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Reworking Towers With True Damage

Shuyin178··32 votes·2,221 views

The best way to give power to towers is to have them deal True Damage. One of the frustrating things in the game right now is how pathetic towers can feel after you get a Chain Vest. ADCs can now tank tower shots because of them getting GA early, thus getting armor to tank tower hits with. Sure it's not much help for ADCs, but it's still a thing going on.

The best way to go about buffing towers so tanks have to tank tower shots is to give them True Damage or have a portion of the damage be True Damage (like how Corki can deal half Physical and half Magic damage). This will make it where tanks have to be the ones to take tower shots because with True Damage the only way to deal with it is HP, not resistances because you can't weaken True Damage.

The scaling would obviously have to be up to Riot, but as a base line towers should feel like threats at every part of the game (early, mid, and late). As of right now turrets are not punishing enough on divers to help the ones being dove, with this 1 change it will assist enormously because towers should be broken and not jokes at a comedy theater.

49 Comments

Ralanr9 votes

Considering they nerfed HP from items in favor for resistances, this wouldn't be that helpful for tanks.

Yaśuo Main7 votes

I think after every shot, the damage increase should be true damage. So if the turret shot does 150 damage, the next one instead of doing 50 more physical damage, that damage is true damage. And so on.

Quepha2 votes

The diving the OP is complaining about are quick dives where the champion only takes one, maybe two shots.

Increasing the strength of the damage ramp up does virtually nothing against those champions and further discourages tanks from being the ones willing to take tower shots.

Irelia Bot4 votes

Why not make them ignore shields instead?

Ralanr2 votes

That would also hurt tanks (though it'd mainly hurt supports).

Irelia Bot2 votes

I'm not trying to make tanks unable to take a few hits.

I am trying to make it so that a Naut or poppy can't take 30+ turret shots and still be above half health.

Ralanr5 votes

Why hate tanks for doing what they're good for and why make it so their team wouldn't support then?

Irelia Bot1 votes

Why make turrets effectively do nothing?

Ralanr2 votes

Because late game it's not their job to be useful, it's your job to protect them.

Automated Riven3 votes

I would rather see the damage changed to 50% magic and 50% ad. It was suggested before but has never been attempted. That way tanks can't build pure armor and tank for days. And reducing the armor to buy mr does negate more but it's still more threatening.

B00STED RIVEN12 votes

yeah i agree nerf irelia

hhaavviikk1 votes

{quoted}

yeah i agree nerf Malzahar

Fix'd

Quepha4 votes

{quoted}

The best way to go about buffing towers so tanks have to tank tower shots is to give them True Damage

Tanks, who build a ton of extra resistances, will be more incentivized to tank tower shots when the tower ignores a large portion of their resistances...

Did you really think this through?

Baron of Bread1 votes

They also tend to build a decent chunk of HP, or at least did before they lost a ton of HP on all of their items.

Quepha2 votes

They sure do, but hp is also built by divers, juggernauts, supports and mages. While some defense options for carries do provide a little bit of resistances, tanks are really the only class expected to straight up stack both kinds of resists, meaning they are the class most scared of true damage.

To make Tower shots more threatening to carries without really worrying tanks much more, then you would want to increase the raw damage of towers or even give them flat pen.

Ralanr5 votes

"X who build Y will be more likely to do Z when Z ignores Y."

What?

Silverjust3 votes

I think, towers should just ramp-up more damage, and should not stop the ramp-up after 3 shots

JhomasTefferson2 votes

While i agree towers need more power, i dont think true damage is the answer. A small buff to their damage, and a large buff to their armor and mr would would be much better

SpecterVonBaren2 votes

No. Most of the squishy champs in the game get durability by building health, tanks are being tuned by Riot to like health but prefer resistances. What I hate is seeing assassins, ADC's, and other squishy damage dealers with all these abilities that allow them to ignore turrets or jump around them so fast that the turret doesn't have time to ramp up.

Make turrets more punishing to squishies, not tanks. Make it so turrets have some kind of grounding effect, like every third turret shot or something.

FNC Jinx1 votes

Yeah, poor tanks. They've only dictated the meta for like 4 years now.

SpecterVonBaren3 votes

Uh.... no? If any class has dictated the meta for the longest time it's marksmen.

Critmaster Garen2 votes

they should just do more damage overall.

not the increase in true dmage, nor % health true damage. because that punishes tanky champs more than those mobile and bursty champs who tend to get away with turret dives way too early on in the game.

tanks have to itemize into being able to withstand turrets. since theyre much slower and take more shots on average, most tanks and juggernauts cant tank turrets well until theyve built at least two full defensive items.

but turrets need to deal more damage to squishy adc, assassins and divers who are more mobile or have enough range to take very few shots on a dive in the first place. its those guys who dive in and out of a turret without taking more than two to three shots at lvl 4.

i think the entire ramping up damage mechanic of turret shorts is bullshit and only benefits hypermobile carries and makes turrets less threatening for them than they should be.

turrets should just deal their full damage upfront. i remember when they did, and squishies were a lot more careful about turret dives than they are, basically ever since they nerfed turrets with this mechanic.

if turrets would just deal more flat damage, then tanks would relatively feel only a very small impact compared to squishies trying to tank them.

now that they also gave more chmpion classes overall increased pushing power towards turrets and introduced rift herald as a tower sieging objective, they should strengthen turrets overall a bit more.

GULAG 4 U1 votes

So make tanks not able to do one of their jobs?! SEEMSGOOD forsenE

GrievousFetus1 votes

I actually do not think towers are too weak right now. Towers still do perfectly adequate damage to ADCs, to Mages, to Assassins, supports, and even some bruisers who don't build especially tanky like Riven or Fiora. Their powerful in early-mid game and rightfully fall off mid-late when you are meant to protect the towers, not the other way around.

All of that said, there is the obvious outlier of tanks. tanks can easily absorb tower shots starting around minute 8-10 for the rest of the match. Tower dives become simple, easy affairs when your Darius or Sejuani or whoever can absorb 10+ of them. It's a little too easy for your team to simply send in the tank first, and then your squishy damage dealers who definitely couldn't take more than 3 shots get to go untouched by a turret. I think an important change that could make tower diving more risky would be to alter tower aggro generation.

Consider this, when an enemy champion draws the tower's aggro (whether it be by having no minions present or by harming an ally champion in tower range) instead of the tower targetting that champion specifically, the tower would instead always target the enemy champion in range with the lowest current health, updating and potentially switching targets after every shot. Tower diving is now more risky for squishy damage dealers who can't simply rely on the tank to absorb all shots for them, but also introduces a new micromanagement element of juggling aggro around.

The current problem with towers is definitely not their damage type, and they're still adequate defenses until later into the game.

Cowseed1 votes

hmmmmmmmmmmm..... Why not just make it deal mixed damage like Jax. Then tanks become necessary for dives and don't lose too much effectiveness.

Spoofghoul1 votes

why not make the turrets deal one third of each damage type

and then give em slowly increasing out of combat regen

problem fixed

xJLx MCHammer1 votes

I saw a fed draven attack an she under turret

He took 5 tower shots because of her ult and still walked away...

FantasySniper1 votes

All [true damage] does is change armor stacking to health stacking, and it punishes tanks much more than the squishy troublemakers. Tanks are the ones we want turret diving, because they are ideally the ones that can't kill you under turret. Unlike the squishy troublemakers.

Pacattack251 votes

IMHO: I don't think the problem is necessarily the fact ADCs and the like are building resistances - when was the last time you saw a MAGE being able to tank turret shots - even if they have armor?

I think the REAL problem is lifesteal making it look like the turret isn't doing much damage - and if the adc is damaging YOU it's getting all of that lifesteal from doing so

Solution: Turrets now apply Grievious Wounds to champions it hits for ... 1 second after taking damage?

ManiacalCoyote1 votes

Make all towers do pure damage (Like the Fountain), but scaling up as you get closer to the Nexus. How about 500 for Outer, 750 for Inner, and 1000 for Inhib and Nexus?

Stephen The G1 votes

1000 damage for inhib and nexus turrets wtf

ManiacalCoyote1 votes

Defenses should get progressively stronger as you progress inwards. Okay, 250 for outer, 500 for inner, and 750 for inhib, but the last line of defense should feel fairly potent. Hell, give it splash damage, so it could whittle down the whole minion wave while mauling the super.

Stephen The G1 votes

the games would last forever

ManiacalCoyote1 votes

And the problem with long games is? The problem with epic battles to take a tower is? The problem with massive tanks and juggernauts being valuable is?

You should be glad; in a late-game meta, carries are needed to bring down objectives like towers and epic monsters.

I just don't like it when games fizzle out quickly with one side instantly dominating; I love those epic toe-to-toe wars where you can come back and win with your nexus open.

WTBeGirl100EUhr1 votes

Making turrets OP isn't a way of accomplishing "open nexus toe-to-toe". All it does is enforce a poke/siege/waveclear meta where games stall to 50 minutes every game because it's impossible to close out a lead.

It's not "long, epic game". It's long, boring game.

And don't g et me wrong - I am TOTALLY with you on preferring back and forth games... this just isn't how you accomplish it.

ManiacalCoyote1 votes

Long wars like that, my champion would be hella powerful. Imagine a 1000 stack Nasus darting in to chip away at the turret with a item 3078-empowered Q.

WTBeGirl100EUhr1 votes

This is about as poor reasoning as it comes when it comes to actual gameplay discussion. It's not about your champion, it's about all of them.

FilDaFunk1 votes

Would that leave Alistar without his identity?

Shuyin1781 votes

Alistar's identity is to tank shots from the enemy team as a super tank, it doesn't matter if he can't tank tower shots because it isn't super needed.

AL0001 votes

i am fine if it apply on 1, 2 and 3... not 4th as outside IMHO.

SociopathFriend1 votes

but as a base line towers should feel like threats at every part of the game (early, mid, and late).

"Should"? Sorry but the developers of the game disagree with what you think the towers "should" feel like.

Hemulen Magi1 votes

I think they should just have an extra 50%-100% damage dealt to champions across the board. No need to mess with true damage, which is just going to disproportionately harm tanks who invest in armor because tanking turrets is one of their specializations... I think the biggest issue is the assassins and ADCs diving turrets without needing the help of a tank to absorb the shots... Though tanks are tanking the turrets too easily as well, they aren't the biggest problem in my opinion.

By the way, the reason I say they should deal more damage specifically to champions is because dealing more damage to minions will really mess up certain champions who already struggle to CS if they get pushed under a turret.

AlienPrimate2 votes

They already changed minion - tower mechanics a few patches ago. Towers now always do a set % amount of damage to a minions health. It doesn't matter if a tower does more damage or a minion gets more armor. The tower will always do the same. This is a guess, but it is something like 45% to melee minions and 80% to caster minions.

Rıots Bad Client1 votes

instead of true damage, what about just flat armor shred per shot.

This way it just hits early tanks, but not hitting mid/late game that hard, this way you can also keep the guys with Damage reduction actually slick in shape.

SinofAtlas1 votes

I see one problem with this. They just nerfed tanks. Or rather the item sets for tanks. Resistances over HP. This would hurt the tanks even more so, making them not as reliable to do the job that they were given.

TwinkiePro1 votes

Have it do physical, ramping up to magic damage, 0-100%, and then after do the same to true damage.

or have it do a set physical damage, and adding magical damage til it totals double, then adding on true damage until the numbers show triple or quadruple.

Change the ramp up per shot and it should solve most issues i think as only actual tanks could take the damage.

Silent Reaper1 votes

The entire point of having towers not deal true damage was so that tank CAN tower dive you. If you don't like it when non-tanks dive you, then ask for a damage buff not a damage type switch.

junglerboy161 votes

I'd rather them ignore base armor.

No changes to their damage whatsoever, but they'll hurt like hell against a squishy, especially early game when they should, but a tank with a few armor items will feel about as good against the tower late game like they ought to.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

"ADCs can now tank tower shots because of them getting GA early" Hang on, they've been doing that since season 6 with any major lifesteal item. Up for having turrets do more damage though.

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