@meddler When is riot going to start talking about the…

Linna Excel · 2015-03-29T16:44:50.980Z

Aside from the brief, generalized explanation of her getting updated in that update thread and one of the devs saying on reddit that she's going to be a tank, riot really hasn't gone much into what's happening to the dwarfy yordle. For instance can we talk about any of these things: What's going on with her passive? It seems like if she's going to be a tank, she'll need to keep it. Her Q? This is a good anti-tank skill as well as her primary damage. I'd hate to lose her TF-gunblade build. What's going on her with her W and E? We know she's losing her R, but that's going to be replaced with? Currently Poppy builds a lot of assassin items (people like that more on her) with one or two tank items. Her gameplay feels like half-jax, half-Vi, neither of which are full tanks (Vi builds warriors and TF in most games, if she goes cinderhulk she'd probably replace warrior for a cleaver). If anything, she feels like a dwarven fighter or beserker, someone who is a good mix of tank and damage. Also she lacks a lot of reliable CC that a proper tank needs in LOL and to be honest that doesn't really fit her outside of the skill shot stun on her E. Right now, Poppy is a lategame champ who mostly ults, charges in, and beats people to a pulp with her hammer while probably chasing down and deleting the carry if necessary. That's not really a tank. So how can you guys justify making her a full tank and what is her core gameplay going to turn into?

Linna ExcelMar 29, 20152 votes

Okay, thank you for replying.

BTW, can you please tell the people working on her that she kinds of needs to keep her spammable big damage Q to be relevant? I figure without it she's not going to be viable in any meta. If she's going tank, she at least needs to be an anti-carry/anti-tank sort of tank since she's not a big CCer.

PS. Please don't forget about her jungle either. ;)

RetillinMar 29, 20157 votes

With the backlash on Cass and other changes to champions (Viegar, Mord, ect...) shouldn't NOW be the time that talking starts?

RetillinMar 30, 20151 votes

Also, when removing both her passive and her ult (I assume her normal passive and not the W passive) how are you going to rebuild her as able to tank? ie just a number change on her base state, or other abilities/actives to use to tank?

TiikeiMar 29, 20154 votes

Can i please ask just one tiny lil question? will her voice get changed into ANYTHING cuter? D: everytime i see the battle regalia poppy splash,and then hear her voice, i just can't get used to that >< and am i the only one that thinks her voice doesnt suit her? o_O every yordle has a soft voice, but not her.

ZephyrDrakeMar 29, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Can i please ask just one tiny lil question? will her voice get changed into ANYTHING cuter? D: everytime i see the battle regalia poppy splash,and then hear her voice, i just can't get used to that >< and am i the only one that thinks her voice doesnt suit her? o_O every yordle has a soft voice, but not her.

she doesn't look like someone who would have a soft voice she looks like someone who wants to rip your guts out and not even flinch while doing it

RiotMeddlerMar 30, 20155 votes

I assume we'll get new voicework for her, she's an old champion with a pretty limited number of lines. Not sure myself yet if the team working on her's thinking of taking her voice in a different direction or not though.

NeameanMar 30, 20158 votes

I kind of want her VO to be like but not exactly of course http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/112282/2363586-531111-tumblr_m1zyoujj9s1qkvkwt_large.jpg Beifong has assertiveness but also caring a type of bitter sweet tough love kind of thing

Tesla EffectMar 30, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I kind of want her VO to be like but not exactly of course http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/112282/2363586-531111-tumblr_m1zyoujj9s1qkvkwt_large.jpg Beifong has assertiveness but also caring a type of bitter sweet tough love kind of thing

Hire Lin Beifongs Voice actress, please Riot! I love her <3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vW9MroBSjJc

straight4freeMar 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I assume we'll get new voicework for her, she's an old champion with a pretty limited number of lines. Not sure myself yet if the team working on her's thinking of taking her voice in a different direction or not though.

Please retain some of her classic lines.

"Their defeat is non-negotiable."

"They'll beg for peace."

"Why don't you just lay down your weapons now."

"Jokes? I don't know any jokes."

J0HN C3N4Mar 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I assume we'll get new voicework for her, she's an old champion with a pretty limited number of lines. Not sure myself yet if the team working on her's thinking of taking her voice in a different direction or not though.

Relevant Question:

Is she going to remain the high-risk type of pick as she is now? I'd hope not.

NullDragonMar 30, 20153 votes

"Jokes? I don't know any jokes."

Nameless HeroMar 30, 20156 votes

And I want her VO to be like her

http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2014/159/0/1/__________by_movetheground-d7lm18c.jpg

Poppy is tough but she is cannonically younger than Teemo and Tristana. Deal with it Lin Beifong Fans

FlemmanMar 29, 20153 votes

is there a chance that you put some wall creation in her kit (to allow her to make her own play with t§he E without the need of ennemy being near structure)

A mix of anivia W and vel'koz Q should be pretty fun (first damage, then wall when it split)

RiotMeddlerMar 29, 201511 votes

We did test that out a little while back. Conclusion was that it took the E from a skill that generated a lot of interesting play for Poppy and her opponents around where everyone stood relative to terrain and changed it into a spell that just got used anywhere whenever Poppy wanted to jump on someone and stun them. More powerful and less interesting, which isn't a good combination.

Teridax68Mar 30, 20154 votes

What about giving Poppy some form of quicker repositioning? Condemn works on Vayne because she can quickly align her target between herself and a wall, but Heroic Charge currently doesn't work so well on Poppy because she lacks the tools to quickly get herself into the right spot (the movement speed buff on her W doesn't really work, either). Other than that, what ideas flew around to make Heroic Charge work better on Poppy's kit, and how much situationality are you aiming for in that ability?

FlemmanMar 30, 20151 votes

Thanks for the answers^^

I guess you test those thing to make the E her core abilty (read that somewhere month ago) by helpîng her to use it not only in teamfight.

As you have put this option in the "now way we do that" folder, can we expect more mobility for her to deal with the "slipery" champ

Linna ExcelMar 30, 20153 votes

I kind of wish she had a half second stun on its own and the longer stun on a wall hit.

AsmurfinmypantsMar 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It's still too early to talk about all the specifics of the Poppy rework. It's pretty safe to say though that her passive and ult will be replaced and that she'll be keeping her current E.

Thematically I'd agree Dwarven warrior's a pretty good comparison point

and her mana problems?

PartholonianSep 9, 20151 votes

The mana problems are imposed in order to keep her from abusing people too badly with her hideously broken ult, by giving her a terrible laning phase. Once they ditch the ult, there will be plenty of room to buff her in other ways, including mana costs.

Klax002saurMar 30, 20157 votes

Her ult gets all the attention because it's flashy, but her passive is such an unsung hero imo. She's someone that lives through unbelievable odds. You've killed everything about her if you take it away from her. She doesn't deserve to be a tank, she deserves to be a bruiser like she currently is.

"Let me show you hammer diplomacy" means 0 coming from a tank.

RetillinMar 30, 20152 votes

I agree 100%. It's more her identity than her E.

AbodyHUN666Mar 30, 20151 votes

The truth is though, her passive fails the clarity point of healthy design. You won't know how she survived that dive unless you look it up on the internet. Also with a new passive she won't have those hard counters like Darius or Irelia who deal sustained damage and ignore the passive with true damage.

Klax002saurMar 31, 20151 votes

Physical damage that does more than 10% of her current HP, is reduced by half. What's so hard to understand about that? "Oh no it seems my damage was cut in half? how could this be? oh yeah, IT'S POPPY."

Darius and Irelia are in the game for the sole purpose of being Fighters/Tank counters. That's not a good arguement to reason getting rid of her iconic ability.

ZylotheWolfbaneMar 30, 20152 votes

That's extremely disappointing to hear actually, because one of the coolest things about Poppy are her Passive and Ult, because becoming so difficult to kill, and peel is amazing. Just playing this tiny, tough as nails yordle with a huge hammer that can walk directly into a team and beat her target to death really feels like one of the most gratifying and enjoyable things about her kit right now.

AbodyHUN666Mar 30, 20151 votes

I enjoy doing it too, but do you think the enemy does too? Whenever I get fed on her I can imagine my enemies asking "How did she survive that? She is so bad that she ulted on me in an 1v1, set she killed me with that burst! How am I supposed to outrun a ghosted Olaf/Trynda child and having hard cc?" Poppy's ult is so strong that she had to be nerfed to the point where she is happy to survive some matchups and is useless vs anyone else, and her passive makes calculation based trades impossible against her.

WarlockLawMar 30, 20151 votes

I actually liked her ult a lot :( if it does get scrapped on her would it be possible the another champion could get a version of that ult with a change so that the user can only damage the target making it a true 1v1

PartholonianSep 9, 20151 votes

No. You'd just ult someone that your class counters their class, and they'd die without them or their team being able to do anything, and a lousy time would be had by all. And then they'd have to nerf the character into nonviability because otherwise they'd turn fights into 5v4s (since you would still be around after the ult wore off, assuming it wasn't made to break instantly when one of the combatants dies).

That ult cannot be saved.

AnonagonMar 30, 20151 votes

When you say her ult will be replaced, do you mean completely removed, or will her new ult be something similar to what is now? Because while I completely understand the need to remove her passive (as it is blatantly broken and isn't very interesting), her current ult is what defines her playstyle and is what many Poppy players love about her. To me it seems like getting rid of Acid Hunter or Mystic Shot or Riftwalk. Certainly you don't plan on making her an actual tank, do you?

PartholonianSep 9, 20151 votes

I feel just the opposite: her ult is the really broken part of her kit and what is stopping the rest from being viable, her passive is a bit cryptic but could be reworked into something that does a similar thing more clearly (such as Poppy gains 1 armor and MR for every 2% of health she is missing, which would be kind of like the inverse of Olaf's passive, very appropriate IMO; or 3/4/5/6/7 for every 10% depending on level, if the flat version turns out to be too strong in early game).

Since you usually don't have her ult up, most of how she plays is how she plays when not ulting: building and maintaining W stacks, trading with E > Q and trying to position for the stun, being deceptively tough at low HP with her passive. Toughness at low HP, if she keeps it, would also work well with Sterak's and Maw, which suggest more of a fighter identity than a true tank (but not really a juggernaut, since she has a gapcloser, something more Renekton-ish, except for her lack of true sustain and her personality).

CapsomMar 30, 20152 votes

{quoted}

It's still too early to talk about all the specifics of the Poppy rework. It's pretty safe to say though that her passive and ult will be replaced and that she'll be keeping her current E.

Thematically I'd agree Dwarven warrior's a pretty good comparison point

This worries me a little because I think Poppy's E is the worst part of her kit because it gets canceled by so many things. Don't get me wrong I like the way it feels if you can actually land it, but any form of dash or cc (other than stun i believe) cancels her only engage and her only cc and then she just gets kited. I don't mind that some things stop it but there are just to many things that do currently. Probably the most frustrating example of this would be Kalista's passive right now Poppy's main play style is to ult and dive the back line but if they have a Kalista and a mid with Zhonya's poppy becomes mostly useless. I understand that if there is no collision than it doesn't make sense for her damage or cc to go off, (and that you have had this exact problem with many gap-closers on many champions) but to have her only form of cc and engage to be cancelled so easily is one of the biggest problems with her as a champion.

MishliMar 30, 20154 votes

{quoted}

It's still too early to talk about all the specifics of the Poppy rework. It's pretty safe to say though that her passive and ult will be replaced and that she'll be keeping her current E.

Thematically I'd agree Dwarven warrior's a pretty good comparison point

On this topic, i have a few questions please.

you say "it's safe to say that ult and passive will be replaced" can you please give us anything else? I don't want to sound like all the Poppy fans are broken records, but this is pretty the only information we ALWAYS get every single time we ask. Besides that, all we've ever been told, by Morello himself is "if Poppy ever sees [high level] competetive play, she will be nerfed so hard she would be like the next Evelynn" and "a poppy rework is expected before season 5" Thankfully for the first and sadly for the second, so far these have not happened, but even any kind of update would be great, what are you struggling with? what ideas have you played around with? Is there some theme/ability that isn't working out?
In this interview, it's stated you're aiming to turn Poppy back into a tank, but what kind of tank? Here It's said "Poppy looks like an armored and armed ball of golden death" Is it planned for her to be the mundo "be annoying with cleavers all day and just tank stuff forever" tank? Or more like VI, a tanky fighter, capable of diving into the enemy team/towers and wrecking someone. I guess the question is, is the plan to take away all of Poppy's damage and leave her just as a tanky frontliner, or a fighter? Personally I would much rather see Poppy as a fighter than a straight tank, because, aside from her assassin qualities, towerdiving is one of the most notorious things Poppy is known for (and i don't just mean her ult) ant it feels like a shame
Please... please... please... I beg you all. If Poppy's E is the only thing that is going to be kept. Please put it back to a working order? Back in path 3.8. Poppy's Heroic charge was reworked to "better detect terrain" but now not only does it feel like it's gotten worse, It also seems to have the lowest priority out of any dash in the game. If her target a: dashes, b: dies, c: blinks d: sneezes too hard (riven) while Poppy is mid charge... she simply loses it and freezes mid movement. Every other targeted dash in the game at least continues on to the point where the target was (even if it's funny to see 2 Xin's switch place by dashing to each other) Poppy? just... freezes in place... loses a huge chunk of her mana and is kinda screwed. 8 seconds of immunity doesn't mean much if you can't catch anybody in that time.
This is more of a personal request than a question, but one of my overall favorite things about Poppy is how she doesn't quite want to die when people think she's going to. Similar to how old Karma got stronger the lower her hp, or Trundle's amazing survivability with his ult+w, Poppy is very killable, and there are specific things like true damage, (I'm looking at you Darius... or ignite) that ignore her passive, but it always takes a bit more than most people expect. Some people may disagree with me here, but I believe that these things have been kept with both Karma and Trundle's reworks, and, even if it's in a different form than simply "take less damage the less hp she has" I would love to see that quality kept on Poppy as well.

Sorry this is a little long winded, but It's so rare Poppy players get any info at all. I keep trying to put her down because I don't want to get used to her all over again only to have her changed out from underneath me just when I was falling in love with her again, horrible early game and easy counter picks and all.

noobatallgamesMay 31, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It's still too early to talk about all the specifics of the Poppy rework. It's pretty safe to say though that her passive and ult will be replaced and that she'll be keeping her current E.

Thematically I'd agree Dwarven warrior's a pretty good comparison point

I'm very happy and sad to hear this cause poppy a fun champ currently but only if feed or late to mid game she can outplay sometime with passive early game she has nothing going for her early game for lane but im very happy to hear her e is staying why u people might ask cause it down right funnest to use other than her current pre rework ult when i land a poppy e skill i love it i think im the best lol when im not but lane that move on a wall feel so rewarding but suck they're not always a wall sadly and i hope that i can fall in love with new poppy like i did with the old one keep up the good job roit

VenowolfSep 8, 20151 votes

Dwarven warrior is the best thematic for her indeeed.

troytechOct 9, 20151 votes

how about now?

@meddler When is riot going to start talking about the Poppy update

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