"Sustained Burst Damage"

xJLx MCHammer·Jun 11, 2017·101 votes·5,128 views

I believe that's the word that a caster used to describe ADC's, specifically a Twitch

Just watching that game proves that the description was right.

A Leblanc W's into his range and Q +E's him only to be forced to go W back because two autos at 28 minutes takes her down to 15% hp. Attacking from 900 range while in stealth to certain champions means certain death with no counterplay. Most adc can't counter that. Sure a LEE sin can always W away but not everyone has that in their kit.

I've seen a this little rat burst down assassins who are on trying to assassinate him..

129 Comments

THE RlVER KlNGJun 11, 201736 votes

It's not just Twitch either.

Sugar MommaJun 11, 201716 votes

Anyone else remember the days Jinx could auto and ult you point blank range for half or more of your HP?

THE RlVER KlNGJun 11, 201726 votes

When I'm playing against a mid lane Yasuo, it's not his Wind Wall or his dashes or his knockup triggers me the most. It's the fact that if I'm playing some squishy mage I'm dead in 3 autos because of crit.

DaNinadJun 11, 201720 votes

vayne and draven can both burst more than twitch, but twitch has the teamfight, stealth, range, as buff, aoe slow that they don't.

xJLx MCHammerJun 11, 201712 votes

{quoted}

vayne and draven can both burst more than twitch, but twitch has the teamfight, stealth, range, as buff, aoe slow that they don't.

Draven is a problem too

Good luck trying to dive him mid to late game. He can chunk a huge amount with one auto tanks who try and dive him.

Vayne has enough counter play in terms of her range that she is not a problem despite being sustain burst damage type as well...

Darth StepVaderJun 11, 201718 votes

Adc's in general are constantly being buffed, not just twich.

SulghunterJun 11, 201710 votes

How do you think the ADC players felt when the assassins were deleting their champions with contemptuous ease, before the recent changes?

How do you think the ADC players felt when everyone always responded with "you built no defense items, you shouldn't expect survival"?

How do you think the ADC players felt when the assassins kept deleting their champions, with next to no risk of reprisal?

At least now, you know how the ADC players felt in the first point, and I shall help you in the second point: did you build ANY defensive items on your assassin champion, or did you double-down on your damage, and build only damage items?

deadlychuckJun 11, 201726 votes

(extremely sarcastic and unenthusiastic voice) Oh, man wooh, battle of the binary insta kill gameplay, so compelling so exciting.

SulghunterJun 11, 20178 votes

I am not saying that ADCs should be able to delete assassins in short order, rather, I just want to point out how complaints against assassin power were received by the forums at large.

Also, one does have to wonder, what do people expect when the class that has the firepower necessary to bring down tanks with any sense of speed, brings said firepower to bear against champions that usually build next to no defenses?

deadlychuckJun 11, 20178 votes

Well this is exactly the problem that assassins create with how they were added to the game.

The room for flexibility in a system which wants marksmen to kill tanks, tanks to beat up assassins, and assassins to burst down marksmen, is extremely limited. Any small deviation from a very precise balancing point causes everything to go haywire. Which is before you divide the assassins class into AD and AP, which means mage changes are now also limited thanks to the fact that changing items for Mages might cause significant side effects to the assassin class throwing the previously mentioned balanced completely off, same with the fighter/juggernaut items.

Honestly, assassins just need their own stat. Something besides AD and AP to act as a core scaling stat for their damage, without it, you just have an unstable mess that's only held up by constant reinforcement of the current weakest point.

mrgiraffeweevilJun 12, 20171 votes

Wasn't that the purpose of lethality?

MelledoneusJun 12, 20173 votes

Lethality is not its own stat, because it is only a setup for building raw damage.

woodvsmurphJun 12, 20172 votes

They shouldn't BE killing tanks half as fast as they do. Furthermore, assassins like talon or zed or ahri don't have the sustain to kill tanks as quickly as adc's do because their damage comes in moderate cd BURSTS. Such bursts plus their moderate sustain damage is SUPPOSED be be what kills enemy adc's because the burst should be giving them enough of a head start. That's how the game is SUPPOSED to be balanced - with adjustments having been made to increase the time it takes for that burst to apply; however that similarly means that by the time it does apply, the next round of burst should be that much closer to being off cd. It's no different than a bruiser like riven or renekton or darius fighting a melee assassin - the bruiser is DESIGNED to win that due to having the resistances and raw damage to make their burst trades even while the bruiser has more hp and resistances to let him survive. It's SUPPOSED to be kinda like a giant game of rock-paper-scissors but with more than just those 3 options to choose from; but adc's are just able to outscale anyone while matching other roles' damage and carry potential by mid game barring people getting extremely fed or behind.

freeloader25Jun 11, 201710 votes

uhm. what? those two situations arent even remotely comparable.

if you are an adc and cant kill the enemies assassin in a 1v1... well... you stand back? you kill their tanks? their frontline? you still are useful and able to do what you are supposed to do by good positioning.

if you are an assassin and cant kill a fkn adc in a 1v1 when you are even in gold and ahead in lvls you might aswell disconnect because going for the frontline is the most useless thing you can do as assassin.

for your second point: its just completely retarded to assume the assassin should be the one in need of defensive stats when facing an adc in a 1v1.

deadlychuckJun 11, 20173 votes

for your second point: its just completely retarded to assume the assassin should be the one in need of defensive stats when facing an adc in a 1v1.

It really isn't though... most of the current "assassins" use to be classified as a fighters. The only real exception to this was kat and kass who were considered more of a mage. Hell, riot changed the classifications of Nocturn from fighter -> Assassin and Rengar from Assassin -> fighter. **Despite Nocturn literally seeing no significant changes since the first release of the subclass rosters. ** It's by no means unreasonable to think that the assassins should be faced with buying a defensive item.

SulghunterJun 11, 20173 votes

This is comparable. ADCs were getting deleted before they could even do their jobs. Now, assassins are getting shot to pieces before they can do their job. This is simply two sides of the same coin, whether one damage class can get the drop on the other.

xJLx MCHammerJun 11, 20173 votes

{quoted}

This is comparable. ADCs were getting deleted before they could even do their jobs. Now, assassins are getting shot to pieces before they can do their job. This is simply two sides of the same coin, whether one damage class can get the drop on the other.

Except an ADC now has more tools and usefulness than ever before

They can siege, safety, scaling...

The ones that a really getting hit hard are mages that don't have burst but "sustained" damage.

SulghunterJun 12, 20172 votes

Yet, do the assassins not have superb mobility, or even get-out-jail-free abilities? Do the assassins not have abilities that give little chance to it's targets?

When an assassin fails to take down the ADC before the ADC can reply, I feel that the assassin has failed, and deserves the consequences.

CithriaCJun 12, 20179 votes

Assassins should be able to kill a lone adc if they hit all of their abilities. When an ADC reacts, it's by right clicking on the assassin. The problem is that a lone ADC can kill an assassin before they kill them(When alone)(Lifesteal Creep?).

When an ADC is useless(in fights), they can still take down turrets and objectives the fastest.(Sustained Damage) When Assassins can't kill the (lone)ADC, they are useless.

undesirable teamJun 11, 20178 votes

cus the ittle rat is broken with no counterplay

StaliniumJun 11, 20177 votes

which one? Kennen Twitch

Sraeg2013Jun 12, 20172 votes

Yes.

Serika ZeroJun 12, 20178 votes

Remember "adc lulz 0k17"? its always been an adc meta, it will always be

its just fun that assassins got "nerfed" for counterplay, while adcs still point and click their way though

DunkinNoobsJun 11, 20176 votes

A Twitch doing that much damage at 28 minutes is fed as fuck when he shouldn't be.

xJLx MCHammerJun 11, 201749 votes

{quoted}

A Twitch doing that much damage at 28 minutes is fed as fuck when he shouldn't be.

watch the game

they were down in global gold. He had less gold then the LB...

MelledoneusJun 12, 20179 votes

No, he has a point. The moment a Twitch gets even a part of his core is "fed as fuck."

SalsonJun 11, 20176 votes

He doesn't really need extra AD on his ult. Increasing duration to 5/6/7 from 5, butt removing the damage should fix his burst.

GayFluffyUnicornJun 12, 20174 votes

Or we just nerf him straight and see where he stands afterwards. Can we stop compensating every nerf to obviously overpowered champs? Hello ahri, hello twitch, hello yasuo.

LordOfTheLeagueJun 11, 20175 votes

#StartbyremovingcritbonusdamageonIE2017

xJLx MCHammerJun 11, 201713 votes

{quoted}

#StartbyremovingcritbonusdamageonIE2017

I don't even know why it was buff during the tank rework

Even Phreak's video, he questioned it and couldn't understand the reasoning behind it...

EROTIC RAID BOSSJun 11, 20179 votes

because crit adcs were weaker at the time and because they wanted to tone down armor pen without making adcs unable to kill tanks pretty much

AirKingNeoJun 12, 20175 votes

Then why would people buy IE. It would give 20% crit, and 70 AD, and nothing else.

Sounds like a useless item buy.

MelledoneusJun 12, 20172 votes

Replace the crit damage with an auto attack ramp up on crits.

Boom, problem solved. And before you complain about caster ADCs, they're not supposed to go crit.

AirKingNeoJun 12, 20171 votes

item 3508

MelledoneusJun 12, 20171 votes

Still meant for ADCs who auto attack, but use mana to cast abilities a bit more.

Jhin for example, who needs to use his auto attacks wisely and chain his abilities to amplify the build-up and make use of the execution damage on his fourth shot.

EROTIC RAID BOSSJun 14, 20171 votes

its also about the CDR more than anything

BlåbæretJun 11, 20175 votes

Everyone knows Twitch is too strong. He spikes once he gets hurricane and continues to spike throughout the entirety of the game. He needs to be nerfed. Been sitting at a ridiculous 54% win rate for far too long.

Oblivious DenialJun 11, 20175 votes

Just take away his hurricane/ult interaction, like they did with Cait and her passive. This will force him to only target one person (or a single line of people) at a time. Yeah, it'll still auto when he ults, but it just won't have the range of it.

korg023Jun 12, 20171 votes

While this can be a good idea in terms of balance, it is terrible idea in terms of consistency. Imagine a new player reads Hurricane description and buys hurricane on twitch and sees its not working whit his ult? He would think it is a bug since it doesent make any sense not to work on his ult since its just auto attacks. You cant just delete item passives on certain champions just cause they can abuse them. You can however rework champion ability or complete item but not do that. That would be just retarded for some items to not work on some champions just for sake of balance and zero logic.

Oblivious DenialJun 14, 20171 votes

Just make a note of it on the ability at the bottom.

JusticePauldronsJun 12, 20173 votes

Uhm, this was a scenario where he outplayed her completely. Sorry but in terms of damage assassins and ADC's both know what they are getting themselves into. By diving on Twitch like that as a squishy you put yourself into harms way. Assassins normally have mobility to allow them to target specific champions or circumvent enemy teams to get at their target, but some adcs have tools in their kits to escape it.

Not to mention it also largely depends on each persons items, if Leblanc didn't have the damage to pull off the kill immediately than she didn't assassinate her target and deserves to get punished for it.

The EcdysiastJun 12, 20177 votes

Right clicking is outplay?

xJLx MCHammerJun 12, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Uhm, this was a scenario where he outplayed her completely. Sorry but in terms of damage assassins and ADC's both know what they are getting themselves into. By diving on Twitch like that as a squishy you put yourself into harms way. Assassins normally have mobility to allow them to target specific champions or circumvent enemy teams to get at their target, but some adcs have tools in their kits to escape it.

Not to mention it also largely depends on each persons items, if Leblanc didn't have the damage to pull off the kill immediately than she didn't assassinate her target and deserves to get punished for it.

If a assassin has the same gold as an ADC, I really do think the assassin should win. Granted there are some ADC that should and could win.

What I don't understand is why ADC have burst damage Why does a crit from a Cait take 2,000 damage? Why does a Twitch get to stealth and attack you from 900 range with his stealth?

PrinceOfStormsJun 12, 20173 votes

Uhm, this was a scenario where he outplayed her completely.

If you can call a-moving "outplaying" sure.

SintamaJun 12, 20173 votes

Caitlyn is the same. Sustained Critical Burst Healing Damage. 2 autos gets her back to full health. You have to stop her from attacking completely, for at least 10 seconds, or you'll never kill her.

Synnx7Jun 11, 20171 votes

Welcome to One Right Click from range and you're almost one shooted MOBA. So much skill https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2tfe5sv9GM I had to watch it twice cuz i didnt saw how the fuck kat died Or press Q, target, and click = dead. Keep in mind im not targetting MF mains wont fucking rage at me defending their lovely porn adc. This is with all adcs

DJMason88Jun 11, 20172 votes

This video is old and has an outdated item in it...

Great OzymandiusJun 11, 20176 votes

To be fair, MF set up the minion and kat walked right in front of it. Kat misplayed bigtime.

NipsahoyJun 12, 2017

I don't think these boards will ever be happy until everyone can kill marksmen super easily and they need 50 minutes to be useful. I mean you have threads complaining about crit, you have threads complaining about life steal, you have threads complaining about marksmen being too strong with three items. I mean some people apparently want a marksmen to be unable to play the game unless they have four other people shielding/peeling for them continually.

These are the same people that apparently are fine with assassins bursting a marksmen down in .2 seconds before they can react just because assassin mad skills or a Syndra missing all her skills and then pressing R and getting a kill because they are supposed to burst people down even if they can't land 75% of their combo.