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My initial thoughts on preseason so far

Malicious Metal··7 votes·1,284 views

#Disclaimer: This is just my personal opinion, everybody's bound to have their own views on the matter, especially related to how well their champion pool performs in the new environment

Ah yes, preseason. A time of change, of funky new features and of course, of constant discussion over what's broken, what's UP and how Riot once again fucked up the game.

But now, taking a step back and looking at the game's state I'll just share my initial observations about Preseason.

Game length Some people say games snowball too hard, but I have to disagree. Yes, once a champion, especially ad assassins, gets fed they can really be hard to deal with, yet I believe the "snowbally" nature of the game isn't due to more damage being around but due to people not really going for the defensive options in snowball reliant early game matchups. A lot of champions feel different too and you can't just play them the way you used to a patch ago.

And even then, the average game length of my game's around 25-30 minutes. https://www2.pic-upload.de/img/34313930/Bildschirmfoto2017-11-17um23.49.22.png

AD Bruisers are too weak as a class but others aren't AD Bruisers are the only class that is actually struggling as a whole, compared to Mages where control/artillery are just outperforming burst-oriented ones. This is mostly due to the fact of fervor having been the bandage that kept them viable, but that's nothing some tweaks to the runes won't fix.

It's more about specific champions being too strong than classes Ez, Sona, Yorick, there are a few outliners, but their peers in the same class category aren't performing too well. This might be mainly due to new runes as they have specific synergies or maybe they just perform better in this new meta that's evolving.

Leveling/rewards aren't really that satisfying Open-ended leveling never really appealed to me anyways, and not getting Blue essence at the end of a game kinda sucks. Nevertheless, reward boxes could be a bit more, well, rewarding imo.

And finally, a specific observation: https://www2.pic-upload.de/img/34313927/Bildschirmfoto2017-11-17um23.51.36.png

Morsekaiser is doing really well with the new runes and the systemic changes like removal of flat MR runes/more pen on his core items. He really benefits from the sorcery tree and resolve is a neat secondary path to give him that little extra bulk that allows him to brawl. This is all Mid-lane Morde too, my preferred way of playing him, so personally, I'm really happy with preseason so far.

But yeah, opinions differ. What are YOUR thoughts on preseason so far and how did it impact your mains?

31 Comments

AirKingNeo2 votes

I would say they need to undo active onhits like Yorick's Q from working on turrets or make them deal half bonus damage.

Objectives, in general, need probably +500-750 HP to outer and inner turrets, +1000-1250 HP to inhib/nexus turrets, and +500-3000 (based on level) HP to dragons/baron. Bot turret needs fortification again.

Other things involving teamwide gold need to be changed, like turret gold, definitely shut-down global gold, and assist gold should be reduced during the first 15 minutes and solo kill gold should be slightly increased. Basically less teamwide snowballing (which makes games feel onesided) and a bit more individual.

I also feel, at this point, damage creep has gone so far that it would be better if we just buffed defenses to compensate, which is probably just +3 MR and +3 armor across the board.

GayFluffyUnicorn1 votes

I defintely think everyone who haven't gotten it already should get defensive stats back. Especially MR. It's ridiculous how hard champs like rakan and soraka hit you because of the missing base MR. Hell on most my toplane bruisers i took MR per level for that midgame so it is actually more than 12 MR. Also armor should be adjusted i think.

Troll for Trump2 votes

Carried over from past:

  1. ADC-focused game
  2. Snowball, weak turrets
  3. Top lane irrelevancy

Expected of pre-season:

  1. Adjustment, testing, experimentation
  2. Higher unbalance to a certain degree
  3. Assassin dominance

What is unusual:

  1. Turrets are to be buffed
  2. Bruiser problem
  3. Ezreal breaking things already
  4. Assassins aren't actually doing super hot in-lane
  5. "tanks" are generally not being tanky enough, in proportion to the dmg change
  6. Runes are pigeonholing playstyles. You get to choose the "class" you want to play as based on the set-up, but there's not so much mix-and-matching. I think Riot wanted to simplify the system, but that leads to less customization
GayFluffyUnicorn1 votes

Don't know what "assassins" people are talking about. The only ones are the ones that have been too strong in s7 as well: Kha zix and Talon. Zed is still doing rather meh, Kata has been too strong before as well and now even better thanks to noone having MR, LB is a hot mess idk if it's worth talking about her. Rengar has seen some comeback that is true. Lee sin is doing well again. I think it's less of OGM ASSASSIN ONESHOTTING LEFT AND RIGHT and more: well AD champs are doing pretty well with the buffs to their base dmg. AD in general but despite what a lot of people are claiming on here mages are pretty gross right now even supports hit like a truck without those 12 MR. Atleast that is my perception in a lot of games and i think riot will need to give base MR back.

Troll for Trump1 votes

Assassins are being played more than usual, but not necessarily performing better. Also, Lee isn't an assassin. See point 4 on the "unusual part"

Mages as a whole don't tend to be gross. There's just always a few that tend to do good in most metas. Ori, for instance, could be the Darius of mages.

Dokueki Kenshin1 votes

I won’t comment on the rest of your previous comment, but I don’t necessarily agree with the pigeon-holing thing you’re talking about. For example, one of my favorite “fun” builds is ASAP Varus. It was pretty fun before, but Press the Attack has actually benefitted this playstyle quite well. I’m deliberately considering maining it in lane this season, but I’m gonna try running Lethal Tempo on it first to see the difference.

Troll for Trump1 votes

ADCs get the most variety out of the keystone system. But what's the difference between the keystone you choose for ASAP varus, and atk speed ADC varus?

You're still basically choosing between PTA and Lethal Tempo, and maybe fleet footwork. You're still confined to the on-hit precision ADC-class tree.

What about Q spam varus? You're locked into Aery or Arcane Comet (I'd imagine) and locked into the sorcery tree.

What I want is for you to be able to pick the playstyle without having to be locked into a tree, to allow for more flexible playstyles in-game. In addition, we probably need more than 1-2 options for each class in each tree, especially for non-ADC classes.

Dokueki Kenshin1 votes

Ah, I think I understand what you mean. I grant you that point partially, but keep in mind that there were honestly even fewer options in the previous system. If we’re talking efficiency in dealing damage, the ONLY choice was Fervor of Battle, for almost any build. Full AD Varus only could go Thunderlord’s to maximize burst; you wouldn’t proc the Movement Speed keystone fast enough with only Q poke.

I do agree that there could be more diversity, but I feel there’s more diversity with Runes Reforged. For example:

ADC Varus can honestly benefit from all three Keystones, depending on build/matchup.

ASAP Varus, while more limited, could choose Press the Attack or Lethal Tempo for more DPS, Aery or Comet for more reliable added damage or burst respectively, or he could even go Electrocute for more single target burst damage.

Full AD Varus could still go Aery, Comet, or Electrocute depending if he needs to go more poke or if he can afford to get close.

Also, part of what might be pigeon-holing champions might simply be that champion kits tend to synergies better with one particular rune. I still think it’s too early to tell right now.

Penns1 votes

Yorick Jax Irelia Pantheon JarvanIV MonkeyKing opie tho

Malicious Metal1 votes

Yorick: He got his base ad buffed, which allows him to double down on the Tri+Gage combo. Grasp got buffed and demolish really helps him too.

Jax/Irelia: They just loooove the AS from Precision and synergy well with press the attack.

Pantheon: Summon aery deals too much damage

J4: Ehh...I'd say he's in a reasonable spot, aftershock makes him really good at diving though

Wukong is weird, haven't seen the monkey yet but he does like snowbally early game metas, soo...

Penns1 votes

Then only half dem bruisers are weak tho.

I also dont enjoy playing vs Yasuo or Zed and minions with 22 armor xd I feel like AD champs are way better than AP... still lel

undesirable team1 votes

yorick can proc q on tower now j4 is too tanky for how much damage and cc he does

GayFluffyUnicorn1 votes

I mean jax and irelia just do less shitty than other bruisers tbh. They can use PtA and AS pretty well. Pantheon has been overpowered for way too long but "he falls off" so it is okay to not play league of legends as a melee toplaner for 20 mins. Jarvan pretty much carried over from last season except that more aggressive players have a stronger thunderlords now and can opt into aftershock and deal more dmg than before in going a tanky route. Wukong is really strong tho.

Elkington VI1 votes

I find with Trundle I have to rush resistances as fast as possible or I won't even be able to outduel an assassin in my own jungle. No room for any damage until maybe 3rd or 4th item.

It's very difficult to get everything Trundle wants with the new runes, which is what my old runes helped take care of. I imagine other bruiser players are currently facing the same problem.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

Game length Some people say games snowball too hard, but I have to disagree.

When i say games are too snowbally it have nothing related to game lengh... It just mean, the ones leading during early will win, after bot losing their tower... its just a struggle to lose the later...

It's more about specific champions being too strong than classes

I think riot should tune down most of keystone, numbers are to high.

Leveling/rewards aren't really that satisfying

i wont lie... I DON'T CARE. And i don't understand why most here cry about this, this has nothing to do with gameplay.

And finally, a specific observation:

normal games... unreliable

Queš1 votes

Poor Yorick dude.

AL0001 votes
  1. Get the champion that does well in lane
  2. push the lane and roam if necessary
  3. time of game reduced by 10 mins... almost impossible for them to comeback due to global gold/pressure.

20-25 mins is not uncommon to me... sometime 30 mins if we can handle... 15 mins could be happening... it was not cool tho.

One side win is painful because of global gold, pressure and teamfight.

Azadethe1 votes
  1. I'm still figuring it out.

I'm trying to work out a Evelynn main strategy, but tbh, I'm finding 1-2 non meta builds are actually carrying harder than the meta suggestions (I've seen Predator/Electrocute/Dark Harvest/Phase Rush Evelynns, and I've seen most people building Lich/Proto/Liandra/Death Cap.

I'm sorry..... for some reason, although i can perform well with the meta build and get the 50% win rate, i just can't get to 60-70% win using it. Proto/Lich is just so clumsy, and vs a lot of team compositions, it just doesn't scale that well AP -wise or utility-wise.

I'm scared to say what build actually is going to carry most, because other people will try to copy it, but wow.

I think Evelynn is in a FAR better place than pre patch

  1. Some champs are really sticking out as harder carries than the ones people complain about, and some of them are going to really face check old build metas when they realize they can now stack Muramana and Seraphs rapidly and on Steroids. i still don't know why a potential 93 AD item, or a 187 AP item is selling for 2400/2700g.

  2. Long game recoveries are possible.

VoraciousX1 votes

{quoted}

  1. I'm still figuring it out.

I'm trying to work out a Evelynn main strategy, but tbh, I'm finding 1-2 non meta builds are actually carrying harder than the meta suggestions (I've seen Predator/Electrocute/Dark Harvest/Phase Rush Evelynns, and I've seen most people building Lich/Proto/Liandra/Death Cap.

I'm sorry..... for some reason, although i can perform well with the meta build and get the 50% win rate, i just can't get to 60-70% win using it. Proto/Lich is just so clumsy, and vs a lot of team compositions, it just doesn't scale that well AP -wise or utility-wise.

I'm scared to say what build actually is going to carry most, because other people will try to copy it, but wow.

I think Evelynn is in a FAR better place than pre patch

  1. Some champs are really sticking out as harder carries than the ones people complain about, and some of them are going to really face check old build metas when they realize they can now stack Muramana and Seraphs rapidly and on Steroids. i still don't know why a potential 93 AD item, or a 187 AP item is selling for 2400/2700g.

  2. Long game recoveries are possible.

When I was playing PBE I was using Arcane Comet, Ultimate Hat, Celerity, Gathering Storm, Biscuit Delivery, and Magical Footwear. Is this anything similar to what you were doing?

Azadethe1 votes

On Eve? Heck no. Why would you want Biscuits on Eve? Magical footwear I could see, but I prefer sustain over +10 move speed. Arcane comet is a joke on Eve. Doesn't hit 33% of the time, and there are far better options.

Atm, Phase rush seems to be the Evelynn main rune. i see some higher elo Eves using Dark harvest, but that requires you to be able to use ganks correctly within 20 secs after a large minion kill, or you'll be pretty much useless until you have 150 stacks, which takes awhile.

Imo, Transcendence trumps Celerity. Your team will hate you for beinng slightly slower, but Transcendence just boosts Eve so much right now with her Q 195% effective scaling and 150% ult scaling.

VoraciousX1 votes

{quoted}

On Eve? Heck no. Why would you want Biscuits on Eve? Magical footwear I could see, but I prefer sustain over +10 move speed. Arcane comet is a joke on Eve. Doesn't hit 33% of the time, and there are far better options.

Atm, Phase rush seems to be the Evelynn main rune. i see some higher elo Eves using Dark harvest, but that requires you to be able to use ganks correctly within 20 secs after a large minion kill, or you'll be pretty much useless until you have 150 stacks, which takes awhile.

Imo, Transcendence trumps Celerity. Your team will hate you for beinng slightly slower, but Transcendence just boosts Eve so much right now with her Q 195% effective scaling and 150% ult scaling.

How can Arcane Comet NOT HIT? It hits 100% of the time you land your charm, and if you don't land your charm you're likely either gonna run away or one shot them without it. I don't even see a point in Phase Rush. There's no extra damage and with Eve it's either you kill them in one rotation, you don't kill them in one rotation and run away, you kill them in one rotation and die, or you kill them with one rotation and run away. Phase Rush only seems to be useful for one of those 4 scenarios. Your E also gives you move speed to back out. You don't need Phase rush to get your rotation off, and your ultimate is an escape tool as well as for killing, or a gap closer if you really need it(but the damage is so important you're not likely to use it for this unless you absolutely have no choice and an enemy is like 40% health).

Dark Harvest I can see, and I can see Electrocute, but I prefer the Arcane Comet because it's guaranteed extra damage so long as you land a charm and I get The Ultimate Hat, Gathering Storm, and Celerity out of it(10% cooldown is okay but the only real use for CDR is for your W and move speed is always a good thing, and you're not gonna use the second half of Transcendence as an AP champion in 95% cases and if you do you'll only have like 10% extra CDR as there's only 100% CDR total for AP casters and they're all unique, one is mostly for on hit builds, and 2 are support items, one is a mid laner specific item. Taking out Nashor's Tooth and support items alone that's 40% CDR from items).

As for Biscuit Delivery and Magical Footwear, they're personal preference. I like being able to farm out all of the jungle I can without having to back and those biscuits help in that regard, as well as allowing me to cast spells a lot more often(160 extra max mana at 12 minutes is pretty nice to me and it seems the best out of the other options). If you really wanted more damage in place of move speed and sustain in the jungle + extra spamminess, you could opt for Sudden Impact and Eyeball Collection though. I'm just not sure how much that's gonna do from level 6 on compared to extra move speed and something to help you early on.

As for Sustain vs 10% Move Speed, I see no option for sustain in the inspiration tree, and only one of your abilities is single target so the Domination healing runes aren't going to be that effective, nor is lifesteal from the precision tree, as you have no AD. If you wanted to be a bit more healthy you could go Overgrowth and Unflinching(as those seem to be best for Eve in the Resolve tree), but honestly I prefer the ones I have as she's not gonna get much more tanky with those runes and extra tenacity won't help her with no health.

Azadethe1 votes

  1. Evelynn is lucky to hit AND proc about 18 Charms a game if pro (less if not). Comet does less damage than an Electrocute, which is a sure thing, and also removes potential move speed you need to pursue or run away. Comet is just purely unreliable. Most kills actually come from E, not Q.

  2. Phase rush ensures that even when you are not charming (smart Eve's don't rely on it), you can stick to an opponent, or get away, because the burst is more than any runner can deal with. it doesn't need to do damage when you can guarantee that your entire chain will go off, or you can ensure your escape and not feed 8-10 kills. Find your damage elsewhere.

  3. Your E only gives you move speed if it's not Empowered. If you're in a fight long enough to get a second E off at its piddly range, you're doing something wrong, and probably feeding a lot of kills. It's VERY rare to be in a fight that long.

  4. You don't choose transcendence for 10% CDR. You choose it because every overcapped CDR = 2 AP. A Lich Bane + a Morellonomicon will get you 40% CDR. A blue buff will add 19 AP. After, that, you can get creative and get even more (Nashors gives 120 AP, attack speed, and procs on your E, which makes it more dangerous; I've had an Empowered E raid 80% of a target's life). In reality, A very Viable Eve build can give between 60 and 100 Additional AP on Eve with transcendence, and that's affected by a Death cap (Highest I've gotten in a ranked game is 1163 AP; My MINIMUM damage on ult was like 1,272).

In a more realistic game, I have about 500 AP, whereas your build has only 330.

  1. It's not 10% move speed. it's 10 move speed (Magical Footwear). it can be increased by move speed buffs, but it's sort of trivial.

Domination's Taste of Blood and Ravenous Hunger heal more than you think, and they do so IN COMBAT. Ravenous = 15% heals on single target damage (can be over 200 heals in 1 hit of E), and heals 5% on aoes. I usually go Eyeball Collection and Ravenous hunger at least, but I'll pick up Taste of Blood if my opponent is particularly fast at killing. Eyeball Collection + Transcendence + Gathering Storm = an easy 170 AP per game that you do not have on your build. That increases Eve's passive healing cap, her damage on all skills, and the other team can't heal out of it.

I'm getting to where I can 1v5 a team, if my own team allows it. What I mean is, if you have an udder crap int feeding team, atm the game snowballs so hard that Evelynn gets put in a position she can't carry out of. But, even if my team rushes to give the opponent a 24/3 lead, I can guarantee by the time it's over, I'm probably personally 14/5. Small satisfaction of picking off 2-3 champs while they try to finish the game taking your base, but aren't tightly grouped.

Something I do on Eve that sometimes is very effective: I do get my Lich bane, but I also get an Iceborne. Lich will proc on your primary target, but Iceborne will give you an aoe around them that slows. On transcendence, Iceborne = 40 AP, a nice chunk of armor, and it allows you to sustain fight long enough to get in more combos. Sometimes I even Frozen Ice, to deal with adcs like Lucian who can survive long enough to turn the tables on an Eve.

I know it sounds nuts, but try it.

VoraciousX1 votes

{quoted}

  1. Evelynn is lucky to hit AND proc about 18 Charms a game if pro (less if not). Comet does less damage than an Electrocute, which is a sure thing, and also removes potential move speed you need to pursue or run away. Comet is just purely unreliable. Most kills actually come from E, not Q.

  2. Phase rush ensures that even when you are not charming (smart Eve's don't rely on it), you can stick to an opponent, or get away, because the burst is more than any runner can deal with. it doesn't need to do damage when you can guarantee that your entire chain will go off, or you can ensure your escape and not feed 8-10 kills. Find your damage elsewhere.

  3. Your E only gives you move speed if it's not Empowered. If you're in a fight long enough to get a second E off at its piddly range, you're doing something wrong, and probably feeding a lot of kills. It's VERY rare to be in a fight that long.

  4. You don't choose transcendence for 10% CDR. You choose it because every overcapped CDR = 2 AP. A Lich Bane + a Morellonomicon will get you 40% CDR. A blue buff will add 19 AP. After, that, you can get creative and get even more (Nashors gives 120 AP, attack speed, and procs on your E, which makes it more dangerous; I've had an Empowered E raid 80% of a target's life). In reality, A very Viable Eve build can give between 60 and 100 Additional AP on Eve with transcendence, and that's affected by a Death cap (Highest I've gotten in a ranked game is 1163 AP; My MINIMUM damage on ult was like 1,272).

In a more realistic game, I have about 500 AP, whereas your build has only 330.

  1. It's not 10% move speed. it's 10 move speed (Magical Footwear). it can be increased by move speed buffs, but it's sort of trivial.

Domination's Taste of Blood and Ravenous Hunger heal more than you think, and they do so IN COMBAT. Ravenous = 15% heals on single target damage (can be over 200 heals in 1 hit of E), and heals 5% on aoes. I usually go Eyeball Collection and Ravenous hunger at least, but I'll pick up Taste of Blood if my opponent is particularly fast at killing. Eyeball Collection + Transcendence + Gathering Storm = an easy 170 AP per game that you do not have on your build. That increases Eve's passive healing cap, her damage on all skills, and the other team can't heal out of it.

I'm getting to where I can 1v5 a team, if my own team allows it. What I mean is, if you have an udder crap int feeding team, atm the game snowballs so hard that Evelynn gets put in a position she can't carry out of. But, even if my team rushes to give the opponent a 24/3 lead, I can guarantee by the time it's over, I'm probably personally 14/5. Small satisfaction of picking off 2-3 champs while they try to finish the game taking your base, but aren't tightly grouped.

Something I do on Eve that sometimes is very effective: I do get my Lich bane, but I also get an Iceborne. Lich will proc on your primary target, but Iceborne will give you an aoe around them that slows. On transcendence, Iceborne = 40 AP, a nice chunk of armor, and it allows you to sustain fight long enough to get in more combos. Sometimes I even Frozen Ice, to deal with adcs like Lucian who can survive long enough to turn the tables on an Eve.

I know it sounds nuts, but try it.

First, Phase Rush only works if you hit a target 3 times. You can't guarantee your entire chain will go off with a rune like that, because it already requires you to use most of your abilities. You have to hit your Q and then 2 of the 3 Qs after(this is hard in a minion wave or in teamfights), or be already on top of them(where you won't need phase rush because your E gives move speed already) and back out. E DOESN'T ONLY GIVE MOVESPEED IF IT'S EMPOWERED. Empowered E only increases damage, makes it a mini AOE, and pulls you to your target. The increased move speed is regardless of if it's empowered or not. I'm surprised someone who seems to play a lot of her doesn't know this.

I know your E does most of your damage, but in order to hit your E you have to charm them, considering most champions can one shot you before you one shot them without it unless you're fed out your ass. Nashor's Tooth would barely give you much without being full build because you're only going to "auto attack" once(E). As for the boots, you're also forgetting it's 300 free gold you don't have to spend on boots in the early game(my main reason for this. I don't have to spend money on boots and they also get 10 move speed. This saves me money which I will need in the early game for damage), and I don't think full build games are that common, usually at most it's 2-3 items. As for your transcendence thing. You're saying with your build she gets between 60 and 100 AP. We'll go with 75 then. 75 AP = about 153 extra damage on Evelynn. My 4 items + Comet = about 270 extra damage. This is of course not counting the % HP from her E, because there's no easy way to factor that in. Add about 75 damage from Nashor's on hit and you get 228. We'll ignore lich bane's damage because we both have it. I'd say they both are pretty good. I just don't see the point of Phase Rush as a rune for Eve as she already has move speed increase and she has to get her full Q off to proc it anyways in which case she's already likely done her full combo. I suppose it can be used to get away but you should be able to do that anyways.

One thing that is interesting is the Iceborn/Frozen Heart idea. I originally thought there were no real tanky options for Eve but you just proved me wrong.

Azadethe1 votes

  1. Each Q and an ACTIVATED Charm acts as a skill to proc. So Phase only takes Charm + 2 hits of Q. Or, W, E, R - run to safety and heal. Eve has technically 7 skills in her arsenal per cooldown. I've also found out that Whiplash counts as 2 hits, and since Eve Autos right after, that's a proc in itself.

  2. I was wrong about Whiplash. Went and tested it. The move speed is either or, but they do stack, and there are a ton of champs who have better move speed bonuses than Whiplash So it's worth noting. After using both on Mobis, I have 567 Move speed. Without Phase, it's only 497 (with Whiplash). It's also worth noting that Phase can enable other boots.

  3. You don't always start a fight with Charm. Sometimes it's better to Flash or Proto or Hexflash in to E, and them use 2 hits of Q and then use Allure, chase them for a bit, and then Q Charm mid fight. Sometimes a Flash E is all you need because they are 40% HP and an instant kill and you need your kit for the next target.

  4. Nashors at least gives 2 hits per fight because right after an E Eve auto attacks again on reset. And at 1.24 Attack speed or so, it's pretty strong. And it doesn't matter that it only hits twice; On a 500 AP build, that's 2 * 94 damage = 188 added to your kit. That's usually enough to guarantee your ult is going to kill if your kit didn't. And there are tons of times where having 500+ Move speed + Nashors means when you're on cooldown, you still have a weapon and can finish off that last 15% hp on someone. And, it's a 120 AP item with Transcendence.

I'm probably more focused on eliminating all counters than you are. But you're right in that more damage is viable. I just prefer to be the fastest person in the game and make use of her passive to reset.

VoraciousX1 votes

{quoted}

  1. Each Q and an ACTIVATED Charm acts as a skill to proc. So Phase only takes Charm + 2 hits of Q. Or, W, E, R - run to safety and heal. Eve has technically 7 skills in her arsenal per cooldown. I've also found out that Whiplash counts as 2 hits, and since Eve Autos right after, that's a proc in itself.

  2. I was wrong about Whiplash. Went and tested it. The move speed is either or, but they do stack, and there are a ton of champs who have better move speed bonuses than Whiplash So it's worth noting. After using both on Mobis, I have 567 Move speed. Without Phase, it's only 497 (with Whiplash). It's also worth noting that Phase can enable other boots.

  3. You don't always start a fight with Charm. Sometimes it's better to Flash or Proto or Hexflash in to E, and them use 2 hits of Q and then use Allure, chase them for a bit, and then Q Charm mid fight. Sometimes a Flash E is all you need because they are 40% HP and an instant kill and you need your kit for the next target.

  4. Nashors at least gives 2 hits per fight because right after an E Eve auto attacks again on reset. And at 1.24 Attack speed or so, it's pretty strong. And it doesn't matter that it only hits twice; On a 500 AP build, that's 2 * 94 damage = 188 added to your kit. That's usually enough to guarantee your ult is going to kill if your kit didn't. And there are tons of times where having 500+ Move speed + Nashors means when you're on cooldown, you still have a weapon and can finish off that last 15% hp on someone. And, it's a 120 AP item with Transcendence.

I'm probably more focused on eliminating all counters than you are. But you're right in that more damage is viable. I just prefer to be the fastest person in the game and make use of her passive to reset.

Thing is with Transcendence, it's not your full build or CDR that gives you the damage. It's every bit AFTER the 40%. A Morello + Nashor's would give you 20 AP on their own. After that you have to build more CDR for it to add to your damage. Most of the game you're only gonna have a 10% CDR buff from the rune, and I can't see you getting beyond 40% CDR unless you either got full build or snowballed so out of control that you didn't even need the damage from the rune. I tried your Transcendence build, and most of the game I didn't have the damage from it. It's more of a late game focused build for sure. I just sorta go for early damage/sustain and then late game damage from gathering storm.

In practice tool, my standard build gives (Runic Echoes mobis lich bane rabadons void staff gunblade)630 AP at 10-19 minutes(obviously this isn't gonna happen but it was just for testing). 641 with ghost(I go ghost for extra damage from Celerity + it helps me gank better early on when I don't have stealth). At 30 minutes that's 703 AP(from gathering storm). Your build(I'm assuming your standard build is Runic Echoes lich bane morello nashor's mobis and rabadon's) gives 690 at 10 minutes(40 AP from Transcendence. 720 if you go lucidity boots and that's 60 from Transcendence, well 59 according to practice tool). You also lose out on void staff which is pretty important imo. While you have more AP, vs Test Dummies who have 100 armor and MR your build does about 1.5k less than mine. All of your items give CDR so getting rid of them for void staff would lower your AP as well.

Overall I think our builds are just different playstyles but equally okay. Unless you're fighting tanks or offtanks whereas mine will do better. You should be able to one shot squishies with either build as a full combo from both does 4.4-4.5k from yours and 5.3-5.5k with mine on test dummies. Of course Eve has HP% shred but it should still one shot them as that's like 750 damage on them with my build not counting their MR.

One thing I'd like to note on your phase rush enabling other boots though. Other boots are available, but as Eve you want to roam a lot and that's why mobis are the ones that are suggested(as well as the most often used). Phase Rush doesn't help you to roam, so it's not going to enable other boots. You can still choose other boots with either build, but mobis will help you get to places faster. Phase rush is only for chasing, or escaping, not roaming.

Azadethe1 votes

{quoted}

Thing is with Transcendence, it's not your full build or CDR that gives you the damage. It's every bit AFTER the 40%. A Morello + Nashor's would give you 20 AP on their own. After that you have to build more CDR for it to add to your damage. Most of the game you're only gonna have a 10% CDR buff from the rune, and I can't see you getting beyond 40% CDR unless you either got full build or snowballed so out of control that you didn't even need the damage from the rune. I tried your Transcendence build, and most of the game I didn't have the damage from it. It's more of a late game focused build for sure. I just sorta go for early damage/sustain and then late game damage from gathering storm.

In practice tool, my standard build gives (Runic Echoes mobis lich bane rabadons void staff gunblade)630 AP at 10-19 minutes(obviously this isn't gonna happen but it was just for testing). 641 with ghost(I go ghost for extra damage from Celerity + it helps me gank better early on when I don't have stealth). At 30 minutes that's 703 AP(from gathering storm). Your build(I'm assuming your standard build is Runic Echoes lich bane morello nashor's mobis and rabadon's) gives 690 at 10 minutes(40 AP from Transcendence. 720 if you go lucidity boots and that's 60 from Transcendence, well 59 according to practice tool). You also lose out on void staff which is pretty important imo. While you have more AP, vs Test Dummies who have 100 armor and MR your build does about 1.5k less than mine. All of your items give CDR so getting rid of them for void staff would lower your AP as well.

Overall I think our builds are just different playstyles but equally okay. Unless you're fighting tanks or offtanks whereas mine will do better. You should be able to one shot squishies with either build as a full combo from both does 4.4-4.5k from yours and 5.3-5.5k with mine on test dummies. Of course Eve has HP% shred but it should still one shot them as that's like 750 damage on them with my build not counting their MR.

One thing I'd like to note on your phase rush enabling other boots though. Other boots are available, but as Eve you want to roam a lot and that's why mobis are the ones that are suggested(as well as the most often used). Phase Rush doesn't help you to roam, so it's not going to enable other boots. You can still choose other boots with either build, but mobis will help you get to places faster. Phase rush is only for chasing, or escaping, not roaming.

Oh i agree it's generally a late game build. Sometimes I'm vs a fed AD with lethality, so I actually break tradition and get both an iceborne and a lich bane or a Frozen heart and a Lich bane on transcendence, because Sometimes, sacrificing a little damage to make more plays is more rewarding than trying to end the game early and failing to do so.

Lich + Proto is a flash and burn build. If you rush a mobility only build with small AP, you may perform well, but if someone like Wu or various other Eve counters get fed, it's game over, very early, and you're never going to recover.

Some games I will go Celerity or Rush a standard build, if I know it's likely that team will feed be and they have no real scaling counters. But the second they put Ezreal, or Nasus, Darius, etc, I prepare for the long haul. I'll start out normal, but depending on how early game goes, I'll adjust which boots I buy or if I'm going to build in armor/CDR. Someitmes, I'd rather have a CDR item give me 40 AP than take a 70 AP item and get popped like a grape.

The reason Phase rush enables other boots is not because of the roam, but because of the escape potential. You don't soley have to rely on Ult out to be able to re-camouflage. You can you a standard engage and do it too, because by the time phase rush it out you're far away. Usually, a Lich Bane + Luden's Echo is enough to rely on for most ganks. This allows me to reset on some bad engages and recover HP, and go after it again shortly after, while my target is not recovering near as fast.

Sometimes I snowball really early. Sometimes Late. The only times it loses: Team feeds and gives up fast that a 5/0 Evelynn pre 7 can't carry them.

VoraciousX1 votes

{quoted}

Oh i agree it's generally a late game build. Sometimes I'm vs a fed AD with lethality, so I actually break tradition and get both an iceborne and a lich bane or a Frozen heart and a Lich bane on transcendence, because Sometimes, sacrificing a little damage to make more plays is more rewarding than trying to end the game early and failing to do so.

Lich + Proto is a flash and burn build. If you rush a mobility only build with small AP, you may perform well, but if someone like Wu or various other Eve counters get fed, it's game over, very early, and you're never going to recover.

Some games I will go Celerity or Rush a standard build, if I know it's likely that team will feed be and they have no real scaling counters. But the second they put Ezreal, or Nasus, Darius, etc, I prepare for the long haul. I'll start out normal, but depending on how early game goes, I'll adjust which boots I buy or if I'm going to build in armor/CDR. Someitmes, I'd rather have a CDR item give me 40 AP than take a 70 AP item and get popped like a grape.

The reason Phase rush enables other boots is not because of the roam, but because of the escape potential. You don't soley have to rely on Ult out to be able to re-camouflage. You can you a standard engage and do it too, because by the time phase rush it out you're far away. Usually, a Lich Bane + Luden's Echo is enough to rely on for most ganks. This allows me to reset on some bad engages and recover HP, and go after it again shortly after, while my target is not recovering near as fast.

Sometimes I snowball really early. Sometimes Late. The only times it loses: Team feeds and gives up fast that a 5/0 Evelynn pre 7 can't carry them.

I mean, I still have a late game. Gathering Storm ensures that. Your build has between 400 AP and 720 AP, while mine generally has 630-640, unless I need to build other items. Your build just doesn't come online until you get 40% CDR, and unless you ignore lich bane until later, you're gonna need to build at least 4 full items to make use of transcendence's CDR to AP conversion(3 of those being CDR items). As for Phase Rush's escape potential, I just never see a reason for it honestly. The move speed from E usually gets me out just fine. Also of course if you're facing anyone semi tanky you're just not gonna do well at all without void staff, in which with your build you either give up rabadons or just do no damage to them.

Azadethe1 votes

{quoted}

I mean, I still have a late game. Gathering Storm ensures that. Your build has between 400 AP and 720 AP, while mine generally has 630-640, unless I need to build other items. Your build just doesn't come online until you get 40% CDR, and unless you ignore lich bane until later, you're gonna need to build at least 4 full items to make use of transcendence's CDR to AP conversion(3 of those being CDR items). As for Phase Rush's escape potential, I just never see a reason for it honestly. The move speed from E usually gets me out just fine. Also of course if you're facing anyone semi tanky you're just not gonna do well at all without void staff, in which with your build you either give up rabadons or just do no damage to them.

Are you talking full builds being 630-640 vs 400-720?

if so..... no..... My base build generally has 530 or so by the time most eves have 330. If I don't need both an Iceborne and a Frozen heart, I can actually get 1190 AP without a Mejai's:

Tested the non Ornn version with 2 infernals and 2 clouds: 467 Out of combat move speed, 1349 AP fully buffed with Blue + Baron. I could probably reach 1500 in a game like that with Ornn. With tankiness, my AP is around 920 in a long game.

VoraciousX1 votes

{quoted}

Are you talking full builds being 630-640 vs 400-720?

if so..... no..... My base build generally has 530 or so by the time most eves have 330. If I don't need both an Iceborne and a Frozen heart, I can actually get 1190 AP without a Mejai's:

Tested the non Ornn version with 2 infernals and 2 clouds: 467 Out of combat move speed, 1349 AP fully buffed with Blue + Baron. I could probably reach 1500 in a game like that with Ornn. With tankiness, my AP is around 920 in a long game.

With the items I just used, and the runes you mentioned, it was those numbers exactly in Practice Tool(without dragons or anything else extra that would work on both since they're the same). Lich Bane Runic Echoes Morellonomicon Nashor's Rabadons and boots. With CDR boots that's 709 AP 0-9 minutes in. 10 minutes in(with gathering storm) that's 720 AP. Replacing Morellonomicon and Nashor's with a Frozen Heart and IBG(since you said you'd use both lich bane and IBG together I'm only assuming you'd replace those two) makes it 477 AP. So 477-720. This is without outside sources. With a Blue Buff you'd have 504-747 AP, but that's situational AP either way(Don't ask me how it calculated 720 into 747 from blue buff).

M0RDEKA1SER1 votes

Is the resolve tree actually working as intended for Mordekaiser? I checked out the runes you were using, particularly, Iron Skin and Revitalize. They aren't working for me. I just finished making a post about it, and didn't know how to private message you. Here is link.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/bug-report/ZjUoLOkc-yay-more-mordekaiser-bugs

Anonagon1 votes

I'm quite enjoying preseason on the whole, though that may have more to do with me picking up a new main of sorts than it does with the changes to the game itself.

After having talked about Evelynn a lot on here (mainly in response to salty old Eve players who wish she still had AD ratios), I figured it'd probably be good to actually the play the champion a significant amount so that I could understand and talk about the other problems people had with her (W shit, etc.) and I figured the preseason would be a good time to do so, especially since people on the first couple of days were insisting that assassins were busted.

I have really really enjoyed playing Eve this past week, and have been very successful with her. I have no idea how much my success with her has had to do with the preseason changes really - most people were saying she was very weak before the patch, but I didn't play her then. I haven't experimented a ton, mainly because I haven't felt the need to - I've been doing very well with fairly standard runes (Domination/Sorcery, Dark Harvest).

As for my actual main, Kled, he seems to be doing alright. Increased squishiness across the board is welcome for him since he starts off considerably more tanky than most champs, and Press the Attack does really well on him in a way that it doesn't for similar champions. However his (and many autoattacking fighters') existing problem of needing a massive lead to be able to touch tanks is worse than it has ever been. Since Press the Attack is a percent damage increase as opposed to Fervor's flat increase, Press the Attack is significantly worse against tanks and better against squishies. Its one of many reasons that top lane tanks are statistically dominating right now, even if their players insist they feel horrible. As much as I feel for players whose mains feel like garbage even when they are technically strong (I was once an Amumu main), I think tank mains need to calm down.

Do I think tanks need nerfs? The extreme outliers (Maokai, Rammus, and Ornn [who is massively underrated as well as significantly better in higher ratings]) definitely do, but I think for the rest of them, their winrates will probably go down as other players start playing more balanced team compositions again. However, I do think that tank items, specifically earlygame anti-autoattack options, do need to be toned down a fair bit. Tabi and Bramble Vest basically autowin a lane for a tank if they haven't fed a couple of kills yet.

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