I think warlords bloodlust is flawed as a mastery.

Dracocrash·Dec 16, 2016·58 votes·3,588 views

It is one of the only masteries that can be activated without the presence of an enemy champion, (or allied champion, in the case of windspeakers blessing), and the non - interactive minion life steal is toxic for lanes.(yes, I know its gimped against minions, but its still usefull)

And considering there is already so much free life steal in bot lane (2% from vampirism, 3% from dorans blade),it just makes it worse.

It either needs to work on champions only (and be buffed accordingly) or outright reworked into a new mastery that maybe can be used by AD and AP champions.

Just my opinion, your thoughts?

55 Comments

JbelsDec 16, 20169 votes

I agree, fuck Yasuo

TotalJerkDec 17, 20161 votes

Thanks to this mastery once Yasuo gets fed he doesn't even have to use any of his outplay potential to mitigate damage. When Yasuo is ahead he can just drain tank everything as long as he has something to auto/Q

Off HiatusDec 16, 20169 votes

It doesn't matter that happens for this mastery and not others. The reason other masteries only work on champions is because they were too strong, stronger than Warlord's Bloodlust. That's like saying Natural Talent is too strong just because Assassin is champions only.

DracocrashDec 16, 20164 votes

my main argument was the fact that, this mastery can create non interactive farm lanes that punishes players for trading. (unless they have the said mastery)

Off HiatusDec 16, 20167 votes

[{quoted}](name=NoganksOnlyFarm ,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JQPOVlBF,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-12-16T15:51:37.599+0000)

my main argument was the fact that, this mastery can create non interactive farm lanes that punishes players for trading. (unless they have the said mastery)

Well you didn't say that so how am I supposed to know?

And it doesn't do that either. What Warlord's Bloodlust does do is offer players choices. It gives them the option to improve their sustain at the cost of combat effectiveness. Sustain that is very poor unless the champion is already close to death from fighting. It doesn't remove the ability to trade or punish players. Contrary to what you said, it punishes the player who DOES take it by weakening their ability to trade. Having the ability to lifesteal from minions isn't a problem either because gaining that 2% lifesteal against minions when the ADC has already lost 50% of their health is not game breaking.

Worse yet, removing it weakens everyone who doesn't work with Fervor as well as others do and effectively buffing both everyone who works well with Fervor and the damage focused, harass or mage supports. Can you imagine what S6 would have been like if you got your way and buffed the likes of Lucian, Ezreal and Zyra even more with these changes?

Not all champions are the same and they prefer different things. You have to allow options for them or we really will get a game with no real champion choice for players.

The Yetii RiderDec 16, 20168 votes

[{quoted}](name=NoganksOnlyFarm ,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JQPOVlBF,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-12-16T15:51:37.599+0000)

my main argument was the fact that, this mastery can create non interactive farm lanes that punishes players for trading. (unless they have the said mastery)

And? Once the laning phase is over Warlords is considerably worse than a mastery that actually improves your team fighting like Fervor or TLD.

Issue is that people don't know how to play against farming champions anymore. They try to go in and force trades and get kills because "Must win lane" and then die against someone who is higher health than them when they're really not that strong.

Play the uninteractive farm lane against them. You'll go slightly behind in CS, hit your power spike just a tad later, but you hit it harder.

Oakleaf RangerDec 16, 20161 votes

Not unless they are playing a hyper carry. Of course you could also be a hyper carry but now we're back to good old farm lane.

Copy MirrorDec 16, 20168 votes

I'm not really seeing the problem. Warlords Bloodlust works like every other lifesteal and it's only seen on fighters and ADCS who can be easily bursted down before they can lifesteal

Envoy of MelodyDec 16, 20165 votes

Personally, I just want one AD keystone, one Hybrid keystone and one AP keystone in the Offense tree. It's annoying that AD is completely favored when it comes to keystones. They have thunderlord, fervor, bloodlust and deathfire for extra damage, but mages only have thunderlord and deathfire.

Chromatic EagleDec 16, 20161 votes

JW, but why not that one where you do burst dmg by 30%?

Project omenDec 16, 20165 votes

In the early game the healing is pitiful. Not really good even if you're low on health. In the mid/late game I think it does exactly what it's supposed to do.

chipndip1Dec 16, 20161 votes

Early game it's for long laning. It keeps you farming on a decent threshold of health if you back it up and slow down for a bit.

Project omenDec 16, 20161 votes

It definitely does not help you stay in the lane if the enemy laner is poking you, because you don't have enough damage to sustain.

chipndip1Dec 17, 20161 votes

You just dial things back and play on the back leg and you'll be fine. You'll get to the point where the enemy will need a small all-in to finish you.

UltîmaDec 16, 20164 votes

The fact that warlords and fervor have the same trigger condition (auto-attacks) means they'll always compete with each other too. One's always going to dominate over the other as long as they're mechanically used in the exact same way.

Except Warlords currently works on minions too, making it have a broader sphere of influence.

PennsDec 16, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Sota and Warlords were the 2 most "broken" keystones imo (and now cotc obviously). 1 of them got removed already... still waiting Kappa

DracocrashDec 16, 20168 votes

to be fair, cotc can be balanced with the right numbers.

PennsDec 16, 201615 votes

Maybe, but I think it should scale off bonus HP so that Riven can fuck off lol

Big LincolnDec 16, 20164 votes

but then we'd just see item 3071 item 3053 on her probably

maybe it should be banned from riven instead :^)

Supreme Senpai69Dec 17, 20163 votes

They want it on Riven though. They want a wide variety of people to take it and not just tanks. Though, I'm not sure how they plan to do that while balancing it at the same time.

ModKnightsKemplarDec 16, 20162 votes

I think you're right. I think it's more interesting, when I play adc, to go with fervor. But I don't, because warlord's is just better every time.

StephenizgodDec 16, 20162 votes

I think it is fine as is, it doesn't offer sustained DPS like Fervor, it doesn't offer instant burst like Thunderlords, it doesn't offer a fatty shield like Courage of the Colossus, it just offers you sustain. It is only uninteractive if you make it that way, you don't want to sit there and farm for 20+ minutes? then roam?

It is just a bit of life steal for champions who have weaker early games or low mobility. I think it may be a bit too much on ADC's but its very helpful on Top laners who get bullied easily. Like Riven jumps on your face and bursts you, you can't really fight her, Grasp is freaking garbage, and the only way to sustain in lane is to use WB on minions.

Plus it works really well with Yorick :D

DracocrashDec 16, 20161 votes

what is a yorick?

AcidTheWarlockDec 16, 20161 votes

This guy?

Aatrox

intraDec 17, 20162 votes

No it's this champion

Yorick

Yorick is viable now, so the Yorick memes are dead. lol

AcidTheWarlockDec 17, 20162 votes

You sure tho?

intraDec 20, 20161 votes

I am dead serious. Like pre-worked Yorick

agbudarDec 16, 20161 votes

^^ this i WB on Nasus then grasp its hilarious reading all chat when they see you heal back up full when they spend all that time poking you and keeping you away from stacks

OrangesilkDec 17, 20161 votes

Oh boy does that sound balanced.

"It allows champions like Vayne, Twitch, Nasus to bypass their main weakness, their early game"

No other mastery allows a champion to turn around their power curve like this. Fervor doesn't suddenly make Xin Zhao relevant in lategame team fights.

agbudarDec 17, 20161 votes

fervor gives 60+ ad at max stack+ max lvl so yea it does keep him relevant in teamfights. if you are referring to all the xin zhao's that go full ad plz thats not how you build xin. after 2 damage items he really should be going tank.

MunchCrunchLunchDec 16, 20162 votes

agreed

RebonackDec 16, 20161 votes

I still think that Warlord's should be a sustain option that doesn't care about whether you're an auto-attacker or a skill user. It's absolutely ass-backwards that the 'sustained damage/in-combat sustain' tree has a sustain capstone for auto-attackers and not casters.

Obviously it would need to be tuned to prevent it from breaking Ryze and Vlad, but it's something that's sorely needed.

AcidTheWarlockDec 16, 20161 votes

And Cassio.

And AP Kog.

And probably Rumble too.

RebonackDec 17, 20161 votes

{quoted}

And Cassio.

And AP Kog.

And probably Rumble too.

AP Kog got dropped into the shitter with that last round of nerfs. Most of his damage is AoE, too, which means reduced heal effectiveness.

Cassio is another to look out for.

AcidTheWarlockDec 17, 20161 votes

True.

It would be cool though.

There's nothing especially good for AP champions besides DFT and the MP in Ferocity anyways, and DFT isn't all that great unless you can keep throwing down the spells.

Rito themselves have said they want champions to be able to take multiple keystones effectively.

It could be a quite cool change.

VelasanDec 16, 20161 votes

You may be right, but I just wanted to point out that Warlords works the way it does because you would get almost no value out of it if the mastery required it to be used on enemy champions only.

Warlords already doesn't do much for Junglers. It is a laning tool, so yes it works on minions to get some mileage out of it.

I believe that originally they were hoping it would get more use from champions like Tryndamere and Olaf.

resumedDec 16, 20161 votes

windspeakers does affect self heals, you just don't get the bonus armor and magic resist from it

Glory ln DeathDec 16, 20161 votes

And self-shields.

ZydronDec 16, 20161 votes

Warlords bloodlust might as well be extra lifesteal it's only difference is that it scales with missing hp

Released ApeDec 16, 20161 votes

"Gain x % lifesteal and x % spellvamp against champions (attacks against minions restores x health (flat)"

macromiteDec 16, 20161 votes

probably should be 15% vs champions with it acting as omni vamp rather than lifesteal, making it a weaker but more consistent cotc for melee characters that deal sustained damage with abilities that do not apply lifesteal.

DorkunedAurasDec 18, 20161 votes

I think 15% is OP, unless it works like omnivamp with the cut to 5% in AoE. Otherwise, a Kennen ult is a full heal.

macromiteDec 18, 20161 votes

Good job rek, I think you understand what I said. throws limb out of bucket of limbs onto ground 15 or so feet away.

then throws bucket

then escapes

Be My BunnyDec 16, 20161 votes

Doesn't that just make it grasp of the undying? But for crits?

Unlucky47Dec 16, 20161 votes

I think that warlords has always been too strong of a mastery. Adcs with no lifesteal items can still gain 100s of health mid combat mid game and it's just ridiculous.

LordGeovanniDec 17, 20161 votes

I didnt even like playing Jax Aatrox fighters in general top anyway. Its like complaints only take into account ranged champions best and worst cases cause fuk melee fighters that arent assassins they only take longer to do their damage and have the risk of being beat before they can do what they want to do even though extended fights are supposed to be their thing even more than adcs.

GelmousDec 17, 20161 votes

why was wardlord nerfed who abused it?

Sire HippingtonDec 17, 20161 votes

I think lifesteal on ranged ADs vs minions is an issue in generall for lane, and with warlords they have easy acces to it. But even without, runes+masteries+doubledorans and you can sustain all day long.

LimrickDec 17, 20161 votes

They removed SotA because it was just boring free stats, but Warlord's gives you up to a full Bloodthirster of the most toxic stat in the entire game.

BlâckLotusDec 17, 20161 votes

warlords bloodlust was introduced for marksmen to be able to lane without a Soraka Nami Sona with them and to give us a meta without these champions being played as often(most support mains dont find them fun tbh).Nowadays,yasuos abuse it,every adc takes it because fervor sucks for most adcs,and it can never be made to fit apcs needs because that doesnt make any sense,there should be a point in poking in lane.