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How come we've got this far into the season without...

ChickenWrap··1 votes·328 views

How come we've got this far into the season without fixing the raptor sight to only display wards? Stealth champions are at a ridiculous disadvantage when it comes to this particular buff because if an enemy with the buff walks past a ward (sometimes placed down for vision while running away), they gain true sight. Not just ward sight, but complete true sight, which allows them to see all forms of stealth on wards as well as champions.

This happens a whole lot more often than you would think, too. At least once or twice a game which leads to most likely guaranteed kills for the player with the buff.

That just seems like extremely lazy coding not wanting to make a special ward sight for the buff and chalking it up to "unintentional counterplay" or something similar and saying it's good enough.

It's not good enough. This form of interaction is (hopefully) unintentionally toxic toward champions who utilize stealth in both their engages and retreats. This should have never happened and it should be fixed.

What are your thoughts on this issue?

12 Comments

MLDzXnRRR1 votes

Stealth champions are in need of reworks - Rengar is getting one soon, Eve and Shaco are getting relaunches like Sion the next year (hopefully), Twitch is intentionally kept weak, because how hard he scales with his ult into the lategame. There is a reason why they don't make new stealth champions.

ChickenWrap1 votes

{quoted}

Stealth champions are in need of reworks - Rengar is getting one soon, Eve and Shaco are getting relaunches like Sion the next year (hopefully), Twitch is intentionally kept weak, because how hard he scales with his ult into the lategame. There is a reason why they don't make new stealth champions.

Did you know that Twitch is actually one of the go-to ADCs for boosters because of how powerful he is in solo queue?

When Shaco gets changed in the assassin update, he's still going to keep his Q and his R. They can't touch those spells whatsoever. You know that.

MLDzXnRRR1 votes

{quoted}

Did you know that Twitch is actually one of the go-to ADCs for boosters because of how powerful he is in solo queue?

When Shaco gets changed in the assassin update, he's still going to keep his Q and his R. They can't touch those spells whatsoever. You know that.

Twitch is probably good for boosters, because you can run around the map for kills midgame, while being 1v5 material later. His laning is crap. Shaco... they said they won't change him much in the assasins update, because he needs full VU, lore and gameplay update. They also are trying to code better AI for the pets, so we will have to wait before some major Shaco changes.

ChickenWrap1 votes

{quoted}

Twitch is probably good for boosters, because you can run around the map for kills midgame, while being 1v5 material later. His laning is crap.

Not true

Shaco... they said they won't change him much in the assasins update, because he needs full VU, lore and gameplay update.

They said that back in 2012 too.

They also are trying to code better AI for the pets, so we will have to wait before some major Shaco changes.

Give clone Tibbers AI. No reason not to.

Oleandervine1 votes

This true sight effect isn't that big a deal unless you're specially hunting the enemy jungler - which in most cases, isn't something a jungler should be doing, as ganking lanes gives you better pressure. Even if you are hunting the enemy jungler, it's not as if you cannot see the buff on them, and it's not as if you can't just wait until it ends before attacking them. There are so many ways to play around the buff that your scenario is just a thing that occurs when a cosmic alignment happens. The raptor buff is fine as it is.

ChickenWrap1 votes

{quoted}

This true sight effect isn't that big a deal unless you're specially hunting the enemy jungler - which in most cases, isn't something a jungler should be doing, as ganking lanes gives you better pressure. Even if you are hunting the enemy jungler, it's not as if you cannot see the buff on them, and it's not as if you can't just wait until it ends before attacking them. There are so many ways to play around the buff that your scenario is just a thing that occurs when a cosmic alignment happens. The raptor buff is fine as it is.

It is a big deal. I am a Shaco main and I have been accidentally caught by the true sight given by chicken camp at least once to five times per game for literally no reason at all. Especially if they come for a countergank and walk past a ward? Suddenly I can't use my Q anymore to escape or get to anyone because they'll see me. If they're chasing you, you can't get away because, like before, they chase you and you can't use your only means of putting distance between the two of you while they close the gap with ease.

There are absolutely zero ways to play around someone running at a stealth champion with raptor sight or chasing them and having it go off or accidentally walking near them during a gank. There isn't some sacred cosmic alignment, it happens every single game when it shouldn't exist in the first place. There is absolutely no excuse for coding this lazy.

Oleandervine2 votes

{quoted}

It is a big deal. I am a Shaco main and I have been accidentally caught by the true sight given by chicken camp at least once to five times per game for literally no reason at all. Especially if they come for a countergank and walk past a ward? Suddenly I can't use my Q anymore to escape or get to anyone because they'll see me. If they're chasing you, you can't get away because, like before, they chase you and you can't use your only means of putting distance between the two of you while they close the gap with ease.

There are absolutely zero ways to play around someone running at a stealth champion with raptor sight or chasing them and having it go off or accidentally walking near them during a gank. There isn't some sacred cosmic alignment, it happens every single game when it shouldn't exist in the first place. There is absolutely no excuse for coding this lazy.

Well, learn to deal with it. The buff is not lazy programming, it's doing what it's intended to do. The Raptor Buff grants you True Sight when you are spotted by a ward because you need True Sight to see stealthed wards so that you may destroy them. Additionally, the Riot developers have stated several times that Stealth remains one of the most difficult to balance mechanics in the game. The True Sight granted from the Raptor buff is a natural counter to Stealth and exists as a check to its otherwise rampant strength. And again, there are ways to play around the Raptor buff if you are a stealth champion. Instead of whining that you keep getting killed, stay away from the enemy jungler when you see him with the buff. Furthermore, WARD. If you can know where they are, you can know where to not be. Vision is remarkably strong, and you can avoid so many problems if you have adequate vision. Ward the rivers, ward the Raptor Camps. These areas will tell you when your opponent is taking the camp, when they are getting the buff, and where you need to be when they have it. Don't just blindly run around and pray that they don't come your way. Take actions to be more cautious and you'll actually avoid death altogether.

ChickenWrap1 votes

{quoted}

Well, learn to deal with it. The buff is not lazy programming, it's doing what it's intended to do. The Raptor Buff grants you True Sight when you are spotted by a ward because you need True Sight to see stealthed wards so that you may destroy them.

Give it ward-only sight. You don't need true sight to destroy wards and you know that. Take for example the existence of sweeper. That isn't true sight and it's very easy to code in.

Additionally, the Riot developers have stated several times that Stealth remains one of the most difficult to balance mechanics in the game. The True Sight granted from the Raptor buff is a natural counter to Stealth and exists as a check to its otherwise rampant strength.

That's OK, not many characters use it and right now there are plenty of ways to counter stealth champions through good interactions rather than "I ran past a ward lol"

And again, there are ways to play around the Raptor buff if you are a stealth champion. Instead of whining that you keep getting killed, stay away from the enemy jungler when you see him with the buff. Furthermore, WARD. If you can know where they are, you can know where to not be. Vision is remarkably strong, and you can avoid so many problems if you have adequate vision. Ward the rivers, ward the Raptor Camps. These areas will tell you when your opponent is taking the camp, when they are getting the buff, and where you need to be when they have it. Don't just blindly run around and pray that they don't come your way. Take actions to be more cautious and you'll actually avoid death altogether.

Explain to me how you play around "He was running around and was seen by a ward and then he killed me because I couldn't use my escape anymore" because you seem to think that I am actively seeking out the enemy jungle when they have the buff when that's not the case at all.

WARDING IS THE CAUSE OF THE PROBLEM. I'll quote myself here since you didn't read it I guess:

"...if an enemy with the buff walks past a ward (sometimes placed down for vision while running away), they gain true sight..."

You're looking at this in a very "I have never played a stealth champion in my life" sort of way and you're ignoring the issues I bring up specifically in regards to the buff. I don't need you to tell me how to play the game. I know how to play the game. It's that very reason that bring me here to discuss this mechanic in particular.

Oleandervine1 votes

{quoted}

Give it ward-only sight. You don't need true sight to destroy wards and you know that. Take for example the existence of sweeper. That isn't true sight and it's very easy to code in.

That's OK, not many characters use it and right now there are plenty of ways to counter stealth champions through good interactions rather than "I ran past a ward lol"

Explain to me how you play around "He was running around and was seen by a ward and then he killed me because I couldn't use my escape anymore" because you seem to think that I am actively seeking out the enemy jungle when they have the buff when that's not the case at all.

WARDING IS THE CAUSE OF THE PROBLEM. I'll quote myself here since you didn't read it I guess:

"...if an enemy with the buff walks past a ward (sometimes placed down for vision while running away), they gain true sight..."

You're looking at this in a very "I have never played a stealth champion in my life" sort of way and you're ignoring the issues I bring up specifically in regards to the buff. I don't need you to tell me how to play the game. I know how to play the game. It's that very reason that bring me here to discuss this mechanic in particular.

You go to the other side of the map you see the jungler on. Vision allows you to know the movements of enemies long before they're on you. Going the opposite direction of them when you know they may have an advantage is how you deal with him. If he's clearing the Raptor Camp and then starts heading top lane, go gank bottom. If he clears the Raptor Camp and then you see him head to the bottom, go gank top. It's really simple.

ChickenWrap1 votes

{quoted}

You go to the other side of the map you see the jungler on. Vision allows you to know the movements of enemies long before they're on you. Going the opposite direction of them when you know they may have an advantage is how you deal with him. If he's clearing the Raptor Camp and then starts heading top lane, go gank bottom. If he clears the Raptor Camp and then you see him head to the bottom, go gank top. It's really simple.

You're not listening at all.

DeathBurst1 votes

Indeed, he's not. That being said, I'm a bit skeptical that this problem is so common as you make it sound. They need to be spotted by a ward from your own team at precisely the right moment, so it's just luck on their side. But on YOUR side, you can see if they have the buff or not, if there is a ward or not in the area, etc. You should be able to play around that.

ChickenWrap1 votes

{quoted}

Indeed, he's not. That being said, I'm a bit skeptical that this problem is so common as you make it sound. They need to be spotted by a ward from your own team at precisely the right moment, so it's just luck on their side. But on YOUR side, you can see if they have the buff or not, if there is a ward or not in the area, etc. You should be able to play around that.

What do you do after you get raptor buff? I look to clear lane wards or gank. In a game with two aggressive jungler abd a lot of wards, the two tend to meet with each other multiple times a game abd that true sight lasts for about ten seconds. That's a long time and longer than anyone's stealth lasts. It's not an edge-case scenario. It happens very often to players who main stealth characters and I understand that it's hard to believe with no real experience with the problem but it's a very real and frequent issue.

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