The 10 bans are just the new carrot on the stick.

Edge of Daybreak·Nov 29, 2016·8 votes·12,972 views

Edit. Meddler confirmed we are getting 10 bans. Goodbye yasuo.

61 Comments

Risk of FateNov 29, 20163 votes

As much as I would love to see 10 bans, I think it'd be a bit too much right now and it would pretty much force out a good portion of the player base. Let's say that they just released it.

Yasuo Zed Riven Are permabanned across all Divisions MasterYi Akali Katarina Blitzcrank LeeSin Ahri Most common bans for Silver and Below Annie Gangplank Darius Graves Hecarim Illaoi Most common bans for probably Plat and below

Then you get to Diamond, Master, and Challenger who will ban to lock out entire teams, especially if you know who you're up against. Heck, you can even ban entire Roles on 10 bans forcing people to think creatively, dodge, or force a loss.

More bans are nice, but I wouldn't want them unless there's a creative way of doing it like Dota 2 does. I say this because I know 4 of my champions are Ban-worthy and I don't have enough experience with the other 6 in case those get locked out.

StephenizgodNov 29, 20162 votes

Do people really ban Garen at Plat level? Is GP still even a thing?

Also Yasuo is toxic (again this doesn't mean he is op or unbalanced, he just isn't fun to play against), Zed is ridiculous always, and Riven is broken af with CotC. We should not be forced into wasting 3 bans because these 3 champions simply exist, they need to be fixed or they will be basically perma-banned.

Risk of FateNov 29, 20161 votes

That's why I say probably. I was kind of going off what I've been seeing played by people like gbay, redmercy, and rossboomsocks. Though I should probably replace Garen with Darius given he's seeing more play.

Those three will be permabanned regardless unless they're somehow completely unplayable which may happen if people complain hard enough. Diver update's still coming.

AptestNov 29, 20161 votes

Right now bans are set up in a state where the same champions are banned all the time. Because bans are at the beginning, and because Riot refuses to provide opponent information during banning process, players are led into banning the same champions that are STATISTICALLY the strongest or most annoying.

For this to change, more information has to be given to players prior to bans. Either push some of the bans into later picking phase, OR allow important information about the other team (who is an OTP, who is the strongest player, etc) to be revealed during bans.

This is the only way to prevent the "always the same champions banned" effect.

Risk of FateNov 29, 20161 votes

That's why I said something similar to Dota 2 which is kind of serpentines.

AptestNov 29, 20163 votes

I remember your post. I apologize for not giving credit.

KorilloNov 29, 20161 votes

Meddler literally was just speaking about this

Edge of DaybreakNov 29, 20161 votes

Link to it because I havent seen a post on this from him. Edit. Double checked and nothing from him in over a month. I could keep going back but I think a month is far enough.

RiotMeddlerNov 29, 201615 votes

We'll be moving to ten bans. Should be ready to talk some details in December, extra bans themselves will follow somewhat later, almost certainly with different timings for pro play and regular play.

Edge of DaybreakNov 29, 20161 votes

{quoted}

We'll be moving to ten bans. Should be ready to talk some details in December, extra bans themselves will follow somewhat later, almost certainly with different timings for pro play and regular play.

Yay. Now where did you talk about this because I cannot find it.

RiotMeddlerNov 29, 201614 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/99Oykczu-so-about-10-bans

Top result on google for 'Meddler 10 bans'

l Helios lNov 29, 20163 votes

What is "google?" AltaVista ftw

MarshbouyNov 30, 20161 votes

Can't tell if that's being a little sardonic or just being realistic. Maybe both?

BIackfoxNov 29, 20165 votes

{quoted}

We'll be moving to ten bans. Should be ready to talk some details in December, extra bans themselves will follow somewhat later, almost certainly with different timings for pro play and regular play.

Noooooooo. Guess I'll never get to play soraka once her win rate goes up like it usually does. Fucking selfish assholes on the forums

And great, now draft pick will take 10 minutes instead of 5

StephenizgodNov 29, 20167 votes

I guess thats what you get for playing a toxic champion :I and no I am not saying she is OP, just that she is toxic and anti-fun to play against. Same as Yasuo, idc about their winrate or balance, they are absolutely no fun to play against or with.

BIackfoxNov 29, 20164 votes

{quoted}

I guess thats what you get for playing a toxic champion :I and no I am not saying she is OP, just that she is toxic and anti-fun to play against. Same as Yasuo, idc about their winrate or balance, they are absolutely no fun to play against or with.

And? She is my favorite character I don't give a shit what you think to be brutally honest with you.

StephenizgodNov 29, 20163 votes

was just saying, there is no reason to complain, you know she is toxic and anti-fun to play against. People would rather ban her than deal with her, simple as that.

BIackfoxNov 29, 20165 votes

{quoted}

was just saying, there is no reason to complain, you know she is toxic and anti-fun to play against. People would rather ban her than deal with her, simple as that.

And here I thought it was them being lazy. My apologies. item 3123

RivuoNov 29, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sorakas Tits,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h2EhApNj,comment-id=00000000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-29T21:14:06.443+0000)

And here I thought it was them being lazy. My apologies.

If you main soraka, You know damn well that executioners calling literally does nothing..

You must be low elo

BIackfoxNov 29, 20165 votes

{quoted}

If you main soraka, You know damn well that executioners calling literally does nothing..

You must be low elo

I see your rocking your high elo silver icon. And most played champ yasuo and riven in s6 and have the balls to bitch to me? Lmfao.

Also ofc not, being in silver myself, no one knows to, besides myself builds exe against soraka in silver.

RivuoNov 29, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sorakas Tits,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h2EhApNj,comment-id=0000000000000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-29T21:28:24.228+0000)

I see your rocking your high elo silver icon. And most played champ yasuo and riven in s6 and have the balls to bitch to me? Lmfao.

Also ofc not, being in silver myself, no one knows to, besides myself builds exe against soraka in silver.

You can add me on my diamond account if you want to argue.

BIackfoxNov 29, 20164 votes

{quoted}

You can add me on my diamond account if you want to argue.

Diamond . Has a 48% win rate against trash.

Also doesn't change the fact about the yas and riven.

sit kidNov 29, 20164 votes

let me see that ebay diamond account

WinBoatNov 29, 20163 votes

I don't think you have to worry about Soraka being perma banned. She will go unbanned often. Maybe every 5 games you will see her banned.

However, Yasuo... He is gonna be perma banned 100%. You will never see a Yasuo ever again. I think because of this, they will probably take away the 10 bans and make it 8 bans or something.

BIackfoxNov 29, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Captain KIed,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h2EhApNj,comment-id=00000000000000010000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2016-11-29T22:29:22.014+0000)

I don't think you have to worry about Soraka being perma banned. She will go unbanned often. Maybe every 5 games you will see her banned.

However, Yasuo... He is gonna be perma banned 100%. You will never see a Yasuo ever again. I think because of this, they will probably take away the 10 bans and make it 8 bans or something.

Which is good however like I said in another post there, draft already take 20 minutes to ban pick then get into a game. This adds another 5 minutes

StephenizgodNov 29, 20161 votes

Id rather ban her than have my bot lane bitching and feeding.

MarshbouyNov 30, 20162 votes

Yeah because executioners does sooo much against her crazy lane sustain.

Garnet DustNov 29, 20161 votes

YAAAAAAS! Drag him!!!

l Helios lNov 29, 20161 votes

?? Why is every champion is "unfun" now? What is unfun about Soraka that isn't unfun about someone like Karma or Janna?

StephenizgodNov 29, 20161 votes

Karma is annoying and Janna is unfun as well but it differs from champion to champion. Janna is unfun if you are melee and only have one gap closer, but if you are ranged or have a lot of poke she isn't much of an issue (usually). Soraka is unfun because there is no interaction, you do damage, she clicks heal and heals it all back. It feels bad and there is no playing around it, you can buy Executioners and/or Morellos but that is it. Common for people to say "focus Soraka" but she just stays back out of range anyways so that doesn't work unless she is pushed. Its not broken or OP, its not unbalanced and she isn't even particularly strong, but its just not that fun to deal with her. So much so that people are more than willing to ban her.

BIackfoxNov 29, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Karma is annoying and Janna is unfun as well but it differs from champion to champion. Janna is unfun if you are melee and only have one gap closer, but if you are ranged or have a lot of poke she isn't much of an issue (usually). Soraka is unfun because there is no interaction, you do damage, she clicks heal and heals it all back. It feels bad and there is no playing around it, you can buy Executioners and/or Morellos but that is it. Common for people to say "focus Soraka" but she just stays back out of range anyways so that doesn't work unless she is pushed. Its not broken or OP, its not unbalanced and she isn't even particularly strong, but its just not that fun to deal with her. So much so that people are more than willing to ban her.

Unfun to play or play against? Since I don't play janna a lot but when I do I find her fun, obviously not as much as my waifu

l Helios lNov 29, 20161 votes

So what's your opinion on Zed LeeSin Nidalee Blitzcrank DrMundo Illaoi Heimerdinger ?

I can come up with a reason why every single one would be "unfun" but they're not. There's pros and cons to every champion and there's inherent frustration in things not going as one wishes, so I don't understand why that makes things unfun.

StephenizgodNov 30, 20161 votes

Lee Sin is OP right now.

most of those are annoying, but only if you don't really know how to play against them. Soraka is different because her kind of unfun is because there is nothing you can do about her healing. You can lessen it and you can try to focus her but the actual healing is point click and instant.

l Helios lNov 30, 20161 votes

LS is strong, but it's more of a culmination of factors than anything else.

My point is that everyone has something or someone they find unfun, but it has nothing to do with poor game design in most cases. It's nothing more than people lacking the ability to play accordingly to what they face in game.

StephenizgodNov 30, 20161 votes

When I say "unfun" i mean poor game design or poor gameplay. Like the design is bad, it offers nothing and is just not very fun overall. Its point click heal for X amount of hp, there is nothing to that mechanic that is fun or interactive.

Karma is unfun to play against early game because her damage is, but that is more "annoyance" rather than bad game design. Soraka is a toxic champion, Yasuo is a toxic champion, Karma is just an annoying early game champion.

Lord DroversonNov 30, 20161 votes

"Unfun" typically occurs against champions that have very little counter play. Those champions tend to enhance your weakness and have very little of their own (minus direct counters to them).

With the list you gave, many of those champs can completely dominate certain matchups. Riot has tried to steer away from direct hard counters. It's not fun being completely shut down....not because of your skills vs their skill.....but because their kit completely nullifies yours.

Just to give some examples, Zed can crush so many mid laners. Where as many midlaners can not fight Zed well at all. Same with Heimer (either mid or top).

Ever fought Teemo playing Tryndaemere/Nasus?
Ever fought Pantheon as GP (more so the old gp)? Those matchups are NOT fun at all.

And Just to be clear, I understand some of these picks may not be ideal, and people often counter pick themselves. It still sucks though.

Remember, some people have a smaller champion pool they like to play. When your mains are all countered by Zed, Yasao, or Riven (just to name a few), it makes the game unfun to play against. Heck, it can make the entire game "unfun".

I hope that makes some sense. I tried my best lol

EndlessSorcererNov 29, 20161 votes

Have you decided yet on how bans will be implemented yet?

This is, will the ban phase still occur before any champions are picked or will they be intermixed somewhat (i.e. Ban 3, Pick 3, Ban 2, Pick 2)?

RiotMeddlerNov 29, 20168 votes

We've got some approaches in mind. We're gathering some feedback still though, so not quite ready to talk details. Also pretty possible we're ready to talk bans for Pro and other organized play (tournament draft) before we're ready to talk about bans for regular play (Normal Draft, Flex, Solo/Duo queues). Fairly high likelihood they take somewhat different approaches, given the different contexts (e.g. in organized play you know who your opponents are).

HigeNov 29, 20163 votes

Meddler I think it'd be a nice idea if you guys implemented a system that banned something random if the person doesn't choose a ban instead of dropping them from queue and giving them a loss, if this was the case the banning phase could get a time reduction to like 5 or 10 seconds and so the whole process would go a lot faster!

In actuality a lot of people don't choose until the clock is ticking, some because don't realize it's their turn and some because the ticking is the only thing that makes them choose faster.

StephenizgodNov 29, 20165 votes

It would be more wise for it just to be more noticeable when it is your turn to ban. Banning random champions is a terrible idea, I would rather just let that person dodge and move on to a team that is actually paying attention.

RiotMeddlerNov 30, 201615 votes

If I had to guess I'd say with 10 bans we might just not kick on no ban, rather than forcing a random one. That's not confirmed, but something we've been talking about certainly.

Huang ShaotianNov 30, 20161 votes

{quoted}

If I had to guess I'd say with 10 bans we might just not kick on no ban, rather than forcing a random one. That's not confirmed, but something we've been talking about certainly.

Awesome! please do that.

Can you also pass on the to the relevant people to make option to put yourself/team straight back into queue with a high wait time when you get a remake?

It's completely ridiculous spending 20 minutes through queue, champ select, game time, remake. Only have to wait in queue from scratch again.

teardeemNov 30, 20163 votes

especially in pro play skipping a ban might actually a valid strategy(depending on how the pick/ban phase is implemented) in order to get certain champs/force certain picks

AMYS GRAVEDec 1, 20162 votes

If I had to guess I'd say with 10 bans we might just not kick on no ban,

That's certainly the approach i would take, it kinda sucks if you are about to ban someone with a few seconds left and your internet lags a bit right there leading to a loss....

RepetitionDec 1, 20162 votes

I hope you guys are keeping in mind the philosophy previously stated by Riot where the game you see the pros play is the same game you yourself can go and play, having different ban systems drastically changes this.

warpenguin555Nov 29, 20162 votes

Have you guys decided on what to do about a champion if they're permabanned? Lots of people expect that Yasuo, Vayne, Zed and others will end up with around a 90% ban rate regardless of how strong they actually are just because people dont want to play against those champions.

Rengar Top LaneNov 30, 20161 votes

{quoted}

We've got some approaches in mind. We're gathering some feedback still though, so not quite ready to talk details. Also pretty possible we're ready to talk bans for Pro and other organized play (tournament draft) before we're ready to talk about bans for regular play (Normal Draft, Flex, Solo/Duo queues). Fairly high likelihood they take somewhat different approaches, given the different contexts (e.g. in organized play you know who your opponents are).

I honestly may as well main a new champion because of the broken rengar rework and adcs already hated rengar to start with. Unless Rengar is literally nerfed into the ground I do not see mains being able to play him again, Meddler.

RexSaurNov 30, 20161 votes

{quoted}

We've got some approaches in mind. We're gathering some feedback still though, so not quite ready to talk details. Also pretty possible we're ready to talk bans for Pro and other organized play (tournament draft) before we're ready to talk about bans for regular play (Normal Draft, Flex, Solo/Duo queues). Fairly high likelihood they take somewhat different approaches, given the different contexts (e.g. in organized play you know who your opponents are).

Please do it snake draft style so you dont completely murder OTPs with this change, 10 bans upfront is too much.

Spencer1KNov 30, 20161 votes

can we just copy Dota 2's ban system? Like seriously, Dota 2 hit the nail on the head with their pick/ban phase because it offers a ton of unique strategies.

KorilloNov 29, 20161 votes

It was this thread. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/99Oykczu-so-about-10-bans.

My bad though that was a month ago, I just happened to be reading it today . Anyway, you actually got a Meddler response here so that works even better :p.