This board would be so much nicer if people learned to detach personal feelings from their arguments

Malicious Metal·Feb 20, 2018·68 votes·2,534 views

Every now and then I skim through the gameplay boards to see what people are currently dissatisfied with. And every thread seems to be the same, with you literally being able to taste the salt and hear the angry tone the thread was written in. The comments around here aren't much better either, with people resorting to anecdotal evidence, calling people out and overall being just nasty to each other.

These boards should be about discussing gameplay, and frankly discontent SHOULD be a part of it since most of these threads do have very valid points. But the overall tone of it is just so overwhelmingly insert buzzword here that reading them just isn't pleasant and it doesn't really help provide a professional atmosphere that promotes actual discussion rather than the same salt-fuelled arguments.

Tl;DR People should learn to argue without taking everything so bloody personal

//rant

75 Comments

Dope SoloFeb 20, 201834 votes

Salty post about other people's salt. Please detach your personal feelings from this argument. thanks

MelledoneusFeb 20, 201814 votes

Salty comment talking about salty post about other people's salt. Please detach your personal feelings from this argument. Tanks.

Dope SoloFeb 20, 20184 votes

Touche'! I honestly didn't see that coming.

DeusVultFeb 21, 20183 votes

Salty moderator coming into a thread about a salty post about other people's salt, to tell those people not to act salty. Please detach your personal feelings from this argument. T. Hanks

https://imgur.com/Gka9YM3

Skins ProjectFeb 21, 20181 votes

Tanks indeed (I played shen yesterday)

AhristocatsFeb 20, 201818 votes

i told it to a mod and will tell it here posts that are made to vent out frustration should not be allowed to be posted

if you don't talk about design, if you don't talk about balance, your post should be flat out be removed

TheThundersRoarFeb 20, 201811 votes

They are discussions about balance, but they're usually rage-fueled.

I come here after finishing a game. I'm probably pissed about how some champion whooped my ass and is OP. Maybe I can put together a coherent thread about how some mechanic or trend is ruining the game, but at the end of the day I didn't make that thread because I had an epiphany. I made it because I got rekt.

I'm pretty sure most threads about balance here are like that.

I usually delete my threads in 2 mins once I calm down, but I'm guilty of leaving it up if I left it overnight and it went +50. I doubt it's much different for most threads like that here.

Teridax68Feb 20, 201811 votes

This exactly. I think it's more or less fine to feel angry about something (and this can in fact be a good drive), but that anger is useless to us all unless it is being channeled constructively. I've seen perfectly healthy threads get removed because they were on the wrong sub-Board, but have also seen many threads stay on Gameplay even though they had pretty much nothing to do with the space, and so only because we were all collectively used to Gameplay having venting threads (and I've been guilty of this too). We need to exercise much stricter standards of quality upon ourselves, and have zero tolerance towards posts that only aim to stir the pot or rehash hate directed towards Rioters, and contribute nothing to positive discussion. Even in the case of mixed replies that feature some constructive elements, but also a lot of venting, we should still enforce a policy of mutual respect and civility. None of us are perfect on here, but with just a little more effort, and a little more empathy, we could do a lot better.

Velzard of KozFeb 20, 201828 votes

posts that are made to vent out frustration should not be allowed to be posted

I am sorry I have to be the dick but can you imagine how many of your posts would be removed? While you try now and then to bring up actual point, you write a lot of these from frustration (like the one questioning Fiora's innate regen stat when she is draining and has heal on Passive sounded quite frustrated) or you outright circlejerk (like one of your Tristana posts a long while ago).

The moment I saw the title of the thread and who wrote it I expected this thread will basically be "There's so many posts that should be deleted because they are shitposts, but not mine of course". Wasn't disappointed.

InTheoryFeb 20, 20188 votes

If we did that we could also just remove him from the boards because their aint nothing left of him.

AirKingNeoFeb 20, 20183 votes

Good. Get rid of posts that are 80% biased from initial reactions.

Gameplay Boards should be a serious discussion.

GelmousFeb 20, 20189 votes

those "i've got my ass kicked in a game so something must be wrong with balance" posts shouldn't be allowed

saltranFeb 21, 20181 votes

I gave a triple kill to Draven at min 6 and now he has dmg rito help pls.

JofeyyFeb 20, 20189 votes

~~This board~~ The World would be so much nicer if people learned to detach personal feelings from their arguments

FTFY

no to toxicFeb 20, 20183 votes

This world doesn`t mix emotions with arguments and see what is has done for us https://images3.alphacoders.com/659/659506.png

CosnirakFeb 20, 20188 votes

This board would be so much nicer if people learned to detach personal feelings from their arguments

I completely agree! Now please tell Rubick this so we can stop getting threads like the one he made around the same time as this thread.

DracocrashFeb 20, 20183 votes

call me crazy but the guy actually supports his arguments with valid premises and facts.

These are the kind of threads I like, even if I disagree with them.

CosnirakFeb 20, 20185 votes

Are you trying to tell me Rubick "detach[es] personal feelings from their arguments"? Cause I can link you... every thread he's ever made that proves otherwise. :p

DracocrashFeb 20, 20182 votes

I'm not going to deny, everyone makes bad posts, even me.

But I'm discussing the quality of argument here.

Some arguments are personal/anecdotal/circlejerked and the rest are not. He definitely comes off as rude at times, but most of his threads I see, have some sort of factual evidence to back them up.

Like I see threads like this -> NERF FIZZ CUZ HE ULTED ME AND ONE SHOT ME! (WHILE I WAS STANDING UNDER HIS TURRET WITH MY CC ON CD.)

They trigger me to no end. Sure, I'm open to the idea of fizz being overpowered, maybe he is, maybe he isn't. But I need facts, arguments, numbers.

What I don't need is "ur bronze", "u main X champ ur biased", "ur stupid if u cant see X is op without an argument".

Perhaps I am biased because the last 3 threads I saw(by rubik) were very well written and reasoned, out of the many other shit posts I saw along with it on the front page. That could be a possibility.

I think personal feelings play a role in every ones arguments, even myne right now, but arguments BASED on personal feeling and nothing else is what irks me.

CosnirakFeb 20, 20181 votes

But I'm discussing the quality of argument here.

I'm not. I'm discussing the title of the thread.

DracocrashFeb 20, 20182 votes

Perhaps we both have different interpretations of this thread

These boards should be about discussing gameplay, and frankly discontent SHOULD be a part of it since most of these threads do have very valid points.

CosnirakFeb 20, 20182 votes

I mean... it's the title of the thread.

Also:

But the overall tone of it is just so overwhelmingly insert buzzword here that reading them just isn't pleasant and it doesn't really help provide a professional atmosphere that promotes actual discussion rather than the same salt-fuelled arguments.

That is precisely what Rubick does.

AhristocatsFeb 20, 20183 votes

okay

so where did i use my feelings as an argument? recently i talked about how fair i felt tristana was, but the argument wasn't "i feel like this therefore i'm right"

the argument was that she gets massive invisible power from her ult because she's allowed to queue up a crit AA at the same time, just like how vayne could do it before

the difference between you and me, or the boards and me is that my arguments are never ad hominem, my arguments are never my feelings my arguments are always stats, patch notes, logic just like when i said kog should not get his autoattacks buffed because it will make him cancer and unbalanceable

you talked about linking every single thread i made

but you didn't do it i can wait until my death, and that's a very long time go ahead

CosnirakFeb 20, 20183 votes

But the overall tone of it is just so overwhelmingly insert buzzword here that reading them just isn't pleasant and it doesn't really help provide a professional atmosphere that promotes actual discussion rather than the same salt-fuelled arguments.

I do not disagree with you that Trist shouldn't be able to do that. I still downvoted your thread, I still downvote all of your posts that I see. I still hate the way you talk on the boards and wish you would go away forever. I'm not criticizing your point, I'm criticizing your presentation and form.

Are you claiming that you "detach personal feelings from [your] arguments?" Because if so... man you need to reread your own words. A lot.

AhristocatsFeb 20, 20183 votes

I present arguments like anyone does on this boards i do not do a single thing that is special except arguing

you want to downvote all my posts? feel free to do so i won't leave the boards, i'm here to talk about balance and design for my favorite game that i chose to play over Dota and HON you hate "the way i talk on the boards" but i don't insult a single dude on the boards unlike all of you who do it regularly i have been permabanned before and since then learned to stop agressing people

but you can all do it and you only get a single warning not that i mind anyway, the only thing that matters to me is being right, and if you're not criticizing my point your post is irrelevant to me then because it's the only thing i research

your post is actually an example of what's wrong with the boards no one cares about criticizing points anymore, they only downvote whoever they want, and do a bunch of subjective posts about frustration

CosnirakFeb 20, 20187 votes

I present arguments like anyone does on this boards

No you do not.

i do not do a single thing that is special except arguing

I never said otherwise. Yes this is very different from the line just above.

you want to downvote all my posts? feel free to do so

I shall and I don't expect that's going to change any time soon.

your post is actually an example of what's wrong with the boards no one cares about criticizing points anymore

Are you criticizing me for not criticizing your point that I said I agree with?! [zombie-brand-mindblown]

HalcyonDwellerFeb 20, 20185 votes

Dude what the actual fuck am I reading?

Stop picking fights with the dude. Announcing your intention to downvote them serves absolutely no purpose other than to antagonize them.

And don't willfully misinterpret their words. They are probably referring to how people nowadays would rather sling mud at one another than address one-anothers' actual points.

CosnirakFeb 20, 20183 votes

Stop picking fights with the dude.

I'm not picking fights with him. He responded to my post on this thread first. I asked MM to do something, someone else responded, I responded to that, THEN Rubick responded.

Announcing your intention to downvote them serves absolutely no purpose other than to antagonize them.

I did not announce my intention. I stated a thing I already do. And I did so for a valid reason that was not to pick a fight.

And don't willfully misinterpret their words.

I'm not. So ok?

They are probably referring to how people nowadays would rather sling mud at one another than address one-anothers' actual points.

I'm well aware of that. My point still stands that Rubick's threads and comments are extremely abrasive, sensational, and as the OP of this thread put it "the overall tone of it is just so overwhelmingly insert buzzword here that reading them just isn't pleasant and it doesn't really help provide a professional atmosphere that promotes actual discussion rather than the same salt-fuelled arguments."

HalcyonDwellerFeb 20, 20183 votes

{quoted}

I'm not picking fights with him. He responded to my post on this thread first. I asked MM to do something, someone else responded, I responded to that, THEN Rubick responded.

I did not announce my intention. I stated a thing I already do. And I did so for a valid reason that was not to pick a fight.

You mean this? "I still downvoted your thread, I still downvote all of your posts that I see."

Yeah that's antagonistic.

I'm not. So ok?

I'm well aware of that. My point still stands that Rubick's threads and comments are extremely abrasive, sensational, and as the OP of this thread put it "the overall tone of it is just so overwhelmingly insert buzzword here that reading them just isn't pleasant and it doesn't really help provide a professional atmosphere that promotes actual discussion rather than the same salt-fuelled arguments."

If you were well aware of what they meant but you asked if they meant something else then you are indeed willfully misinterpreting it. You knew what they meant but you made an off-topic comment about something being ironic when it's not ironic at all in the context of it's true intention/meaning.

CosnirakFeb 20, 20181 votes

Yeah that's antagonistic.

Considering his "I don't care if you disagree" stance I don't think it really is. Not the point anyways. The point is that I didn't say that to start a fight, I said it to make it clear to him that no matter how true his point may be, no matter how much I agree with it, if he's going to present it so terribly I'm still going to downvote it.

If you were well aware of what they meant but you asked if they meant something else then you are indeed willfully misinterpreting it.

And precisely where did I do that?

You knew what they meant but you made an off-topic comment about something being ironic when it's not ironic at all in the context of it's true intention/meaning.

Where? I have no idea what you're talking about.

HalcyonDwellerFeb 20, 20182 votes

Nope, I see what's going on here. I'm out, seeya.

CorvidFeb 20, 20186 votes

Come on metal, 90% of your mordekaiser posts where full of your personal salt.

EedatFeb 20, 20185 votes

This ~~board~~ world would be so much nicer if people learned to detach personal feelings from their arguments

Ftfy

In all seriousness, you're kind of asking the impossible though. That just not how humans function.

rework trundleFeb 20, 20184 votes

This is why I like to browse r/summonerschool. People are asking for help to beat a certain champ rather than complaining about them being supposedly op.

BALDG1VEN BOOMERFeb 20, 20184 votes

If I got a dollar for every “I feel” argument I’d be rich.

xelakerFeb 20, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h6notuam,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-02-20T12:23:44.778+0000)

Every now and then I skim through the gameplay boards to see what people are currently dissatisfied with. And every thread seems to be the same, with you literally being able to taste the salt and hear the angry tone the thread was written in. The comments around here aren't much better either, with people resorting to anecdotal evidence, calling people out and overall being just nasty to each other.

These boards should be about discussing gameplay, and frankly discontent SHOULD be a part of it since most of these threads do have very valid points. But the overall tone of it is just so overwhelmingly insert buzzword here that reading them just isn't pleasant and it doesn't really help provide a professional atmosphere that promotes actual discussion rather than the same salt-fuelled arguments.

Tl;DR People should learn to argue without taking everything so bloody personal

//rant

Beep boop bee bop. Humans are not robots. Emotions are a big part of enjoying/disliking gameplay. Would the boards be better if everyone left their bottom of the barrel, crusty barnacle attitude at home? Probably, but that will obviously never be the case.

This is leaning dangerously towards the Star Wars problem that people are "too passionate" about something they love. People spend hours on top of hours playing League and have the right to be grumpy if their quality of gameplay is low. If you get a piece of fruit and there's a big ol bruise on it, would it be ok to get mad at the store for selling dumpy fruit? Sure, maybe not the best choice, but it's certainly not outrageous to be angry about it.

HalcyonDwellerFeb 20, 20182 votes

Generally speaking I agree with you, but there is a big difference between getting angry at the store vs screaming incoherently about the store.

People don't call the store up and ask them to stop bruising the fruit, they just go on a page long monologue about how the store is corrupt and ruining everything we used to love about produce. There might be one word hidden somewhere in there about bruised fruit, but trust me it's small as fuck and was probably said under their breath rather than with proper volume or emphasis.

Tychusfindlay918Feb 20, 20183 votes

So you have nothing with which to contribute regarding the actual gameplay balance of League of Legends?

In any case I congratulate you. Your status has allowed this ironically emotional rant about people ranting to reach the top of the gameplay boards even though it has absolutely zero connection to gameplay balance.

Jet SettFeb 20, 20183 votes

Remembering all the emotional Mordekaiser/top lane posts, I agree with you. But take some of your blame too.

DracocrashFeb 20, 20182 votes

I agree. But I wouldn't say its necessarily a problem with the boards.

Sometimes you can find really humane and civil arguments that leave you satisfied with a new perspective on a champ.

sometimes you can find people who are extremely close minded and refuse to acknowledge issues/put words in other peoples mouths/act like babies

You will find this in real life as well, people who you just cannot disagree with without triggering and people who you can enjoy debating with.

the whole world would be a better place if people knew how to set aside their feelings when rationalizing arguments, but its not.

For example - There will be people who deny climate change because of their political stance, even though they are smart enough to comprehend data.

So yeah, while I do agree with you; it's simply not possible for this to happen. But that doesn't mean we can't try take individual responsibility to stop ourselves from doing such things

SammystormFeb 21, 20181 votes

I agree with your post but you use a very bad example. Very few people don't believe in climate change. A lot of people don't agree on the impact on climate change. Then another large group of people think that environmental laws can be good but are often too restrictive and don't have a meaningful impact on climate change. Basically you are using a stereotype that is put forward by the democrats. Which is just as bad as republics stereotyping democrats in different areas. Basically this type of thinking is a big reason why the country is so divided. It takes out the nuances and enforces an "us vs them" mentality.

DracocrashFeb 21, 20181 votes

I have not mentioned any political party in my example, and I have not mentioned a number either. I feel like you are being a bit presumptuous.

The example was to get across the fact that emotions from political views leak into unrelated problems that leads people to ignore certain facts or look at problems from a biased lens.

I can definitely see why you might have thought what I said, but I can assure you, my example was solely meant to be an example and not any form or propaganda. I don't live in the US so my understanding of your politics is very limited.

Troll for TrumpFeb 20, 20182 votes

Emotions and being personally attached to something is part of an argument.

Whether or not you like that is irrelevant.

I can literally feel the salt and anger coming from this post too; another post crapping on Boards because it doesn't line up with how the OP envisions it to be.

SammystormFeb 21, 20181 votes

Anger is not usually a good argument which is what most balance posts usually are. This post has emotions and he seems to be personally attached to the idea as well. Which ironically is exactly what you say makes a good argument right before you critique his post. You then make a comment about how the post doesn't line up with his visions of gameplay even though his post doesn't hold up to your visions of gameplay. Because of how ironic your post is your criticism rings hallow.

Troll for TrumpFeb 21, 20181 votes

Anger is not usually a good argument which is what most balance posts usually are. Which is what this post is as well. Anger.

Which ironically is exactly what you say makes a good argument right before you critique his post.

I know. Because I wasn't critiquing his post; I was saying that his post was hypocritical because it shared the same emotional attachment and anger found in other posts. You would know that if you actually read what I wrote.

My "criticism" holds water.

SammystormFeb 22, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ðownright Darius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h6notuam,comment-id=001200000000,timestamp=2018-02-21T06:59:10.666+0000) I know. Because I wasn't critiquing his post; I was saying that his post was hypocritical because it shared the same emotional attachment and anger found in other posts. You would know that if you actually read what I wrote.

Ok here is the thing. You "saying that his post was hypocrital" is critiquing his post. I don't know you so I might be missing emotions but it does seem like this post and the last one were sarcastic at the least angry at the worst.

Troll for TrumpFeb 22, 20181 votes

If I wanted to critique his post, I would do it in a more obvious and aggressive manner, as well as spend less time on one aspect.

All I'm saying is his post is hypocritical.

AgeOfTheMageFeb 21, 20181 votes

I used to come hear after getting obliterated by x champion, nowadays I don't, but I remember making so many salt posts that never got upvotes.

KinnikukoFeb 21, 20181 votes

Welcome to 90% of forums, well at least the ones I’ve visted

FixHealsRemoveGWAug 21, 20181 votes

These boards should be about discussing gameplay, and frankly discontent SHOULD be a part of it since most of these threads do have very valid points.

Discontent actually doesn't belong here at all. If you don't like something you need to rationalize it and only then you can have a reasonable discussion.

So if you hate champion A or ability B because you hate it. it doesn't belong here.

People are just taking there discontent or whatever and USE it AS arguments, all the fucking time and it's so pointless.

Discontent can be your motivation to talk about a topic but it can't be THE TOPIC.