Hey wukongs players, Wukong is sitting at a 53.76% winrate. Are you sure he needs a buff?

taleofsonata·Dec 18, 2018·32 votes·12,204 views

Champion.gg - League of Legends Stats by Champion Role for the Current Patch

I've been seeing these same board about wukong being weak. But is he actually weak? 1st of all he is AD, he can abuse AD assassins item or bruisers item with that Trinity force + Sterak gage. He snowball relatively easely since his laning phase is him spamming his E for harrass. He synergize super well with Black cleaver since he can shred an entire team armor. So whats the problem? He isn't suppose to 1shot because he is a Diver not an Assassin, even when he is ahead he can 1shot champions.

That 0.56% playrate means that there are good wukong mains. It's just that the wukong players aren't good at him.

https://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.winPercent&order=descend

74 Comments

Who Fed RuDec 18, 201844 votes

Wukong mains think their champ needs to have 55%+ wr to be viable

InfernapeDec 18, 201817 votes

Sounds like the Janna meme

Death by GlamourDec 18, 201834 votes

tbh this sounds more like ahri/shaco mains

Emo TwinkDec 20, 20181 votes

Zed mains too tbh

Bobloser3555Dec 18, 20181 votes

so true thats why Haramba (a guy who got challenger with Wukong) quit after Wukong only had a little over 50% win rate after a nerf...lol

Fire BlaustoiseDec 19, 201810 votes

Harambe still play.

http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=harambe

MaddwafflesDec 19, 20188 votes

Harambe still plays Wukong, he does other champs too, but he still uses Wukong often and even experimented with bottom lane Wukong to try and offset the fact that the top lane environment is so unfriendly towards Wukong in terms of match-ups. And if you look at his recent games, you can see a lot of losses to BS champs, match-ups that have always biased against Wukong, or with champs who just straight up negate how Wukong plays. And it's almost always top/mid lane that these problems arise. Harambe's wins almost always come from bot lane queue or jungle queue these days, and at the level he's at almost consistently it's BS champs getting picked, but when you watch him play he's REALLY hard to gank, and in his own words his play is so tight that if Wukong weren't gutted, he'd probably be top 10 on server. Even when losing, it's not often because of help from the jungle. When a player who's THIS good struggles this much because of his lane environment and how the champ interacts with it, that champ needs to be fixed to at least be in the middle of the running in terms of viability.

GilgayuDec 18, 20188 votes

[{quoted}](name=Who Fed Ru,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gjEofpGL,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-12-18T20:35:11.124+0000)

Wukong mains think their champ needs to have 55%+ wr to be viable

I thought that was the Irelia mains when the -5ms nerf hit

Handy Sandy Dec 18, 201838 votes

its not that wukong needs a buff, he just needs something changed in general because his kit is so outdated he stomps certain comps or loses to others without the person playing him being a factor.

also his winrates 51% top lane

RagnaveilDec 18, 20183 votes

{quoted}

its not that wukong needs a buff, he just needs something changed in general because his kit is so outdated

Aka a mini rework similar to Ez's, but on a slightly bigger scale. But the mains are not satisfied by having a mini rework and want a full gameplay overhaul instead. Meanwhile, everyone and their mother in China don't want that full update because it's a champ that is heavily tied to their mythology. The mains just need to accept the mini and wait their turn. Their champ isn't unplayable compared to what Shen is right now (being yeeted from existence)

Blue Moon WolfDec 18, 20183 votes

please, at this point we'd be happy with a passive change and that's it. Riot's pretty much said "We're not doing an update cause China said no". And until we find out how the china ban thing goes and how Riot handles that, there's no reason to expect otherwise...

Ktor18Dec 19, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Blue Moon Wolf,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gjEofpGL,comment-id=000500000001,timestamp=2018-12-18T23:21:32.923+0000)

please, at this point we'd be happy with a passive change and that's it. Riot's pretty much said "We're not doing an update cause China said no". And until we find out how the china ban thing goes and how Riot handles that, there's no reason to expect otherwise...

there is no china ban...

Fire BlaustoiseDec 19, 20183 votes

Meanwhile, everyone and their mother in China don't want that full update because it's a champ that is heavily tied to their mythology.

They never say no. They said his kit was okay (pre nerf).

Fisher No ChainsDec 18, 201818 votes

>Champion.gg >reliable source

Pick one.

Leagueofgraphs lists him at 51.5%WR in Plat+, which is kinda different than 53/54%.

I’m not even a Wukong player, I just hate when people bring champion.gg stats to prove their arguments.

option paralysisDec 18, 201820 votes

And on opgg he has s 48% win rate, also 0,5% pick rate is jack shit, how the fuck can you talk about such low pick rate. It literally means he gets picked less than once in 100 games. Lucian has a real 54% win rate with a fucking 35% pick rate. If you wanna talk about broken, there you go. But oh no, hes just strong in this meta... But it isnt possible that wukong is just ok when picked 0.5% of the time. If you think hes good, go play one game against jax/camille/irelia/renekton/darius/urgot/fiora/or anyone who builds tabis vs the insane 10 dmg Q.

chipndip1Dec 18, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fisher No Chains,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gjEofpGL,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-12-18T21:25:06.648+0000)

>Champion.gg >reliable source

Pick one.

Leagueofgraphs lists him at 51.5%WR in Plat+, which is kinda different than 53/54%.

I’m not even a Wukong player, I just hate when people bring champion.gg stats to prove their arguments.

I use Lolalytics myself.

Wukong's Diamond stats are like 50%. Plat looks to be about 52%

WoodakoodashoodaDec 18, 201816 votes

Have you considered the possibility that his low pick rate is due to the fact that he is a niche pick at the moment? Meaning, he is picked to counter certain champions and even then he barely enjoys an average win rate.

If Wukong was picked in even 1/20 matches, I'm certain his win rate would drop significantly.

JamareeDec 18, 201810 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chocolate Frost,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gjEofpGL,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-12-18T20:39:42.519+0000)

Have you considered the possibility that his low pick rate is due to the fact that he is a niche pick at the moment? Meaning, he is picked to counter certain champions and even then he barely enjoys an average win rate.

If Wukong was picked in even 1/20 matches, I'm certain his win rate would drop significantly.

If that was the case, why are there champions with just as low pick rates and below average win rates?

TehNACHODec 18, 20186 votes

Those champs tend have no defining niche AND they're weak. There was a period when Volibear straight up fell off of most stats sites because literally nobody played him enough to even generate statistics for him, and this is in part because at the time, Volibear had no niche. Like at all. He's an outdated Juggernaut, his ganks were lukewarm, the item pool didn't suit him well at the time, and yada yada yada. Wukong at least has a very specific niche (at least in Top Lane) of hard countering many ranged and/or squishy top laners due to his stronger than average cheese and snowball potential.

That or they were prework Poppy type champions which is an entirely different discussion.

JamareeDec 18, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Those champs tend have no defining niche AND they're weak. There was a period when Volibear straight up fell off of most stats sites because literally nobody played him enough to even generate statistics for him, and this is in part because at the time, Volibear had no niche. Like at all. He's an outdated Juggernaut, his ganks were lukewarm, the item pool didn't suit him well at the time, and yada yada yada. Wukong at least has a very specific niche (at least in Top Lane) of hard countering many ranged and/or squishy top laners due to his stronger than average cheese and snowball potential.

That or they were prework Poppy type champions which is an entirely different discussion.

So then why does he need a buff/rework? Why does he NEED to be a pick/ban champion if he is already fitting a niche so well that he has an above average win rate at it?

Oakleaf RangerDec 19, 20182 votes

because his niche isn't unique to him. Unless you count having very few match ups (usually maybe only ranged ones) where he can cheese and kill the other laner before he runs out of mana.

Otherwise anything he does someone else does so it much better. Like the only thing possibly unique to him vs others is that he snowballs harder if he gets a lead?

MaddwafflesDec 19, 20185 votes

Imagine, if you will..... Playing a champion with such a bad time that if you pick him first, as a main or OTP, that they other guy looks at it, and can literally play the most mediocre/brain-dead champions they can think of, champions who are considered generally garbage, or just not very good, and are still entirely countered due to the inability to express skill, or overcome the issue with scaling or even decent stats. Imagine playing that champion and knowing that the majority of your opponent's options basically assure a loss, unless your jungle takes pity on you and ganks frequently AND your brain-dead team manages to stay more or less even with the other team. Basically imagine playing a champion with so few viable match-ups that you can basically count them on one hand. That's what Wukong is like. That's barely even a niche, that's a pigeonhole. If the niche basically assures the champion is picked less frequently in games than there are champions to be had (basically he's not even picked once per 134 games, aka the number of champs in league, which you would think would be the optimal number of times you should see every champ in a balanced game), then it's a problem. Especially given that the things players are asking get fixed are literally requests to not have buttons that are almost just as well-served being ripped out of the keyboard.

TehNACHODec 19, 20182 votes

First of all, you need to realize that a rework is not a strict buff. You're not going into this conversation in an intellectually honest way if you throw the word rework with buff like you did.

Second of all, maybe because Wukong mains don't want to be so hyper-specialized that they can never play the game except once every time the stars align? Listen, I'm a proponent for specialization in this game; as a once S4 Jungler I hate generalists with a passion, but just because a champion has one niche that they're good in doesn't mean they don't deserve a look at if that one niche is the only area they're really good in.

Finally, a lot of complaints towards Wukong aren't even power related. His Passive is just straight up unsatisfactory since it's invisible stats, and not even strong. And, with the release of Neeko, Wukong feels especially shafted since there's an obvious void of design space that we know is possible for his Decoy, but Wukong (and LeBlanc, and kinda Shaco) isn't enjoying.

ResterDec 18, 20189 votes

I dont think Wukong himself really needs a buff, but he could certainly do with a new passive.

Noor SakataDec 18, 20188 votes

They won't reply , busy complaining about how broken mages items are

Fire BlaustoiseDec 19, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Noor Sakata,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gjEofpGL,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-12-18T20:50:00.072+0000)

They won't reply

nice joke.

BrightWîngsDec 18, 20188 votes

bro look at his playrate only people playing him are pretty much one tricks

AlmightyDec 18, 20187 votes

But isn't that what every one trick wants for their main champion?

"My champion does not go God mode and doesn't one-shot everything after i bought boots. Therefore, they are insanely weak and Riot is horrible and they hate my champion."

In all honesty, Wukong needs to either be shifted entirely into the Assassin or the Fighter class. Not be some in-between hybrid. No amount of number changes will fix his outdated one dimensional kit.

http://www.auplod.com/u/dpoula9d885.png

Fire BlaustoiseDec 19, 20183 votes

{quoted}

But isn't that what every one trick wants for their main champion?

No, unlike the op, they dont give a s*** about wr.

In all honesty, Wukong needs to either be shifted entirely into the Assassin or the Fighter class. Not be some in-between hybrid. No amount of number changes will fix his outdated one dimensional kit.

Everyone agree but riot

http://www.auplod.com/u/dpoula9d885.png

[sg-lux-2] [sg-miss-fortune]

Blue Moon WolfDec 18, 20185 votes

No one EVER says he needs a buff... he needs updated, he needs a passive that isn't crap. He doesn't need a buff. Helpful reminder: #Rework/Update =/= Buff

Sewer SideDec 18, 20185 votes

[{quoted}](name=Blue Moon Wolf,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gjEofpGL,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2018-12-18T23:05:10.670+0000)

No one EVER says he needs a buff... he needs updated, he needs a passive that isn't crap. He doesn't need a buff. Helpful reminder: #Rework/Update =/= Buff

Turning his passive from “crap” to something “not crap” is basically a buff though

Fire BlaustoiseDec 19, 20183 votes

You are wrong, he definitly need either a buff either others champions need nerfs.

saltranDec 19, 20182 votes

I rather go for the second one.

SwiftKitten88Dec 19, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Blue Moon Wolf,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gjEofpGL,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2018-12-18T23:05:10.670+0000)

No one EVER says he needs a buff... he needs updated, he needs a passive that isn't crap. He doesn't need a buff. Helpful reminder: #Rework/Update =/= Buff

.... if your asking for a rework.. your asking for a buff.. riot is incapable of not drastically buffing every champ they rework....

Blue Moon WolfDec 19, 20181 votes

No your not. If that is what you REALLY think then every champ old champ needs buffed to compensate for every new or reworked champ in the game because, from what YOU are saying, every reworked champ is OP. Fact is some champs are doing just fine kit wise. People have brought up Amumu before and every time I hear "his kit is fine, he just needs new visuals". a rework is just that, updating a champs kit so it's less binary (as Wukongs kit is to a very large degree) and offers more interaction (which his kit very well needs).

SwiftKitten88Dec 19, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Blue Moon Wolf,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gjEofpGL,comment-id=000900020000,timestamp=2018-12-19T03:42:16.763+0000)

No your not. If that is what you REALLY think then every champ old champ needs buffed to compensate for every new or reworked champ in the game because, from what YOU are saying, every reworked champ is OP. Fact is some champs are doing just fine kit wise. People have brought up before and every time I hear "his kit is fine, he just needs new visuals". a rework is just that, updating a champs kit so it's less binary (as Wukongs kit is to a very large degree) and offers more interaction (which his kit very well needs).

I'm not saying that you are asking for a buff... I'm saying that its blatantly obvious that riot is almost always incapable of NOT drastically buffing someone during a rework... and MonkeyKing would be completely broken if he got any sort of buff.

and i don't trust riot to not completely fucking break him if they gave him a rework, and neither should you

or have u ALREADY forgotten Akali Irelia ?

yes MonkeyKing could certainly use a passive update.. I'm not goign to deny that. but this is riot we are talking about.. a champion who is in a perfectly fine, even above average.. and has a very small winrate differential between all elos.. i don't trust riot to not completely break something if they touch him.

When they said " Morgana (was getting a rework" i was absolutely terrified.. ( she is my main champion in my secondary role of support) and the last time they tried to change her passive it was a fucking mess, broke her for half a patch then ruined her passive completely i was SOOO relieved when they said it was going to be a visual update only

Blue Moon WolfDec 19, 20181 votes

okay, fair point, though I don't think every one of them has been a buff. Warwick I think ended up pretty much the same, if not a little nerfed due to losing the point and click on his Ult, then Swain is... honestly a bit of a toss up I think. Depends on who you talk to though I kind of feel like he his old kit was a bit stronger if not for his E and W, then for his Ult being a toggle instead of a timed transformation.

Irelia as well, even though she is pretty strong right now, I do feel people forget how strong she used to be and how she could punish enemies for doing damage to her. They nerfed her down but I remember that it was nearly impossible to get any ground on her back then as she could just stun you when her health was a bit lower then yours and get a serious advantage in that time frame.

MaddwafflesDec 19, 20185 votes

What a high win rate on low playrate means is that they players who are PLAYING him are making it work, not the game. Unlike champs like Lucian who get picked very frequently, and also win with a roughly 54% winrate. And the issue is regardless of whether Wukong is good or not, players don't like playing brainless champs who are so binary that it's win with no effort, or lose with tons of effort.

Also 0.56 pickrate means that he's being played roughly once for every 200 games of league, which is less than each champ getting picked once per number of games that match the number of champs there are. It means he's getting picked so infrequently that he's likely ONLY being played by his mains, who have long been known for making Wukong work despite an outdated and lackluster kit, or being picked by rogue players for very situational and infrequent match-ups that Wukong works as a counter for.

hoganftwDec 19, 20185 votes

His pickrate should be the biggest giveaway about what's going on with Wukong. The people who play him know how to work with him.

AirKingNeoDec 19, 20184 votes

Champion.gg isn't a reliable site. Otherwise, your chart says Kennen support is the most busted shit.

https://www.op.gg/champion/monkeyking/statistics/top https://www.op.gg/champion/monkeyking/statistics/jungle

Sub 2% winrates in both roles, not even 52%+ winrate in either role.

taleofsonataDec 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Champion.gg isn't a reliable site. Otherwise, your chart says Kennen support is the most busted shit.

https://www.op.gg/champion/monkeyking/statistics/top https://www.op.gg/champion/monkeyking/statistics/jungle

Sub 2% winrates in both roles, not even 52%+ winrate in either role.

There is over 1million players playing this game, a 0.56% playrate is about 5600 players. If you were to put all those players in 1 room you'll notice thats alot of players playing the champion.

Jerry SeinfeIdDec 19, 20183 votes

And if you put everyone playing Lucian in the room next to it leaves you with a room with 300K+ people in it.

You'll notice that 5600 people isn't shit in comparison.

Your logic is shit.

saltranDec 18, 20183 votes

I'm far from a Wukong player but I trust more Lolalytics that has him on 52% and not 53.7% winrate.

He's not as strong as you claim but neither is as weak as they wish.

Fire BlaustoiseDec 19, 20185 votes

i wish he wasnt so trash.

The CuratorDec 18, 20183 votes

Wukong needs the Lissandra treatment, a new passive and practically nothing else. Let him ride a Flying Nimbus so he can freely move over terrain after 20s out of combat or something.

Fire BlaustoiseDec 19, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Curator,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gjEofpGL,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2018-12-18T23:27:37.617+0000)

Wukong needs the Lissandra treatment, a new passive and practically nothing else.

His whole kit need work. Even before the nerf, the champ didnt exist in high elo cause his kit was binary (easy to counter).

AezanthyaDec 19, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Curator,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gjEofpGL,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2018-12-18T23:27:37.617+0000)

Wukong needs the Lissandra treatment, a new passive and practically nothing else. Let him ride a Flying Nimbus so he can freely move over terrain after 20s out of combat or something.

So you want to make him broken lol.

BoltSparksGamingDec 19, 20183 votes

His laning phase and kit really needs to be updated. If he can't delete with his E-AA-Q-(elec)-R combo, then he's pretty much dead.

AS I LAY FEEDINGDec 19, 20182 votes

Wukong is the next garen

TotalJerkDec 19, 20182 votes

He needs a rework. His strength as a champion is almost exclusively dictated by the meta. Whenever he is out of the meta any buff threatens to make him broken when the meta shifts, and when he is meta nerfs threaten to do the opposite.