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Thoughts on Viktor?

doubleguac·3/30/2018, 1:32:01 PM·14 votes·3,162 views

After the buffs a couple months back, he was feeling pretty good again. The shield buff was super noticeable, and really supports his most fun playstyle (aggressive positioning and Qing). Riot did a great job with that.

Ever since the AP item changes, though, I've been having quite a bit of trouble in lane. The recent assassin buffs certainly haven't helped.

When you compare the first 3200ish gold that Viktor spends vs. other mids, the difference is just insane. 3200 gold for Ori or Anivia or Veigar gets them:

-item 3003 , which is 20% cdr, around 80 AP right away plus more later, infinite mana and, eventually, a massive shield -item 3285 which gives 20% cdr, 90 AP, plus 100(+.1) free damage every 20 seconds or so.

Meanwhile, Viktor will have: item 3197 , which is probably giving him about 60 AP at this point in the game, plus an aether wisp or a blasting rod.

Viktor's late game is still fantastic, if you can get there. But I just don't understand why his early game needs to be this punishing. His waveclear isn't even an anomaly anymore: there are tons of champions who can wipe out waves easily. And, in terms of scaling, seraphs/RoA combo gives super strong scaling options to all sorts of mids who aren't forced to buy terrible items until 10-15 minutes into the game.

Basically, I get the logic that hard-scaling team fight champs should have weak early games. But is that logic applied across the board? Anivia also scales well and has a lot of team fight presence, and her lane is safe as hell. Ori is a great team fighter; she's a straight up lane bully. Azir scales out of his mind, and also trades super well in the early game. All of these champs have good waveclear, and none of them are forced to spend their first 2250 gold on items that give virtually no stats when you buy them.

I understand that Viktor is a hard champion to buff. But, with the recent super-fun mage item rework, his early hexcores are really feeling more painful than ever. Has anyone else also been struggling with Viktor the last couple weeks? Anyone got any suggestions on a healthy way to give his early game some love without giving him a free ride to late game?

22 Comments

The Anagram King3/30/2018, 4:47:13 PM13 votes

It honestly feels like Viktor isn't really "weak", so much as he is gated.

He's gated by mana, he's gated by gold and he's gated by his augment's scaling mechanisms. And if you play him a lot, you probably know what I"ll say next, already -- it's really hard to get yourself into a genuinely bad matchup.

His shield wins trades, his stun punishes ganks, his E clears waves.

He's vicious. He can bully. He can carry. He can solo-lane.

But he's gated.

  • If you bully, your mana runs dry - you have to supplement your poke with lots of autos.
  • If you try to passively farm, you can easily come out behind - your E doesn't clear until you buy yourself an augment, and - as above - comes with exorbitant mana costs.
  • If you build for late, you're building against common sense - most matches are over by around 30 minutes.

Is it really any wonder Viktor's struggling to find his niche in this meta?

The mage item changes are good. They did a lot for his mid-game, and synergise well with his shield. But as you point out above, he generally has to wait longer to get them.

I mean, Vik's Augment rocks when fully upgraded - there's no doubt about it - but we're talking a scaling item TIED to his abilities with a stat value and cost comparable to an archangel's staff (sans the 20% cdr). This IS an issue.

Vik's augment (or its effects) needs an extra something to it. Stronger stats? Better utility? Something else entirely? He moves slowly, his abilities all have significant delays on their effects and - to top it off - come lategame - there are other champions that will out-scale him despite all the sacrifices he makes to have his mega kit.

He NEEDS something. Not necessarily a huge something, but definitely something.

He's supposed to evolve to fit his circumstance - not struggle early so he can maximise burst potential later. :P

SaltLord4513/30/2018, 4:34:33 PM6 votes

Riot is so hesitant to buff Viktor; they leave him trash tier for over a year and then give him a pretty meh buff while they overbuff Kai'sa after they consider her weak for one patch. Riot even reverted some of his PBE buffs as his ult was supposed to do more damage and his E will have a lower cooldown. Viktor mains have been asking this for ages and that is to either revert the E delay or lower the cost of the Hexcore. If Riot doesn't want to do that then lower the mana cost on E at early levels because that thing eats up mana like a monster. I mean if late game teamfighting champs Orianna Anivia Azir Cassiopeia can have safe/good early games then I see no reason why Viktor has to have a weak early game. Hell, even in late game Viktor still has to get up close to the enemy to unleash his spells while most teamfighting mages can sit at a pretty safe distance and can still impact the teamfight well. -200k mastery points Viktor main

ZackTheWaffleMan3/30/2018, 10:19:25 PM3 votes

item 3048 item 3198 item 3048 item 3222 item 3048 item 3009

Fear the Kayn3/31/2018, 12:08:04 AM2 votes

Bring back the burn effect on his E IMO. I never liked the explosion thing.

SweedishGunner3/31/2018, 12:52:27 AM2 votes

His numbers are okay but the meta doesn't suit him at all. Hexcore's stats are also mediocre until later in the game.

If you were gonna buff anything I'd touch his ult or W and give them effects based on how long the target is exposed to the ability. Plays into his theme of more damage over time.

PickIe Rickkk3/31/2018, 1:46:48 AM2 votes

what's a viktor

BainTheBanned4/3/2018, 8:22:51 PM1 votes

I LOVE Viktor , I've been an ADC main for a long time and I feel like I need to switch roles. I have a "High" elo buddy that continues to tell me to switch roles due to the ADC being very reliant on the support you get (which is autofilled the most). Jhin has been my go-to guy. As i said above, the 2 have the same appeal lol so this is a selfish attempt to get a Viktor buff just cus i like his design.

Biotic4/5/2018, 12:10:41 AM1 votes

-The least they could do in response to the changes to presence of mind is decrease the mana cost of his e

-item 3198 upgrade cost decrease wouldnt hurt much-------i think would make him most relevant to current meta because he would exert more midgame influence

-Manaflow band change doesnt have a great affect since you have to trade celerity or scorch/gathering storm for it

-Increasing his base attack damage would also be a welcome change to compensate for minion change but that may be asking a bit too much

-Also would love to see a change that would compensate for the target aggroViktor now gets from only using the ability part of q(If he could walkthrough minions likeFizz , i would be so happy)

BainTheBanned4/3/2018, 9:12:42 AM1 votes

Viktor has a TERRIBLE win rate so there's defiantly something wrong. No matter what peoples opinions of him are. He needs something to make him relevant again. Jhin has a terrible win rate with a busted item 3124 and people are up in arms about him. No body seems to care about Viktor even tho the 2 have a very similar design. (sound, art, etc etc). Both have a very modern style that makes them appealing to people.

Metallikaiser3/31/2018, 12:00:55 AM1 votes

Umm, I mean like Ryze I believe his solo q experience and winrate will suffer from him being a team fighting control mage that needs cooperation to outshine other midlane options, but since his direct and indirect buffs with the new ap item update having lost chapter be more expensive I dont feel he is really that bad right now, I havent struggled personally and I dont feel he needs much looking into.

Shaydrox3/30/2018, 9:34:41 PM1 votes

I find he's strong as fk, also see him a lot in higher elo games. He isn't all that simple to play though, lots of things you can optimize on him.