›Gameplay

Are there any nerfs for Zac in order?

Mira Arya Enthe··58 votes·4,087 views

http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/zac/platinum Guy is at 68% ban rate, 10.4% play rate and 55.2% win rate. I know the boards are obsessed with tanks but this is clearly out of hand.

Just for comparison Yasuo only has a http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/yasuo/platinum 37% ban rate platinum+

And even Fizz is only at http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/fizz/platinum 57%.

Both have lower win rates and Fizz has a lower play rate as well. Zac is blatantly broken. And these stats are pulled from Platinum+

In Diamond+ he is all the way up to a http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/zac/diamond 79% ban rate.

It is obvious nobody wants this champion in their games. And he has more than enough time to settle and be tuned from the rework.

And for lower tier players http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/zac/bronze He is still managing a 35.5% ban rate and 54% win rate. So it is not just a high tier problem.

And before somebody "Ugh you cherry picked websites." The usual argument of stat denialists.

Zac is in need of nerfs regardless of which site you trust.

http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/zac/platinum

https://na.op.gg/champion/zac/statistics/jungle

http://www.lolking.net/champions/zac#/overview

http://lolalytics.com/champion/Zac/

http://champion.gg/champion/Zac/Jungle

132 Comments

TyrekGoldenspear55 votes

He has had bad times before, but he always bounces back.

Warhammer Titan25 votes

stop that.

sardiniii1 votes

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Ahristocats22 votes

i suggest you check pbe

he got -20 damage on E and -10 damage on W which is a lot on a tank

Mira Arya Enthe14 votes

I feel a 88% pick or ban ratio in D+ cannot be solved with 30 damage. All champions who have ever had such numbers required nerf after nerf over many patches.

Ahristocats19 votes

elastic slinghost damage has the history of being the main problem of zac balance

everytime they nerfed/buffed the number since zac release it changed his balance state last time after the rework they buffed it from 260 to 280, it's only natural for meddler to revert this buff before going further

so yes, it can actually solve the problem, especially since his rework zac lost his old ult AOE damage and relies heavily on his E to do damage

Raiyza8 votes

I just hate how Zac can gank from that massive range on a short cooldown.

Ralanr18 votes

Sadly that's basically his shtick. It's like Fizz's troll pole.

It's annoying as fuck but it's their defining ability.

Mira Arya Enthe5 votes

This. I have no problem with his range it is what he does.

Raiyza1 votes

Yep. But honestly the new Ult is verrryyy unique. Maybe that should be his shtick? I dunno. I'm not expecting Riot to nerf his E, I just cannot stand that ability.

Warhammer Titan13 votes

Zac needs that engage to perform well

Chembaron Yamada6 votes

Not only that, but the reason why they changed him in the tank update in the first place was because they thought that he could live up to his fantasy even better.

Slingshot definitely fits the fantasy of the living goo, taking that skill away would mean to remove a part of his gameplay fantasy again and that wouldn't make sense.

Bob the Toastr3 votes

It would be nice if the increased the time he had to channel to get the max range out of it. Like at least 2 seconds.

Ralanr5 votes

At least?

That's overkill dude.

Bob the Toastr6 votes

I'm sorry you think having to wait 2 seconds to jump 2000 units is overkill. It doesn't really hurt his gank potential, just his ability to get out of fights easily. He should be punished for making bad engages, not rewarded for it.

Theorchero2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bob the Toastr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hUKNjGvl,comment-id=0007000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2017-06-07T18:28:42.034+0000)

I'm sorry you think having to wait 2 seconds to jump 2000 units is overkill. It doesn't really hurt his gank potential, just his ability to get out of fights easily. He should be punished for making bad engages, not rewarded for it.

True but remember, 2s takes a lot of time in league.

Mira Arya Enthe6 votes

Perhaps. I disagree but I appreciate your informed input here. Thanks for commenting.

Malicious Metal3 votes

He also lost flat damage in Unstable matter, which is his most spammable ability.

Warhammer Titan1 votes

Do you know how much?

Malicious Metal3 votes

Unstable Matter (W) damage lowered from 40/55/70/85/100 to 30/45/60/75/90

AwesomeGuyDj5 votes

but it does 8% max hp dmg, so i dont think 10 dmg will be making a difference. He feels more like a cc disruption tank then one that does dmg.

ProfDrDeath4 votes

10 damage early is quite a lot, especially since it is closer to 40-50 damage per camp that he loses. His clear time and possibly clear sustain will suffer from this.

XIII Vanitas2 votes

It does make a huge difference. You have to think about the fact that it's his main tool to clear the jungle and that he has to use it multiple times on each camp. If you take away 10 damage from it, he's going to do at least 50 less damage per camp, which means he would have to use one more W than he currently uses, which means it's going to take about 3 more seconds per camp, which means he's going to have less time to gank.

DJ Wildcard1 votes

rofl, he could do 0 damage and still be completely broken when standing within 100 miles of a fizz, zed, kahzix, draven, ashe, morgana, velkoz, mord, ahri, akalia....

any assassin has free chance to dive his gank any adc has free chance to dive his gank

he basically catapolts into a fight and explodes then walks away while everyone is running for their life trying to avoid chain stuns.

if you are laning with a fizz, you dont have a chance at all. no chacne if he ganks from above or below river bushes (because usually these are a safe ward)

which means i need to dump 2 wards and a red in the river bush just to stand in lane. because all he has to do is walk up, fling into battle, and fizz sidesteps to throw ult, instantly im at 200 hp if i dont have hourglass, then fizz jump or zac's grab is instant.

i could flash under turret, sometimes, and then if he comes back in....lets say 20 seconds, im comepletely useless in a fight, meanwhile fizz is untargetable getting ready to land on me and all my minions. so i can kiss the defensive minion pile goodbye, oh and zac didnt even have to ult yet.

so he can now return in another 20 seconds, to combo stun-gank me under turret from behind jungle.

good thing i bought another red ward.... and oh here is my jungler... zac grabs the both of us, beats us together, then ults, grabs us and jumps us into mid lane where fizz can simply hop, untargetable while we start attacking / running, then fizz 1 shots me who has already taken well over 6k dmg at level 6

im not going to keep ranting its just like, this is rediculous. you cant nerf broken gank utilities by de-buffing damage. thats the equivalent of putting foam padding on a .357 magnum....its still going to kill anyone.... oh but soft safety grip, oh why thank you gg uninstall. lol.

Ahristocats2 votes

[{quoted}](name=DJ Wildcard,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hUKNjGvl,comment-id=00070002,timestamp=2017-06-07T18:11:30.800+0000)

rofl, he could do 0 damage and still be completely broken

oh, then you're new to the game

soon you will learn that zac used to deal 260 damage instead of 280 and was uter trash just because of this nerf in season 3

DJ Wildcard1 votes

then your clearly garbage for bringing up a 20 dmg less than 5% nerf as a clear example for a mechanical representation.

how are you even trying to make a point off of that. if that low of a damage nerf throws the game, your basically saying if someone has a 20 gold lead they are winning 100% of the time.

maybe people learned how to counter him and watch for him better, no thats clearly not sensible, obviously it was the 1% damage nerf that threw the entire game spiraling into oblivion because no play could cope with 1 damage less.

why do trolls exist....

Malicious Metal9 votes

"Wah, Boards have a tank fetish so they're going to say Zac is fine."

Like, it's getting ridiculous of how many times you're bringing this up.

On the topic of Zac, yes, he's a must ban right now. Yes, Riot is already nerfing him.

Is it enough? I doubt it, Zac has always been one of the strongest Junglers, flying under the radar for most of the time.

Mira Arya Enthe9 votes

Wah, Boards have a tank fetish so they're going to say Zac is fine.

Good. More people are catching on. Spent a year listening to "Wah no tanks are playable. Uhm... ignore those ones over there."

As for the rest. Exactly. I think his mechanics need nerfs, specifically the range he can pull people. I don't think 30 damage will solve it.

Malicious Metal7 votes

He has to either lose significant damage or some of his disruption potential.

Since a lot of people don't really want to play wet noodles (even though Zac basically is one) they really need to cut down on his Q disruption. Unlike E and R his Q isn't really that telegraphed and is on a lower cool down.

Mira Arya Enthe4 votes

Agreed. I think he needs to be brought down to Sej/Galio balance. I think they are in a great spot. Then need to bring tanks like Sion up to that point.

Anhartamin5 votes

[deleted]

Mira Arya Enthe9 votes

Tripple dorans is broke. Galio is mildly overtuned at worst. Riot is fixing triple dorans.

Malicious Metal2 votes

Well, he kinda is up there though. Sion top has a 54% win rate since the buffs to his W.

Don't ask me how/why

Glory ln Death2 votes

Sion doesn't need any more buffs. He's the #2 top laner and #1 support, according to op.gg.

Ralanr3 votes

Unplayable tanks for a year?

You sure it wasn't "2k17" threads?

Shadòw7 votes

he is nerfed on PBE atm

Mira Arya Enthe11 votes

I don't think 20 damage on his combo is going to make much of a difference to a 79% ban rate in Diamond.

Edit: Upvoted you to keep you at +1. While I do not feel the nerfs are enough you commenting with information does not deserve downvotes.

Warhammer Titan4 votes

DANG IT! If only zac didnt do 20 more damage!!! I would have easily won this game!

Shadòw4 votes

with the w and e nerfs combined it's 30 Damage.

I would also say it's not enough, but these 30 Damage will not only affect his all the whole game, but also his jungle clear.

these 30 Damage might affect him more than we think in the end, we need to wait.

Steelflame1 votes

Damage values on skills is an absolutely massive part of a jungler's power potential, ESPECIALLY if they are not an AD jungler. 10 damage at rank 1 doesn't seem like a lot, but on an ability with about a 2-3 second CD that pushes him to have to cast it an extra time or two, and an extra 3-6 seconds per camp adds up massively, both in damage taken from the jungle (reducing safety, making ganks more likely to be risky and may push you from being able to chain 2 ganks back to back to a gank and recall or gank and back to farming) and the time you can start ganking (18-24 seconds later).

Non-AD Junglers have insanely easy to tune levers on their skills, and have difficulty fixing the issues bad skill damage produces, unlike AD junglers. AP junglers practically don't even exist right now, so we don't even need to consider them. Elise is the only real exception, and the only reason she is such an exception is because both the Meta fits her perfectly (Very fast paced meta, games rarely go into late game where her bad scalings start to show. Oh look, Elise's favorite meta), and her kit has tons of natural jungle tools (Sustain, manaless on her spider form, %HP damage, AoE, spiderlings can tank damage for her, ect)

abdul5697 votes

I find it amazing that just a few weeks ago we got people complaining how he was unplayable, the rework ruined him etc. It always seemed like a numbers problem rather than gameplay and he just got overtuned in that regard this time.

Mira Arya Enthe8 votes

People always whine about reworks, or changes in general, before they have the full scope of things.

TheGoomyGamer7 votes

Taliyah Taliyah Taliyah Taliyah Taliyah Taliyah Taliyah Taliyah Taliyah Taliyah Taliyah Taliyah Taliyah Taliyah Taliyah Taliyah Taliyah Taliyah Taliyah Taliyah Taliyah Taliyah Taliyah Taliyah Taliyah Taliyah Taliyah Taliyah Taliyah Taliyah Taliyah Taliyah Taliyah Taliyah Taliyah Taliyah Taliyah Taliyah Taliyah Taliyah Taliyah Taliyah Taliyah Taliyah Taliyah

TyrekGoldenspear6 votes

Now replace every Taliyah with "Throw another rock!"

TheGoomyGamer6 votes

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Bouncemaster Zac2 votes

{quoted}

I find it amazing that just a few weeks ago we got people complaining how he was unplayable, the rework ruined him etc. It always seemed like a numbers problem rather than gameplay and he just got overtuned in that regard this time.

The rework did ruin him. They "fixed" it by massively overbuffing his numbers.

ForgiveColour7 votes

GG once people that jacks off to tanks wake up prepare to be downvoted

Warhammer Titan4 votes

B-b-b-b-b--b-but hes not even op! He does no damage because hes a tank h-h-he needs the cc and damage

Warhammer Titan4 votes

I feel like they need to nerf his q range or something. You get away from him then he just pulls you back into a minion from across the world

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