Can You Guys Just Revert the Rework on Mordekaiser?

Du Ma Mi·Jun 29, 2016·18 votes·1,470 views

I know it's an old topic, but every time I queue up for mid or top, I want to play him. But I can't. Because I still hate the rework.

Anyone else up for it?

40 Comments

Colgate GatorJun 29, 20166 votes

You need both Malicious Metal and Worst Mord NA's blessing in order to open up the portal to Riot's attention.

All jokes aside, I really don't think they're going to revert a rework, ever, if anything, they're going to do a second update (I'M LOOKING AT YOU, RYZE).

GigglesOJun 29, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Postal Badger,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gp54rmlp,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2016-06-29T14:35:55.569+0000)

You need both Malicious Metal and Worst Mord NA's blessing in order to open up the portal to Riot's attention.

All jokes aside, I really don't think they're going to revert a rework, ever, if anything, they're going to do a second update (I'M LOOKING AT YOU, RYZE).

http://www.lolskill.net/top/most-games?filterChampion=82&filterRealm=NA

I am number 6 on that list...

He is viable, he does need some QoL changes.

Things that they could do to put him in a decent place.

Move speed is terrible. His W needs to be fully self castable. When his w pops, he needs to not be locked out of auto attacking for a good .5 - 1 seconds. His q, should either give a movement speed buff, or attack speed buff. Let e have 0 cast time (like ezreals flash). Make a combination of his old and new Q. Make it easier for him to generate a shield with W, Q and R. Give him back his armor and mr on W. Make it so he can build a larger variety of items through base stat changes. Make his shield not decay while in combat. Make his ghosts more useable. Make dragon follow commands better. Allow his ghosts to target inhibitors without running right up next to them. Let his ghosts deal mixed damage. Give him a bigger shield without forcing him to build as much hp. Give him a cc reduction (like irelia).

Honestly he isn't an overly complicated champion, he just needs something a little different, he is overly reliant on his team and the dragon gimmick right now. If they are serious about wanting him in a solo lane then they have to give him back a little of his old power to generate a shield and keep it up.

BastionKrossJun 29, 20164 votes

You have to imagine that a re-rework is almost always going to make him better than the Frankenstein's Monster he is now. CertainlyT tried to make Morde into a bot lane melee AP/AD carry, and then the live balance team had to come in and give him a light rework to make him ~~viable~~playable in solo lanes.

Now his kit is trapped somewhere between the two and just flows horribly. For instance, he still has that W passive that hardly anyone uses, just sitting there taking power from the rest of his kit. His base stats and MS were run into the ground because he got classified as a Juggernaut. They even changed his role to "Marksman" for a few patches; because when I think of a marksman, I think a giant man in metal armor attacking people in melee range with a mace.

Right now, his kit is just a mish-mash. AP, AD, and HP scalings while his shield, melee range, and weak base stats also lend themselves heavily to building some resists. And don't forget to bring in some MS. Also it would be nice to build an item that slows. Don't forget some CDR as well. Oh, and a bit of AS would be nice for his Q. You have to build a little bit of everything before you can start doing... something. That's bullshit when you look a lot of other champs that only need to build two or three things before they start rolling in pentakills.

I'm looking forward to the rework because I refuse to believe Riot can fuck up Morde any more than they already have. There's literally almost no place to go here but up.

NoPaxtJun 29, 20164 votes

No, his rework is good, but they should do it for Shen! His rework is by far worse than anyone's ever has been... item 3070 Shen

DreadlocksJun 29, 20163 votes

Amen.. rip shen

Du Ma MiJun 29, 20164 votes

"Good" - not really. The old Morde was a lot of fun, and could carry games pretty easily. It's mostly just his Q now, since that was a core part of his kit, and now forces you to hit 3 times, even though his movespeed is some of the worst base-wise in the game.

But I agree, the Shen rework brought tears to my eyes.

warpenguin555Jun 29, 20168 votes

Atleast shen stayed a tank. morde went from tanky magey thing to failed madc

Exiles SoIaceJun 30, 20162 votes

I used to play Morde and Shen. But not since the reworks item 3070

KnightOfEloHellJun 29, 20164 votes

I never understood the rework hate, but I can tell you problems that I see:

-Movespeed: Where before Boots of Swiftness was nerfed and boot enchants where removed, I didn't mind a base MS of 325, now, I can have those Boots of Swiftness and be out runner by almost any champion with basic boots on. As a melee, that is never fun, and with how w is bugged to target the closest ally or minion rather than who you click, the MS buff w gives you will not be 100% reliable until said bug is fixed.

-Health: Mord has one of the worst base health and armor in the game. Obviously this is due to having a shield, burst, heals, and that dragon ghost gives lots of health.

Honestly, I love Mord and everything about his kit atm, but I personally think a tiny base MS buff is all he needs.

Du Ma MiJun 29, 20162 votes

Well, I see your points, and the main problems with his kit you nailed. But I really dislike his new Q. That's the only part I really hated.

I was a Mordekaiser main before the rework. So I really liked the "Lifesteal, AOE, Burst Mage, with a large shield" kind of character. The easy 2v1's top lane. The QER ignite combos on the cocky Ezreal mids that stepped a little too close.

Now, his Q requires 3 hits, so he's pretty much unplayable in the mid lane, and in top you have to flash to land a 3rd Q about 85% of the time. Or build a Rylais - which means that you can't use your Q very well, if at all before you have the gold for those and boots.

KnightOfEloHellJun 29, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Well, I see your points, and the main problems with his kit you nailed. But I really dislike his new Q. That's the only part I really hated.

I was a Mordekaiser main before the rework. So I really liked the "Lifesteal, AOE, Burst Mage, with a large shield" kind of character. The easy 2v1's top lane. The QER ignite combos on the cocky Ezreal mids that stepped a little too close.

Now, his Q requires 3 hits, so he's pretty much unplayable in the mid lane, and in top you have to flash to land a 3rd Q about 85% of the time. Or build a Rylais - which means that you can't use your Q very well, if at all before you have the gold for those and boots.

I can agree on that, but what runes do you have? I have flat AD reds, AP blues, and AP quints more often than not. That tend to make rylias very song when I build it.

Starting Options:

Fat heals and poke start: Amp tome and pot. Poke with e, have nice sustain with w. Tend to get first blood with this if I have ghost and ignite.

AA farming start- long sword and pots start. Gives you better sustained damage early, last hitting with AAS is easier, and you get more pots than an amp tome start.

Mobility and sustain start: boots and pots. The boots help you move around early, and the pots allows amazing sustain. Play safe since damage is low, cs, poke, and simply sustain lane and use your pots conservetivly. I have had amazing experiences with this start, and normally always works well--unless the enemy has a pull, than you go amp tome as above for the heals (or grab it on your first back)

Try the boots rush sometime, it's halarious.

Du Ma MiJun 29, 20161 votes

Actually, depending on the matchup, that could be really good. Top lane would probably be more suitable for him now, which is disappointing since his wave clear is sub-par compared to his old wave clear, so my farming would probably suffer a tad. But yeah his early Q damage being easily proccable due to boots rush would probably help a lot. Thanks!

KnightOfEloHellJun 30, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Actually, depending on the matchup, that could be really good. Top lane would probably be more suitable for him now, which is disappointing since his wave clear is sub-par compared to his old wave clear, so my farming would probably suffer a tad. But yeah his early Q damage being easily proccable due to boots rush would probably help a lot. Thanks!

Np. Just with the boots start, have the runes I spoke of, and poke them down with, farm safely with e and deactivate w, than go all in when they are low and too close.

Slack KingJun 29, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Morde Unlimited,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gp54rmlp,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-06-29T06:30:14.945+0000)

I never understood the rework hate, but I can tell you problems that I see:

-Movespeed: Where before Boots of Swiftness was nerfed and boot enchants where removed, I didn't mind a base MS of 325, now, I can have those Boots of Swiftness and be out runner by almost any champion with basic boots on. As a melee, that is never fun, and with how w is bugged to target the closest ally or minion rather than who you click, the MS buff w gives you will not be 100% reliable until said bug is fixed.

-Health: Mord has one of the worst base health and armor in the game. Obviously this is due to having a shield, burst, heals, and that dragon ghost gives lots of health.

Honestly, I love Mord and everything about his kit atm, but I personally think a tiny base MS buff is all he needs.

When I click on a target with my W, it goes to that target everytime. I think you may have an issue

My issue is with how unclear his W is, sometimes it hits 2 targets. Other times it will wipe a wave. Let alone the fact you need an ally to use 60% of it

GigglesOJun 29, 20164 votes

The only thing they need to do is revert q, make his w fully self castable, and change back his base stats (especially base movement speed).

KnightOfEloHellJun 29, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The only thing they need to do is revert q, make his w fully self castable, and change back his base stats (especially base movement speed).

The w has been self castable for awhile now. It's amazing.

Deactivate damage as poke and to last hit kills OP

GigglesOJun 30, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Morde Unlimited,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gp54rmlp,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-06-29T17:20:59.827+0000)

The w has been self castable for awhile now. It's amazing.

While partially true, it is not FULLY self castable. They need to allow it to do its aoe damage before it pops by himself. You know the damage over time portion of the spell, the portion that would allow him to keep his shield up better.

Before his rework W actually supplied him with a huge chunk of shield generation.

warpenguin555Jun 29, 20164 votes

i hope his vgu brings him closer to what he was before the juggernaut update. i used to play him randomly now i dont even touch him. hope they let him keep the dragon though

BârdJun 29, 20163 votes

As much as his rework was a failure, there ARE things about it that I very much enjoy.

The heal on W is pretty cool, and the dragon ghosts are pretty metal.

That said, I would not mind if his kit got changed to be a bit closer to before.

Give his Q some way of waveclearing again. Maybe if you kill something with a strike, it's damage is echoed onto nearby units.
Remove the stupid "Power of Friendship" shit on his W. Morde shouldn't have an XP steroid in a duo lane, and he shouldn't have to hug his teammates/creeps to be an effective fighter.

KeevalroyJun 29, 20162 votes

They should get rid of the stupid dragon ghost as well.

KnightOfEloHellJun 29, 20162 votes

{quoted}

They should get rid of the stupid dragon ghost as well.

What are you talking about?? I love being a Raid Boss---a tower sieging monster!!! The dragon ghost is unique and amazing.

MerxamersJun 29, 20162 votes

I don't think he's as bad in the Top lane as you think. I use MS quints and do pretty well against most tanks; it's not like he's top tier or anything, but he's playable. Mid lane's another story; haven't tried it much but i wouldn't think he'd have much kill pressure, except maybe as a counterpick to assassins like Fizz.

to answer your question, there is no chance that the rework will be revoked. They'll just fully re-work him later.

agbudarJun 29, 20162 votes

can we just please get rid of his xp BS on W? can we please just cast W on an enemy damaging them instead? and giving morde an ACTUAL chasing ability?

SwiftKitten88Jun 30, 20162 votes

while your at it riot... revert Nidalee to that patch BEFORE you let her jungle.

nidalee main

Scary DoorJun 30, 20162 votes

It's been nearly a year and it is clear that the Mordekeiser update was an objective failure.

Statistically, Mordekeiser has a lower average pick rate than pre-rework values, presently at 1.1% (6th lowest among all champions).

In fairness, Morde was never among the top picks in League, but he usually was still around a 3-3.5% pick rate.

Win rate is decent but is actually lower than pre-rework Morde, presently at 49%

Okay, win rate isn't the only gauge anyone should use for success of a champion or as a means to measure their power. With that having been said it is clear that Mordekeiser wins less frequently and is picked less often thereby demonstrating an undesired result of a rework. Why have a rework if it makes the champion less popular and causes them to win less often? The counter argument might be that he was winning too frequently or too easily (keeping in mind the pre-rework winrate was 51%) and of course win rates go down following a rework usually (Skarner excluded). There is no question, however, that after almost a year Morde isn't hitting the mark.

Morde has no clearly defined role.

Obviously the idea was take Mordekeiser bot lane which puts him closer to dragon (where he almost has to be for any effectiveness), but solo lane Mordekeiser performs rather poorly because of the initial W changes. Despite having made some changes to try and help solo Morde players, the overall solo experience just feels weaker, because it (objectively) is overall.

Morde still has AP scaling, but shouldn't be built full AP, he has some scaling to his shield, but shouldn't be built full tank necessarily either. If he's bot lane he can be easily harassed, kited by an ADC of similar skill level (much like any melee champion would be).

This isn't to say he can't win a solo lane, but the matchups are much more difficult now and it seems like more work to go even in a solo lane than it's worth.

It's neat that he can take Dragon and make it his pet

...but that's just a poor trade off for everything Mordekeiser lost in his pre-rework state.

TL:DR - This update was a failure on every possible front and it's time to just admit you were wrong about it Riot and give people back the old Morde. Most of your updates have been either a lateral move or a net gain, but this one was terrible.

rtbf221651412Jun 29, 20161 votes

I just got him. What is wrong with him? He builds AP and HP. He is a damage absorbing mage. A bruiser/fighter. His ult scales off HP, AP, and 100% of your AD. I summoned a dragon with over 4k HP. Again, what is wrong with him?

Du Ma MiJun 29, 20164 votes

Firstly, he has AD scalings on most of his abilities now - for no reason, since (as you said) he builds AP and HP. Secondly, his new Q is horrid to use. He's unplayable in the mid lane, because there's no reliable way to land his 3rd Q for any damage, without flashing. Finally, he just doesn't seem very metal anymore. His old kit had metal spikes coming out of the ground for E, now it's just a green wisp of smoke dealing damage. Not even close to as cool Mordekaiser

rtbf221651412Jun 29, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Firstly, he has AD scalings on most of his abilities now - for no reason, since (as you said) he builds AP and HP. Secondly, his new Q is horrid to use. He's unplayable in the mid lane, because there's no reliable way to land his 3rd Q for any damage, without flashing. Finally, he just doesn't seem very metal anymore. His old kit had metal spikes coming out of the ground for E, now it's just a green wisp of smoke dealing damage. Not even close to as cool

Okay so I've been doing some trolly builds during a custom.

First, I feel like HP is a MUST. A staple part of any build. (For me at least)

Secondly, I just did an AD build. Apparently the passive cleave also works on your summon. (Titanic Hydra.) It also works while his Q is active. Why did I go AD? Look at his ability scalings on the wikia.

My build was item 3071 item 3748 item 3022 item 3053 item 3083 item 3065

(Most of the team was AP) You don't really need that many HP items and Warmogs is most likely not necessary. I solo'd elder dragon though.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Mordekaiser

I can't say it is viable but it's interesting.

His passive becomes almost pointless with AD and so does his W. (Just use for the lifesteal)

I still prefer AP, but it's funny to see how weird the game mechanics are for him.

trash sionJun 30, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I just got him. What is wrong with him? He builds AP and HP. He is a damage absorbing mage. A bruiser/fighter. His ult scales off HP, AP, and 100% of your AD. I summoned a dragon with over 4k HP. Again, what is wrong with him?

Bad design.

He doesn't have a "good" playstyle anywhere, just bad ones and slightly less bad ones.

He was reworked to go botlane, was OP, and was nerfed into the ground.

His kit was made for botlane, so taking him elsewhere puts you at a significant disadvantage.

Slamurai JackJun 29, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I know it's an old topic, but every time I queue up for mid or top, I want to play him. But I can't.

lol

Du Ma MiJun 29, 20161 votes

What? I played him top a lot. He was a good splitpushers (because of his OLD waveclear), and could outduel most laners. Now he's pretty much a failed adc/jg mix.

Slamurai JackJun 29, 20161 votes

New Morde is the most cancerous top laner I've ever seen in this game. He's impossible to deal with 1v1 as any melee champion and he pushes so absurdly hard that you'll get shit on with no counterplay unless your jungler camps him super hard. Top is statistically his best role so the fact you think he can't be played there is extremely confusing. Top lane is where all the high elo Morde mains play him nowadays.

Du Ma MiJun 30, 20161 votes

I never said he was BAD, I just said that I didn't like him there.

Slamurai JackJun 30, 20161 votes

I know it's an old topic, but every time I queue up for mid or top, I want to play him. But I can't.

No, you just don't want to. New Morde is a better top laner than old Morde ever was. Don't want to play him top because you don't like the rework? Fine. But don't say you Can't.

Du Ma MiJun 30, 20161 votes

No, I mean I can't BRING MYSELF TO PLAY HIM THERE. I've tried it. I carried with it. But still, I don't enjoy it, and no: I don't think he's better than the old one was.

He's not necessarily a bad champ now. But I was an old Morde main. So the old one will always be better to me.

Opinions are opinions man.

Fat Bastard GODJun 29, 20161 votes

Morde is actually quite viable. He can shut down a lot of snowbally top-laners and his pushing power can be scary.

KnightOfEloHellJun 30, 20161 votes

Top lane is great, because if you farm your ass off, you can get fed so fast!

Don't shove lane early tho, just last hit and try to freeze lane.

Silly NeekoJun 30, 20161 votes

Morde needs a bit of move speed boost...... but hes a soul manifested in a giant suit of metal armor. Move speed would only be a small boost if any to keep with the feel of the character.

As for never hitting your 3rd hits, a tip i have is hit 1 and 2 on minions or tower when the enemy is wanting to farm, then turn around and SMACK third hit on them..... he actually sustains his shield fairly well with CDR and im very glad they made it scale with health because 300 shield late game was very disappointing. Before the rework i was able able to solo entire teams with Mordekaiser, now if i build full tank, i can be in combat for a good 3 minutes while smacking them around if i am fed enough. Often taking a few with me.

When life gives you a rework, make the rework into lemon juice and spray it all over the enemy's bruises and cuts you are giving them. Hes in a pretty good state whether he goes AD, AP, or straight tank..... but works best as an offencive tank. Early boots and shoving the enemy out of lane with your sustain will make for a happy Morde

AlwaysByMySideJun 30, 20161 votes

People are building him wrong.

AP? Man fuck AP, get a little bit of AP in your runes or whatever but fuck building AP.

Build full tank.

item 3068 item 3053 item 3111 item 3065 item 3742 item 3075

A Mordekaiser with this build (obviously you alter your items accordingly based on the enemy team) is almost indestructible in a team fight while still dealing enough damage to be impossible to ignore. Max W, then E, then Q generally.

Go 12-0-18 with Grasp of the Undying.

This Mordekaiser is still almost impossible to deal with 1v1 as any melee champion (and he does okay against ranged as well) while scaling into an impossible to kill badass who kills the shit out of the enemy carry. Your typical Mordekaiser punk bitch who builds AP tends to get focused down and killed after killing a carry because he's fairly squishy. That can't be done to this Mordekaiser. No joke, Mordekaiser with this build is the tankiest champion in the game.

Silly NeekoJun 30, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Memeglaive Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gp54rmlp,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2016-06-30T01:17:04.272+0000)

People are building him wrong.

AP? Man fuck AP, get a little bit of AP in your runes or whatever but fuck building AP.

Build full tank.

A Mordekaiser with this build (obviously you alter your items accordingly based on the enemy team) is almost indestructible in a team fight while still dealing enough damage to be impossible to ignore. Max W, then E, then Q generally.

Go 12-0-18 with Grasp of the Undying.

This Mordekaiser is still almost impossible to deal with 1v1 as any melee champion (and he does okay against ranged as well) while scaling into an impossible to kill badass who kills the shit out of the enemy carry. Your typical Mordekaiser punk bitch who builds AP tends to get focused down and killed after killing a carry because he's fairly squishy. That can't be done to this Mordekaiser. No joke, Mordekaiser with this build is the tankiest champion in the game.

You are forgetting Titanic Hydra for some hefty damage increase. Can be done instead of Deadman's plate after they get armor pen from BC and LW. That build lacks the CDR to keep his shield up constantly via his E though.... that is my only concern.