These two new items on PBE are making me feel concerned

BLIGHTBRINGER·May 18, 2018·14 votes·13,555 views

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-frr3umT9L6M/Wv3xlepRGrI/AAAAAAAA_5g/7ZvbE7-qNg0WHAKS8KZNx-QFYwy5ci2hwCLcBGAs/s1600/spearshojin.jpg

This item seems REALLY STRONG. What are your thoughts people?

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9zVYjKL7JSU/Wv3s-wkJZWI/AAAAAAAA_4E/r5DUqVjuxB4GPPyoDJWJYUJqujgwxWzUACLcBGAs/s1600/atma.jpg

Unlike the other item above, this item seems okay-ish but a little underpowered in my opinion. What are your thoughts people?

112 Comments

DW DianaMay 18, 201821 votes

Still waiting on something new for AP....

Step Sis LuxMay 18, 20188 votes

we wont get anything XD

DW DianaMay 18, 20186 votes

[{quoted}](name=Step Sis Lux,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gpwURT1n,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2018-05-18T13:21:00.350+0000)

we wont get anything XD

Well they just released possibly the best (and first) Diana rush item ever... For ARAM only. Meanwhile AD divers/bruisers/juggernauts/tanks get two new items to help them dominate top lane.

OleandervineMay 18, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Loki1987,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gpwURT1n,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2018-05-18T13:23:29.685+0000)

Well they just released possibly the best (and first) Diana rush item ever... For ARAM only. Meanwhile AD divers/bruisers/juggernauts/tanks get two new items to help them dominate top lane.

Are these not ARAM only as well?

ArbiterOfTruthMay 18, 20186 votes

{quoted}

Are these not ARAM only as well?

Nope. These are part of a fighter update planned for 8.12.

Rayjay RedfangMay 18, 20181 votes

Where was that said?

ArbiterOfTruthMay 18, 20185 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rayjay Redfang,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gpwURT1n,comment-id=000700000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-18T16:20:35.521+0000)

Where was that said?

https://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/client-new-features-feedback/QzwOyzht-fighter-items-on-pbe-for-812

LordGeovanniMay 18, 20182 votes

Please dont group tanks and bruisers together they dont work the same they just happen to be the classes riot hates the most along with enchanter supports because they seem less flashy because idk why people take marksmen to be a skilled class like they have to aim as if this is COD. and even in COD melee kills are considered more skill full because they acknowldge the risk of getting close in a long range game but ironicly at the same time they ignore that same skill has to go into shot guns that only work in close range unlike the haymaker

RyusaetherMay 19, 20181 votes

Marksmen require mechanical skills ("just rightclicking xd", because kiting and orbwalking is futile, you don't have to take distance from enemies and avoid dmg, you're indeed tanky enough to just sit and rightclick hehexd), like it or not.

I don't feel like a Marksman is happy or thinks I outplayed him when I ghost at him with Darius and proceed to delete him off the face of earth, but I think he understands that he made a mistake. I understand I made a mistake when I walk at a Marksman and he kites me to oblivion.

LordGeovanniMay 19, 20181 votes

Marksmen have **needed **to kite in 3-4 years. and when they do its uncounterable unless you have dash after dash because they get extra passive movement speed on their damage items same with mages item 3113 item 3086

RyusaetherMay 20, 20181 votes

Yeah but it's not THAT easy to kite perfectly (using your AS to its maximum extent between every movement) in every scenarios, that's my point.

LordGeovanniMay 20, 20181 votes

Its as easy as pressing the A button and clicking, but Adcs dont need to use their attack speed to the maximum because they do so much more damage than any other class thus things 1 die before they can get to the adc thus removing the need to kite and 2 adcs out heal any damage that they take thus also removing the need to kite and again when they do kite they move faster than other classes thus lowering the difficulty of kiting compared to any other class engaging on them because they get permanant ambient movement speed on items like zeal but other classes that arent mages get either conditional windowed movement speed and it doesnt take into consideration adcs (or mages) having cc (hard or soft people love to not count slows when the only people not effected by slows too much are mages adcs and assassins) to stop any would be chasers or dashes / speed boosts to widen the gap between any would be chasers

RyusaetherMay 21, 20181 votes

And shouldn't they, a class that is squishy and designed to abuse long range not to die, be able to kite poor engagers?

And trust me, it's easier to say "it's easy" than it actually is. It's annoying to say it but "if it's easy why don't you do it?"

LordGeovanniMay 21, 20181 votes

They are designed to abuse long range but Extra speed things to keep those would be engagers off of them and a free excape shouldnt be things that they have on nearly every single one of their champions. if it was a champion neiche thats okay but almost every single champion in the marksmen class has all of these things while bursting armored bruisers and tanks for all of their hp in short amounts of time Which is directly contrary to what their intended design is. Their intended design being sitting at long range and being able to out put large amounts of damage over a long period of time.

RyusaetherMay 21, 20181 votes

I agree that their damage needs to be delayed in more hits, so that they need more kiting. But the mechanic per se and the MS they get from items isn't wrong.

Plus adcs with free escapes are just Vayne, Trist, Lucian, Ez, Cait, Kindred, Quinn (more assassin-ish). The others have MS boosts and/or ult-gated escape (Xayah, possibly Kai'Sa).

LordGeovanniMay 22, 20181 votes

Im not saying movement speed from items is wrong im saying them having unconditional permanent movement speed while melee champions have conditional movement speed in certain situations or that drops off that is wrong. if anything melees should have uncondtional movement speed while ranged champions should have to meet certain conditions just to break even with melee champions. They should not be uncatchable and have self peel dedicated peel characters and self mobility. Im not saying outright take it from them but reduce it for them and give melee champions options for permanent movement speed on a good damage / defensive item not on items you give shitty stats on and its still conditional item 3512 item 3056 item 3060 . Ive already put out the idea that you make point runner non unique but lower it to 15% for each instance which would give people a reason to build the items and run the ingenious hunter rune instead of not running it because not enough actives but not stacking actives because they all have bad stats and they also have the same unique passive.

RyusaetherMay 22, 20181 votes

I get your reasoning, but I still don't know. It could be MS only when kiting, so that they can't just run away doing nothing while rewarding good kiters?

DW DianaMay 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Please dont group tanks and bruisers together they dont work the same they just happen to be the classes riot hates the most along with enchanter supports because they seem less flashy because idk why people take marksmen to be a skilled class like they have to aim as if this is COD. and even in COD melee kills are considered more skill full because they acknowldge the risk of getting close in a long range game but ironicly at the same time they ignore that same skill has to go into shot guns that only work in close range unlike the haymaker

I'm not. There's an item for each. Tanks stack HP so having an item that converts their large HP pool into a large amount of AD could be beneficial, especially when the item also gives armour and MR.

C9 Squeeky May 18, 20185 votes

item 3907

SaiannaMay 18, 20187 votes

I heard Riot gonna rework Zhonyna:

-75AP

-45ARMOR

+85 AD

+20% AS

+30% crit chance

+50 MR

stasis CD reduced to 60 seconds. Activation changed into passive that activates whenever someone falls below 50%hp or if damage might instantly kill the owner

stasis time increased to 10s

players can move, attack and use abilities while under stasis. Lifesteal works too, BUT NOT SPELLVAMP YOU BASTARD!

cost reduced 2900 -> 2600

I think that's a very solid and balanced item.

LordGeovanniMay 18, 20181 votes

item 3907 What is this prey tell?

DW DianaMay 19, 20182 votes

{quoted}

What is this prey tell?

Riots idea of a bad joke?

Warlord RhinarkMay 18, 201810 votes

Honestly I've been longing for Atma's to come back.

Shojin, however, seems like a MASSIVE buff to fighters.

Sire HippingtonMay 18, 20182 votes

and assasins and also some adc unless unless they switch it to melee only...

Titanium70May 18, 20187 votes

They will as soon as this Jhin with 1k+ AD Blocks so much DMG he becomes invulnerable for everyone except the other ADC! x'D

[sg-kiko]

(Exaggerating here, obviously =P)

TwinkieProMay 19, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tuition Fee,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gpwURT1n,comment-id=0029,timestamp=2018-05-19T04:26:06.147+0000)

Shojin on Jhin ;) ShoJHIN

[{quoted}](name=Spice POWAH,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gpwURT1n,comment-id=0028,timestamp=2018-05-19T04:18:33.486+0000)

Well, for spear of shojin, the bonus AD ratio's too high because it risks AD stackers to abuse it. Also the Jhin corner case.

I think it'll be fine if they change it from bonus AD to base AD, since it's obviously a tankier fighter/juggernaut item.

For atma's it looks pretty good, I like that it's an armor/MR item instead of health. beyond that I think the passive on it is reasonable considering its cost

{quoted}

They will as soon as this Jhin with 1k+ AD Blocks so much DMG he becomes invulnerable for everyone except the other ADC! x'D

[sg-kiko]

(Exaggerating here, obviously =P)

Extreme exaggeration. Jhin gets no more DR than anyone else who builds the same items.

Dead flag bluesMay 18, 201810 votes

item 3194 added to this, have fun dealing no damage as a DoT mage

BLIGHTBRINGERMay 18, 20183 votes

RIP Malzahar Cassiopeia

MordepoolMay 18, 20189 votes

Atmas looks like a balanced item. The spear is broken AF

Arisha the DarkMay 18, 20189 votes

Atma's back! Yea!

About spear. Right now champions like Yi, Camille, J4 and Fiora can be a problem. Only defence from them right now is to kill them as fast as you can. With this item it will give them a way to "counter" being targeted. It's an AD item, designed for AD champions that gives a lot of survivability. Way to good.

DeusVultMay 18, 20182 votes

it really is way to good on champs that go glass cannon.

They will end up throwing a melee only tag on it (they have to, letting any ADC build this would be a horrible return to the days of tank Kalista hopping through teams 1v5.) but even with that it currently rivals a tanks full build in terms on damage reduction.

If someone like a full AD assassin ( Zed Talon Khazix ) or a heavy AD skirmisher like MasterYi or Fiora builds this item, and they end up with 350 total AD in their build, the bonus AD would be around 230. Which means that the items damage reduction would be 44.5. With the other passive where it gets tripled, that is now 133.5. That is pre armor/mr. So a mage that would deal 480 damage (lux E with 400AP) would now only deal 346.5 damage. Before MR mitigation from items like item 3156

At the very least the item's 200% damage reduction increase should be an active that lasts 3-4 seconds, to keep it on par with item 3193 It shouldnt refresh.

Right now the item is far too powerful and requires no thought once picked up

DODGEORLOSEMay 18, 20184 votes

Atma's is a returning item that I missed. The other one looks troublesome.

Avios1May 18, 20184 votes

For each second in combat with enemy champions, turrets, or epic monsters, gain Attack Damage equal to 0.5% of your maximum health, up to 2.5%.

laughs in

HethaleanMay 18, 20182 votes

The thread that spoiled it had a comment of someone saying they were J4 (this is in aram btw), and he was full damage which caused that thing to block 400 dmg per instance.

Sire HippingtonMay 18, 20184 votes

so he had over800 bonus ad? sounds unlikely...

Destin du MalMay 18, 20182 votes

They seem to be an answer for adcs. Bruisers will be able to solo carry. Just like most of the boards have been asking for. What's the problem

GayFluffyUnicornMay 19, 20181 votes

People overestimate these changes. The only bruiser build that is somewhat viable is trinity/steraks. Gets nerfed. Hydras get nerfed. For atmas. Yeah right. Your one and two item powerspike gets nerfed significantly for a potential 3+ item boost eh okay it's not like many games are already over at that point. Spear is just legit retarded. It will break half the roster and those who can't use it will be garbage. And for atmas to be useful you need to be in combat for like 4 seconds. Yeah right, how long do tanks last in a full blown teamfight? How long will only health stacking bruisers last then? Yeah. Massive op super buff. Reminds me of conq because it isnt actually too long ago where people predicted the toplane super meta, conq will break the game, ressurect hitler and oh wait nothing happened, conq is dogshit. Exactly how i feel about these changes. Significant nerfs to the good bruisers for a meh item and a broken item that will just fuck up the game will probably not lead to a bruiser meta. ADC nerfs and potential support nerfs on the other hand is what fighters actually need.

RyusaetherMay 19, 20181 votes

I don't think the Spear will completely break the game. It sure is good on Divers (Vi comes up to mind, she can easily get 3 enemies within 500 range with her ult), but it's harder for juggs to proc it due to their slow movement. Maybe some assassins will use it too, but it would be a late buy for sure, and Marksmen won't build it (they go for AS, it's a delay in their powerspike and the passive is counterinteractive with their role and positioning).

The Yetii RiderMay 18, 20182 votes

Yes. Feel concerned. Feel concerned for your anus. For now, AD champions can actually build damage and not just poach tank items.

ChaosThiefMay 18, 20182 votes

I'm not really seeing the issue on the spear all that much. Sure, it's another boneplate essentially on any AD champion, but with 300 bonus AD(which is either full build or pretty much AD only items) it blocks 55 damage every time you take a hit. When near 3 enemies, this will triple to 165 damage reduction, which might seem terrifying at first, but unless you're either a bruiser with a lot of health or a tank (with 300 bonus AD?) You'll still likely die if you get focused. Right now I do think it's far too early to judge the balance of this thing, but I'm fairly certain that this item will never truly be balanced (either it's too strong any everyone takes it or it's too weak and only a select few take it. I'm hoping for the later, personally.)

As for Atma's... It's an item that gives AD based on maximum health, like before, but unlike before requires you to stay in combat for 5 seconds to get the full effect. Not only that, but it's combat with turrets, epic monsters, and champions; so it might not be nearly as good as everyone assumes it will be, but it will still be a good pick up on tanks who like to stack health, like before (I can immediately see Sion rushing it. DrMundo , Volibear , Darius , and pretty much any other melee champion who likes AD will likely be able to buy it later in the game, but I wouldn't expect them to rush it considering the stats by itself may not be the best.)

Rayjay RedfangMay 18, 20181 votes

The second one looks more like a support syle item even though it is more expensive so it is fine by me

The first one seems way too strong. It doesn't need to refresh and divers don't need more help. They are fine. An attack gain being around multiple champions is good, but the damage reduction is not. If you want the damage reduction, buy stoneplate.

BoilTheOilMay 18, 20181 votes

Atmas isnt underpowered

BârdMay 18, 20181 votes

It seems to be effective at what it's supposed to do, but the question is whether that's really what you want.

Tanks benefit more from being durable than from doing damage.

When you're playing most tanks, you'd rather have the raw stats of a tank item than ~75 AD.

RyusaetherMay 19, 20181 votes

Yeah but a Darius with 4k HP will get 100 bonus AD from a fully stacked Atma, factor in Noxian Might and the scalings on his spells.

It's a good option to have later in the game imo.

My Waifu VanillaMay 19, 20181 votes

When fully stacked (aka Darius auto'd someone once) it is cost effective at like 1100 max health. Darius gets that off of like Phage+Ruby Crystal in lane so the item will be cost effective before you even go deep into health. The item is going to be really good on fighters that have huge health pools that want longer fights (Irelia, Darius, Kled, etc.).

RyusaetherMay 19, 20181 votes

Mmm interesting.

So you think that going for 30 res and AD+Passive is better than early HP+AD (or res in case of tanky items)?

My Waifu VanillaMay 20, 20181 votes

I still think the champions that are going to use this item (Irelia, Kled, Darius, Olaf, etc.) are going to still go for health simply because of the items available to them. Irelia is still going to want Trinity+Steraks even after the change to Steraks since it allows her to dive in 1v3 and not die instantly while giving her damage. Darius is still going to go BC into probably either this OR the other new item (or even Sterak's). Kled can pick this up as another "damage" item instead of potentially going for ghostblade if he wants more damage.

The only "bruiser" like champions that probably won't use this will probably be Camille who doesn't get AS tanky as the rest of the cast and probably Illaoi who doesn't TYPICALLY want fights to last long enough for this buff to ramp ALTHOUGH she can ramp this off of pulling spirits.

RyusaetherMay 20, 20181 votes

I don't know if Darius rn wants to go Cleaver or Trinity (I see loads of troforce but with this Sterak change I can see it not be that worth anymore). Maybe I'll go back with Phase Rush + BC instead of Conqueror + Trinity, although the AS and AD from conqueror (and the true dmg) are really valuable stats.

I think Darius really wants that Sterak as a second purchase, the passive is too good and having it give bonus AD helps hin a lot with all of his scalings. Then he can go a defensive item if someone is getting fed on the other team or if the situation is neutral he can definitely go for Atma's, I can see that.

Illaoi will probably like more the Spear of Shojin, to burst while not getting bursted (and she tends to build loads of AD).