Tibber's revenge outclasses Sion's passive

Ben Sharpio·Oct 1, 2016·123 votes·4,798 views

Literally everything stops sion's passive from doing anything. Sion can be stunned twice from the same CC like jinx's traps, ok, whatever. It's the fact that the most minuscule of slows can completely stop sion's passive from doing anything because anyone can simply outrun it. Meanwhile, Tibbers runs at you at 600 miles an hour/has more HP/Deals enough damage to secure her kills after dying ect. Nerf her tibber's reliability so that its equal to the reliability of a late game sion's passive.

154 Comments

RalanrOct 1, 2016101 votes

Or, OR, buff Sion's passive.

Just a suggestion. Doesn't need to be taken seriously, but it's out there.

Edit: I'm joking people. Sion's fine. Sure I get frustrations, but who doesn't?

TheHowesterOct 1, 201628 votes

{quoted}

Or, OR, buff Sion's passive.

Just a suggestion. Doesn't need to be taken seriously, but it's out there.

YES PLEASE RITO

Best princess EUOct 2, 201615 votes

remove the 1.5 sec delay of his passive or reduce it to 0.5 sec

TheHowesterOct 2, 201614 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sanji fanboy,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h1RpEQTp,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-02T10:07:22.463+0000)

remove the 1.5 sec delay of his passive or reduce it to 0.5 sec

Honestly Im fine with the dealy; that gives it fine counterplay. What Im NOT fine with is...well everything else. The damage, while good early, is pretty bad late game if you dont have some AD items, your sustain worsens over time, and 1 slow stops you indefinitely.

Gosh DarnOct 2, 20167 votes

The problem is the imbalance in how effective he would be. The delay is necessary if he has a self-haste. If you take away part of the delay, you have to weaken the haste. If he's allowed to just sprint after his target immediately after death you'll have immobile champions getting fucking obliterated with almost no counterplay while the mobile champions will spam laugh while they dash over a wall.

Immobile champions also tend to have longer cooldowns on their CC, so after killing a Sion there's basically nothing they can do. I think that's the real issue, there's a huge divide between what affects mobile and immobile champions.

Brain Errör 404Oct 2, 20162 votes

Kinda like what tibbers does now?

I hate killing that little b--- only to get roasted by her toy bear. Sometimes I just wanna rip the cotton out o---

Getting a bit too violent. Salt levels rising.

agbudarOct 1, 20166 votes

his passive should give him full controll over what he does not just give him 1 ability on all 4 buttons

an actuall significant speedboost during his passive would also help

TheHowesterOct 2, 20168 votes

{quoted}

his passive should give him full controll over what he does not just give him 1 ability on all 4 buttons

an actuall significant speedboost during his passive would also help

Or something that is more interesting than merely a speedboost....maybe he gets something new for each skill maxed?

AramsAreBestOct 2, 20163 votes

I would say Sion is strong enough already

DracocrashOct 2, 20162 votes

lol why do you have downvotes.

Pierce The VealOct 2, 201618 votes

{quoted}

Or, OR, buff Sion's passive.

Just a suggestion. Doesn't need to be taken seriously, but it's out there.

Remove the bullshit revive delay. Let his movespeed ability last longer. Let the movespeed ability reset if he kills an enemy during passive.

RalanrOct 2, 20165 votes

This is what I'd like removed the most.

FantasySniperOct 2, 20161 votes

Basically this. Wouldn't mind some automatic slow resist and tenacity while we're at it.

He has the weakest death passive in the game. Kog can force flashes, Karthus can use all of his abilities, Aatrox, Zac, and Anivia get second lives... but Sion? He waddles towards you and only has a chance at killing you if you've used all of your cooldowns and are at less than 25% health.

FaustavianOct 2, 20162 votes

Now, I'm willing to bet Sion's passive is better than Aatrox's, Because at least Sion gets his full health bar back (although decaying, but lifesteal makes up for that) and a speed boost to chase down enemies, even better with item 3022 . With aatrox, you're lucky if your Q is up to run away; much less keep fighting with a ton less attack speed than you had.

I'd rather have sion's passive than aatrox's

MohawkBirdOct 2, 20168 votes

That's completely overkill. I get it, Sion's passive isn't the greatest, but removing the delay and increasing his MS is going to become overpowered FAST.

Pierce The VealOct 4, 20162 votes

{quoted}

That's completely overkill. I get it, Sion's passive isn't the greatest, but removing the delay and increasing his MS is going to become overpowered FAST.

None of what I said will break him. It will just give him an actual passive.

MohawkBirdOct 4, 20161 votes

LOL.

It's funny how you think removing the delay, adding a reset, and increasing his movespeed burst won't break his passive. Removing the delay alone is already a powerful as hell buff to his passive.

Pierce The VealOct 5, 20162 votes

{quoted}

LOL.

It's funny how you think removing the delay, adding a reset, and increasing his movespeed burst won't break his passive. Removing the delay alone is already a powerful as hell buff to his passive.

It is required for his passive to actually have any threat. I don't even play sion, and currently, I can just walk away from his passive form as almost every champion.

MohawkBirdOct 6, 20161 votes

You are asking for way too many things at once, though, and that is bound to make his passive overpowered if those things were all implemented at once. A small buff here or there can have a huge impact, and if it is not enough, then they can continue to buff accordingly. The fact that you having all of those things added won't break his passive, especially for those who don't have low cooldown dashes, is kinda ignorant if you ask me.

Milodic MellodiOct 7, 20161 votes

Then instead of taking his ideas as one whole buff, instead think of them as separate ideas.

MohawkBirdOct 8, 20162 votes

I would if that is what he actually implied. The way he said it, and his replies to my response to him show that he didn't mean to have it as separate ideas.

Pierce The VealOct 8, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You are asking for way too many things at once, though, and that is bound to make his passive overpowered if those things were all implemented at once. A small buff here or there can have a huge impact, and if it is not enough, then they can continue to buff accordingly. The fact that you having all of those things added won't break his passive, especially for those who don't have low cooldown dashes, is kinda ignorant if you ask me.

Movespeed resetting on kill is auxillary, if you add it, odds are by the time you kill someone the drain is going to be too large for you to even keep going. The delay is several seconds long, seriously like it's not even possible to make up for it if his movespeed bonus doubled. As for increasing his movespeed bonus? It lasts only 1.5 seconds and decays over that period, which is seriously trash. And funny thing is, it doesn't matter if he builds attack speed, as he's forced to have 1.75 attack speed in that form.

Lookie here m8. I don't play Sion, never have, never will. I have nothing to gain by saying Sion should get these things, but it's obvious you have some qualms with sion actually havig a working passive.

DracocrashOct 2, 20161 votes

Sion is balanced...
People like you who can't play him will ask for buffs, he will become op for the ones who CAN play him and riot will gut him (because they never revert changes) and everyone is unhappy.

TheHowesterOct 2, 20167 votes

I understand what you're saying, and its true...to an extent. Just his passive is quite infuriating to use at times.

Tychusfindlay919Oct 2, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Or, OR, buff Sion's passive.

Just a suggestion. Doesn't need to be taken seriously, but it's out there.

Edit: I'm joking people. Sion's fine. Sure I get frustrations, but who doesn't?

You shouldn't be joking, Sion has an entire passive that is only useful as a mediocre zoning tool for a couple seconds.

kasfasOct 2, 201619 votes

I'm pretty sure sion's move speed is hard capped to a max of 345 during his passive, which explains why he can't catch up to people, even when he has more move speed. There are SO many numbers of things that can be done for sion passive, but allowing him to move at the speed that is listed on his stats would be a start.

Other options include: 1- making his damage scale with HIS max health rather than his enemies.

2-giving him something better than 200% life steal seeing as he doesn't build much ad with those few exceptions being very LOW in ad.

3-Give him some bonus tenacity (maybe 15%?).

4-Give him immunity to slows.

5-Give him scaling AD that applies only in passive form to make his autos do actual DAMAGE to squishes and make the lifesteal useful (say 20-90 AD).

6-Give him a slow on his autos.

7-Make his health drain not apply while hard ccd or in stasis.

8-make him immune to grievous wounds.

9-make him deal aoe damage on attack. (Not recommended)

10-give him a suppression if he autos the same target X times(where 2>= X <= 4) (interesting, but not recommended).

11-Give him damage immunity from sources other than his own bleeding. (Not to be combined with cc immunity/ reduction).

12-Make his passive reduce targets armour by the greater of 10 or 10% (potentially scaling from 5 to 20 or something) with every hit up to 3 times.

13-make his speed boost more potent and give it a longer duration.

14-Increase bleed effect, make immune cc of all types.(not recommended)

15-give him a slowing aura (not recommended).

16-Give him scaling move speed towards targets.

17- Make all spells used and damage done to him increase his move speed proportional to the damage dealt.

18- give him move speed on attack.

19-Make his attack animation not cancel movement commands (what I mean is if he autos, he doesn't stop moving to do so).

AND 20-Make him deal a lot of burst damage in one auto which gets reduced every subsequent attack.

These are some of my ideas (and a few popular opinions) of what could be done to make sion passive a bit better. If I were riot I would focus on the ones that make it better late game/ the ones that can scale, because that is when it tends to suck the most.

TheHowesterOct 2, 20164 votes

I think 2 is mostly needed, because even if he's on his target, he doesn't heal that much late game, nor does it do that much damage. Make the healing % of his max health, so it can support tanky builds.

It Hertz When IPOct 2, 20161 votes

As far as 9, don't most Sions buy item 3077 anyway?

kasfasOct 2, 20162 votes

Meh, sometimes. If they get a titanic, but not every game.

Koala FrenzyOct 1, 201617 votes

The tibbers revenge thing should just be removed. Annie is plenty powerful while she is alive.

CaítlynOct 1, 201612 votes

^ this

She already does 200% of my hp in 1 combo. If I can somehow kill her Tibbers needs to disappear.

Sans HamaOct 2, 201611 votes

{quoted}

^ this

She already does 200% of my hp in 1 combo. If I can somehow kill her Tibbers needs to disappear.

Name checks out

PC Trash Go AwayOct 2, 20166 votes

And she's not a goddamn necromancer or an undead, so there's no reason for her to have any influence on the field while she's dead.

RavenMagusOct 2, 20163 votes

If we can get back reliability in her ult or w, sure. ;)

To be honest though Tibbers enrage is honestly less cancerous than the autohit W/Rs were.

Especially since half the time Tibbers derps off and attacks the wrong target or just goes after minions.

NineTailedMysticOct 2, 20163 votes

The W/R fixes are something they've been doing for a while now with similar abilities on other champions, like Darius E, and they've been experimenting with a similar 'check on cast' ability that is Chogath W on PBE. Something that is definitely needed as to how bullshit it was to Flash before the bear was put down, but still be stunned and nuked since you were there during the cast time. She's still plenty reliable, its just enemies have a chance to react.

The Tibber's Enrage mechanic is something I think they put there just for the sake of changing one of the oldest champions, despite it having no place for Annie.

Baron of BreadOct 2, 20165 votes

It makes it so Tibbers actually matters once he is a minion. Before the change once he was summoned you could basically ignore him, now you might have to pay attention. I think that is a very worthwhile change.

She also needed a buff to go with the loss of reliability. Every champ that had one of these fixes has gotten some compensation.

NineTailedMysticOct 2, 20161 votes

But why is she rewarded for dying? She isn't Karthus with a love of undeath, or an undead juggernaut, so why does she get such a strong influence for dying?

AnidanOct 3, 20161 votes

Because you pissed off her guardian that she ensorcelled herself. Makes enough sense to me. This is like hurting the Little Sister of a Big Daddy.

NineTailedMysticOct 3, 20162 votes

Except the magic she presumably uses to animate him would also end along with her life.

LeetriOct 3, 20162 votes

Wouldn't Tibbers last forever once she dies then? Tibbers was a shadow bear (whatever that is) and Annie managed to turn him into a pet with her magic. Once she dies, the magic disappears, and Tibbers would turn back into the shadow bear and be forever free to roam around.

CerealBoxOfDoomOct 2, 201617 votes

Problem?

Why should a passive outclass an ultimate?

RequiemsfireOct 2, 201618 votes

Because Tibbers revenge is only the passive of her ultimate while her passive is one of the most powerful abilities in the game?

Best princess EUOct 2, 20161 votes

you're fcking serious?

sion's passive in no way outclass annie ulti, annie ulti 50/0 a whole team while her own passive is so strong, then tibbers continue to deal massive damage without forgetting the ulti passive.

DracocrashOct 2, 201613 votes

the person stated "why should a passive outclass an ultimate, not "sions passive outclasses annies ultimate""

Reading skills 0/10

CerealBoxOfDoomOct 2, 20165 votes

what are you responding to even lol

oSEXYPLATYPUSoOct 1, 201612 votes

tibers and sions passive are two different things

l Dárius lOct 2, 20168 votes

Sion's passive is worthless in general and it should probably be changed or buffed. I think it is actually the only thing Riot did wrong with Sion

VeltoxOct 2, 20167 votes

Sion passive sucks ass in general don't blame Annie for that.

it be lìke thatOct 2, 20165 votes

yet another person calling jinx's snare a stun...

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

invisiblecat1Oct 2, 20163 votes

Sion Passive needs to be buffed, Tibberz is okay. Literally one flaw, hook, or slow and your passive becomes useless. I have gotten very few Sion kills after playing him for 2 years