"Maokai was reworked for being able to do everything"

Dracocrash·May 13, 2017·37 votes·1,691 views

Ahri rework when?

41 Comments

DunkinNoobsMay 13, 201716 votes

Why does everyone always miss the second part of that statement? "Maokai was reworked for doing everything when he wasn't supposed to."

There's nothing inherently wrong with generalists, but when champions that are designed to be specialists have enough general strength to be picked whenever, we have a problem.

DracocrashMay 13, 201722 votes

And ahri is supposed to do everything?

DunkinNoobsMay 13, 201719 votes

Yes. She doesn't have the tools necessary to excel at any one thing, so she gets general strength. She doesn't have the mobility and burst of true assassins. She doesn't have the AOE, damage, or CC of true mages. Compared to specialists, she is strictly worse at everything they do. Maokai was not. He was among the best defensive tanks in the game while also having serviceable engage, solid duels, and was even a decent diver in his own right.

DracocrashMay 13, 201717 votes

but she does have the tools to excel at many things.

She has mobility in her basic kit and a ton off it on her ultimate. She has 1 shot potential when even with the enemy, (with all of her spells up)

and she has basic to below average levels of poke, true damage, and CC and sustain

That is the issue.

DunkinNoobsMay 13, 201719 votes

I mean, she has to be able to actually do things. A jack of all trades where all their skills suck is just a terrible champion. Being decent at a lot of different things is not a naturally problematic design. If you want to argue that Ahri is too strong atm, then fine. But arguing their her kit itself is problematic really has no basis.

SpecterVonBarenMay 13, 201716 votes

I'm just amazed you two have had this discussion while both having upvotes. It's startling.

DunkinNoobsMay 13, 201710 votes

Same. I've been heavily involved in this community for years and I've literally never seen that happen.

GULAG 4 UMay 14, 20175 votes

When both sides provide arguments worded in a way to avoid downvotes, this isn't completely impossible.

DunkinNoobsMay 14, 20175 votes

Until you try to defend Yasuo. Then all bets are off.

CudyDarkyzMay 14, 20175 votes

See you used wind ninjas name so now this post has less up votes then the others.

AmazoXMay 14, 20171 votes

#lol

RottedApplesMay 13, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Being decent at a lot of different things is not a naturally problematic design.

This is something i can't upvote enough tbh. although i admit i'm taking it out of context but as a concept and something that for me applies to other games besides just league.

5000000000000000May 13, 20173 votes

Isn't 3 dashes and a MS boost a lot of mobility, even compared to a lot of assassins? Fizz has 2 dashes that cover similar distance as Ahri's full mobility, Kha'Zix relies on resets, Rengar (although I guess we could say he's a diver and not an assassin in his current state) can only jump in then leave, etc. There are outliers like Katarina, who is more mobile than other assassins, but I think it's fair to say Ahri's mobility is fairly comparable to Zed or LeBlanc, as well.

Or do you mean that if Ahri uses all her mobility for movement, she loses on a lot of damage, unlike other assassins who have little damage in their dashes? I think I may be misunderstanding you somewhere.

DunkinNoobsMay 13, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Or do you mean that if Ahri uses all her mobility for movement, she loses on a lot of damage, unlike other assassins who have little damage in their dashes? I think I may be misunderstanding you somewhere.

That's part of it, but there are other things to consider as well. She has no dashes without her ulti, which is very unusual for an assassin style champion. By contrast, the only laning assassin to have their only mobility on their ult is Kassadin. Another thing to consider is that while her ult has 3 charges, each charge doesn't move her very far (only 450 range), and there is a significant delay between each dash which gives her windows of vulnerability. Unlike most assassins, she also lacks any sort of invisibility or untargetability mechanics, severely limiting just how much danger she can place herself in when diving. Zed by comparison has a 650 range dash that moves faster than an Ezreal Q, a 625 range targeted gap closer that makes him untargetable for the duration, and a free way out of danger by reactivating his ult again. In terms of diving the backline solo and getting out alive, Zed is enormously superior to Ahri both in getting to the target and killing them once there.

HigeMay 13, 20175 votes

I didnt know ahri was able to tank...

ArakadiaMay 14, 20173 votes

She can't. But let's ignore that right?

AhristocatsMay 13, 20174 votes

renekton rework when

Laxfan52May 13, 20171 votes

But renekton is a early game champ. He falls off

BârdMay 13, 20174 votes

Maokai wasn't reworked for "being able to do everything".

He was reworked because there was never a situation where Maokai was the best pick, nor was there one where he was a horrible pick. He was reworked because his effectiveness was always pretty much the same.

Ahri doesn't have this issue. She is amazing when the enemy is running several immobile, squishy targets for her to assassinate. She is garbage against comps with lots of tanks and CC; she doesn't have any tools to kill tanks, and she is squishy enough to get killed by the time Nautilus is done holding her down.

DracocrashMay 14, 20171 votes

um yeah, maokai is garbage when you run him with a team full of no damage tanks, vs a team of sustained damage adc's.

GiantEnemyShacoMay 13, 20173 votes

Ahri is one of the best champs in the game? Why does she need a rework?

DracocrashMay 13, 201716 votes

She doesn't. That's my point.

Maokai never needed a rework, and neither did ahri.

Neither DID zac BTW.

SpecterVonBarenMay 13, 20177 votes

Zac's Q did, you have to admit it was a rather unsatisfying and generic ability.

DracocrashMay 13, 20174 votes

arguably. But it was weak to accommodate the other strengths in his kit.

Sexy Jack RabbitMay 13, 20175 votes

Just because a skill is weak doesn't mean it has to be unsatisfying and generic.

Taliyah's E is quite weak now to compensate for the DPS and power of her ult, but it's still satisfying.

Dextix LTMay 14, 20171 votes

One ability is not a basis for a rework.

SpecterVonBarenMay 14, 20171 votes

I didn't say it was?

NorthernRedStarMay 13, 20173 votes

If anything, Ahri needs to be toned down a bit. Haters gonna hate, but she's one of the most broken mid laners for a long time now.

RottedApplesMay 13, 20173 votes

i don't fully disagree with people wanting an ahri rework. But i'd rather see riot focus on complete VGU's for the champions that need them and drop everything else rework related because their recent track record is completely ruining champions in these class updates.

ArakadiaMay 14, 20173 votes

Ahri can't take towers, epic monsters, or objectives. She has cool downs where she can't do as much damage unlike someone such as Ashe.

She can't tank. She only has one CC abilit, which is single target and a skill shot.. And she can't Zone enemies

What do you mean she can do everything? There is a lot she can't do.

DracocrashMay 14, 20171 votes

oh and maokai can take towers?

ArakadiaMay 14, 20173 votes

No. He can't, and you were wrong about that too!

Neither of them can do everything. Maokai was just never not a wrong pick. He was always a good choice.

And they didn't like that. Ahri is not ALWAYS good in every team comp against every team comp.

DracocrashMay 14, 20171 votes

Ahri IS always good in every team comp, and that is a fact. She can fit in every team comp.

secondly my title was quoting riot.

And you completely missed the point of this thread.

Maokai dind't need a rework, and neither does ahri.

ArakadiaMay 14, 20173 votes

I don't think Riot ever said Maokai is good at everything...

Ahri is not good in every team comp. That is not a fact.

DuskDaUmbreonMay 14, 20173 votes

Can confirm. Some comps she's just not meant for. No tank, and she's screwed. She needs a frontline that's able to distract the enemy team, or she's gonna be instantly bursted. Maokai needed no such thing, given that he's a tank unto himself.