Should Yasuo have a resource?

Shroom Junkie··2 votes·965 views

I mean, really, he's Yasuo. He can literally just spam his Q and poke like hell while everyone else has to manage their mana(except obviously resourceless champs). He can also dash-dash-dash without a single thought besides possibly dashing into the wrong situation. And, without enough resource, he could die due to not having a wind wall to throw up.

I get that he has his little wind thing, or whatever, for his shield... but it just seems kind of unfair, that Yasuo, who has a hard CC AOE knockup, and tons of damage with that, multi-target basic attack(and extra damage), and an initiate ult that can deal 400 damage PLUS 150% bonus AD ratio to an entire team if positioned right, and a wind wall that makes most ranged champs obsolete unless they get up close to Yasuo, which is a terrible idea. Oh and major farm denial to ranged as well. And his abilities have 0 risk. He just spams them basically, and with his Q cooldown scaling off of attack speed, its even worse.

I don't know, maybe I'm just a noob, but considering Garen generally does less damage than Yasuo and he doesn't have a shield, nor any hard-CC(unless his silence is considered hard-CC), yet Yasuo can spam his abilities MORE than him(due to ridiculously low cooldowns['sides maybe his w which last awhile anyway]), it just doesn't seem right.

EDIT: I got a little idea. To punish ability spam, but still allow it, and keep his passive shield, Yasuo would use his wind to use his abilities(and remove the wind gain from dashing). It would make sense, right? He uses wind for all his abilities anyway, why not make it use the resource? It would also allow for him not to have his shield when HE'S the initiator.

24 Comments

AlphaKappaPika3 votes

gonna copy this so everyone who thinks yasuo is op in lane knows how to counter him:

Hi, Plat 3 main here, let me see if I can help.

There are a few tips that people already know about facing a Yasuo; poke his shield off with autos, he's weakest right after his tornado is gone, and he's weak to ganks. I'd like to go into more detail.

The key to beating a Yasuo in lane is proper minion management, and proper management is different depending on whether you're a ranged or melee champion. As a ranged champion, you want to keep the wave in 1 of 2 places depending on Yasuo's health relative to yours. If Yasuo is ahead or even, you want to keep the wave frozen a bit outside of your own tower, so that he has to go into tower range to order to hit you. You can basically do whatever you want to him if the wave is in this spot because you can simply retreat into tower range if he tries to go onto you. However, if you're ahead of him in health, you want to start a slow push, so you can poke him whenever he tries to CS and you'll have a buffer of minion support if he tries to all in you. In this case, he can't do much either.

For a melee champion, you want to slow push pretty much all the time. Yasuo is extremely vulnerable to being all inned by melee champions when he's trying to CS, and a good Yasuo will try to do a slow push of his own to discourage his opponent from attacking him. One important thing to understand is that while enemy minions are oftentimes Yasuo's best friends since he uses them to dash, they are also one of his biggest weaknesses since he's required to tank them in order to trade. If you can bait him into tanking alot of minions with some kind of defensive ability like an ori shield, you can very easily come out ahead in trades, provided you don't panic, keep autoing, and hit some extra free damage on him when he tries to get out.

Generally speaking, a Yasuo will always want the wave in 1 of 2 places. He either wants a slight minion advantage on his side so he can get free opportunities to poke with Q, but not so many more minions that the wave gets frozen outside the enemy tower. A good Yasuo will bait you into hitting minions with AOE abilities to push the wave back towards him if it starts to get too close to tower, allowing him to be aggressive again. The other position is for when Yasuo has a lead on his opponent; he will want to freeze outside of his tower, leaving a long trail of minions to dash through so he can all in you if you try to walk up to CS. The key to beating Yasuo is to keep the wave where you want it to be rather than the way he wants it to be, or there's not a whole lot you can do as alot of champions.

Other general tips for beating Yasuo include: Ask for ganks, an aggressive Yasuo player is very easy to bait and kill if he isn't strong enough to 1v2 already. Take exhaust as a combat summoner if your kill pressure on him is low, its a great way to neutralize his aggression in lane as well as neuter him in teamfights. If Yasuo misses his tornado, that is the time to be aggressive. His Q is on CD, he has no CC for a while, and his ult, by extension, is unavailable. And if Yasuo gets too aggressive in lane and messes up when trying to trade, all in him right then and there. If you get a lead against Yasuo, most champions will be able to zone him out heavily since he's a squishy melee only champion with no escape and no natural sustain.

And 1 final tip that almost no one knows about. Yasuo's ult is a suspension and not a knockup, which means it can be removed with QSS, Mikaels, Cleanse, Gangplanks orange, and Olaf's and Alistars ult. If you remove it, you can move immediately and will take no damage, but Yasuo will still be stuck in his ult animation until it is finished.

Yash Gautam1 votes

He would be oom so fast. I could see him using energy, though. His passive would have to be changed or he would have 3 bars

SnugglePuggle941 votes

I totally agree. His stupid shield is outrageous along with his double crit, free armor pen, and insane mobility.

TurtleMan8781 votes

Yasuo is fine the way he is. if you gave him a resource then he would have to play very very safe and to get in range to use a q would require using at least one e as well. i think the point of Yasuo is that he can play very dominant early and around minions. his main weakness is when he has nothing to proc q for knockup. without a knockup he is useless in a duel/2v2 situation and he is very prone no being bursted late by someone like Leblanc or Akali.

Shroom Junkie1 votes

{quoted}

Yasuo is fine the way he is. if you gave him a resource then he would have to play very very safe and to get in range to use a q would require using at least one e as well. i think the point of Yasuo is that he can play very dominant early and around minions. his main weakness is when he has nothing to proc q for knockup. without a knockup he is useless in a duel/2v2 situation and he is very prone no being bursted late by someone like Leblanc or Akali.

Exactly, though. Yasuo can literally just spam his abilities and have no fear of missing, because it really wouldn't cost him anything anyway. And, as for being dominant early, he's very dominant in most parts of the game. Early game, he has a lot of damage. Mid-game, he has his Q-R for team fights. And late game, he'll probably have 100% crit chance and a ton of damage to burst people hard.

KidKaiser1 votes

depends on how you and your team play vs him.

does yasuo have teammates that can help him ult? aka Alistar MonkeyKing Shyvana ?

Cuz Yasuo can't set up his ulti reliably when he needs it. it's gonna take at least 3 secs before he can even attempt to ult.

= but i can see your point. if you think he's so strong. just go play Malz. or Swain. heck. you can even roll Akali and Zyra.

there's so much champions to fight him in lane it's crazy.

cuz what does he have to help him defend himself?

wind wall. and dashes.

position it right and he only has limited options to dash to. and once wind wall is down. thats your que to pick fights.

Shroom Junkie1 votes

[{quoted}](name=I NO GOOD OK Cry,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h6AEd9bE,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-06-04T23:35:29.920+0000)

depends on how you and your team play vs him.

does yasuo have teammates that can help him ult? aka Alistar MonkeyKing Shyvana ?

Cuz Yasuo can't set up his ulti reliably when he needs it. it's gonna take at least 3 secs before he can even attempt to ult.

Um... yes he does? He has an AOE knockup that he can throw 1/3 Q's, with no cooldown. Obviously if he doesn't throw the tornado before his stacks run out, he has to stack again, but its not that hard especially with the ability spam he has without a resource.

= but i can see your point. if you think he's so strong. just go play Malz. or Swain. heck. you can even roll Akali and Zyra.

there's so much champions to fight him in lane it's crazy.

cuz what does he have to help him defend himself?

wind wall. and dashes.

position it right and he only has limited options to dash to. and once wind wall is down. thats your que to pick fights.

But what you're saying is to only play a set amount of champions to fight him. I don't want to do that. I want counterplay, not just go in whenever he wastes his third Q or wind wall. That's just a bad Yasuo.

AlphaKappaPika1 votes

thinks back to when Yasuo didnt have counterplay and needed nerfs Ive mained yasuo since release, and I have NEVER, EVER killed a competent midlaner pre 6. They removed flow that he gains from his e, that made his eary game weak as it should be, unless your ahri or maybe syndra you should be winning against yasuo pre 6. Also he has a terrible early game until he gets shiv, a terrible mid game until you get ie, and a pretty bad mid/late until you get botrk/hydra and lw. He is a hypercarry that has powerspikes throughout the game, similar to kog' maw (tri) (botrk).

Shroom Junkie1 votes

{quoted}

thinks back to when Yasuo didnt have counterplay and needed nerfs Ive mained yasuo since release, and I have NEVER, EVER killed a competent midlaner pre 6. They removed flow that he gains from his e, that made his eary game weak as it should be, unless your ahri or maybe syndra you should be winning against yasuo pre 6. Also he has a terrible early game until he gets shiv, a terrible mid game until you get ie, and a pretty bad mid/late until you get botrk/hydra and lw. He is a hypercarry that has powerspikes throughout the game, similar to kog' maw (tri) (botrk).

Wait, what? I used to main Yasuo mid - and by 'used to' I mean, couple weeks ago - and he had powerspikes all game. Obvious powerspike at level one with his Q, powerspike at level 2 with his dashes, level 3 with his wind wall(if you're against a ranged mid laner), powerspike at level 6 with his ult, powerspike when he gets his Statikk Shiv and Infinity Edge, then a major powerspike when he gets his Trinity Force or something else to complete his 100% crit chance, and a powerspike if he gets Blood Thirster which sustains him so much it just doesn't make sense. Plus a small powerspike when he gets his defensive item(which may be BT). And considering you can't really poke Yasuo due to his passive(unless you spam poke him, which would require mana in which he doesn't have to worry about, again), its kind of OP.

MohawkBird1 votes

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Shroom Junkie1 votes

{quoted}

The only thing that pisses me off about Yasuo is when he just hops around the lane 24/7 so you can't effectively land poke on him.

He also dodges skillshots so easily. I mean, he can W to block them, and when that isn't up he just E's through something to juke it, or sometimes, just dashes through you if its, say, a Veigar W or E.

Zahz1 votes

just get rid of one of his passives. He doesnt need to have 2 of them. shield he has is just to safe for how much mobility,lack or resouces, CC, and dmg potential.

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

{quoted}

just get rid of one of his passives. He doesnt need to have 2 of them.

Except one is his only defense against melee champions and the ranged spells that aren't blocked by Wind Wall (approximately half of them, surprisingly), and the other is his only offensive steroid. So, yeah, he kinda needs both of them.

Zahz1 votes

{quoted}

Except one is his only defense against melee champions and the ranged spells that aren't blocked by Wind Wall (approximately half of them, surprisingly), and the other is his only offensive steroid. So, yeah, he kinda needs both of them.

there are literally 50+ champs that have neither of those things so no he does not

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

Name some of those champions and I'll justify it fully.

Zahz1 votes

{quoted}

Name some of those champions and I'll justify it fully.

you will justify why they dont have 2 passives? Thats easy. Cuz nobody but yasuo has 2 passives. Nobody else gets free shields plus double crit chance. Crit chance is a huge stat in of itself. That by itself would be considered an op passive before the shield is even on the table

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

{quoted}

you will justify why they dont have 2 passives?

No, I said I would justify why Yasuo has a defensive tool and an offensive tool. The fact that they are both passive effects is meaningless if you have any comprehension of game design and balance.

Thats easy. Cuz nobody but yasuo has 2 passives.

Udyr has 5 passives. His actual passive, which gains stacks from alternated stances, and then each of his stances has its own passive.

So pick a different argument.

Nobody else gets free shields plus double crit chance. Crit chance is a huge stat in of itself. That by itself would be considered an op passive before the shield is even on the table

There are champions who get free shields. Crit chance is rarely used as an innate steroid, because AD and AS are much more quantifiable and less annoying to balance.

Yasuo doubles his Crit Chance, and his crits deal less damage. This loss of damage actually makes his damage output lower than an equally-built Tryndamere or Master Yi.

His shield also doesn't provide as much damage reduction or effective health as Tryndamere's R or Yi's W.

The fact that they're passive effects does not automatically make them any stronger than the "costly" active effects of better champions.

Crunchyfied1 votes

If you make a post complaining about why Yasuo does not have a resource...... you should just complain about every resourceless champ.

Shroom Junkie1 votes

[{quoted}](name=King Crown,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h6AEd9bE,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2015-06-05T00:27:59.819+0000)

If you make a post complaining about why Yasuo does not have a resource...... you should just complain about every resourceless champ.

No, I shouldn't. Yasuo is different from other resourceless champs. Champions like Garen, Shyvana, etc. have long cooldowns(besides Shyvana's Q, which is only short because of the passive). Yasuo, however, does not. And his Q cooldown shortens with his attack speed, which makes it especially spammable.

AlphaKappaPika1 votes

{quoted}

No, I shouldn't. Yasuo is different from other resourceless champs. Champions like Garen, Shyvana, etc. have long cooldowns(besides Shyvana's Q, which is only short because of the passive). Yasuo, however, does not. And his Q cooldown shortens with his attack speed, which makes it especially spammable.

Katarina

Shroom Junkie1 votes

{quoted}

Katarina

Katarina doesn't have utility or defense. She has one escape and initiate, which is on a 12-6 second cooldown(7.2-3.6 with max CDR), and then the rest is literally just damage(granted its multi-target damage, but still, no tankiness or defense).

Yasuo, however, has a defensive AND offensive passive(the shield and the double-crit-chance), a dash on a 0.5 second cooldown(it only allows to dash through a specific thing once per 10-6 seconds, but early that's more than Katarina can, and late its as much(unless Katarina has CDR), a wind wall which blocks almost every projectile in the game(except things such as Xerath's Q or Lux's R), and a multi-target, huge-damage ultimate that can be easily triggered by any knockup, from Yasuo's third Q to Malphite's ultimate.

So, Katarina has long cooldown(10-8 seconds) poke, while Yasuo has a low-cooldown poke with about half the range, and doesn't transfer to other targets, but deals more damage and applies on-hit effects to the first target struck, Katarina has an AOE damage while Yasuo has an AOE damage third-Q, as well as in place of Katarina's AOE, a wind wall to stop almost all projectiles essentially rendering most poke and many ranged champions useless until it wears off, or they somehow avoid it, Katarina has a long cooldown, long-range dash, while Yasuo has an extremely-low cooldown, short-range dash, that cannot dash to the same target multiple times but deals more damage at almost all stages of the game(Shunpo deals more damage at ranks 4 and 5, the same at rank 3, and less at rank 1 and 2, and Sweeping Blade deals more damage after one dash at every stage of the game), and they both have a multi-target, extremely damaging ult, however Katarina's requires her targets to stay in range, as Yasuo's is instant and allows Yasuo to ignore 50% of anyone's armor for the next 15 seconds after, or until he dies, as well as fills his flow bar to give him extra survivability.

Do you see now why I find a bigger problem with Yasuo than Katarina?

SwiftKitten881 votes

on realease i would ave agreed to give him a resource , but right now yasuo is in a VERY balanced state. (save for possibly windwall)

i dont play him myself but overall he offers counterplay and to be effective its best to build a team round his ulti

Shroom Junkie1 votes

{quoted}

on realease i would ave agreed to give him a resource , but right now yasuo is in a VERY balanced state. (save for possibly windwall)

i dont play him myself but overall he offers counterplay and to be effective its best to build a team round his ulti

He does have counterplay. However, the counterplay is purely based on the skill of the Yasuo. If he wastes his Wind Wall against a ranged champion at the slightest hint of a basic attack, then he's gonna lose, obviously. However, when I play Yasuo, nobody can even gank me without ranged CC or an automatic blink-to-me, as I just dash through them to stop any attack. When you don't get ganks, Yasuo is just a pain in the ass to deal with if you're ranged because of that wind wall. You can try to trade, but you'll just waste everything on him for nothing and he can dash in, take out probably 500 damage in one hit, and dash out with no trouble.

Zahz1 votes

well if his shield was stronger then a tryn ult it would be completely game breaking. its tryns ult. Yasuo shield isnt even an active. It just happens like a free banshees.

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