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Since bans got removed from ARAM, might as well add the option to surrender at the loading screen

PaffWasTaken··84 votes·16,088 views

The decision to remove bans was made based on feedback and, since the majority of feedback that was AGAINST bans in ARAM came from either people with ARAM-only accounts or people who were complaining that they couldn't get their favorite champions since they were frequently banned, it only makes sense to add forfeit at loading screen.

Why you might say? Well, since bans were removed from a RANDOM gamemode so that people could play THEIR favorite champions (wait, it makes less and less sense...), its only normal to skip a game until you get matched against a weak team with YOUR favorite champion (who, since it got perma banned before, is probably way over 55% winrate), or else it wouldn't be RANDOM, uh??

Makes sense right? Let me answer: no, it doesn't make any sense, any of it. From removing bans after waiting so long for them to people wanting to play specific champions in ARAM and complaining they can't get them, no. sense. at. all. Bans didn't made the gamemode less random, their removal did. People being unhappy they can't get X champion shouldn't be an argument; the whole point of bans is making sure they get a random pick and not an anticipated one, it isn't an unwanted side effect, its the reason behind it and it worked while it lasted. The removal of bans just brought us back at an unfun aspect of the gamemode, while bringing players from the event who were salty enough when not being able to get the picks they want (spoiler: they aren't any less toxic now and throwing games because they didn't get THE teamcomp they wanted along their mains is extremely common, bans kept some of these animals at their place, away from the gamemode).

Bring back bans, their removal didn't make any sense to the point we can justify changes as braindead as the one described in the title by compairing how idiotic those both sounds.

41 Comments

Original Sin24 votes

Instead, what we actually need is the ability to remake if someone doesn't connect. Its bs that we gotta wait 8 minutes to ff playing a 4v5 and if there's one kid that votes no its like a 15 minutes game.

Inkling Commando10 votes

adding bans to begin with made no sense. there was absolutely no reason to add them. ARAM is not a temporary game mode like Blitz and ARAM has no ranked like SR does. the only way ARAM can be true ARAM is adding the entire roster to it. that way there is an equal chance to get a champ rather than out right getting one you want cause you ban the ones you don't want.

PaffWasTaken2 votes

Except there is no equal chance to get either champion simply because we have sooooooooo many ways to influence picks that there would STILL be a far greater amount of pickrate in favor of undeniably way too strong champions. Rerolls. Trading. Reroll pools. Barely punished dodging.

Anyone with a decent brain can manipulate the odds to their favor with that system. The only way ARAM can be true ARAM is by adding the entire roster AND removing pick manipulations AND force picks through dodges. Would that ever happen? No. Would people approve it if it would happen? Even less so. The current ARAM may have some ambiguity to its randomness, but at least this randomness was somewhat enhanced through bans and the general quality of gameplay was greatly enhanced for those who played the mode for what it's meant for, AKA enjoying random comps and experiencing new champions that you wouldn't normally play. Even if some people banned the picks they didn't want to have, a vast majority of people banned for the champions they don't want to play against, who can pretty much be summed up to a linear array of similar champions. Removing bans and being done with it just enforces the message that ARAM is a gamble that someone wins by getting one of the top 20 winrate champions. Adding the entire roster without further changes doesn't change this message at all, it just decreases the chances of "winning" slightly for some users. The bans, however, made sure that someone had something to do to counter this by banning either a champion he doesn't enjoy to see or a champion that he deems too powerfull.

justacat9 votes

So I really liked the Ban's in ARAM, I felt they were a good addition, the mode is supposed to be random, but if thats the case, then we should remove trades and rerolls as well, as they are like bans in reverse letting you get the champ you want. If you wanted to why not make Random bans? At the start of the game it randomly bans 5 or 10 champs, then the same character won't always be banned, but there is still a chance to remove some of the less then fun elements of the game. I just played a team in Aram that had Lux, Warwick, Kayle, Ahri, and Fiddlesticks, the team had so much CC they deleted us easily. It wasn't fun it didn't feel fair given we had a team, with not a lot of range and almost no CC to counter them. All I am saying is that I play a lot of Arams and it would be nice if while random it was more fair and I felt bans helped with that, the amount of time it takes to get into a game is a weak excuse to remove the mode, and the fact some champs were always banned maybe a sign they are considered unhealthy or Auto wins.

Wínters Dawn8 votes

People arguing that aram shouldn't have bans because its suppose to include all champions and that aram accounts aren't that powerful. Then explain to me why literally in the past like few aram games I've played nidelle has been in a good chunk of them. Seriously I see that b so much.

GigglesO2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wínters Dawn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gonnqM89,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2019-04-23T04:27:37.628+0000)

aram shouldn't have bans because its suppose to include all champions

Then Riot should unlock all champions for the gamemode.

Tunamuna691 votes

then why not unlock every champ in 5s? its suppose to be "free to play"

GigglesO1 votes

It is "free to play". You don't have to buy anything. The difference between normals 5's and aram is pretty huge though. If they would better balance their champions I would argue otherwise.

floo7 votes

4 out of 9 arams yesterday had Lux against me. First game I played today had a Lux against me. This is fun.

Tunamuna691 votes

how about you learn to walk up and down so she doesnt stun and ult you!

how do you have time to play aram when you cry on boards everyday?

floo4 votes

How about she and her easy to hit spells don't appear in every second aram game?

Always enough time for that. You seem to find your time to complain about it too

RebeccaUCuber3 votes

and do not forget the lack of space you have in aram, especially undertower.

DesreveRti1 votes

its a root not a stun

SuicidePlank6 votes

You don't like to play melee champs (maybe even some with no dashes,or gap closer, to make it more funny) against a heavy poke comp? Imagine if you could atleast keep some cancer out..wait...

Moon Mom6 votes

Your title is a huge hyperbole. It isn't so bad you should just FF.

Tr4shB4NSYST3M19 votes

XinZhao Udyr TahmKench Evelynn Ivern vs Veigar Lux Nautilus Janna MissFortune

And similar matchups happen more often than they should, and it just feels like trash to play as the team on the left side.

PaffWasTaken11 votes

...But thats the point that I'm making.

Making such a change is way overboard, but removing bans for reasons that doesn't make sense either is on a similar level, yet the FF at loading screen change would never happen, so why did it happen with bans removal? I exagerated the title to exclusively declare it as exagerated within my post, re-read it please (if you actually did first of course) if you misinterpret my intentions please

theChibiTina6 votes

Funny when they mentioned removing it because some champs couldn't be played they referenced veigar, lux, and brand. The only one of those 3 I saw consistently banned was veigar. I saw yi, yas, garen, twitch, and even vayne banned more than the other two. Veigar was obviously banned because his stun takes up half the lane and his ult does percent missing health, plus he can stack infinitely to only get continuously stronger. They would have to do so many changes to make veigar remotely close to balanced in aram. Xerath I saw consistently banned because even with the damage reduction, he can still continuously poke you down from a safe distance.

wolvius3 votes

https://i.chzbgr.com/full/8529615104/h71B47FB4/

Ztoka3 votes

Bans for a fun mode, just dumb. I mean, the one nice thing was I could ban rammus every game and not have to worry about getting stuck w/ the champ. My other friends used bans the same way, ban your least fav champ. Really though, dumb idea. Bans only belong in ranked and normals because normals are the practice for ranked. If we'd get an all mid mode, eliminate the random, bans would make much more sense.

Minarde3 votes

Alright, I'll play devil's advocate for a minute. Bans don't fit with ARAM because ARAM's the "chill mode." People want to queue up and get into a game. Extending champ select, such as via banning phase, makes things more tedious for little gain, since the game's balance state isn't a concern. After all, getting a strong champ just makes things more fun. Meanwhile, getting a weak champ is annoying, yet manageable, since "it's just ARAM."

As such, ARAM's primary problem still seems to be its confinement to a singular queue. Casuals who don't care about overall balance, competitive players who really care about overall balance, and everyone in-between all get lumped together. Thus, the queue gets dragged in all sorts of directions to end up with a half-agreeable compromise in the middle. For the Summoner's Rift players out there, think of all those champions that get nerfed and struggle in Solo queue solely because they were dominating pro play. Now imagine that conflict applied to an entire queue. Stuff's messy.

The clearest way to solve this would be to add a ranked ARAM queue. Casuals can continue relaxing in normals as they have been. Meanwhile, more competitive players can enjoy competitive features (e.g. bans, full champ roster). Ranked rewards encourage players to play the more "intensive" queue while further differentiating the queues to avoid the "Blind Pick vs. Draft" situation. Additionally, having a separate queue allows for various changes that don't impact the existing ARAM queue. For instance, queue requirements could be increased (e.g. summoner level, champs owned) to compensate for enabling all champs. Champ select could use a "Random Draft" format similar to the "Sealed Arena Draft" that card games use.

TwinkiePro1 votes

{quoted}

Alright, I'll play devil's advocate for a minute. Bans don't fit with ARAM because ARAM's the "chill mode." People want to queue up and get into a game. Extending champ select, such as via banning phase, makes things more tedious for little gain, since the game's balance state isn't a concern. After all, getting a strong champ just makes things more fun. Meanwhile, getting a weak champ is annoying, yet manageable, since "it's just ARAM."

As such, ARAM's primary problem still seems to be its confinement to a singular queue. Casuals who don't care about overall balance, competitive players who really care about overall balance, and everyone in-between all get lumped together. Thus, the queue gets dragged in all sorts of directions to end up with a half-agreeable compromise in the middle. For the Summoner's Rift players out there, think of all those champions that get nerfed and struggle in Solo queue solely because they were dominating pro play. Now imagine that conflict applied to an entire queue. Stuff's messy.

The clearest way to solve this would be to add a ranked ARAM queue. Casuals can continue relaxing in normals as they have been. Meanwhile, more competitive players can enjoy competitive features (e.g. bans, full champ roster). Ranked rewards encourage players to play the more "intensive" queue while further differentiating the queues to avoid the "Blind Pick vs. Draft" situation. Additionally, having a separate queue allows for various changes that don't impact the existing ARAM queue. For instance, queue requirements could be increased (e.g. summoner level, champs owned) to compensate for enabling all champs. Champ select could use a "Random Draft" format similar to the "Sealed Arena Draft" that card games use.

The only way to truly balance it is to make all champs free and remove rerolls. With this in place, players will have to play the champs they are dealt and all champs will have equal playrate.

Minarde1 votes

I agree on a personal level. However, the fact remains that some (many?) people simply aren't interested in a "truly balanced" ARAM. Perhaps there's champs they absolutely detest playing; maybe there's champs they look forward to playing. Whatever the case, their preference is entirely valid because that's how ARAM has been for years. It'd be a different story if ARAM was a recent addition to League. However, at this point, the tradition of ARAM has as much weight as the spirit of ARAM.

Dethflash3 votes

Step 1: Add bans back to ARAM Step 2: Make it so every champion is available in ARAM Step 3: ARAM is a lot better off

DuskDaUmbreon2 votes

Except for, you know, how a lot of the problem champions were nerfed.

PaffWasTaken9 votes

I sure do enjoy to play against Sona now that she is nerfed. I really do feel at an equal ground against her 62% winrate (post-nerf btw) with a 46% winrate VI (post-buff btw).

Damage dealt/damage received balancing won't have enough impact on any champions in the game mode to make them more or less relevant dependently, except for those few sitting near the 50% who won't even get changes at all either.

The reason why those champions are blatantly advantaged compaired to others is almost solely because of their kits at a mechanical level, and not on a quantitative one. Unless there's mechanic changes (which I HIGHLY doubt Riot even considers) coming on those champions, they will always stay at an overwhelming or underwhelming state unless we come to extreme number changes that would just change the consistency of champions to the point barely anyone could refer on their individual knowledges on champions, which is part of the usual fun of the gamemode or even the game itself.

Saezio1 votes

Well, one thing I have to say as someone that has played tons of ARAMs.

Sona and Janna do blow up a hell of a lot easier now. If you have vi for example like you said, and you go full AD you can blow up the sona in each and every teamfight. No joke.

LTK KoRo1 votes

sadly there are some problematic champions who would be absurd to play against even with +30% dmg nerfs. Veigar is the best example, his cage makes melees unable to do jackshit for like 3-4 secs? That's kinda long

SpecterVonBaren2 votes

{quoted}

The decision to remove bans was made based on feedback and, since the majority of feedback that was AGAINST bans in ARAM came from either people with ARAM-only accounts or people who were complaining that they couldn't get their favorite champions since they were frequently banned, it only makes sense to add forfeit at loading screen.

Based on what? Do you have actual proof for this or are you just saying what you want to be true and presenting it as fact? I have no skin in the game in regards to bans but at least be truthful instead of trying to pad your case.

Leetri1 votes

There is no proof, it's just something the board made up to make it easier to hate on.

Saezio2 votes

I don't give a shit about bans, as long as they enable all champions

Saevum2 votes

{quoted}

I don't give a shit about bans, as long as they enable all champions

ding ding ding

OneMustFall2 votes

Yes because ARAMs weren't played for years and years without the ability to ban champions.

/s

The circle jerking on these boards is ridiculous.

StrayXL2 votes

i enjoyed ARAM with Bans, before Bans i would have atleast 3-5 Dodges in a Row, with Bans i rarely had any dodges out of like 15-20 games over the course.

People even enjoyed playing Frontline champions because of the new spell, and banning poke characters or just hard denial characters allowing people to actually have fun on Champions that would normally get rerolled or dodged on because you had Backtrack, and the ARAM Guardian angel, but Riot REMOVED them while keeping the Warmogs nerf, which pretty much established people getting any Frontline Champion to either Reroll or Dodge, because it's 100% not fun unless the enemy team or your team comp is perfect even then it's just a slog.

TLDR: Bans helped reduced Dodging, Increased Diversity of ARAM, and Increased the fun, but the removal of spells, items and nerfs to warmog pretty much sealed that any Frontline champion rolled is a instant dodge or reroll

Psi211 votes

{quoted}

The decision to remove bans was made based on feedback and, since the majority of feedback that was AGAINST bans in ARAM came from either people with ARAM-only accounts or people who were complaining that they couldn't get their favorite champions since they were frequently banned, it only makes sense to add forfeit at loading screen.

Why would you think ARAM only accounts would want the bans gone? You do know 5 man premade ARAM gorups were exploiting the bans to narrow their roster even more to the champs they wanted to play.

PaffWasTaken2 votes

Just a quick reminder that there's a total of 10 bans per game. A team abusing the system will still get countered by it if the opposing team bans the champions usually used by said persons. And since most ban phases usually ended up in a similar banned roster from both sides in most games, this results into a rapid conclusion: Unless ARAM account users develop the ability to control the mind of the opposing team, they are at a large disadvantage compaired to an ban-less ARAM, even when exploiting its weaknesses

Psi211 votes

{quoted}

Just a quick reminder that there's a total of 10 bans per game. A team abusing the system will still get countered by it if the opposing team bans the champions usually used by said persons. And since most ban phases usually ended up in a similar banned roster from both sides in most games, this results into a rapid conclusion: Unless ARAM account users develop the ability to control the mind of the opposing team, they are at a large disadvantage compaired to an ban-less ARAM, even when exploiting its weaknesses

No ...

Not at all.

  1. You don't know the names of your opponents so you can't sort who to ban. This isn't Rift.
  2. The bans on the 5 man premade team are geared towards their roster. The other team since this was high MMR ARAM games played mostly by ARAM-only accounts would do the similar thing. The point was the bans were being utilized to exploit. Understand?

Mind control has nothing to do with the exploit being used. I suspect you don't fully understand what was happening. Because ban-less ARAM with a roster of 3 rotations; targeting ARAM only accounts means more choices they randomly can get shafted with a champ they don't want.

Again 5 man premade high MMR ARAM-only groups with similar rosters were banning champs they didn't want to play, rather than ones they didn't want to face to force a better chance on getting the champs they wanted from their already reduced roster size.

Xhaiden1 votes

QFT! When you see a combo like this...

Velkoz Xerath MissFortune Ezreal Maokai

or

Veigar Lux Fiddlesticks Zilean Jhin

or

Brand Ziggs Heimerdinger Graves DrMundo

And your team looks something like this... Rakan Alistar Thresh Tryndamere Draven

Unless the whole enemy team is filled with Iron/Bronze and yours is filled with Plat/Diamond or 2 of the enemy team are afk.... It's a waste of time. You're just getting bullied with no chance of retaliation. 😐

Aatrox Airlines1 votes

it should be ARAMB, aram with bans

Sometimes Fizz1 votes

FF @ 4 plox!

DesreveRti1 votes

lmao....They could make a melee aram and ranged aram

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