Boards›Gameplay

If you nerf Teleport you need to adjust a lot of things too while you're at it

Malicious Metal··106 votes·5,272 views

So, teleport seems to be next on the chopping block, for mostly Pro play related reasons. The summoner makes it hard for lanes to get punished (be it mid or top) and makes game stale as you need to anticipate the enemy just teleporting behind you and completely screw you over.

But more than 99% of the players aren't on LCS level and a nerf to TP will impact top lane a lot more negatively than you might think.

Teleport is necessary in top for more than just "map impact" You need the summoner to be able to recall safely and not give up your tower the moment you leave it unattended. You need the safety it provides because the bloody Jungler just makes you, and excuse my french, his bitch otherwise. You need it to not waste so much gold and xp to the tower because getting back to lane is too slow.

And nerfing TP will make top lane even worse to play.

So, if you decide to nerf teleport you need to nerf a few other things: I suggest two things:

A) A Jungle retuning Make the Jungler actually have to take risks when ganking, be it by losing xp/gold in their jungle with faster respawn timers, let them not outlevel every solo lane and just waltz into top lane acting like they own the place or just make the Jungle mobs tougher.

And

B) Make crit items more expensive so that ADC powerspikes are pushed farther into the mid-late game and give the top laners more time to pick up steam and actually impact the game.

Just my two cents on the matter, simply nerving TP is going to have mostly negative consequences on top lane if you ask me.

67 Comments

Naramiel31 votes

Perhaps the fix would be (c) make it so towers don't instantly fall the second someone backs?

Cavesloth2 votes

{quoted}

Perhaps the fix would be (c) make it so towers don't instantly fall the second someone backs?

This guy gets it. Fix problems at the source, so ez. Well for everyone except Riot lols.

Shuriman Curator3 votes

{quoted}

This guy gets it. Fix problems at the source, so ez. Well for everyone except Riot lols.

Sadly, true though.

Critmaster Garen4 votes

{quoted}

Perhaps the fix would be (c) make it so towers don't instantly fall the second someone backs?

problem is also jungle camp. if youre forced to recall youre losing a lot of gold/xp even when the turret doesnt fall.

its even worse when you die once and have to stare at a grey screen for 20+ seconds in the early game. worst case you lose 3 waves of minions on top of your death until you make it back into lane.

this wasnt quite as horrible before they increased the early game death timers by 10 seconds in season 6.

these factors became part of the reason why tp became mandatory. because as MM pointed out, if you dont run tp and are able to return to lane without losing out on more than a hand full of minions after being forced to recall, the enemy jungler is going to abuse the shit out of it and camp your ass to hell.

SangreDeNoche11 votes

Or they could buff top laners movespeed. Maybe even make top lane give a speed boost like homeguard hahaha. That'd be nifty.

FCJAAAAGOOOO4 votes

That would be rad: all toplane towers offering a mini-homeguards until 20 mins haha.

Boulderox8 votes

I think it just needs more parameters, make it a longer CD when used on anything other than a tower. makes top lane use fine and makes pro play have to really debate whether to commit, and are punsihed hard for failing or canceling

Ifneth4 votes

This is a good idea. Or, how about giving teleport a range limitation until 10 minutes? Top laners could still enjoy surprise early TP flanks, but only midlane or by roaming.

Boulderox1 votes

that could work just as fine too, totally.

BloodbornS3 votes

Also Riot could give TP bonus range from base, so normal tp would have enough range to tp from top to mid until 10min and after that it would have the usual stats. With this change tp in pro play would be limited and yet every laner can take tp to return to their lane safely (bonus range from base)

Barcid2 votes

...... Isn't that already live? It goes on 240 cooldown or something when used on a tower, 280 on wards and minions.

I guess not. That was a change they added in Season 5 I'm pretty sure to make teleport competitive over ignite in lane. Pretty ironic place we find ourselves in nowadays...

Venomar6 votes

I'll give you credit, this is a creative way to mask a "nerf jungle/adc" post.

ShaolinToilet2 votes

All he does is verbal acrobats to get shit he doesn't like/likes nerfed or buffed.

GayFluffyUnicorn5 votes

It's the truth what would need to happen if we were to remove TP from toplane. It needs to happen anyways. It NEEEDS to happen. With a change or nerf to TP it would absolutely be necessary.

THE D1C6 votes

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/spongebob/images/0/08/Biojenkins.jpg

Back in my day (preS3) TP wasn’t the only summoner top lane

Edit: Also,

Jungler (even though I am low gold scum) I don’t think the jungle respawns are a bad thing as long as they are punished for them. If you’re getting ganked top and your jungler is not:

A: Top side to counter gank B: Bot side stealing all that sweet jungle

Your jungler is the problem not the jungle

I think the problem with Blue Side top getting ganked is Krugs sucks balls... like hard for 30 seconds for no reward...

The problem with Red Side Bot getting ganked is that Krugs sucks balls...like hard for 30 seconds for no reward...

Seriously tho, (when I am red side)

A. rather sit in top river bush for 30 seconds if your pushed top B. rather tour your blue jungle to get vision on your jungler for 30 seconds if we are pushed top or mid (and I know I can get backup)

than do fucking dumb ass fucking krugs at 3 mins or fucking any other time when there is anything else to fucking do than krugs

Cavesloth4 votes

[{quoted}](name=THE D1C,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hHc7Bz1A,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2018-02-15T01:47:58.866+0000)

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/spongebob/images/0/08/Biojenkins.jpg

Back in my day (preS3) TP wasn’t the only summoner top lane

Edit: Also,

Jungler (even though I am low gold scum) I don’t think the jungle respawns are a bad thing as long as they are punished for them. If you’re getting ganked top and your jungler is not:

A: Top side to counter gank B: Bot side stealing all that sweet jungle

Your jungler is the problem not the jungle

I think the problem with Blue Side top getting ganked is Krugs sucks balls... like hard for 30 seconds for no reward...

The problem with Red Side Bot getting ganked is that Krugs sucks balls...like hard for 30 seconds for no reward...

Seriously tho, (when I am red side)

A. rather sit in top river bush for 30 seconds if your pushed top B. rather tour your blue jungle to get vision on your jungler for 30 seconds if we are pushed top or mid (and I know I can get backup)

than do fucking dumb ass fucking krugs at 3 mins or fucking any other time when there is anything else to fucking do than krugs

Wow does this guy hate krugs or what?

On serious note though.... he's not wrong. They take waaaaaaay to long for what they give. It wasn't so bad last season when everything was much slower paced, but now, yeeash. Waste 'O time unless you have nothing better to do for 30 sec lols.

THE D1C3 votes

I missed the opprutunity for another fucking before the last krugs... but I ran out of time, was using my 30 seconds to do this... rather than do krugs....

Oh hey look at that same amount of accomplishment and reward I would of had if I did fucking krugs

Whew, I feel better now... Yeah I miss starting krugs like early S7 but agree the XP was 2 much at the time or S6 (for stun fist buff ‘heavy hands’ or something) or any of the previous seasons when it was just a normal 2 camp, but the fact that only the big monster gives any reward (outside of gold which off set by doing anything else like tax(if I earnerd it) or an assist or a kill. Starting ‘fucking’ krugs means get this little compensation for the big krug you have to then kill another 9 (3 mediums, 6 minis) and get not much more for the 25 seconds you’re there to clear the camp.

This is all if they don’t kill you cause you can only smite the biggest and are probably 40-60% hp leaving red(depending on who you are playing of course), when you actually need smite you’re fucked.

Rather pot, get some yummy red buff hp regen walking up the river and make that top laner run to the boards crying like hashinshin

Lil Homie busta2 votes

Back in the day, a ignite ghost Trynda/Jax/Garen could carry games because they didn't have to deal with 1K shields+heals key-targets and turrets wouldn't fall in one push early game. Nowdays we need tp to atleast participate in one or two teamfights or to protect our turrets from falling at 4 minutes.

Yep, krugs are bs, even when you scale at late game due to the delay of each krug

THE D1C1 votes

TP doesn’t have to be the impact spell. I think it having less need would create more variety.

Fiora with ignite would have sigbificant kill preasure and would probably draw a 2v1 top actually stop her, opening a oppruitunity for your team to take a 4v3 fight at Baron or Dragon or other objective. Makes more sense for TP to fall out of favor for a bit. Force some creativity... I mean they are taking away red smite forcing jungles into creative trinket choices (extra wards / sweeper / far sight)

Wanna know if their jungle hates fucking krugs too, boom far sight that bitch

LordGeovanni1 votes

[{quoted}](name=THE D1C,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hHc7Bz1A,comment-id=000700010000,timestamp=2018-02-15T03:02:04.749+0000)

TP doesn’t have to be the impact spell. I think it having less need would create more variety.

Fiora with ignite would have sigbificant kill preasure and would probably draw a 2v1 top actually stop her, opening a oppruitunity for your team to take a 4v3 fight at Baron or Dragon or other objective. Makes more sense for TP to fall out of favor for a bit. Force some creativity... I mean they are taking away red smite forcing jungles into creative trinket choices (extra wards / sweeper / far sight)

Wanna know if their jungle hates fucking krugs too, boom far sight that bitch

or better yet you can ignore top because fiora may 2v1 you and go bot and snowball.

THE D1C1 votes

If you ignore her, she will end the game... The only thing that can delay her is krugs, krugs delay everything. I was tempted to downvote you because you don’t hate krugs

LordGeovanni1 votes

[{quoted}](name=THE D1C,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hHc7Bz1A,comment-id=00070001000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-16T03:44:53.145+0000)

If you ignore her, she will end the game... The only thing that can delay her is krugs, krugs delay everything. I was tempted to downvote you because you don’t hate krugs

Why hate krugs when you can forget they exist

Sõna5 votes

Probably a huge ADC itemization change is coming soon. I would like to have a change of Crit cap in the range around 30%-50% if possible especially it's on-hit effect(undodgable).

IE + Statikk siv is the problem, two items interaction spike are too good, hit like nuclear bomb. as well as support's item like healing potential %, low cost high impact towards the game. I actually hope the stats like Crit hit and heal % could be stacked multiplicative like Tenacity. They have to either add more defensive item to block damages (but that might mess up the game into the worst) or change what current problem they have now by lower the overall set of item without changing the purpose of item.

SOOM4 votes

They only said they gonna look at it post 8.4 didn’t say nerf might just be a change [slayer-jinx-catface]

Malicious Metal37 votes

Nerf, change, buff, whatever it is, they should take the opportunity and adjust more game-flow related issues rather than just one issue.

Theorex4 votes

Riot only cares for "action" in the pro scene. Which to a understandable reason.

I think a few things need to happen for league to feel more solo queue carryable again. (We all want it, everyone knows that. We hate that feeling of being 20/4/9 or 2/6/35 and losing because your ADC was just bad.

I agree with making jungle camps spawn more often and dropping the current exp that they give. This brings back the farming junglers a bit. (In fact they might be a bit OVER tuned if they do this because of how many "buffs" they were given to make them relevant in a jungle that wasn't made for them.) Namely Master Yi, Shv, Xin (Note* not exactly sure if Xin falls under farming jungler anymore tbh) etc.

ADC's being the go to person to melt/burst everyone isn't the right call. But at the same time if we nerf ADC's itemization then it leaves up with another dilemma. It will shift over to Sivir, Ashe, MF, and Varus being strong. I am not against those 4 being strong. But I don't want one group of ADC's to be dominant over the other 13/14 adc's.
-Not exactly sure what to do about this.

Viability of the role. Its impossible for Bruisers, Tanks, and Damage tops to all be meta at the same time, but there shouldn't ever be a disproportional difference in pure innate chance of winning. I'm a solid advocate of no "enforced meta". It feels like every time we have an "enforced meta" its actually just a {Pick these 4-6 champions that fall into that group of champions}. If it were a true "enforced meta" then everyone in that {group meta} should be good. No way to solve this.

GayFluffyUnicorn4 votes

I wanted to make a post and it was supposed to say pretty much the same shit you said. Beat me to it. So listen to this man/woman/helicopter/trap rito. Pls do. I'd also say it takes a lot of strategic advantages it gives especially for bruisers. They are worse at teamfights than tanks and they barely beat tanks anymore in the splitpush so getting a push and TP advantage to win the numbers game is pretty important for any kind of bruiser to win a fight in the mid-lategame. Especially midgame where tanks become these unkillable behemoths you wanna avoid teamfights as much as possible without having to completely ditch teamfights and leave your team in a 4v5.

AirKingNeo4 votes

B) Make crit items more expensive so that ADC powerspikes are pushed farther into the mid-late game and give the top laners more time to pick up steam and actually impact the game.

Or just make ADC items less effective. Does anyone find it fun when 30-35 minutes comes and ADC rules the game? Does anyone who plays ADC find 15-25 minutes fun not being able to do anything? No, no one does. Find the middle ground because it mathematically exists.

SilentBomber3 votes

As a Top laner,TP is my last hope to have i small to 0 impact(can't have more) to my team.If they nerf that tooi swear i'll change role.

Shuriman Curator1 votes

{quoted}

As a Top laner,TP is my last hope to have i small to 0 impact(can't have more) to my team.If they nerf that tooi swear i'll change role.

I might just take my juggernauts mid, adapt if you will.

Primaquarius2 votes

Pros think they can pull sht off without teleport? Or is teleport ruining their style/profile montage?

4th3t0s2 votes

LCS Shen dilemma all over again.

Thegreatxiu2 votes

I think making crit items more expensive would be all that's needed. An important note here is that I don't play top lane but am a mid main who almost always takes teleport mid. Basically if Riot made the class of characters that do the most in the late game take a little longer to get to late game I feel like that'd be fair. From what I've looked at the "normal" adc build costs either the same or less than the other roles "normal" build. That one tuning bit I think would flatten out everyone's capabilities a little more and cause the jungler to have to move bot and mid and not be able to just punish top laners.

Northmund2 votes

Nerf that you described for jungler should be implemented right now. What feel from playing top, jungler ganks me constantly and still keeps up on level. Forcing me to flash, then play safe, then tp back and finally diving me, still being on the same level as my jungler who power farms.

FCJAAAAGOOOO2 votes

I'm probably the only guy on the face of the planet that disagrees with you.

How TP is used right now is boring and makes the game even more about botlane; taking it over actual gank evasion like Ghost or Exhaust means players focus on using it to either help cheese bot or to TP right back to top lane after a death as though nothing happened, and both of those are hardly plays imho. Ignite is at least there for more than just cheesing top lane but even lane bullies take TP nowadays as it's also useful for ganking bot which lane bullies are decent at doing. It deserves a change as it often just means top laners have 1 summoner each as both of them will either tp to lane at the same time or tp bot at the same time.

I run Barrier on Renekton every game instead, for winning duels and not dying to ganks. I also don't build boots most games and opt for Youmuu's + BC instead and am almost gold 3. I win lane very often and sometimes kill their jungler as well. Again, I'm probably the one and only guy on the face of the planet that would disagree with you on this lol.

GayFluffyUnicorn3 votes

See a good jungler would just punish you for not taking TP and steamroll you. There is a reason why TP is pretty much 100% mandatory.

Automated Riven2 votes

I want tp gone. It sucks having to run tp every damn game with no variety. That being said. You do have to be pretty careful if your gonna nerf it. Otherwise it's literally gonna be gank top at 3 minutes and take tower.

Ahri Baka1 votes

[deleted]

DorkunedAuras3 votes

Flash is universal and has been baked into the very fabric of the game at this point. There's little Riot can really do to it without wildly warping the game as a whole.

HeresyHorus1 votes

If summoner 12 got removed, Top Lane champ pool will be readuced to only Caitlyn Corki Ezreal Gnar Graves Jayce Quinn Tristana Twitch Vayne cuz everything else will be straight out trolling and auto lose.

Think about it, summoner 12 + Future Market is the only thing that keeps many Top Laners who want to play for fun and enjoy diverse gameplay from going AFK or straight out dodging games when they get HARD counterpicked ( Wow, such skill ... ) by above picks.

Think what above picks can do top against melees or mages when summoner 12 is removed.

Not counting the effect on Bot Lane here ...

It is just stupid ...[sg-poppy]

TheHappyReaperz1 votes

If TP is nerfed, just buff Top's towers. It should be a roaming tool, allowing a top laner the opportunity to make plays across the map, not something I need to get back to lane faster.

Rootlo1 votes

If they remove teleport then basically, first person to get ganked top loses their tower lmao.

Iffy Jarl1 votes

Faster respawn timers would be worse, it would make it so junglers can effectively ignore camps they don't like for longer and just focus on buffs. Also would reduce the impact of effective counter jungling like if Yi ganks bot and I rush to take his raptors and red buff that can really put him behind but if he backs after ganking takes blue then his camps are respawning in 30 seconds whats the point?

DedSilent1 votes

Make bruiser runes? HexTeleport Rune, shorter distance smaller cooldown?

Masked Pariah1 votes

Are you guys retarded? Teleport isnt just pro play. Its a fucking summoner EVERYONE uses. My Elo uses it, your elo uses it, and If u watch some bronze highlight reels then you can see that even THEY TAKE AND USE TELEPORT. Now you are telling me that teleport allows all of this --

"Teleport is necessary in top for more than just "map impact" You need the summoner to be able to recall safely and not give up your tower the moment you leave it unattended. You need the safety it provides because the bloody Jungler just makes you, and excuse my french, his bitch otherwise. You need it to not waste so much gold and xp to the tower because getting back to lane is too slow.

And nerfing TP will make top lane even worse to play.

So, if you decide to nerf teleport you need to nerf a few other things:"

YET IT DOESNT NEED A NERF? It literally is a multi-use summoner that allows so much to happen and honestly has too much power. It is one of the MAIN REASONS we have the dreadful tank meta that still consists to this day for top laners and why we dont see fighters that much in the top lane anymore and I know many of you people who are top lane mains complain about how you have to pick a tank because fighters lose to tanks because that out tank and damage you! Because of this Fighters are forced to take teleport along with the tanks just to keep up with them in the lane! Before Teleport was big in like season 3-4, the counter to tanks was that after you killed the him you could push in the wave and farm and recall making him miss farm which is need for the tank to get his efficient tank items and back then they used ignite to stop their sustain and add true damage that their resistance couldn't stop! Tanks also use this shit to farm up and quickly come back to lane with their very cheap items and smash your face in because they just roll over you and you cant hurt them back.

Also teleport isnt the get out of jail card for "I got ganked", buying wards and/or playing mobile champions to escape ganks before they even happen should be your get out of jail card if you use them and pick them.

Masked Pariah2 votes

Also teleport just allows top lane tanks to just get more gold to their already cheap and efficient items when they 4 man the enemy bot lane for actually fighting. Bot lane shouldnt only be able to fight when top/mid doesnt have TP. Its the main fucking reason WE HAVE THE INFAMOUS BOT LANE WHERE 1 SIDE IS 10/0 and the other is 0/10 AND ITS BECAUSE BOT LANE GETS GANGBANGED by 4 fucking men.

I used to hate bot laners but after actually listening to their side of the story on how its hard for them to deal with 4 people bot all because they went in to PUNISH A MISTAKE made by the other bot lane so now they should be punished by everyone and their mothers teleport bot lane to heavy cc them and kill them?

koshkyra1 votes

Wtf

Teleport is probably the least-frustrating summoner spell to play against

Karn Bishop1 votes

I have always been of the opinion that top lane should have a built in teleport to top tower on a CD which only the person flagged as the top laner can use, in the past this was not possible due to role selection not existing but it exists now so why not? from here you can just remove teleport.

Alternatively replace it with a spell called Gateway which spawns a miniature stargate and if you close the iris (kill it) it stops the TP and puts the spell on CD, the gateway should be revealed even if its in a bush and still retain the requirement of needing vision in an area to set up a stargate.

Auroramancer1 votes

They could just reimplement the lower CD on Teleport when used to TP to a tower. Would keep top lane safer versus extreme jungle pressure, while also preventing early top lane t1 tower takes due to minor mechanical errors in duels or ganks.

However, they should also increase Teleport's base cooldown. So maybe a minute reduction from current when TP'ing to a tower, and a minute increase from current when TP'ing to a non-tower. Makes map-wide Teleport plays more costly, while making Teleport investments on towers (particularly top lane) more valuable, addressing some issues of top lane's current meta.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Malicious Metal

The one buff Karthus NEEDS
Gameplay126 comments
464
votes
Viktor's Patch 6.9 entry shows that whoever worked on Vik has no idea who he truly is >_>
Gameplay224 comments
414
votes
I have achieved my final form!
Memes & Games62 comments
320
votes
There's actually an ingenious way to solve the whole FQC and Ap CDR crisis
Gameplay223 comments
280
votes
A champion should NEVER be made more clunky/less satisfying to play (Regarding Viktor's PBE changes)
Gameplay140 comments
279
votes
Malphite will be the best Camille counter
Memes & Games60 comments
257
votes