Why do Sejuani and Gragas have 100 and 110sec CD on ult at Rank 1?

6xjLGqOwcR·Apr 22, 2015·18 votes·2,727 views

While Amumu, Vi, Naut, Heca, Eve and Malphite whose ults can be compared to theirs have 140 or 150sec CD?

31 Comments

Teridax68Apr 22, 201519 votes

Sejuani and Gragas 's ults are less reliable, which is why they can be used more often. The ults you mentioned practically guarantee successful ganks due to being extremely effective, while having little room for error (several of those ults are point-and-click hard CC), and long initial cooldowns prevent those champions from snowballing the laning phase too hard in favor of their team.

Acidic PuddleApr 22, 20152 votes

Well not eve's, but I think that is the least of her worries at the moment...

KingKong2350Apr 22, 20154 votes

theres nothing wrong with eve. If they buffed her ult she would be broken

Remlap1223Apr 22, 20151 votes

Have you fucking played Eve? Her ult isn't the least of her problems. She's extremely weak, and has about as cohesive of a theme as Urgot does.

KingKong2350Apr 23, 20151 votes

I main eve. trust me, she doesn't need it. The key is 40% CDR. If you W to open up a fight and then R, E,Q, you have dropped the cooldown of your W to 6 seconds while youre sprinting around for 3 of those 6 seconds. That's assuming you only hit 1 champ. Now all you have to do is hit a champ with 3 more Qs in 3 seconds and W is up all over again. R is an awesome opener. I have top damage most games I play with her

Rinky DinkyApr 22, 20153 votes

Eve is actually doing well ever sense they buffed her this patch.

http://champion.gg/champion/Evelynn/Jungle (This is plat ranked+ only)

I think we need to focus on getting elise in a better place now

IcyPepperApr 22, 20158 votes

Eve, I admit is a mess and really UP in my opinion. I'm not going to even try to argue her case at all.

Vi and Naut can be reasoned with that their ults are point and click for the most part, but honestly I'd chock that up to power budget. Vi has two casts on her E and a dueling passive that shreds armor and increases her attack speed on her W, so part of her needs to be underwhelming during the early game. Naut has a shit ton of cc in his entire kit, including his autos, so I wouldn't consider his ultimate to be too underwhelming with its cooldown considering you don't need it half the time unless the target flashes away or you want to be even more of a cc monster during a teamfight.

Hec, Amumu, and Malphite are a bit harder to narrow down. I want to say power budget, but I can only argue that for Amumu and possibly Hec. Amumu's ultimate locks you down and deals damage, just like Sejuani's ultimate, and deals the same exact amount of damage. You could argue that Sejuani's ultimate gets a lower cooldown because it's a skillshot and I believe it has a slightly smaller radius and it has a lesser stun time (1.25 -> 1.5 -> 1.75 seconds at each rank) than Amumu's (2 seconds at all ranks). I won't argue about Malphite, because I plainly just don't know much about the champion to fairly judge his power budget.

Not going to even bring up Gragas. His ult appears to be a skillshot similar to Annie's, but... eh. Don't really know much about him, but I'm just trying to help the discussion to the best of my ability.

Champion SkinApr 22, 20151 votes

Malphite is really good or not so good depending on who you are against He is really good against AD and attack speed reliant champions because he has an % armor increase in his W and his E is an insane AS slow... And attack speed slows are a lot stronger then AS buffs (because AS slows/reductions are calculated based on total AS.. while AS items and buffs work off base AS)

Though of course quite a bit of his power budget goes to this so he isn't the best against other champions which aren't AD and don't use attack speed

Aych PiiApr 22, 20151 votes

I wonder if Malphite would be a good Riven counter, come to think of it...

Champion SkinApr 22, 20151 votes

Malphite would probably be able to beat or at least go even with Riven in lane and then in teamfights his ability to initiate fights and cripple the ADC and other attack speed reliant champions would probably mean he would be a lot more useful unless Riven snowballed somehow Or the team get clumps up gets hit by a CC and Riven is able to hit all 5 enemies with her QQQ and W and her R

VerxintApr 22, 20151 votes

Press E as Riven all-ins you. Most Rivens won't know how to adjust their inputs for the attack speed slow and end up failing their combo.

galdameshApr 22, 20151 votes

unless it's a riven who can animation cancel.

which I wish they would remove, that is the #1 reason riven can't be balanced

KingKong2350Apr 22, 20151 votes

Eve is not a mess at all

IcyPepperApr 22, 20151 votes

Most of her kit is fine, but her ult just doesn't make sense to me and it seems like they can't decide what to do with her W so she has sticking power to follow up with her ult.

Like I said, just my opinion.

KingKong2350Apr 23, 20151 votes

You use the W to open up. That's 3 seconds of speed boost on a 9 second cooldown. Now you R, then you E, then you Q. If you hit just one champ, that means speed boost is down to a 6 second cooldown after one rotation. Don't forget that you are sped up for 3 of those seconds. Now all you have to do is spam 3 more Qs in 3 seconds and its up again. Shes not for everyone. 40% CDR is key on her

Walter BrimleyApr 22, 20157 votes

[deleted]

B2B The CoachApr 23, 20151 votes

i sucks in skillshots, and i tried sejuani only at the last free rotation, and for what i saw her R is nearly impossible to fail. it's the easyer skillshot that i ever tried in this game

LankPantsApr 22, 20155 votes

Gragas 's ult has some of the highest fuck-up potential in the game. It's completely possible to end up saving a mobile enemy with your ult. To add to that it's actually probable to screw up his ult when engaging, as it's easy to knock a tank into your team since they tend to stand at the front.

As for Sejuani try actually comparing it to most of the ults you listed.

: Point and click unstoppable mobility potentially AOE disrupt and a strong, uncleanseable lock down on the target, has high damage potential.

Nautilus : Point and click potentially AOE disrupt with decent range and a single target uncleanseable lock down.

Hecarim : Unstoppable mobility with AOE CC that has a team-splitting effect.

Malphite : Incredibly fast unstoppable mobility with uncleanseable AOE CC with high base damage and scaling.

Evelynn & Amumu : Their ults CD is probably a bit on the long side. Eve's is for sure and I feel like Mumu could use a small drop in his ult CD

Champion SkinApr 22, 20151 votes

Yea Amumu probably could get somewhat lower cooldown after all it is almost a skill shot in that he almost always needs to land Q to be able to use it (or flash)

r11naApr 23, 20151 votes

: Unstoppable mobility with AOE CC that has a team-splitting effect.

Didn't know Hecarim was immune to CC.

Must have missed that change in the latest patch notes.

SpongebobIsLifeApr 23, 20152 votes

during his ult he is.

The Bíg TicketApr 22, 20153 votes

Gragas' is fine but Sejuanis should be higher.

MysterageApr 22, 20153 votes

If you play a lot of Gragas, you will understand. If you fubar up that barrell toss, you can literally fuck your entire team instead. Toss it too close? Yeah good job you just pushed their tank into your squishies. Too far? You might have just annoyed their ADC long enough for them to Flash/Tumble/Teleport right back into the fight, since now they know you have no ultimate left, and can pick your team apart. Sej unfortunately got hers nerfed to oblivion, so it having a short CD really don't matter.

SaiannaApr 22, 20152 votes

Why Rengar has 140s CD on ult at rank 1 when it's just lame stealth with no damage?

4nth0l0gyApr 22, 20151 votes

Huh. i guess i never really thought about that.

Puri Puri TaricApr 22, 20151 votes

Amumu ult roots every1 naut knocks up 1 person heca fears every1 eve ult sux and malph ult is fakking op just like vi´s ult

AbyssphereApr 22, 20151 votes

"Why does Leona have a 90 second ult CD when every other support has a longer one?" - there are lots of comparisons you can make like this. At the end of the day not every ult with AOE CC is supposed to have the same cooldown, because every champion is different.

Meep ManApr 22, 20151 votes

They are less consistant.

yukonlApr 22, 20151 votes

Amumu's is fairly easy to hit, Naut's is targeted, Vi's is targeted, Malphite's might as well be targeted because you honestly can't dodge it without a well timed blink, Eve is just in a not so good spot, and Heca's kit is just really good in the first place.

Sejuani and Gragas have lower cooldowns because Sej's is a rather slow moving projectile that can be dodged given you do it right and your team isn't a grouped target. Gragas' ult can backfire/completely fuck up.

I am THE DariusApr 23, 20151 votes

Sejuani's ult starts off at 130 seconds at level 1

Source: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Sejuani

To answer the main question though is that it's due to the reliability of the ultimate's .

Sypher The PoroApr 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

While Amumu, Vi, Naut, Heca, Eve and Malphite whose ults can be compared to theirs have 140 or 150sec CD?

: Skill shot that has to land in the center to stun. : Miss and you just gave them a free escape.

Amumu : Push for INSTANT huge AoE root. : Single-target knock-up designed to get her to the enemy carries. Nautilus : Single-target knock-up. Evelynn : Peace of crap, ult is pretty much just a slow. Malphite : Huge AoE knock-up and is extremly hard to dodge. ( Fizz laughs )