but the fun factor is gone. There's no such thing as a close game It's a stomp in either direction. ADCs are broken as shit, as if the game already didn't revolve around them. AP mids are suffering aside from a few niche champions who can abuse DFT. Jungle XP is nerfed, so farm junglers always end up behind from what I've seen in my games. (Haven't personally jungled yet)
I'll wait for the eventual refinement tuning before I even try to play.
hopeful454 votesFun fact: OP's last game on SR was 2 days ago. His score on the ''broken ADCs'' was 2-11 on Caitlyn
His whole post revolves around the same ''quality'' vague arguments (AP champs are useless, every game is stomp etc) without any data except anecdotal evidence which arent even true if you check his match history
Pretty much sums up what kind of posts getting upvoted in here
Vellich0r3 votesand he mentioned nerved jungle exp which isn't true since the jungle items actually give you bonus EXP if I remember correctly making it roughly equivalent to season 5 EXP gains.
Count Zubat6 votesI don't understand all those people telling: "omg, games last 10 minutes, adc so broken, stomp!" etc. I play few games and none of those lasted less than 35 minutes, maybe there was one game that ended really quick. Yeah, Yasuo and Zed are again ruling on mid lane, Katarina is slowly becoming FotM in low elo, and towers die to quickly (the only change I hate about preseason, unless I have tp, I feel like I need to ask my jungler to hold my lane when I want to buy something or I will loose turret). Other than that, I didn't notice anything that bad as everybody describes. Maybe I'm lucky?
GrReaper961 votesMe on the other hand have seen yas mid graves jungle almost all the time.
Count Zubat3 votesI just play normal draft and ban them :p
GrReaper961 votesHaha thats actually a great idea perma-ban 
and i can finally play rift back!
I feel stupid not thinking of this thnx :)
TDubH1 votesMeanwhile most recent win-rates : 2/25 adcs in the top 25! :D
Melledoneus2 votesI mean, it's annoying when Caitlyn sets up 6 traps in front of your turret so you can't even freaking walk there...
Ventira11 votesTanks are also useless as well.
Fuckin RIot went absolutely ham this preseason.
Added even more RNG to the game, butchered masteries for mages, buffed the ever living shit out of any champ that scales on ad (except Kha'zix), made tanks not named rammus or garen completely useless, and pretty much said fuck all to anything that isn't yasuo, tryndamere, or adcs.
Critmaster Garen3 votesTanks are also useless as well.
Fuckin RIot went absolutely ham this preseason.
Added even more RNG to the game, butchered masteries for mages, buffed the ever living shit out of any champ that scales on ad (except Kha'zix), made tanks not named rammus or garen completely useless, and pretty much said fuck all to anything that isn't yasuo, tryndamere, or adcs.
garen isnt a tank. and if you ever had the pleasure of playing him against graves on top lane, or face one of the other new even more broken marksmen, then you wouldnt say he does well.
right now games usually end or are decided by the time he starts powerspiking.
Ventira1 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gai9iLTE,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2015-11-14T21:05:36.741+0000)
garen isnt a tank. and if you ever had the pleasure of playing him against graves on top lane, or face one of the other new even more broken marksmen, then you wouldnt say he does well.
right now games usually end or are decided by the time he starts powerspiking.
Maybe if you build him full crit, or something. Last I checked, Garen takes alooong time to bring down after a certain point. Granted with the way shit snowballs out of hand, I can see what you're saying.
EndlessSorcerer4 votesFighters/Bruisers/Juggernauts are typically damage-oriented. If you ignore them, then they will kill your team.
Tanks are typically utility-oriented. If you ignore them, they will set their team up to kill you.
Common examples are Sejuani, Amumu, Nautilus.
Ventira2 votesDurability isn't the only thing that defines a tank.
Fighters/Bruisers/Juggernauts are typically damage-oriented. If you ignore them, then they will kill your team.
Common examples are Garen, Mundo, Darius, Irelia.
Tanks are typically utility-oriented. If you ignore them, they will set their team up to kill you.
Common examples are Sejuani, Amumu, Nautilus.
The latter can't survive long enough or get items fast enough to do shit, and the former have issues killing people because death's dance/phantom dancer+ludicrous sustain. I have felt very, very weak playing as either kind of tank.
OneSmoothDude2 votesGaren is not a tank, as EndlessSorcerer perfectly explained. He is defensively strong, sure, but his main goal is to deal damage.
GrReaper961 votesDoesnt matter all still die to teh king of adcs
chipndip12 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gai9iLTE,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2015-11-14T21:05:36.741+0000)
garen isnt a tank. and if you ever had the pleasure of playing him against graves on top lane, or face one of the other new even more broken marksmen, then you wouldnt say he does well.
right now games usually end or are decided by the time he starts powerspiking.
Garen is a Fighter/Tank...or a juggernaut (whichever). He's basically 4/5 tank. -_-
Critmaster Garen1 votesGaren is a Fighter/Tank...or a juggernaut (whichever). He's basically 4/5 tank. -_-
a tank needs to have hard initiate and a lot of utility or cc to peel for his allies or lock an opponent down.
those are tanks. theyre not just beefy, but can peel and/or lock up multiple targets with cc and set up their team for a fight.
the juggernauts have more in common with melee carries than tanks. theyre basically packages of damage and defense and nothing else. garen has more in common with yasuo than with lets say maokai. the main difference is, he doesnt scale with lifesteal, doesnt have mobility, the utility of windwall, or range yasuo has (q and ult). so he gets more upfront defense instead.
chipndip11 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gai9iLTE,comment-id=0003000000010000,timestamp=2015-11-15T18:45:16.400+0000)
a tank needs to have hard initiate and a lot of utility or cc to peel for his allies or lock an opponent down.
the juggernauts have more in common with melee carries than tanks. theyre basically packages of damage and defense and nothing else. garen has more in common with yasuo than with lets say maokai. the main difference is, he doesnt scale with lifesteal, doesnt have mobility, the utility of windwall, or range yasuo has (q and ult). so he gets more upfront defense instead.
PRIMARILY A FIGHTER, secondarily a tank. However, due to how beefy he is, he's just more tank than other fighters, and he can be built in a match with mostly tank items.
BluePolarizer2 votesand this leaves initiator bruisers like 
in the dust because they need gold for their dual job of initiating (and surviving) and then being a damage threat to the enemy backline, but they get less relative gold. They neither get the free stats of Garens nor do they get the extreme mobility and damage of Yasuo.
Critmaster Garen1 votesand this leaves initiator bruisers like
they get a mix of both. they dont have quite as much defense as garen, or quite as much utility and damage as yasuo.
but they have a lot more defense than yasuo and a lot more mobility and utility than garen. kit wise theyre nowhere near left in the dust. all of these champions have been competitive as opposed to garen who has barely been picked in high level play over the years compared to them.
while all of these champions at one point were on the top of the food chain in competitive play.
BluePolarizer2 votesyou just can't get enough gold on them to matter anymore though. ADCs and crit melees overpower them in lane, they can't jungle fast enough thanks to the first clear being absolutely painful and literally every single one of their items is more expensive, and outweighing the increased ambient gold by at least 300 gold.
I'm just saying that about the pre-season; the pre-season doesn't even feel like the same game as seasons 4/5.
Critmaster Garen1 votesyou just can't get enough gold on them to matter anymore though. ADCs and crit melees overpower them in lane, they can't jungle fast enough thanks to the first clear being absolutely painful and literally every single one of their items is more expensive, and outweighing the increased ambient gold by at least 300 gold.
i dont doubt for a second, that the changes fucked them over. they pretty much fucked everyone except marksmen over and 1 or 2 niche cases of melees that scale with crit and attack speed.
Llanite1 votesMore like 2/5 tank 3/5 DPS.
2 of his abilities are for DPS 1 for mobility 1 for defense. Zero peel or mass CC.
And yet people think he's a tank. /facepalm
chipndip11 votesMore like 2/5 tank 3/5 DPS.
2 of his abilities are for DPS 1 for mobility 1 for defense. Zero peel or mass CC.
And yet people think he's a tank. /facepalm
Cause unless he fed his ass off he's gonna be tanky as all hell. Maoki doesn't have 3 moves for tankiness, yet he's a tank. It's the stats that dictate where your champ goes, not the mo-
Well, yea the move pool, but the stats more so.
youngjake932 votesTanks are also useless as well.
Fuckin RIot went absolutely ham this preseason.
Added even more RNG to the game, butchered masteries for mages, buffed the ever living shit out of any champ that scales on ad (except Kha'zix), made tanks not named rammus or garen completely useless, and pretty much said fuck all to anything that isn't yasuo, tryndamere, or adcs.
-Tanks are useless -Mundo, Amumu and Rammus are among the highest performing champs in the game
Critmaster Garen1 votes-Tanks are useless -Mundo, Amumu and Rammus are among the highest performing champs in the game
mundo is a bruiser. and i forgot that the entire pool of tanks consists of rammus who is highly specialized to deal with adc. thanks for the reminder.
GrReaper961 votes
Life of Chrome1 votesI dunno, I think Kha is in a better place with the new itemization. Early clears are harder, but once you start getting items on him he feels much stronger then last season. The sustain he gets from the new items is immense. You just have to be a bit smarter with engaging.
Alpharite11 votesYeah a chance! A whole 5 days into the first fucking patch!
Randomonium7 votesYeah I don't think I've had one game this preseason that compares to the great games I had in season 5. Every game is a stomp in one direction or the other and I feel like a huge percentage of the champ pool is unviable. What made this game so fun was the back and forth struggle and that's gone now.
Prospector Pete5 votesI agree. I loved playing AP mid laners, but now I feel like playing them puts my team at a disadvantage. Games are pretty much decided by first blood now, and that's even without the minion changes.
JoSeDu Rodríguez5 votesDude, it's only been like 4 days since pre season started and hot fixes are comming. People in season 2 had to survive release Xin, one of the most op things in league history, for a whole patch before they decided to change it. Just give it time man.
DorkunedAuras3 votes5.16 Skarner winrate wise was statistically the most OP thing in league's history (excluding release LB, who got hotfix nerfed after 2 hours due to 100-0ing people at lvl 2, so no stats exist).
Only Play Darius1 votesYou're forgetting release Nasus, with the bug on his ult.
DorkunedAuras1 votesWhat bug? Was it something to do with the AoE damage?
If so, LB was still OP, because at lvl 2, she could kill you whenever she wanted, at range. Nasus is dependent on his Ult CD, having lvl 6, and getting next to you.
Only Play Darius1 votesOn release, they accidentally made his ult scale at 1% per 1 AP. If Nasus built 100AP his ult would do 100% of everyone's max HP in magic damage per second.
Or so I have heard.
Axis the Dragon1 votesIt was capped to a certain amount, so it wasn't an actual 100%, but any higher than that and yeah, he was chunking for 1/3rd health every second, like, he was a legit walking fiddlesticks ult on steroids that also happened to be tanky af. Got hotfixed real quick.
Same as release LB, two shotting people with Q+W, or release Zyra, where each plant in the early game was dealing as much as a midgame powerspike Azir sand soldier
Xin was broken in the sense that he could literally 1v1 anyone in the game early on (and this is including oldschool lifesteal tank WW and dodge runes jax) and get so fed so quickly that he could 1v5 (his ult was like 25% of current health)
Man, the legacies of broken-on-release Champions. Such fun. Honorable mentions to release Vayne, Vlad and beta TF/Ryze.
GrReaper961 votesRemember evelyn buff? She went from reported if used to completely op in just 1 patch
JoSeDu Rodríguez1 votesyeah but you guys get my point, this isn't the worst thing that has happened to the league, the community has just got way more whiny
Axis the Dragon1 votesTrue. We're just giving example to support your point xD
Kaisha1 votesNot true. 1 or 2 op champs can be banned quite easily. So sure all those champs were silly op, for about 1-2 games before the community put them on perma-banned and you never saw them again till the next patch.
Sythriel Draken4 votesGames right now HAVE no late game i agree. champions like Ez, Kog, and all the other late game ADCs(minus vayne cause she's still overpowered) can't get anything done in time to matter when games are ending at the 20-25 minute mark.
The extra permenant health keystone is dumb and no one takes it when they can get a free (soon to be nerfed) 2% damage reduction to everything or 4% true damage life steal (I believe it's true damage)
Yasuo's and tryns just crit for days with 2-3 items, healing every 2 seconds and laughing all the way as they deal a ton of damage..
Jungle is very slow on some of the AP junglers as well as the gold cost associated with runeglave and warrior for not a lot of stat gain.
I could go on, but I'm hoping that they will fix a lot of this.
PerishSoftly1 votesThe Grasp of the Undying doesn't actually steal health from the enemy from what I've tested, it simply causes the next attack to heal you for the % of your maximum life.
Nunya Bezwacks1 votesAd carries were garbage before the changes and had been for years shit in season 2 there were games that didn't even have marksman because there was no need for them. you are just a baby who got stomped. the reason games are so one sided is everyone playing right now are little punks who throws a fit cus they lost lane and turn toxic when you refuse to surrender all the actually good players have stopped there are far less good players who will play it out during the pre-season.
BluePolarizer2 votesI have a plat 1 banner and I quit after 3 days of preseason because it was too stompy.
You gonna call me a bronze baby?
BoilTheOil1 votestbh adcs arent broken only caitlyn is
Teemo or Feedmo2 votesplease tell me this is a joke
BoilTheOil1 votessorry forgot to say jinx too
