Who is good agains Zed and Yasuo?

ThePikol·Jun 6, 2016·3 votes·1,778 views

Recently I'm pretty scared of going mid, because if there is Yasou or Zed in enemy team I would have hard time. My pool of champs on mid are: . Eventually Yasuo can block nearly every skill I have with these and agains Zed I'm doing pretty well only with Lux. My pool is lacking assasins so I thought about picking Zed myself, Ahri or Fizz, but fizz is getting nerfed recently. I find Azir super fun. Is he good agains assasins? Can u guys suggest someone for me?

53 Comments

SlythionJun 6, 20166 votes

Vladimir

YumaS2AstralJun 6, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Chogath also works, not only due to the sustain but also because of the silence and CC. He becomes too tanky for them to kill after level 6

SlythionJun 6, 20161 votes

Morgana and Malz work well too because of their waveclear and morg e/malz passive (and ult obviously)

CynikaJun 6, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Yea I've had a lot of success with vlad against zed/Yasuo even pre-rework.

Against zed post 6 just save pool for when he tries to ult you, profit.

Against yas just try not to stand in the middle of a large minion wave, and auto him to pop his shield, profit.

YumaS2AstralJun 6, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Yea I've had a lot of success with vlad against zed/Yasuo even pre-rework.

Against zed post 6 just save pool for when he tries to ult you, profit.

Against yas just try not to stand in the middle of a large minion wave, and auto him to pop his shield, profit.

Yasuo is good against skillshot reliant mages because he can either dodge them by using E on minions or block them with his windwall. That's why I like to use Vlad against Yasuo. He is point-click. There is nothing do dodge. The only two things that Yasuo can do against Vlad are all-in him early (however a smart Vlad will play safe during the first levels and avoid all-ins) or use his wind wall to block the healing portion of his Q. It doesn't block the damage, but will prevent Vlad from healing himself. Either that or buy Hexdrinker - but this will delay his crit items, and Yasuo really needs crit to work.

Nameless VoiceJun 6, 20163 votes

The best way to beat them is to ban them, every game. Because even if you win the game eventually, you're not going to have much fun regardless.

AptestJun 6, 20161 votes

idk. my last game with bard was pretty fun against him.

the jungler and me caught him trying to gank bot, and after we just lived in his lane and made his life miserable.

SwiftKitten88Jun 6, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nameless Voice,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h4Ba0iXg,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-06-06T13:06:25.547+0000)

The best way to beat them is to ban them, every game. Because even if you win the game eventually, you're not going to have much fun regardless.

i dont really have an issue with yasuo much, but with zed.. yeah.. the only real solution is to ban him every game

AhmiJun 6, 20162 votes

every single champion in your champion pool is bad against yasuo.

azir isn't that great against yasuo but against zed he is good. fizz is good. ahri is okay.

riven hard counters yasuo.

Matchups don't really matter all that much. If you're better than the other player you should be able to beat him on any champion. I beat a Yasuo in lane today as Evelynn. Not because Evelynn is good against Yasuo, but because I was better than that player.

YumaS2AstralJun 6, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Matchups don't really matter all that much. If you're better than the other player you should be able to beat him on any champion. I beat a Yasuo in lane today as Evelynn. Not because Evelynn is good against Yasuo, but because I was better than that player.

When two players are skilled and have the same skill level, matchups tend to matter a lot. I can beat a very unskilled, bronze V Riven player, using Vladimir. However, I know that, should the enemy Riven be very skilled (independent of the elo, but lets say, diamond II) I will lose this matchup as Vlad. Thus, the Riven x Vlad matchup still goes on Riven's favor. I am very skilled with Vladimir, but that doesn't mean I am going to win every matchup because the enemies can be just as skilled with their champions as I am skilled with mine. (that's also the reason why I don't usually blind pick Vlad)

Voluug13Jun 6, 20161 votes

Match-ups are always considered on equal or similar player skills.

Which is why they are still important.

DeathBurstJun 6, 20162 votes

If you can get it pass ban phase, the new Malzahar rework works wonder against Assassins. Someone else already suggested Vlad, and I guess Swain is not too bad. All 3 of them are relatively tanky for Mages, Swain and Vlad have good sustain (post-6 for Swain), and they pay it with their medium-short range, but it's not really an issue against Assassins who want to come in melee range. Not sure if it works well versus Zed specifically, though, because of his medium-long range poke. Lissandra is probably good too, with her self-ult to heal her+prevent Zed's mark detonation.

As for Azir, I suppose his ult can let you disengage when an Assassin wants to all-in you, but I'm not sure it's very effective. And if you want to pick a straightforward champ since it won't be your main, just a counterpick, I suggest Ahri among the 4 you proposed.

Regarding Yasuo, I guess anything that can outrange him and poke him down so he cannot abuse his shield is good. Sure his windwall is annoying, but it has a far longer cooldown than any of the mages you cited. Don't try to all-in him and put your whole combo in his wall, that would be stupid. But use just one skill at a time and get him low. This should work with Cass, Ziggs and Jayce, at least, maybe Lux and Velkoz, among the champs you already play.

Now if you want something good against both Yasuo and Zed at the same time... I guess I'll propose Vlad/Malzahar/Swain/Lissandra again. They are maybe not perfect against Yasuo, but they shouldn't suffer too much, so it's probably the best compromise.

Voluug13Jun 6, 20161 votes

Actually yhe best thing against Yasuo is battle mages that dont depend on skillshots and have point and click abilities. He has a shield and a cd-less dash to evade poke.

Malzahar Swain Lissandra Annie Rumble

DeathBurstJun 6, 20161 votes

Well, so we agree on Malza Swain and Liss. Filing Annie with Battle Mages is a bit of a stretch, though, and Rumble isn't typically played mid.

Voluug13Jun 6, 20161 votes

Annie builds very similar to them. And that is more or less my point, she has a very tanky build and reliable CC against Yasuo.

And Rumble can still midlane. The only reason why Rumble doesnt is due to the lack of range he has, but now that midlane has a lot of melee presence too, he can easily work as a counterpick against melee midlaners.

CatastropJun 6, 20162 votes

Lissandra You bully them to hell, and your ult completely nullifies them in teamfights.

Maximum MordeJun 6, 20161 votes

Morgana, Fizz

spombjopJun 6, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maximum Morde,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h4Ba0iXg,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-06-06T13:02:53.680+0000)

Morgana, Fizz

yasuo and zed coutner them both

Maximum MordeJun 6, 20161 votes

Not according to win statistics they don't. Yasuo and Zed are more likely than not to lose to both of those champions. They also lose to Swain, Kayle and Anivia.

As long as you don't let yourself get early cheesed, Morgana dumpsters the shit out of Yasuo in my experience. Post 6, you can kill him any time you want by just R - > W -> Q and spamming mastery icon. He's too squishy to stand up to it, and without being able to ult you because of your E he can't deal enough damage before he dies.

Spicy RiceJun 6, 20161 votes

Ok, the trick to beating yasuo and zed, is to bait out their main defensive abilities (wind wall and shadow). To do this, simply poke poke and poke some more, till they have to use their ability to simply stay alive.

Good champs against yasuo include Diana Annie viktor swain garen and Darius

I'm not sure about who is good against zed since I just play yasuo against him and to me, it's an easy lane

MaxDarkwillJun 6, 20161 votes

Are you talking about the Fizz E nerf :D . I'm honestly happy about it I hate this lil runt and anyone maining it

karruckJun 6, 20161 votes

Lulu yasuo wind wall does not block her AA... Taliyah her E damages yas if he dashes to engage, Talon good for both if you play smart, Heimerdinger ....just to annoy them that would be my choice but i do not go mid often

RabblerouserJun 6, 20161 votes

Fizz's nerfs barely touch what really makes him annoying. His E gets a cooldown nerf. And he no longer has a BS permaghost so he can't catch up to a bear-stanced Udyr through minion waves.

But yes... please... stay away from Fizz. I'd love to see less Fizzes. :P

So... Yasuo

Just note I'M A SUPPORT MAIN. I'VE NEVER TRIED THESE. So take my advice with a grain of salt. I've little idea how Yas or some of these champs build, so not sure how well they'd do, really. These are IDEAS.

You might be able to punish his dashes as only tanks can really build against his crit and such. Cassiopeia Veigar Taliyah all have abilities that punish his dashes to hurt his mobility.

Xerath Seems to be an alright idea. He deals decent damage at range. Even if he shares similarities with Ziggs, whose poke can be negated with Wind Wall, I believe. Xerath's Q isn't a missile. It simply... is. Sorta of like a Taric E. HOWEVER, Xerath becomes very mana-hungry. At some points, I feel his Q costs more mana than his ult. His W isn't a missile either. His R is a top-down artillery shot. His E is a stun and is THE ONLY THING I believe Yas can block.

Syndra A GOOD Syndra player might be able to get past a Yasuo. Kinda big on the "I've never tried this" thing above. I've played Syndra in ARAM and absolutely love her. Throwing orbs with her W can't be blocked, but knocking orbs toward him with her E for the stun can. As can her ult, I believe. So you'd have to bait out the Wind Wall before you think of ulting. Syndra's a little tricky to learn because of orb positioning.

Honorable mentions include Swain and Malzahar mostly because I haven't learned them well enough to give any decent adivce.

Spicy RiceJun 6, 20162 votes

Syndrome vs yasuo is a skill matchup. If he can predict her all in and wind wall, or dodge her stun, he wins. Conversely, if she can combo properly, and can predict yasuo's movements and stun him, she wins

IgotlazyJun 6, 20161 votes

Annie can usually shit on Yasuo most of the time. Her Tibbers stun will make sure he can't retaliate as you lay on the rest of your burst.

Titanium70Jun 6, 20161 votes

Against Zed you want a champ that can farm from your Tower and throw out some Poke, Lux is good, Velkoz might work, Xerath is good. - There is just no point in trying to fight Zed he simply overpowers any midlane matchup, you wont get him while surviving.

EDIT: And Sit on your CC CD 24/7 after he reaches 6, never ever use it offensivly or you're dead - if he ults you, you have to place your CC right behind to stop him.

Keep (with your JGL) Wards up to make his roaming less effective and slowly outscale him.

Yasuo on the other hand you want to beat up pretty early on - Cassio is great, Velkoz as well. Evertime he tries to get a creep attack him! And dont be afraid of the wall - try to bait it out with AAs or force him to use it. after that, you'll have a pretty large window to kill him.

Galio works against both - but make sure you have another source of AP DMG in you team - than rush Frozen Heart and dont forget to spam /laugh. =P

Galio works only in few Teamcomps and only against a few - if you pick him right its basicly freelo. ^^

zlumpyJun 6, 20161 votes

Another good thing to keep in mind is jungle. If you can get your jungle to sit in a bush and wait for zed to initiate you could very easily catch him with his pants down. Talk more with your jungles each game, or even just other lanes.

SpoofghoulJun 6, 20161 votes

Malphite is rocksolid

Malzahar also does will mwith the passive and ult

Bobloser3555Jun 6, 20161 votes

Cassio is good vs them!

No flash no lifeJun 6, 20161 votes

Urgot

KaxiJun 6, 20161 votes

I mean, you already have Galio, which I consider a pretty hard counter to Zed and Yasuo. Urgot and Cho'Gath are also pretty big counters. Also, currently, I'd say Malzahar, Swain, and Vlad do well because of their anti-assassin/anti-burst tendencies of being beefy and enjoying a good Zhonya's.

SylverblitzJun 6, 20161 votes

If you want to upset Zed and Yasuo players there is one that can harass both of them from range and in a way that not even Yasuo's wind wall will block. I am talking about Kayle and her empowered basic attacks (E). They don't count as projectiles so they aren't blocked by his wall and if I remember correctly if you hit a minion near him then he will take full splash damage without resists coming into it. I don't remember where I heard this so it may not be accurate.

Kayle also works against Zed with ranged harass helping and her poke with Q has high damage and a big slow if he tries to get close or dive near tower. There is also the fact that Kayle's ult will block Zed's ult completely. If you want a different option for facing Zed then you can also use Lissandra as her ult has a similar effect of blocking Zed's ult as well as the bonus of healing you and damaging him in the process.

l Helios lJun 6, 20161 votes

Swain, Malzahar, LeBlanc can be good. Galio is pretty solid imo. The windwall is only for a few seconds and has a massive cd, so you can play around it for a while.

The DeckownerJun 6, 20161 votes

play malzahar

TyroneWatermelonJun 6, 20161 votes

How do you fight toxic no skill champs? With another one. Pick Fizz/Annie,you will do wonders.

TheOvermindJun 6, 20161 votes

Hmmm a lot of champions shit on yasuo : Morgana , darius, pantheon , akali, irelia , fiora , swain, malzahar. As for zed not as many and those that do don't hit him as hard as the champions I mentioned hit yasuo. Maybe the new malzahar is a legit counter to Zeds poke with his passive .

Dominick DestineJun 6, 20161 votes

The best / only counter to Zed is Ban.

Ban totally counters Zed !!!

Br4ndonJun 6, 20161 votes

I'd suggest Jayce. Zed cant itemize against you well and Yasuo cant block your melee AAs. Be aggressive early and try to get a lead before either hits 6.

AsudurgaJun 6, 20161 votes

Kayle

Has everything you need. Ranged auto attack harass, shred, slow, heal and a free item 3157 which costs NO MANA and can be used on anyone on your team with a stupidly short cooldown.

Voluug13Jun 6, 20161 votes

Zilean is a perfectly good counter for both of them as long as you know how to play passive and when to poke.

He can push extremely fast, has high utility IF he falls behind, his Ult is literal anti-assassin in one spell.

Farm, deny, counter roam/gank, and you will be able to deny them kills and their midgame powerspikes.

RevaliJun 6, 20161 votes

Ekko

Registeel1234Jun 6, 20161 votes

I'm an Azir Main, and honestly, he's good against theses two. I usualy either win the lane or come out even.

CatastropJun 6, 20161 votes

Might I ask how? Everytime I'm up against a Yasuo as Azir, I just can't ever seem to win. The lane goes even, but for me, that's just not enough when the enemy is a Yasuo.

Registeel1234Jun 7, 20161 votes

I almost always stay away from my minions, so he cannot jump on me. Then I just proceed to poke him to death

Gene ImoriJun 6, 20161 votes

Xerath W and R go over Yasuo wall, and you can Q farm from under turret with little threat. Boring lane but it works.

MunchCrunchLunchJun 6, 20161 votes

bruisers.

shane is goodJun 6, 20161 votes

Supporty mids such as Lulu and Karma are my usual go-to picks for mid lane assassins.

Kei143Jun 6, 20161 votes

Urgot Urgot Urgot Urgot Urgot Urgot

DerrenBoiJun 6, 20161 votes

I would play FIZZ. Against Zed, Fizz can E and completely dodge zed's ult. Also, lots of outplay vs Zed and Yasuo. I main Fizz, and whenever I play vs a Zed or Yas, I always win lane. Also, Fizz nerfs dont really do anything to him...