@Meddler: Is there anything going on with Thornmail?

darkdill··2 votes·412 views

Even in its edge cases, Thornmail has poor effectiveness by this point. It's basically got the same problems as WotA did, only worse.

Enemies counter it by getting magic resistance or lifesteal, or by dealing damage with abilities rather than auto-attacks. This greatly defeats its purpose and effectiveness. There are also new items that hard-counter Thornmail: Phantom Dancer, which reduces incoming Thorns damage by 12%, and Death's Dance, which staggers 15% of the Thornmail damage over time, both which make Thornmail highly ineffective.

Players who use Thornmail need bonus armor for the actual damage, HP so they don't die, and MPen so the magic damage of Thornmail isn't reduced by MR. Unfortunately, most Thornmail users can't also get MPen without gimping themselves as tanks or fighters, leaving it easy to counter with magic resist.

I have run several games where I got Thornmail and in all cases it fail miserably. Whether I was Rammus or Malphite or rushed it against a team with 4 AA-heavy Champions, it simply floundered in what it was meant to do: punish auto-attackers. In virtually all cases, they would take pretty much no damage from it.

Unfortunately, to my understanding, buffing the item is not permitted due to it making the edge Rammus/Malphite cases too strong. This probably indicates that the item is in a toxic state, much like WotA was (only Vladimir got it, and it dictated his balance). And as such, it feels like it would be better to either rework or remove the item rather than simply try to rebalance it.

Worst of all, no one at Riot ever wants to discuss the item. It's as though you consider it a taboo to do so. But I have to ask: what's going on? What is planned for Thornmail, if anything?

4 Comments

LostFr0st1 votes

They are reworking tank itemization in the next class update. Thornmail more than likely is included in that.

darkdill1 votes

I'd still like to hear an official word on that since there isn't one.

LostFr0st1 votes

Official word from the blog:

IN-GAME SYSTEMS AND CHAMPION CHANGES We’ll be doing some work on defensive items Mid-Season, in part looking to improve long running problems with defensive items being too effective on some champs who aren’t healthy when really tanky (e.g. tank Fizz and tank Ekko). We’ll also be looking at how itemization makes tanks tanky, with the feeling being at present that they may end up being too resistant to sustained physical damage and too vulnerable to sustained magic damage. source: http://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/2017/01/dev-on-state-of-the-game-january-2017/

SlashStriker1 votes

I bet RIot doesn't even experiment with the idea Grievous Wounds on Thornmail

To counter Thornmail you suppose to build MR But to counter Thromail in the wrong way you can ALSO build Lifesteal

This is being mentioned 1 or 2 years ago but Riot are silent about it

Riot should had a post that say: Yeah we tried that but it seems too strong of a counter vs Marks

item 3072 <- tons of MR in that item

or something similar

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